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Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

d_taddei2

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Post n°151

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

d_taddei2 Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:18 pm

Eehnie say what u want your list was complete shite and you still failed to acknowledge anything anyone says regardless who says it. You ignore ex servicemen you ignore polar Airlines and Rostec and even ignore any links which I provided (no wiki links might I add) the reason for this is simple u can't accept any link or anyones experience simply because it wasn't posted by you. Regarding categories regardless of categories the fact remains that the TVS 2DTS is replacing the An -2. And still you fail to see that your saying the the TVS 2DTS has failed to each 50 units which is even by your standards moronic as I stated it's not in production yet your comment may have been valid had in been in production for some years hence this backs up that your list and comments are flawed.

Another logic you seem to have is that small aircraft are useless and anything big is great another completely stupid comment which might add your argument has been completely debunked but u failed to notice that. Especially when u ignoredthe point on parachute jumps never use small aircraft not only did u ignore ex servicemens experiences and ignore articles on it that I posted. It's seems you have some sort of mental block on anything that isn't of your view. So going back to your logic small vs large aircraft Russia should just scrap everything and just use An--124 even when only transporting small loads because according to your logic it's more economical and better hmmmmmmm oh ok eehnie. Quite frankly your ignorance is a hindrance to you expanding your knowledge of anything you should really try to listen to ex servicemen and experts views in articles rather than thinking your views on the subject are gospel because I ain't an expert and neither are you. Stop thinking you are you might actually learn something.

Oh polar Airlines have placed an order for 200 aircraft eehnie incase you failed to see that.

cheers

eehnie

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Post n°152

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:31 pm

https://www.favt.ru/public/materials//e/b/8/9/5/eb89549831e6b870264709b135c089a7.pdf
https://www.favt.ru/public/materials//a/4/6/3/b/a463b5ebe5e2ef4c577c261652a38707.pdf

To note that Polar Airlines reached in 2017 in Russia: 0.10% Airliner + 0.16% Air-Cargo market share.

To note that the main aircraft of the Polar Airlines is the Mi-8 helicopter.

GarryB

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Post n°153

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

GarryB Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:49 am

Your list is interesting, but is more a list of all potential aircraft... ignoring what has a chance and what does not.

Instead of taking data from tables, you should be reading up about the planes as well and that would tell you what is a shot in the dark idea with no real chance of becoming a viable alternative, and what was very promising but still likely wont be made, and what is both viable and supported by the people who actually make planes and has actual contracts to be made.

More importantly you need to realise that politics and economics are just as important as performance.

Performance alone would mean the An-70 would already be in full production and in service with the Russian military... they took part in the design and it is pretty much exactly what they wanted... but politics has gotten in the way and now the solution is looking like it is going to be the upgraded Il-476... which was going to be replaced by the An-70.... as the 50 ton payload transport.

Personally I think the Il-476 is a much better aircraft so I don't think it is a bad thing overall, but for the people who were going to earn a living making the aircraft, it might not be such a good thing... but as many of them and those making the engines are Ukrainian and hate Russians, I am not losing sleep over the incompetence of their leadership and the consequences for their country.

Hole

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Post n°154

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Hole Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:40 am

An-70 should replace the An-12. Max. payload is 47 tons.

GarryB

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Post n°155

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

GarryB Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:33 am

Nah, the An-12 is for 20 tons transport... the Il-76 original model was 40 tons payload, so by suggesting the An-70 replaces the An-12 you are suggesting the Il-76 replace the An-12 too when they are too different.

The An-70 would replace the Il-76.

In fact the Il-276 will replace the An-12 and the Il-476 will replace the An-70...

Note the An-70 could move 47 tons, but the Il-476 can shift 60 tons over a much greater distance and much higher speed...

d_taddei2

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Post n°156

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

d_taddei2 Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:44 pm

eehnie wrote:https://www.favt.ru/public/materials//e/b/8/9/5/eb89549831e6b870264709b135c089a7.pdf
https://www.favt.ru/public/materials//a/4/6/3/b/a463b5ebe5e2ef4c577c261652a38707.pdf

To note that Polar Airlines reached in 2017 in Russia: 0.10% Airliner + 0.16% Air-Cargo market share.

To note that the main aircraft of the Polar Airlines is the Mi-8 helicopter.

I've already covered this earlier in a counter debate.
I will cover again in brief
They have around
17-18 An-2
3 An-3
1 L -410
So in that size 21 aircraft and they have around
24-26 mi-8 so a majority by 3-5 aircraft not a massive majority eehnie. And you fail to see that they have placed an order for 200 TVS 2DTS which seems very likely that they are replacing their whole of aircraft to one type of aircraft the TVS 2DTS which makes perfect sense economically rather than running different types of aircraft and streamline maintenance. So it seems they favour the TVS 2DTS for there needs and as I mentioned this type of aircraft is much safer than helicopters and much more comfortable flying experience for customers.

eehnie

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Post n°157

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:41 pm

GarryB wrote:Your list is interesting, but is more a list of all potential aircraft... ignoring what has a chance and what does not.

Instead of taking data from tables, you should be reading up about the planes as well and that would tell you what is a shot in the dark idea with no real chance of becoming a viable alternative, and what was very promising but still likely wont be made, and what is both viable and supported by the people who actually make planes and has actual contracts to be made.

More importantly you need to realise that politics and economics are just as important as performance.

Performance alone would mean the An-70 would already be in full production and in service with the Russian military... they took part in the design and it is pretty much exactly what they wanted... but politics has gotten in the way and now the solution is looking like it is going to be the upgraded Il-476... which was going to be replaced by the An-70.... as the 50 ton payload transport.

Personally I think the Il-476 is a much better aircraft so I don't think it is a bad thing overall, but for the people who were going to earn a living making the aircraft, it might not be such a good thing... but as many of them and those making the engines are Ukrainian and hate Russians, I am not losing sleep over the incompetence of their leadership and the consequences for their country.

No GarryB, no, I ignored not what aircraft has a chance and what not. I just analyzed it:

- Exposing the reality of the Russian Armed forces almost coincident with the successful Russia aircrafts:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t4312p225-russian-transport-aircraft-fleet-vta#212784

- Exposing the recent and current reality of the Russian civil market and in which cathegories is the real demand:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7684p75-utility-auxilliary-aircrafts-in-ruaf#234643

- Exposing the reality of the size cathegories that are failing for the different roles, with references to the different cases that succeed not:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t4312p75-russian-transport-aircraft-fleet-vta#189143

To note that most of these projects had nice plans that have not been becoming real, and to note that many of these projects are of companies included in the United Aricraft Corporation, but it made not them successfull.

- Exposing also the list of projects with good prospect, which development would be most important in order to complete the current new generation of Russian armament and equipment of the first quarter of the XXI century, in adition to the Mi-38, Yak-152 and the rest of successfull projects of the generation:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032-state-armament-program-2018-2027#204557

eehnie wrote:Ka-60/62 (in the Che-22 10th size class with around 2.5 tons payload)
Tu-330 (in the Tu-204/214 5th size class with around 40 tons payload).
Mi-46/AHL (in the An-72/71/74 7th size class with around 15 tons payload).
Il-106/PTS Ermak 80 (in the An-22 3rd size class with around 80 tons payload).
Il-276 (in the An-10/12 6th size class with around 20 tons payload).
PTS Ermak 160 (in the An-124 2nd size class with around 160 tons payload).
Tu-304/Frigate Freejet (in the Il-62 4th size class for double configuration: 1 mid passenger capacity + long range, 2 high passenger capacity + mid range).
New Aircraft (in the Il-76/78 Be-A50 4th size class with around 60 tons payload).
CRAIC CR929 (in the Il-86/80/96 3rd size class for high passenger capacity + long range).
Ka-40 Minoga (in the Ka/27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class with around 5 tons payload).
New Helicopter (in the Mi-26/27 6th size class with around 20 tons payload.
MS-21/Yak-242 (in the Tu-204/214 5th size class for mid passenger capacity + mid range).

- Exposing the list of projects of the successfull categories that would be redundant at this point, but have the option of becoming the basis for future developments of the future generation of Russian armament and equipment of the second quarter of the XXI Century:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2027#213501

eehnie wrote:Tu-334 (airliner aircraft in the Su-SJ-100 6th size class)
Tu-230 (transport aircraft in the An-10/12 6th size class)
Ka-102 (helicopter in the Mi-6/10/22 7th size class
Ka-92 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class
Ka-90 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class
Mi-X1 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class)
Mi-54 (helicopter in the Mi-Ansat 11th size class)
Ka-118 (helicopter in the Ka-226 12th size class)

At this point the alone aircraft in the successfull categories which development I do not consider conceptually oriented to a modern demand would be the Be A-40/42. And as consequence, in my opinion, is the most likely to fail definitely.

The difference between the number of not successfull projects in the size categories marked as successfull and unsuccessfull for every main role is really big.

- And finally exposing the consequences of the weakest politically influenced contracts:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p125-state-armament-program-2018-2027#234248

Nothing of this is casual, and the Il-112 and the TVS 2DTS have strong market trends against that the gouvernment of Russia is not forced to break entering very likely in economic loses, when they have at this point an alternative offer of competent helicopters that are prefered by the markets and by the Russian Armed Forces. The helicopters have their own flaws for combat purposes, but as small airliner or transport auxiliary aircrafts are stronger in overall terms.

Taking into account the new projects with good prospect, the gouvernment of Russia has also the option of placing the production of some new aircrafts and helicopters in the factories that today need better options to produce, without affecting to the natural replacement succession of the models produced in other factories (as example it would be logical to assign to VASO Voronezh the production of he CRAIC CR929 as successor of the Il-86/80/96):
- Beriev Taganrog (Aircrafts): Several options, Tu-330, Il-106/PTS Ermak 80, Il-276, Tu-304/Frigate Freejet.
- UZGA Yekaterinburg (Helicopters): Mi-46/AHL for Russian and other export markets.
- Aviakor Samara (Aircrafts): Several options, Tu-330, Il-106/PTS Ermak 80, Il-276, Tu-304/Frigate Freejet.
And very likely Russia will need to find new factories to produce UAVs (including combat UAVs).

Last edited by eehnie on Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total

d_taddei2

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Post n°158

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

d_taddei2 Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:07 pm

Well its nice to see that you (eehnie) included in your last comment you analysed and your opinion. Because this is exactly what it is your opinion and your analysis. But if you want people to read and take on board your side of things u should also being willing to do the same to theirs including by industry experts and ex servicemen. I would definitely say Rostec have analysed the market and have a better understanding of it than you, I or anyone on this forum.

Also you stated that helicopters are preferred by the markets. Yet ask yourself how many An-2 and other similar aircraft(cessna etc) are in service around the world if as you said that helicopters a preferred then surely there would be no such aircraft in service or continued to be produced and continued to be designed. So I would have to say I think your market analysis is poor. And it's(helicopters) obviously not the preferred choice for polar Airlines who have decided to replace their fleet with 200 TVS 2DTS and not mi-17. And other countries have shown a lot of interest. As stated many times by me and many others helicopters that you used as an example don't have the flight range or flight endurance as the TVS 2DTS and are much more expensive and harder than the TVS 2DTS to operate.

GarryB

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Post n°159

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

GarryB Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:00 am

No GarryB, no, I ignored not what aircraft has a chance and what not. I just analyzed it:

I am guessing English is not your first language.

To analyse something is to examine it.... you haven't analysed the list you just repeated it.

To analyse the list you need to look at the alternative options for the various customers (though in this case being a military thread you should just really be focussing on military aircraft and the needs of the military) and also evaluate them as candidates.

First of all if the list in the light weight aircraft to deliver small groups of paratroopers and allow them to skydive from the aircraft, where currently they are using the An-2, you need to ask why they have not bought more.

Well obviously they had enough for their needs and different alternatives were foreign made or not good enough to fully replace the An-2s currently being used.

You also need to take into account that this situation is not static and now that a new composite replacement for the An-2 is ready and it is pretty much all Russian made except with a foreign engine you can see that the current situation where no Russian replacement is available has changed...

The same can be said for the An-24/26, with Il-112s and Il-114s getting into production shortly and of course by the mid 2025s there is going to be a real problem with too many An-12s needing to be retired, and that problem will be solved with IL-276s being developed now.

The Russian civil market in the past has had the opportunity of buying western aircraft, but with sanctions from the west this is becoming more and more troublesome, while the Russian military market needs all or mostly Russian aircraft, which will be a serious boost to Russian companies... the new purchases by the Russian military will stimulate growth in transport aircraft technology which should also transfer to civil airliner alternatives too.

eehnie

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Post n°160

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:27 pm

Being from where Im, obviously English is not my first language, you know it perfectly from before, you need not to guess, but the word analysis is not a problem for me. In Basque language the clasical word is azterket(a) (last "a" being "the"), but also the word analisi(a) is accepted. In Spanish is the word is análisis, and in French the word is analyse. The concept is not rare to me from the languages that I know better, and less being a technical word.

The lists exposed and the conclusions obtained are the postable result of the analysis. The complete lists were obtained collecting data and the explained conclusions were obtained in the process of analyzing. The lists have the purpose of exposing the complete picture in a few words. I copied not them, there is not source that contain all the cases, they are original and you know it. In the case of the less known projects of aircrafts I included links to external sources after selecting between the most complete of them, to allow the readers to see easily which cases are refered, but it means not that these are the alone sources I checked for every aircraft.

What you say, has been done.

In your case instead, there is not evidence of analysis, and you continue still with previous mistakes.

eehnie

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Post n°161

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:05 pm

The delivery of Diamond DA42 trainer, seems cancelled. Very likely the aircraft failed in the military tests, as consequence the aircraft would not be adopted, and the 3 units used for testing, previously reported as delivered, would be out of the Russian Armed Forces.

http://mil.today/2018/23182/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=rss&utm_campaign=miltoday

Source: Russian Air Force Buys 230 Prop-Driven Trainer Airplanes

4 October 2018 17:13 Rubric: Russia, Future

The Russian Defense Ministry is going to procure 230 propeller-driven training airplanes for military pilot cadets, an informed insider from aircraft industry told Mil.Press Today.

"The military agency is about to buy 230 propeller planes for primary training of pilots. It is not specified what exactly planes are in question though. Defense minister Sergey Shoigu has signed the corresponding document", explained the source in the interview to Mil.Press Today.

According to the interviewee, this issue will be clarified after completion of state trials of Yak-152, and the only competitor for the contract will be Austrian plane Diamond DART-550.
Honored pilot of Russia, General Alexander Akhlyustin believes Yak-152 has more chances to win the tender. "It is just the kind of plane (Yak-152 – editor’s remark) that pilots need for basic training. Without extra frills, the main thing is that cadets develop tactile perception of airplane control, can rapidly make decisions as of speed, altitude and flight course", he said.
In May 2018, press service of Ural Works of Civil Aviation (UWCA) told Mil.Press Today that the company would not deliver Diamond DA42Т airplanes to the Russian Airspace Force.

For reference

The primary trainer airplane Yak-152 performed the maiden flight on September 29, 2016. In spring 2018 it was reported about localization of the aircraft engine. Production of the German powerplant RED-A03T was delegated to a company named Russo-Balt. Earlier, Mil.Press Today reported that Yak-152 was tested in critical flight conditions.

After training course on Yak-152, pilots will continue practice on Yak-130. Thanks to similar avionics, cockpit ergonomics and indication, the perspective airplane integrates into the two-stage pilot training system, following with the more sophisticated operational trainer Yak-130.

Turboprop airplanes Diamond DART-550 are designed by Austrian Diamond Aircraft Industries for basic training in flight schools. The key difference of DART-550 from the previously built two flight prototypes DART-450 is the turboprop engine General Electric GE H75-100. Max takeoff weight of DART-550 is 2,400 kg, max speed near ground is 460 kph, max endurance is 8 hours.

This new also likely means that the MiG-AT has been also ruled out as basic trainer.

To note the reference to the training system in 2 stages: basic and advanced.

marcellogo

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Post n°162

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

marcellogo Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:38 am

eehnie wrote:The delivery of Diamond DA42 trainer, seems cancelled. Very likely the aircraft failed in the military tests, as consequence the aircraft would not be adopted, and the 3 units used for testing, previously reported as delivered, would be out of the Russian Armed Forces.

http://mil.today/2018/23182/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=rss&utm_campaign=miltoday

Source: Russian Air Force Buys 230 Prop-Driven Trainer Airplanes

4 October 2018 17:13 Rubric: Russia, Future

The Russian Defense Ministry is going to procure 230 propeller-driven training airplanes for military pilot cadets, an informed insider from aircraft industry told Mil.Press Today.

"The military agency is about to buy 230 propeller planes for primary training of pilots. It is not specified what exactly planes are in question though. Defense minister Sergey Shoigu has signed the corresponding document", explained the source in the interview to Mil.Press Today.

According to the interviewee, this issue will be clarified after completion of state trials of Yak-152, and the only competitor for the contract will be Austrian plane Diamond DART-550.
Honored pilot of Russia, General Alexander Akhlyustin believes Yak-152 has more chances to win the tender. "It is just the kind of plane (Yak-152 – editor’s remark) that pilots need for basic training. Without extra frills, the main thing is that cadets develop tactile perception of airplane control, can rapidly make decisions as of speed, altitude and flight course", he said.
In May 2018, press service of Ural Works of Civil Aviation (UWCA) told Mil.Press Today that the company would not deliver Diamond DA42Т airplanes to the Russian Airspace Force.

For reference

The primary trainer airplane Yak-152 performed the maiden flight on September 29, 2016. In spring 2018 it was reported about localization of the aircraft engine. Production of the German powerplant RED-A03T was delegated to a company named Russo-Balt. Earlier, Mil.Press Today reported that Yak-152 was tested in critical flight conditions.

After training course on Yak-152, pilots will continue practice on Yak-130. Thanks to similar avionics, cockpit ergonomics and indication, the perspective airplane integrates into the two-stage pilot training system, following with the more sophisticated operational trainer Yak-130.

Turboprop airplanes Diamond DART-550 are designed by Austrian Diamond Aircraft Industries for basic training in flight schools. The key difference of DART-550 from the previously built two flight prototypes DART-450 is the turboprop engine General Electric GE H75-100. Max takeoff weight of DART-550 is 2,400 kg, max speed near ground is 460 kph, max endurance is 8 hours.

This new also likely means that the MiG-AT has been also ruled out as basic trainer.

To note the reference to the training system in 2 stages: basic and advanced.

To tell the truth they are talking bout primary trainer i.e. the very first one plane someone flight on, basic and advanced training are way different ones.

eehnie

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Post n°163

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:18 pm

marcellogo wrote:

eehnie wrote:The delivery of Diamond DA42 trainer, seems cancelled. Very likely the aircraft failed in the military tests, as consequence the aircraft would not be adopted, and the 3 units used for testing, previously reported as delivered, would be out of the Russian Armed Forces.

http://mil.today/2018/23182/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=rss&utm_campaign=miltoday

Source: Russian Air Force Buys 230 Prop-Driven Trainer Airplanes

4 October 2018 17:13 Rubric: Russia, Future

The Russian Defense Ministry is going to procure 230 propeller-driven training airplanes for military pilot cadets, an informed insider from aircraft industry told Mil.Press Today.

"The military agency is about to buy 230 propeller planes for primary training of pilots. It is not specified what exactly planes are in question though. Defense minister Sergey Shoigu has signed the corresponding document", explained the source in the interview to Mil.Press Today.

According to the interviewee, this issue will be clarified after completion of state trials of Yak-152, and the only competitor for the contract will be Austrian plane Diamond DART-550.
Honored pilot of Russia, General Alexander Akhlyustin believes Yak-152 has more chances to win the tender. "It is just the kind of plane (Yak-152 – editor’s remark) that pilots need for basic training. Without extra frills, the main thing is that cadets develop tactile perception of airplane control, can rapidly make decisions as of speed, altitude and flight course", he said.
In May 2018, press service of Ural Works of Civil Aviation (UWCA) told Mil.Press Today that the company would not deliver Diamond DA42Т airplanes to the Russian Airspace Force.

For reference

The primary trainer airplane Yak-152 performed the maiden flight on September 29, 2016. In spring 2018 it was reported about localization of the aircraft engine. Production of the German powerplant RED-A03T was delegated to a company named Russo-Balt. Earlier, Mil.Press Today reported that Yak-152 was tested in critical flight conditions.

After training course on Yak-152, pilots will continue practice on Yak-130. Thanks to similar avionics, cockpit ergonomics and indication, the perspective airplane integrates into the two-stage pilot training system, following with the more sophisticated operational trainer Yak-130.

Turboprop airplanes Diamond DART-550 are designed by Austrian Diamond Aircraft Industries for basic training in flight schools. The key difference of DART-550 from the previously built two flight prototypes DART-450 is the turboprop engine General Electric GE H75-100. Max takeoff weight of DART-550 is 2,400 kg, max speed near ground is 460 kph, max endurance is 8 hours.

This new also likely means that the MiG-AT has been also ruled out as basic trainer.

To note the reference to the training system in 2 stages: basic and advanced.

To tell the truth they are talking bout primary trainer i.e. the very first one plane someone flight on, basic and advanced training are way different ones.

This was the previous reference to the MiG-AT being considered as basic trainer aircraft.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3255479.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fbmpd.livejournal.com%2F3255479.html&edit-text=

Russian Ministry of Defense again shows interest in MiG-AT aircraft

As reported on June 29, 2018 by the TASS agency, the MiG-AT training aircraft, created in the early 1990s, may begin to be supplied again to the Russian Ministry of Defense. This was announced on Friday by the general designer - Sergey Korotkov, vice-president of the United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC).

The second flight prototype of a MiG-AT combat trainer (tail number "83 red") with an AL-55I engine installed in the left-hand nacelle, 2008 (c) Marina Lystseva

"The Defense Ministry is considering the possibility of using this aircraft as a base for basic training. There are no old aircraft, there are aircraft resource indicators," he said.

In turn, the head of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev, clarified in an interview with TASS that the proposed date for resuming production of this aircraft is 2023. “The point is that this aircraft could start entering the aviation units in 2023,” the senator explained, noting that the existing reserve under the MiG-AT program could accelerate its renewal.

MiG-AT is a basic training aircraft of uniform training. It can be used for combat use of unguided weapons for land and sea targets. MiG-AT yielded Yaku-130 in the tender for the selection of the main combat training aircraft of the Russian Air Force, after which in 2010 the work on it was curtailed.

In turn, the agency RIA Novosti literally quotes the following statement by Sergei Korotkov: “The Ministry of Defense today set itself the task of considering the possibility of mass production (MiG-AT). First, the test behavior and commissioning to the customer. For three years everything, i.e. serial products are being produced, we are committed to this. "

Taking into account the current new, that says the alone competitor of the Yak-152 would be the Diamond DART-550, this option for the MiG-AT seems also ruled out.

eehnie

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Post n°164

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

eehnie Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:49 am

Looking at the reserve of conceptually modern auxiliary aircrafts it is possible to see how Russia would be able to afford the total decommission of the An-22, the Mi-6/10/22 and all the conceptually outdated aircrafts:

An-72/71/74 (actually small number of units in the reserve)
An-24/26/30/32 (actually important number of units in the reserve)

L-410 (actually important number of units in the reserve)
An-148/158/178 (actually no reserve)
An-140 (actually no reserve)
An-2/4/6 (actually important number of units in the reserve)
L-39 (actually no reserve).

Mi-6/10/22 (actually reserve exhausted, out of active service and pending total decommission)
An-22 (actually reserve exhausted)

The use of the units of these models is being priorized in order to keep longer the mechanical reserve of other models conceptually more modern, delaying its exhaustion.

The consequence is to accelerate instead the total exhaustion and decommission of the cited models. In the short-term, it means repair works for the return to active service of all the recoverable units. In the mid-term, it means fast decline in the number of units, until the total decommission.

At this point, the Russian Armed Forces finished not still the process of reduction of the fleet of auxiliary aircrafts after the end of the Soviet Union. Russia can absorb the total decommission of all these models, only with a reduction of the reserve fleet of auxiliary aircrafts of the Russian Armed Forces. In the short term, it means lower use of the conceptually modern models, even increasing the number of units in the reserve. In the mid-term, it means repair works for the return to active service of the necessary number of units to absorb the decline in the numbers of the conceptually outdated models and its total decommission by 2025 for the models marked in pink and by 2030 in the models in black.

The rythm of production of new auxiliary aircrafts only will increase in the late 2020s, when more of the new models become available.

franco

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Post n°165

Aircraft Diamond DA42T in Balashov

franco Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:39 pm

Aircraft Diamond DA42T in Balashov

An interesting video (better to watch without sound), demonstrating the new DA42T light training aircraft at the Balashov Aviation Training Center of the Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation Pilot School (KVVAUL) named after the Hero of the Soviet Union AK Serova (Balashov, Saratov region). Airplanes should be used at the Balashov Center KVVAUL for training military transport aviation cadets (after training at the DA42T it is planned to conduct the training phase on the An-26 aircraft).

Recall that the DA42T aircraft is a modification of the light twin-engined four-seater Diamond DA42 NG Twin Star aircraft manufactured by Austrian company Diamond Aircraft Industries GmbH for use as training aircraft for the training of cadets of the military transport aviation of the Russian Aviation. The assembly of the DA42T aircraft for the Ministry of Defense of Russia was organized at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) in Yekaterinburg. DA42 NG aircraft are equipped with Austro Engine AE 300 diesel engines manufactured by Austro Engine, owned by the same Diamond Aircraft.

The question of acquiring the Diamond DA42 NG aircraft by the Ministry of Defense of Russia as a training was raised in 2010-2011. In 2013, UZGA received a contract from the Ministry of Defense for the creation of a specialized training option for the DA42 NG, designated DA42T. Earlier it was reported that the assembly of DA42T at UZGA was supposed to start in 2015, and in 2016 it was planned to achieve their localization level of supposedly 100%. However, in fact, the assembly of these machines for the Ministry of Defense was launched only in 2017, when in December the company passed the first three DA42T aircraft with tail numbers "051", "052" and "053", which were apparently used for the State tests that were planned complete in 2018.

The then Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia, Yuri Borisov, said when visiting UZGA in December 2017 that these three aircraft were the first DA42T, handed over under a contract with the Ministry of Defense for 35 cars. Another 17 aircraft planned to pass in 2018, and 15 - in 2019. The deliveries of the aircraft DA42T in 2018 were not reported anywhere, which, apparently, is connected with the political sensitivity of this issue for the Austrian manufacturer. Apparently, all cars assembled in 2018 and 2019 are intended for delivery to the Balashov Center KVVAUL.

Let us point out that UZGA also participates in the development of manned and unmanned observation platforms on the basis of the DA42 aircraft (such platforms based on the DA42 are widely popular all over the world). In 2016, the FSB of Russia purchased from the UZGA two DA42M NG aircraft with additional equipment for use in the reconnaissance version “for state needs”. Now the Russian Ministry of Defense is also showing interest in such complexes based on DA42 NG. It should be noted that such aircraft are widely used as a kind of replacement of long-range UAVs that are so far inaccessible to many operators, and as such, apparently, the Russian Armed Forces are interested.

George1

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Post n°166

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

George1 Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:12 am

Assembly of aircraft L-410UVP-Е20 and Diamond DA42T at UZGA

Information Agency “Agenda” (Ekaterinburg) published an interesting photo-report about the May 23, 2019 visit to Ekaterinburg JSC Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) by the Plenipotentiary Representative of the President of the Russian Federation in the Ural Federal District Nikolai Tsukanov and Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Magomedsalam Magomedov. The report demonstrates the assembly at UZGA of passenger turboprop aircraft L-410UVP-E20, manufactured at the Czech company Aircraft Industries (Kunovice), as well as light twin-engine aircraft Diamond DA42T, manufactured by Austrian company Diamond Aircraft Industries GmbH.

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 6897202_original

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The agency’s report says that the UZGA general director Vadim Badekh showed the guests a new assembly shop that opened in 2018 and introduced one of the flagships of UZGA to the production - an L-410 aircraft designed for cargo and passenger transportation and special tasks. In particular, it can be operated on unprepared (ground, grass or snow) sites and airfields with a short runway. This aircraft is capable of carrying up to 19 passengers or 1,800 kg of cargo over a distance of up to 1.5 thousand km.

An investment project “Localization of production of regional aviation aircraft L-410” is being implemented at the plant. The expansion of the release of this model is included in the plans of the Ministry of Industry and Trade as one of the factors for the development of local aviation.

Comment bmpd. The actual large-unit screwdriver assembly of the L-410UVP-E20 aircraft from the kits supplied by the Czech company Aircraft Industries (formerly Let, is fully controlled by the Russian Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company JSC) from Kunovice was launched at UZGA in 2018. According to known data, Aircraft Industries delivered four sets of L-410UVP-E20 aircraft to UZGA in 2018. At the presented photographic inspection in the workshop of UZGA one can see eight airplanes, however, apparently, not all of these machines are assembled by UZGA.

The assembly of the DA42T aircraft, which is a modification of the light twin-engined four-seater Diamond DA42 NG Twin Star aircraft manufactured by Austrian company Diamond Aircraft Industries GmbH for use as training aircraft for the training of military transport aviation cadets, was launched at USGS for. Russian Defense Ministries since 2017, when the first three aircraft were handed over under a contract for 55 vehicles.

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Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 D7WGhZFNt5NrG2cGx6JBLl7BbmkuZC3ZLMNVcQ9ZWOujRKx7z-S_UpGs9hQkuQFNbYHjwCc1RRt-pGRIwYXCcnmaoLPETUoXF79haqHK9ug

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https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3661548.html

Rodion_Romanovic

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Post n°167

s-80 utility

Rodion_Romanovic Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:57 pm

I saw on another thread (russian naval aviation) a mention of the S80 (Su-80), a small passenger / transport aircraft from Sukhoi.

I believe only a few of those were built and the main user is the kazakh border force.

Do we have any news about a reuse of this project?

It had the problem of a foreign engine (GE CT7, the same one that should have equipped the Let L-610), but a Russian turboprop engine of this class is being developed (also for the modernised Let L-610).

Does it have any future or it does not make any sense, since it is in the same niche as the Let L-610?

Isos

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Post n°168

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Isos Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:22 pm

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I saw on another thread (russian naval aviation) a mention of the S80 (Su-80), a small passenger / transport aircraft from Sukhoi.

I believe only a few of those were built and the main user is the kazakh border force.

Do we have any news about a reuse of this project?

It had the problem of a foreign engine (GE CT7, the same one that should have equipped the Let L-610), but a Russian turboprop engine of this class is being developed (also for the modernised Let L-610).

Does it have any future or it does not make any sense, since it is in the same niche as the Let L-610?

Didn't know about the let L-610. It's a foreign plane so russians would be stupid to take it instead of a russian plane.

Small plane can replace bigger ones in many cases for much cheaper. But the su-80 is already almost 20 years old and would need a deep modernization if it was bought by the MoD.

Hole

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Post n°169

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Hole Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:47 pm

Let belongs to a russian company.

Rodion_Romanovic

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Post n°170

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Rodion_Romanovic Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:20 pm

Isos wrote:

Didn't know about the let L-610. It's a foreign plane so russians would be stupid to take it instead of a russian plane.

Small plane can replace bigger ones in many cases for much cheaper. But the su-80 is already almost 20 years old and would need a deep modernization if it was bought by the MoD.

Hole wrote:
Let belongs to a russian company.

Yes, Let is fully owned by the Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company.
Furthermore they already moved the Let L-410NG production from Czech republic to Russia, at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant in Ekaterinenburg, where they plan also to build its bigger brother.

They are also working on import substitution for the existing Let L-410. There will be soon a more Russianised version, including also Russian engines (from Klimov) and propellers (from Aerosila). Possibly some of the new russian components (e.g avionics, hydraulics, navigation
systems, etc will be re-used or scaled up for the L-610

Furthermore they will be using the Let L-610 only as starting point for the new aircraft. It will be a deep modernisation of that design and it is possible that will have a new name to reflect its Russian ownership.

Hole

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Post n°171

s-80 utility

Hole Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:37 pm

S-80

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 000146

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Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 000339

Hole

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Post n°172

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Hole Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:16 am

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 An-14010

Recon version?

GarryB

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Post n°173

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

GarryB Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:18 am

Would make sense to make them an exotic type because they likely wont get any more...

In time they can convert them further to Russian bits and bobs and then when they are worn out replace them with a fully Russian type...

Hole

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Post n°174

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Hole Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:15 am

Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF - Page 7 Erizm910

Yes, foto recon.

Rodion_Romanovic

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Post n°175

Re: Utility/Auxilliary aircrafts in RuAF

Rodion_Romanovic Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:22 am

GarryB wrote:Would make sense to make them an exotic type because they likely wont get any more...

In time they can convert them further to Russian bits and bobs and then when they are worn out replace them with a fully Russian type...

Well, unless they believe they could benefit from an aircraft in this niche (e.g. it is bigger than a let 610 but smaller than a il114 and of a il112v).

Many of those were assembled anyway in Russia (Aviakor in Samara) and in case of need of a high wing 50 seater it should not be difficult so replace Ukrainian components (the engines, as an example were a russian design (Klimov) but licence build in Motor sich in the Ukraine under another name).

I am not saying it would be done, just that it could, if needed.

The new twin based on the Let L-610 will be a 30 seaters, while the il-114-300 has a low wing configuration and should have around 64-68 passengers in single class configuration (it could be easily also stretched to have about 74 passengers, if needed).

Anyway the Russian military has about a dozen an140. Even if they don't build new an140, i don't see why they should not continue to use the existing ones. They have anyway all the documentation and are capable to produce spares and maintain them without Ukraine's support.

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Aircraft Diamond DA42T in Balashov

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s-80 utility

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s-80 utility

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