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71 posters
Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
Hole- Posts : 11116
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GarryB- Posts : 40520
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Interesting that the old Kashtan system has a mesh box to hold the belt links and empty cannon shells and the newer guns do not...
I remember reading that they were making two different models of Pantsir for the navy... one for upgrades and one for stealthy boats... the difference being one is more stealthy than the other I assume. No other details were given.
Personally I was hoping the stealthy model had vertical launch missiles in a much more stealthy mount where the missiles were blown into the air and horizontal rockets turned it towards the target before the main solid rocket booster fires and accelerates the missile towards the target... much like a TOR missile or a Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos missile...
I remember reading that they were making two different models of Pantsir for the navy... one for upgrades and one for stealthy boats... the difference being one is more stealthy than the other I assume. No other details were given.
Personally I was hoping the stealthy model had vertical launch missiles in a much more stealthy mount where the missiles were blown into the air and horizontal rockets turned it towards the target before the main solid rocket booster fires and accelerates the missile towards the target... much like a TOR missile or a Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos missile...
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Actually is there on the new boat. But wasn't on the display/concept versions.Interesting that the old Kashtan system has a mesh box to hold the belt links and empty cannon shells and the newer guns do not...
I don't think that can work with this guidance system & why bother developing it when they could just mount the naval Tor?more stealthy mount where the missiles were blown into the air and horizontal rockets turned it towards the target before the main solid rocket booster fires
I'd kinda expected a more modern, clean & faceted exterior, I mean its definitely cleaner than Kashtan but it could easily be a lot cleaner.
Edit: also I have a theory about the panel radar on the first 2, its something I've considered previously but resisted because I'd prefer the other thing. (ie new AESA probably part of the Zaslon system)
I think it might be Monolith (or similar) in the mast with just dielectric covers over holes.
Kinda like on 20380 except with significantly inferior coverage due to the closed area in the frontal arc.
If its a new AESA on the first 2, why isn't it on the 3rd which seems to instead have a standard Monolith dome? If the dome isn't a Monolith then this is a missile ship without a good radar for anti-ship missile work.
Last edited by hoom on Sun May 13, 2018 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Isos- Posts : 11599
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Personally I was hoping the stealthy model had vertical launch missiles in a much more stealthy mount where the missiles were blown into the air and horizontal rockets turned it towards the target before the main solid rocket booster fires and accelerates the missile towards the target... much like a TOR missile or a Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos missile...
Bad idea. That's more expensive, takes more place for same number of missiles, minimum engagement range is higher and reaction time because of the direction that needs to be changed is higher.
If you want a more stealthy variant instead of puting the missiles like they are, make a box on the luncher around them with stealth materials. I've read even wood is very absorbant against radar signals. That's way much cheaper and reduce the rcs the same way as VLS because you will still have guns that will be on the turret and that are not stealth. So no need to make the missiles 100% stealth.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13471
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Uragan moved to start trials
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/107185/
Luq man- Posts : 67
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Location : The Netherlands
Hole- Posts : 11116
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hoom- Posts : 2352
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Upstream to Ladoga indeed.
Edit: more vid
and pics
And a bit of a mystery
Seems things were just tacked on to make it look more complete at launch than it actually is
Edit: more vid
and pics
And a bit of a mystery
Seems things were just tacked on to make it look more complete at launch than it actually is
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
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Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°409
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
GunshipDemocracy Tue May 22, 2018 12:36 am
Pacific Fleet of Russia will receive a series of six small missile ships
Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5217218
So they always buy in six-packs subs and rocket ships alike
The Ministry of Defense plans to sign a contract for the construction of a series of such ships in 2019
MOSCOW, May 21. / TASS /. The Russian Defense Ministry will conclude a contract in 2019 to build a series of six small missile ships for the Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet). This is reported on Monday, the day of the 287th anniversary of the formation of the Pacific Fleet, the press service of the Eastern Military District of the Pacific Fleet.
Pacific border of Russia: naval ships of the fleet
"It is planned that in 2019 the Ministry of Defense will sign a contract for the construction of a series of six small missile ships of the project 22800 for the Pacific Fleet, which are considered one of the best in this class in terms of their seaworthiness, technical parameters and combat capabilities," the report said.
In addition, according to the plans of the military department, the underwater forces of the Pacific Fleet will be equipped with diesel-electric submarines of Project 636.3, which are built at the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg. "Their weapons include sea-based cruise missiles" Caliber. "The state armament program provides for the construction of a series of submarines of this class," the press service of the Pacific Fleet added.
It is noted that the coastal parts have already received the mobile missile systems "Bastion" and "Ball", and the Pacific Fleet marines have adopted new BTR-82A armored vehicles and T-80BB tanks.
The day of the founding of the Pacific Fleet of Russia is considered May 21 (May 10 old style) in 1731, when the decree of Empress Anna Ioannovna formed the port of Okhotsk, which until 1849 remained the only Russian port in the Pacific basin. To protect Siberia, sea trade routes and fisheries, a military flotilla was also established in the Far East with a base in Okhotsk. The day of the Pacific Fleet was established by the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov, on April 15, 1999.
Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5217218
So they always buy in six-packs subs and rocket ships alike
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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- Post n°410
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
miketheterrible Tue May 22, 2018 12:43 am
Well, there are a series of small missile ships in the Pacific fleet already that will need to be replaced.
There are 15 small missile boats part of the pacific fleet, Project 12341 and 12411 that will need to be replaced. Best option is of course Project 22800. But they will need at least another 7 more of these ships to replace all the older missile boats.
There are 15 small missile boats part of the pacific fleet, Project 12341 and 12411 that will need to be replaced. Best option is of course Project 22800. But they will need at least another 7 more of these ships to replace all the older missile boats.
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
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- Post n°411
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
KomissarBojanchev Tue May 22, 2018 4:14 am
Seems things were just tacked on to make it look more complete at launch than it actually is Suspect
This doesn't make sense given that Pella would have nothing to gain from this in terms of PR.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Join date : 2016-05-06
Then why is there a post-launch pic of it with the mast & Pantsir-M removed?
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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- Post n°413
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
miketheterrible Tue May 22, 2018 7:57 am
Dunno what you are getting at, it's not the same ship.
First couple of models (2) get no pantsir system. It's not like they build 1 at a time. Multiple been laid down.
First couple of models (2) get no pantsir system. It's not like they build 1 at a time. Multiple been laid down.
GarryB- Posts : 40520
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They probably wont need to replace all the older boats one for one....
hoom- Posts : 2352
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This is the recently launched ship.
It was launched with Pantsir-M and mast mounted.
It no longer has them only a few days after the launch -> they were temporarily mounted for the launch.
It was launched with Pantsir-M and mast mounted.
It no longer has them only a few days after the launch -> they were temporarily mounted for the launch.
flamming_python- Posts : 9521
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- Post n°416
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
flamming_python Tue May 22, 2018 1:22 pm
miketheterrible wrote:Well, there are a series of small missile ships in the Pacific fleet already that will need to be replaced.
There are 15 small missile boats part of the pacific fleet, Project 12341 and 12411 that will need to be replaced. Best option is of course Project 22800. But they will need at least another 7 more of these ships to replace all the older missile boats.
A Karakurt missile boat will detect an enemy target at a way greater range than a Nanuchka missile boat will, carries 33% more ASMs, and each of those ASMs would have anywhere from 2.5 to 4 times the range of the venerable Malalkhit.
It also has some 33% greater endurance at sea.
So no they really don't need to replace all the old missile boats 1 to 1.
flamming_python- Posts : 9521
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- Post n°417
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
flamming_python Tue May 22, 2018 1:30 pm
hoom wrote:This is the recently launched ship.
It was launched with Pantsir-M and mast mounted.
It no longer has them only a few days after the launch -> they were temporarily mounted for the launch.
If it's going upstream to Ladoga that means it's headed for another fleet.
And so they're going to lower those masts and installations so it can go under all the bridges along the waterways it will be travelling.
For Pete's sake, couldn't you have figured this out for yourself?
hoom- Posts : 2352
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The one going to Ladoga is the first ship & its going there for trials with all its masts 
flamming_python- Posts : 9521
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- Post n°419
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
flamming_python Tue May 22, 2018 2:33 pm
hoom wrote:The one going to Ladoga is the first ship & its going there for trials with all its masts
I'd wait for it to actually begin trials before pacing around over its lack of masts.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Join date : 2016-05-06
Returning to Pella
Presumably later on will be allowed to do it under own power.
Balancer has a few pics at Ladoga but super potato quality, I don't think worth posting.
Presumably later on will be allowed to do it under own power.
Balancer has a few pics at Ladoga but super potato quality, I don't think worth posting.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Join date : 2016-05-06
Has been to & from Ladoga a couple of times, now going out to Baltic (this bridge is downstream from Pella)
hoom- Posts : 2352
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In St Petersburg
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Join date : 2016-05-06
Apparently did de-perming at Kronshtadt, now on its way back up river
Hole- Posts : 11116
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Nice pics. 
hoom- Posts : 2352
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At Pella again
I believe has been up to Ladoga and back at least once since the jaunt down to Kronshtadt.
Any thoughts on the idea of a conventional Mineral radar in the mast? (panels just radome material)
I believe has been up to Ladoga and back at least once since the jaunt down to Kronshtadt.
Any thoughts on the idea of a conventional Mineral radar in the mast? (panels just radome material)