Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

lancelot wrote:A dual seater Su-57 could be used to train pilots and as a command aircraft for a drone swarm.
It could also be used for the fighter bomber role.

I think that this and all other possible variants (naval one, S-70 guide, unmanned) would be stalled until the second stage engines would be in serial production.
N sense to make up a entirely new prototype at a design bureau when you would just modify a serial produced one.

Successful tests of the Su-57 fighter in unmanned combat mode have caused serious concern in the United States
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Throughout the entire time, military unmanned aircraft developed primarily for reconnaissance tasks. However, in the last decade, the creation of unmanned drone versions has been a higher priority.

As a rule, attack UAVs were built on the basis of already existing reconnaissance versions. It is worth noting that unmanned attack vehicles have shown themselves quite successfully in recent military conflicts.

It is also no secret to anyone that many countries with a developed military aviation industry are actively working on UAVs, which will have to come close to modern fighters in terms of take-off weight in order to take on board more payload.

Serious concern was expressed by the US military with the increased frequency of tests in unmanned mode of the Russian Su-57 fighter.

Although many Western publications note that there is no official confirmation from Moscow that the Su-57 has a full-fledged unmanned control. Including the fact that Moscow is trying to drag Washington into another arms race.

However, the successful testing of the Su-57 in unmanned modes suggests that Russia is confidently moving in the right direction in creating unmanned fighters.

According to the available information from the military-industrial complex, the newest 5th generation fighter in the course of several tests successfully worked out the entire program of an unmanned combat mode. All tests took place under the constant supervision of the pilot, who was in the cockpit of the flying laboratory at the T-50 base.

The Pentagon is also concerned that the Su-57 will actively work in tandem with the promising Russian heavy attack drone S-70 Hunter, which will also not be deprived of the same stealth technologies and the latest weapons.

This tandem, without exaggeration, can become a very formidable force, from which there is simply no opposition. While the Su-57 will provide support and control from the air, the Hunter will be able to destroy any ground targets, electronic warfare and air defense systems of the enemy with impunity.

This information also caused a stir in the Western press and caused concern. At the same time, journalists point out that this information is not supported by anything and is only rumors received from various sources.

Also, the American publication Popular Mechanics claims that Russian samples of unmanned aerial vehicles are in many ways inferior to foreign competitors. It is also noted that at the same time Moscow is only trying to catch up.

It is also noteworthy that the unmanned concept, which is currently being implemented by the Russian designers of Sukhoi, was previously offered to the Pentagon to be headed by the head of the Space-X company, Elon Musk.

Musk, at the beginning of the project on the 5th generation F-35 aircraft, assumed that in the near future he would have an unmanned competitor, and also suggested that the Pentagon let him work out this option.

But as a result of the fact that the project had already been approved, and referring to the impossibility of allocating additional funding within the framework of the project to develop the latest F-35 fighter, Congress did not support this idea.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/parallel56/uspeshnye-ispytaniia-istrebitelia-su57-v-bespilotnom-boevom-rejime-vyzvali-u-ssha-sereznuiu-ozabochennost-5fdb22fc2e349f2d0ac1629a

There was np SpaceShit company in the middle of the 90´s.

Andrey Yelchaninov: if our partners need a two-seater Su-57, we will make it:

First Deputy Chairman of the Collegium of the Military-Industrial Commission Andrey Yelchaninov in an interview "Interfax"Spoke about the work on current and future projects of the Russian aircraft industry, both civil and military. According to him, a line of new aircraft will be created on the basis of the Il-114-300, including in the interests of the Ministry of Defense, and the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter can get a two-seat version.

https://aviation21.ru/andrej-elchaninov-esli-nashim-partnyoram-nuzhen-dvuxmestnyj-su-57-my-ego-sdelaem/

A dual seater Su-57 could be used to train pilots and as a command aircraft for a drone swarm.
It could also be used for the fighter bomber role.

It has AI to support the pilot already... the computer based simplification of tasks should allow single person operation for air to air as well as air to ground...

It does not make sense for every fighter in the air to be a command aircraft... you need centralisation and coordination and the sharing of information... otherwise eight flights of four fighters each might end up taking on the same target aircraft while the rest of the targets slip through because each leader wants to take the highest priority target... for instance...

The EW systems of the plane should target enemy radar and SAMs and if the appropriate weapons are on board allow engagement without much interaction from the pilot...

You mix them. The ER and R are SARH. The P is passive homing.

Yup, that is what I meant...

With modern track while scan and narrow beams it would be very hard to use the P. But it can still be very good against air defence systems with an upgrade. Better than using the more expensive kh-31.

The illumination beams were always rather narrow so the missiles were only useful against an aircraft illuminating your aircraft or an aircraft in your flight group...

During a conflict in Iraq a US Patriot system lit up some coalition aircraft and it was taken out by a HARM carried by one of the aircraft it was marking... the HARM really only worked because it was used against a battery that was marking the aircraft carrying the missile.

I seem to remember it happened twice... one allied aircraft was shot down by a Patriot system in automatic mode and one allied aircraft protected itself by taking out Patriots radar when it was being engaged automatically by the system.

It was this conflict where they realised that over time there were inaccuracies in the Patriots radar system and over time it got worse and worse to the point where if the system was running for a few days in a row it couldn't hit anything at all...

I think that this and all other possible variants (naval one, S-70 guide, unmanned) would be stalled until the second stage engines would be in serial production.
N sense to make up a entirely new prototype at a design bureau when you would just modify a serial produced one.

A command version will be broadcasting information and commands so it sort of undoes all its stealth features... I would think an Su-30 with Su-35 radar and engines would be better suited to the command role and sit back while stealthier or less stealthy but radar silent aircraft move ahead of them...

Also, the American publication Popular Mechanics claims that Russian samples of unmanned aerial vehicles are in many ways inferior to foreign competitors. It is also noted that at the same time Moscow is only trying to catch up.

So they think Russia is behind... the only US drone to operate with the F-35 I have seen is an unmanned C-130 transport plane that is supposed to sit in the rear with long range cruise missiles and extra fuel so the F-35 can fly forward and use its superior sensors and stealth to secretly find targets for the C130 to attack with long range ground attack weapons, and the F-35 can pop back from the front line area to top up on fuel from the C-130...

These drones are probably better than 200+ million dollar drones based on the F-35 design I would think they would otherwise make... but will C-130 drones cost even more and be vulnerable to long range AAM attack like AWACS and JSTARS and other inflight refuelling aircraft.

Andrey Yelchaninov: if our partners need a two-seater Su-57, we will make it:

Meaning if export customers want to pay for a two seat model they are happy to make them...

During a conflict in Iraq a US Patriot system lit up some coalition aircraft and it was taken out by a HARM carried by one of the aircraft it was marking... the HARM really only worked because it was used against a battery that was marking the aircraft carrying the missile.

I remember seeing a chinese kh-31 targeting an observation radar (one like old p-12 or p-15 radar working in lower frequencies than illumination radars).

Alsi r-77 akready has home on jam which is just a passive homing. So it combines ARH and passive homing making the r-27P useless.

R-77M will be even better with datalink guidance that if perfected could replace ARH and Passive homing.

Man I am more curious as to how long we all got to wait until the F-35 even uses a DIRCM. Remember one of the boys from f-16.net in 2009 stated how the F-35 will be the 1st operational aircraft to be equipped with DIRCM and that has not aged well 101ks-o was criticized along with ols-50 for a bulb shape, they have planned to use something called Thndr which is a DIRCM in which they proposed the same 6 face polygon shape they did with EOTs back in 2012 then presented an image like demonstration in 2015 of the F-35 using bulb like DIRCM. I am still waiting to this day when they will present DIRCM because if that shape looks remotely like what the SU-57 looks like I swear I will raise hell for that kind hypocrisy. But because it seems that the current EOTs is a POS in comparison to the full coverage compared to the radars, infrared and UV solution on the Su-57. We are sadly going to have to wait for quite some time until the advance EOTS is applied assuming they will put a DIRCM by than.

The point is that the different frequency ranges of IR being explored suggests that combinations of long, medium, and short wave IR each have their own advantages and capabilities, and compromising the performance of optical systems for a minor reduction in radar cross section I don't think would be worth it.

A small increase in RCS might mean an enemy could detect them from say 20km further away perhaps, but the original IRST port with optimum design might detect targets at rather much better ranges...

It is such a small detail that in a longer wave like L band the optical port might not even be visible at all anyway.

For a start it could easily be made from materials that don't reflect radar energy... in which case its external shape is irrelevant to stealth...

By the end of 2024, the Russian Armed Forces will receive 22 fifth-generation Su-57 fighters ahead of schedule, said Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

“For aviation equipment, it is planned to deliver ahead of schedule for 94 aircraft and helicopters by the end of 2024. Among them there are 22 Su-57 aircraft, the number of which will be increased to 76 by 2028, ”Shoigu said on Monday at a meeting of the board of the Russian Defense Ministry on Monday.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/202012211441-rQMSo.html

was thinking. how much do you want to bet China will unveil a terribly buggy ws-15 equipped j-20 a month before Russia unveils the product 30 equipped su-57 in 2022?

China bought su-35 for engines. They can show whatever they want, they are far behind any other country in terms of engines.

agreed. its just that I noticed China often revealing stuff right before the Russians and I wonder sometimes if it is to undermine Russia. I know they want to take over Russia's defense industry presence in the far east and mid-east. pisses me off.

TMA1 wrote:agreed. its just that I noticed China often revealing stuff right before the Russians and I wonder sometimes if it is to undermine Russia. I know they want to take over Russia's defense industry presence in the far east and mid-east. pisses me off.

Everything they reveal is just a copy of russian stuff. Most of the things they reveal isn't even bought or used by chinese forces.

They have hundreds of type of missiles, hundreds of tanks and other vehicle types and what not else yet only a fraction of them are really produced.

Then you will never get any real info about their quality or for exemple number of crashes of their homemade fighters.

So yeah they can show whatever they want that won't change facts. In 10 years they will try to buy su-57 too for the engines. I hope Russia doesn't make the mistake to give it to them like they did with su-35.

I seem to remember for a while we were being told that China was ahead of Russia in drone technology... flying all sorts of drones and actually selling some to foreign customers... but then the feedback from the customers suggested these were probably still at the prototype level and needed funding and work to get them up to the level of combat equipment... which is no huge surprise of course...

A lot of stuff we have been seeing at airshows and defence exhibitions from Russia has been projects in need of funding to develop into mature and useful systems.

The conflict in Syria has been enormously valuable in that regard allowing them to test all sorts of things including things that are brand new but also things that have been in service for quite some time... it has been very useful for them which is why I think China should send forces somewhere to test their own equipment and their own doctrine and tactics in a real conflict. They will lose some people, but what they learn will save thousands in a real conflict with a real opponent...

It was delivered to the VKS.