Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

It is quite right that just because someone came up with something first everybody else should live without it. After all someone else would have come across it after a while.

I guess what I do resent about the 'copying' of China is its blatant imitation of aesthetics in addition to (or even more than) function. This has never been the case with the USSR. It is as if they think the product will perform similarly because it looks similar. For consumer products this has served them well by tricking third world consumers into buying cheaper goods that look like bargain purchases since they imitate their (say) Japanese counterparts. But for industrial products and specially military ones that are used for their own purposes, I think this same culture of imitation has seeped in and I don't know who they are trying to trick here. You know what catches my eye everytime I see the a picture of the J-20? Not the plane itself but their air force roundel. Even that looks like the American counterpart. If that is not one pathetic attempt at imitation, I don't know what is.

l believe that most of 'high end' Chinese military tech is still crap and most western media gives them more than the benefit of the doubt when covering their gear. You can contrast this when you look at the kind of coverage Russia gets to its down-to-earth real systems. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would have thought of an elaborate Chinese infiltration of western media.

The problem with military products for China is that there is little or no market feedback to force it into genuine research. For consumer goods, people simply would avoid buying them the second time and they either have to come up with a better trick or improve the actual performance to gain respect over time. But for military hardware they have clung to imitation perhaps out of desperation to quickly counter the US in the game of deterrence. Even developing world countries such as my own nation have repeatedly refused to buy their hardware despite being heavily indebted to them. Apparently they have managed to make even a copy of the AK-74, a symbol of reliability itself, so unreliable.

Russia will develop a super-heavy rocket that can deliver 27 tons of cargo to the orbit of the moon
December 31, 2020

As reported by the state corporation Roscosmos, on December 15, it signed a state contract with the Progress Rocket and Space Center for the development of key elements and technologies for creating a super-heavy class space rocket complex.

The result of this contract should be a technical design of a space rocket complex with a super-heavy booster rocket (LV STK) and an upper stage. At present, the chief designer of the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle at the Progress RCC, Alexander Cherevan, has been appointed to lead the work in this direction.

The specialists of the Progress RCC have reportedly already completed a draft design, within the framework of which the main technical characteristics of the super-heavy have been determined, options for assembling the rocket have been worked out, including at a universal launch complex using a mobile assembly and maintenance complex.

At present, the estimated mass of the payload launched into low-earth orbit is from 125 to 147 tons (depending on the version of the launch vehicle), and the vehicle will be able to deliver up to 27 tons to the lunar orbit. The technical design for a super-heavy space rocket complex, as stated in the contract, should be developed and submitted for consideration to Roscosmos in 2021.

As a reminder, Russia is currently developing the Yenisei and Don super-heavy launch vehicles. For example, in March 2018, Energia received an order from Roscosmos for the creation of a draft design of the super-heavy class Yenisei missile complex in the amount of 1.6 billion rubles. This rocket should be much cheaper than the American Space Launch System (SLS).

https://yandex.ru/turbo/3dnews.ru/s/1029175/v-rossii-razrabotayut-sverhtyagyoluyu-raketu-kotoraya-smoget-dostavit-27-tonn-gruza-na-orbitu-luni?publisher_logo_url=https%3A%2F%2Favatars.mds.yandex.net%2Fget-turbo%2F985264%2F2a000001651b42c8bec23a1fbba11e68c269%2Forig&promo=navbar&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

Buran used the external shape of the US shuttle but was fundamentally different design in that it was a glider that was launched on a rocket. If they wanted they could remove the Buran an replace it with a 120 ton payload... not something the US could do.

And the Tu-95 is not related to the B-29... and the B-17 would never have existed if the ANT-25 didn't fly to the US in the 1930s.

2023 will decide the fate of Roscosmos
28 December 2020

There are moments in time when different threads of fate come together and that "decisive moment" arises.

In the Russian cosmonautics, such an event will take place in 2023 , when the domestic space industry proves its right to leadership, or once again pushes developments into the back box.

So why will 2023 be so important to us?

First of all , this year the flight of a completely new spacecraft "Eagle" is to take place . Roskosmos plans to create two versions of this device. One of them will allow flights to the space station in Earth orbit, and the second, in the lunar version, will open the way to the Moon.

December 15 , 2023 , ship inunmanned version must make its first flight . In 2024 the flight should take place to the ISS station, and in 2025 it will already be manned.

By the way, in 2023 the manned version of the Angara will also make its first flight. At least it should.

However, not all are full of optimism. Cosmonaut Feder Yurchikhin claims that the Oryol spacecraft does not even exist on paper now, and it takes at least 10 years to create such an apparatus from scratch.

Here only time can judge the parties.

The second equally important project, which will start in 2023, will be the long-awaited Soyuz-5 rocket, which will take an intermediate place between the Royal Union and the heavy Proton.

Soyuz-5 is a deep modernization of the Soviet Zenith missile, using severalthe updated RD-171MV engine at the first stage.

Why this rocket is needed is not entirely clear, because instead of it it was possible to produce a carrier of a similar class Angara-A3 , which would further reduce the price of the series, but as they say, Roscosmos knows better and this is another project in our piggy bank of events.

And in 2023 , Roskosmos should start creatingRussian Orbital Station (ROS).

The modules of this station are already partially ready and either await launch as a module "Science", or are being tested as a Transport and Energy Module.

Commissioning the station will allow Russia to implement its own projects without regard to the opinions of "partners". Another question is whether Roskosmos will manage to meet the stated deadlines and whether the same disgrace will be repeated as with the Science module, which has been marinating on Earth for the second decade.

In addition, 2023 is also an important date for the Vostochny cosmodrome. By this timework should be completed on the construction of launch pads of the second stage, for the carrier "Angara".

Why is it important to implement all these projects on time?

It's simple. Competitors are not just treading on Russia's heels, but have already caught up or even surpassed us in many respects. The implementation of the entire stated complex of works will allow our country to preserve one of the leading places of the space Pantheon.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/space_for_you/2023-god-reshit-sudbu-roskosmosa-5fe8ccc5dba1eb4af8f2c075

It's obvious to anyone with more than a single digit number of brain cells that none of this will be happening any time soon

Russian space program is a clownshow led by a certified moron

Each project is always 5 years away, close enough for sheep to fall for it but long enough for everyone to forget the BS they shat out before they come up with new BS for another 5 years away

2023 is now just 2 years away and they want people to think that they will complete 2 versions of PTK-NP, new heavy rocket and a space station?

They still haven't moved past concept art and removing Soviet leftovers from storage, even if they only announced one thing if would be idiotic to actually believe it but three of them each crazier that previous one?

Only thing more hilarious than this would be of they somehow convince that moron Rogozin to get on Tik-Tok, stupidity he would unleash on that would potentially match or even exceed his bullshit promises and conspiracy theories

PD, someone with more than single digit numbers of brain cells can probably read the article which says the Russian space station will be started in 2023... not finished in 2023... but why let facts get in the way of a good moan... right?

Even Cosmonauts can be idiots with concealed agendas...

Indeed... Cosmonauts don't have any crystal ball inside knowledge that allows them to predict the future any better than anyone else...

The author is just a small clown who is looking to sow seeds of discontent.

Indeed... a large part of planning is trying to synchronise lots of different activities so things can happen on time and are not delayed.

A significant feature however is that plans often have to change and need to be flexible, and sometimes have to change radically because the situation dictates it.

That is not a failure of planning... it simply reflects a fact of life... if you grow up wanting to become a policeman and then when you reach the age where you can apply and realise you don't want to spend the rest of your life dealing with thieves and criminals and people who would stab you just for fun, then you can actually change your mind and do something else.

Only an idiot would continue with a plan when things change that made the plan make sense... a sensible person would reevaluate the plan and the decisions that led to the plan being a good idea and if it is no longer a good idea then change the plan.

The purpose of the plan is to achieve certain specific things... if things change and those specific things can no longer be achieved then it makes no sense to stick to the old plan.

Any competent manager will tell you that.

I also never understood any of this.

Roscosmos relies entirely on Russian budget money, not private. Private is just additional revenue.

If some structure fails, they seek to fix and replace it. See the aviation sector. That failed but eventually they have fixed old issues and built new systems.

Roscosmos, if it fails in its endeavours, it will be restructured, new formation made under new management, and it will just continue on looking at other avanues. Only failure is if the organization simply exceeds budgets and doesn't deliver on the end product. The Russian government knows it is a money loss venture but it opens up opportunities such as private business getting access they need to high tech and space. Or Russian military getting what they need too. Roscosmos may be separate from the military wing of Russia but the Rockets made are not.

Plus it creates so many high tech, decent paying jobs, that it is literally too big to fail. Not to mention roscosmos builds nuclear weapons for the military.

Journalists are shit

Kiko wrote:2023 will decide the fate of Roscosmos
28 December 2020

There are moments in time when different threads of fate come together and that "decisive moment" arises.

In the Russian cosmonautics, such an event will take place in 2023 , when the domestic space industry proves its right to leadership, or once again pushes developments into the back box.

So why will 2023 be so important to us?

First of all , this year the flight of a completely new spacecraft "Eagle" is to take place . Roskosmos plans to create two versions of this device. One of them will allow flights to the space station in Earth orbit, and the second, in the lunar version, will open the way to the Moon.

December 15 , 2023 , ship inunmanned version must make its first flight . In 2024 the flight should take place to the ISS station, and in 2025 it will already be manned.

By the way, in 2023 the manned version of the Angara will also make its first flight. At least it should.

However, not all are full of optimism. Cosmonaut Feder Yurchikhin claims that the Oryol spacecraft does not even exist on paper now, and it takes at least 10 years to create such an apparatus from scratch.

Here only time can judge the parties.

The second equally important project, which will start in 2023, will be the long-awaited Soyuz-5 rocket, which will take an intermediate place between the Royal Union and the heavy Proton.

Soyuz-5 is a deep modernization of the Soviet Zenith missile, using severalthe updated RD-171MV engine at the first stage.

Why this rocket is needed is not entirely clear, because instead of it it was possible to produce a carrier of a similar class Angara-A3 , which would further reduce the price of the series, but as they say, Roscosmos knows better and this is another project in our piggy bank of events.

And in 2023 , Roskosmos should start creatingRussian Orbital Station (ROS).

The modules of this station are already partially ready and either await launch as a module "Science", or are being tested as a Transport and Energy Module.

Commissioning the station will allow Russia to implement its own projects without regard to the opinions of "partners". Another question is whether Roskosmos will manage to meet the stated deadlines and whether the same disgrace will be repeated as with the Science module, which has been marinating on Earth for the second decade.

In addition, 2023 is also an important date for the Vostochny cosmodrome. By this timework should be completed on the construction of launch pads of the second stage, for the carrier "Angara".

Why is it important to implement all these projects on time?

It's simple. Competitors are not just treading on Russia's heels, but have already caught up or even surpassed us in many respects. The implementation of the entire stated complex of works will allow our country to preserve one of the leading places of the space Pantheon.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/space_for_you/2023-god-reshit-sudbu-roskosmosa-5fe8ccc5dba1eb4af8f2c075

This article is some BS written by an illiterate idiot.
Roscosmos does not have any dates for the "decisive year". 2021 is already quite "decisive" - unlike 2023, this year Roscosmos must overcome quite specific points: the launch of the MLM "Nauka" to the ISS, the launch of "Luna-25", the implementation of ~30 successful space launches. New Angara launches are also due to happen this year.
Therefore, right now and until the turn of 2030-2035, Roscosmos will have EVERY year a year when very, very much is being decided.
By the way, almost none of these morons who write thoughtful articles about how to properly manage the space industry, for some reason did not notice a small fact: NEM (scientific and energy module) is the first module of the next generation architecture, not created on the basis of the FGB (functional cargo blocks from the Transport Supply Ship come from the seventies).
That is, Roscosmos has actually created a new design of orbital station modules, but with the creation of a transport ship, it should have unsolvable problems? Seriously?

Big_Gazza wrote:A launch pad for the Amur rocket will be built on Vostochny

MOSCOW, January 11. / TASS /. The construction of the launch pad for the Amur-LNG launch vehicle will become part of the third phase of the Vostochny cosmodrome construction. Roscosmos CEO Dmitry Rogozin announced this on Monday on his Facebook page.
.......

I wish that they could build another pad for Angara as a spare instead of this one. There is no weight class the URM-1, 2 combination doesn't cover. They should concentrate on getting a reliable workhorse online instead of further technology experiments and catering for legacy systems. Soyuz has had a good and prosperous run but its remaining life should have been confined to Plesetsk and Baikonur. Angara is not just about a new rocket with a cleaner fuel and efficient engine. It is also a whole new all digital control architecture that has proven to be flawless so far.

Which rocket is the Amur?

I thought they were only going ahead with the Angara, Soyuz 3 and Yenisei.

The-thing-next-door wrote:Which rocket is the Amur?

I thought they were only going ahead with the Angara, Soyuz 3 and Yenisei.

A new one supposedly methane powered and reusable, apparently landing-type. Probably 'Inspired' by Falcon. But things are trending towards reusability and Russia would be right to experiment with it. But they could experiment with landing gear for URM-1. Making a separate rocket for Vostochny is absurd.

Daniel_Admassu wrote:

apparently landing-type. Probably 'Inspired' by Falcon

I sure as hell hope not, that would be a massive waste of time for all of the bureaus involved.

My idea was a completely modular rocket with a detachable glide kit so it could fly back like the cancelled baikal, but that the winged part could be removed and used on new rockets once everything else is no longer safe.

The-thing-next-door wrote:

Daniel_Admassu wrote:

apparently landing-type. Probably 'Inspired' by Falcon

I sure as hell hope not, that would be a massive waste of time for all of the bureaus involved.

My idea was a completely modular rocket with a detachable glide kit so it could fly back like the cancelled baikal, but that the winged part could be removed and used on new rockets once everything else is no longer safe.

That actually sounds like a great idea. Could be interesting on the Angara. I think apart from the turbopumps on the RD-191 everything else should have good longevity, including the propellant tanks. So maybe no need for detachable wings after all. The URM module can be fitted with a new engine while the used one can be refurbished with new turbopumps and other necessary components.

Daniel_Admassu wrote:

That actually sounds like a great idea. Could be interesting on the Angara. I think apart from the turbopumps on the RD-191 everything else should have good longevity, including the propellant tanks.

Are you sure that would be possible? The Angara was never designed with reusability in mind, though if recall the Biakal was supposed to act as a reusable Angara module.

So maybe no need for detachable wings after all. The URM module can be fitted with a new engine while the used one can be refurbished with new turbopumps and other necessary components.

Well the idea with the glider part being detatchable is that it is likely to be the longest lasting component of the booster and would likely outlive the rocket body by a significant margin. You could also put all of your avionics, communication and control equipment in the detatchable glider in order to simplify the overhaul of the booster.

I may ofcourse be wrong about all this, I am no aerospace designer.

The-thing-next-door wrote:
.....
I may ofcourse be wrong about all this, I am no aerospace designer.

Neither am I🤫. Just rooting for reusability here.

Daniel_Admassu wrote:

The-thing-next-door wrote:Which rocket is the Amur?

I thought they were only going ahead with the Angara, Soyuz 3 and Yenisei.

A new one supposedly methane powered and reusable, apparently landing-type. Probably 'Inspired' by Falcon. But things are trending towards reusability and Russia would be right to experiment with it. But they could experiment with landing gear for URM-1. Making a separate rocket for Vostochny is absurd.

The RD-0162 was developed in the Chemical Automation Design Bureau since 2006 (in fact, the decision to develop it was made back in 1997).

Link to an article about methane engines being developed at NPO Energomash, published in the magazine" Aviapanorama " in August 1998.

Probably 'Inspired' by Falcon

Yes, yes, of course. After all, before Elon, no one came up with the idea of creating reusable launch vehicles. //Sarcasm mod off.

Daniel_Admassu wrote:

The-thing-next-door wrote:
.....
I may ofcourse be wrong about all this, I am no aerospace designer.

Neither am I🤫. Just rooting for reusability here.

Why? Reusability itself is not a silver bullet.