Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

ult wrote:It was delivered to the VKS.

This looks pretty clean and you can tell the surface is a lot more refined, keep them coming

Isos wrote:China bought su-35 for engines. They can show whatever they want, they are far behind any other country in terms of engines.

Calling BS on that. By all accounts the WS-15 seems like an advanced engine. Far behind any other country? Pfftt...

Big_Gazza wrote:

Isos wrote:China bought su-35 for engines. They can show whatever they want, they are far behind any other country in terms of engines.

Calling BS on that.  By all accounts the WS-15 seems like an advanced engine.  Far behind any other country?  Pfftt...

And who is using chinese engines ?

If I remember correctly you are a former engineer. You should know that your very first product can't compete with other products produced by companies that have a long tradition of making it.

It's like russian first civilian plane since their industry was destroyed during USSR fall. The SSJ100. It's just full of foreign stuff and it isn't as good as foreign competitors. Now they need years to make it all russian.

You can't just start a new techno and expect to be among the best. China can show is engine today that won't change the fact its their first engine abd will be wirst than russian/western.

The thing also is that china hides its crashes and real values about tests. Russia/west not really. So at best they will just claim things and prove nothing.

Isos wrote:And who is using chinese engines ?

If I remember correctly you are a former engineer. You should know that your very first product can't compete with other products produced by companies ghat have a long tradition of making it.

It's like russian first civilian plane since their industry was destroyed during USSR fall. The SSJ100. It's just full of foreign stuff and it isn't as good as foreign competitors. Now they need years to make it all russian.

You can't just start a new techno and expect to be amoung the best. China can show is engine today that won't change the fact its their first engine abd will be wirst than russian/western.

The thing also is that china hides its crashes and real values about tests. Russia/west not really. So at best they will just claim things and prove nothing.

Firstly, i'm not a "former" engineer, but actively working and earnestly employed. I hope that wasn't an attempt at a smear?

Secondly, the WS-15 ain't the first engine the Chinese have built, so its hardly a "first product". These people can build a down-scaled manned lunar exploration system and use it deploy lunar landers (CE 3 & 4) and return ground samples (CE 5), so its clear they have the intellectual and engineering savvy to replicate any technologies that other nations have developed. All the Chinese need to develop fully competitive high performance engines is time and money, and they have plenty of both....

CGI of what a future two-seater Su-57 variant (FGFA?) might look like.

ult wrote:It was delivered to the VKS.

Great news!!

Finally, no nose cone modification, everything looks pretty much identical to T50-10 and 11 as expected. I thought the nozzles may be the new ones though, but there is also no change there...

Huge event for Russia and for the VKS, some more troll mouths closed... feels good indeed!

The news at TASS:

The first production Su-57 fighter entered the Southern Military District Aviation Regiment

According to the source, in 2021 the Russian Aerospace Forces will receive four more such aircraft

MOSCOW, December 25. / TASS /. The first serial multifunctional fifth-generation fighter Su-57 entered service with one of the aviation regiments of the Southern Military District. TASS was informed about this on Friday by a source in the military-industrial complex.

"The Aerospace Forces received the first serial Su-57. It entered service with one of the aviation regiments of the Southern Military District," said the agency's source.

According to him, in 2021, the Russian Aerospace Forces will receive four more such aircraft.

>> This matches the deliveries expected as per the table we saw at KnAAZ

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10352497

The first serial Su-57 is used for testing hypersonic weapons

The development is carried out by the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

MOSCOW, December 25. / TASS /. The first production Su-57 fighter will be used at the State Flight Test Center (GLITS) in Akhtubinsk for testing hypersonic aircraft weapons. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS on Friday.

"The first serial Su-57 entered the GLITs at the end of November. It will be used to test the latest aviation hypersonic weapons," the agency's source said.

The development of fundamentally new aircraft weapons is being carried out by the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10354135

pretty awesome Christmas present!

Gorgeous plane, great finish, Sukhoi has done a superb job  

In these pictures we can finally see where radar / ECM is located:

> 1 nose + 2 cheek radars
> 4 emitters at the LEVCONS and wing LE
> 4 emitters at the wing tips
> 1 emitter at the tail sting

So that seems to be a very complete radar + ECM setup

Probably the tip of the tails have antennas for the ESM system

You can also see the logo of the first unit to get it. It will be the State Flight Test Center (GLITS) in Akhtubinsk accirding to twitter people.

User "ancient" @topwar said this, maybe this is the way testing at GLITs will work?

The first (and maybe a few more pieces .. how .. "will go) ALWAYS (meaning any types of airplanes and helicopters) are transferred to GLITS .. for the stage" A "of military tests wink.
Those. from the planes will ... "squeeze .. all the" juices ", to identify" correspondences or non-conformities of the Airplane Flight Manual provisions "... in ALL modes and with all types of ASP. soldier
Maybe the 2nd and 3rd serials are the same ... as the process "goes on", then stage "B" will be carried out by the GLITs themselves or stage "B" will be transferred to Lipetsk) .....
And only then the next cars of the series (if everything is "with an estimate" of about good ") will already be sent to the pulp and paper industry in Lipetsk, for the preparation and development of methods of combat use and amendments and additions to the airplane flight manual for" combat pilots " "changes and additions" result in restrictions .. (temporary or permanent) and sometimes remain valid until ... until a given type of aircraft can be removed from service and decommissioned as a type.

https://en.topwar.ru/178529-pervyj-serijnyj-su-57-postupil-v-ahtubinskij-glic.html

What smooth finish, I see rivet holes everywhere. Russians cannot into stealth.

Scorpius wrote:I would say this: in GLITs, they find out the limits of the combat capabilities of the aircraft and adjust the flight operation manual. The Lipetsk aviation center develops new methods of practical application (tactics, flight control methods, advanced aerobatics) and training of personnel.

Yes, the issue is that the prototypes have already been extensively tested at GLITs, so the plane should be already known, but still it will be apparently evaluated again (that means, the serial production means many changes and technical risks, as we can see for instance from the different components used at the manufacturing) and then it should go to Lipetsk. Units are also needed there for training, the 76 units ordered are enough for 3 regiments + 4 units, these 4 should be the first delivered that will not go to any regular combat unit. It is difficult that not having received the unit last year has not delayed the whole program significantly, but maybe they have found good mitigating measures.

Backman wrote:Su 57 won its contract in 2002. Jet goes into service in 2020. 18 years.

F-35 won its contract in 2001. And they are going into service in 2018/2019. 17 to 18 years.

So I dunno what the big deal is about the su 57 being so "late".

It is way worse than that, in fact: there was no demonstrator for the Su-57, other than Sukhoi being smart and using the Berkut and the Su-35 to reduce technological risks. On the other hand, the X-35 flew in year 2000 (ten years before the T-50-1!!), its construction was signed in 1996 and the preliminary studies of the JAST/JSF program were running from 1993 (of course there were previous studies and programs but we can leave the out of this, since the program took its definitive shaping back then).

So that means that the PAK-FA program took 18 years while the JSF took almost 25, not to talk about cost overruns and the amount of money wasted on already produced planes that will never be combat ready, and those are not few precisely. Plus the result of JSF is an expensive, retrograde airframe with a profoundly flawed design philosophy that will need constant investment to avoid it being surpassed by all rivals.

In terms of program management, US fanboys mocking PAK-FA and portraying F-35 as the example of how things are done should shut the f*ck up and learn at least the very basics about project management, they are simply embarrassing...

Comparing the two programs is not such easy.
Let's say they are very different as a result of both the different procedures they use , maximized by the fact that the one ofF-35 was unconventional also to standard western one.
They developed three greatly different versions in the same time and rushed on to introduce them in service even if not completely ready (to use an euphemism).

In case of Su-57 a.t.c. they are actually even exacerbating usual russian insistence into introducing in (wow, 4 words beginning with in, a record, I think) service only full developed models.

It's like russian first civilian plane since their industry was destroyed during USSR fall. The SSJ100. It's just full of foreign stuff and it isn't as good as foreign competitors. Now they need years to make it all russian.

Actually the SSJ100 was deliberately developed with western systems and equipment and engines to make it appeal to western customers and markets...

But it was all a waste of time and effort because we all know how intolerant the west is regarding anything to do with Russia...

GarryB wrote:

It's like russian first civilian plane since their industry was destroyed during USSR fall. The SSJ100. It's just full of foreign stuff and it isn't as good as foreign competitors. Now they need years to make it all russian.

Actually the SSJ100 was deliberately developed with western systems and equipment and engines to make it appeal to western customers and markets...

But it was all a waste of time and effort because we all know how intolerant the west is regarding anything to do with Russia...  

Years after the russian version is still not ready. What I'm saying is that you can't just wake up abd say "let's make a plane" when you don't have the industry for and expect it to be the best out there.

Chinese have never made an engine and some here still expect them to be the best on the market.

BTW some western companies bought the ssj-100 and it isn't doing as expected.

PhSt wrote:

Wow that journo was surprisingly competent reporting on the Su-57...

Marcellogo wrote:Comparing the two programs is not such easy.
Let's say they are very different as a result of both the different procedures they use , maximized by the fact that the one ofF-35 was unconventional also to standard western one.
They developed three greatly different versions in the same time and rushed on to introduce them in service even if not completely ready (to use an euphemism).

In case of Su-57 a.t.c. they are actually even exacerbating usual russian insistence into introducing in (wow, 4 words beginning with in, a record, I think) service only full developed models.

I am not trying to understate the complexity of the JSF program, but when measures are employed that instead of risk mitigation create "risk augmentation" and they are piled one on top of each other, well, I need no further proof of what is going on. While Russia created all sorts of alternatives for the VKS in case the PAK-FA program and its individual elements failed, the US leadership and program management did exactly the opposite and left the services completely exposed to any program risk. This is is malfeasance and should end up with people in jail, not be lauded as an example of how things are to be done.

SSJ-100 wasn't Russia's first foray into civil aircraft.  Tu-204 was before it and also had offered an all russian digital avionics and used PS-90A engines later in the years.  I would have just upgraded the Tu-204 and it would probably be in a lot of numbers by now too.

SSJ-100 is the first for Sukhoi though.

miketheterrible wrote:SSJ-100 wasn't Russia's first foray into civil aircraft.  Tu-204 was before it and also had offered an all russian digital avionics and used PS-90A engines later in the years.  I would have just upgraded the Tu-204 and it would probably be in a lot of numbers by now too.

SSJ-100 is the first for Sukhoi though.

First flight was in 1989 so it's a soviet plane. SSJ was the first to be russian (dev included) and it happened after the destruction of the industry.

Tu-204 couldn't be successful because it was made for soviet system where planes and airport belonged to the state. It was roposed with improvements but couldn't compete with airbus and boeing after sale services. The plane itself was the best at the time.