European gas imports

George1 wrote:The United States attempts to use aggravation of the situation around Ukraine to promote its liquefied natural gas (LNG) in Europe but Europeans will give up Russian pipeline gas in the extreme case only, experts questions by TASS said.

"Indeed, new developments around Ukraine give the upper hand to the US administration and US gas suppliers in their attempts to steal back the European market from Russia," Program Director of the Valdai Discussion Club Ivan Timofeev said. "The US now attempts to overtake the initiative on this occasion but they did not receive any clear answer in this regard after the meeting between US President Joe Biden with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. Yes, certainly, the Germans and the Europeans say in general that they will approach the US in a certain case but they will continue thinking while "the certain case" does not occur," he noted.

Not really. Uncle Sham is now talking to Qatar to supply LNG to Europe.

The US simply does not have enough liquefaction and transport capabilities to offset Nord Stream 2. Let alone the entirety of Russian natural gas exports to Europe.
Even if Qatar does agree to this they typically insist on long term gas supply contracts. This would also likely divert gas that would otherwise go to Japan to Europe.
This is just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

If the US and the EU do cut technology exports to Russia, like the US is wanting to do, then Russia might simply cut all gas exports to the EU.
Otherwise what would Russia buy from these countries? Champagne and cheese? GMO Soybeans and Corn?

As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

Ignorance is a bliss, you go girl

PapaDragon wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

Ignorance is a bliss, you go girl

Its called security.

Russia is a hostile country to France and Europe in general. It is not in our interest to depend in any field on Russia. Its that simple. The current
developments show that. Infact it goes very well now. Entire EU is united against Russia, Nordstream II is basicly dead and we now see how the entire
EU goes for alternatives for russian gas. Once this process is completed, it will be not reverseable.

Bro it was not russia that put you into the position you are in. The west screams out in pain as it strikes you. This is because our leaders are as corrupt and depraved as anything in the east. The insidious aspect of it is that they play their games within a managed democracy that is inextricably tied to media and big business.

Worrying about the power wielded by the ruskies in natural gas trade is ridiculous as it can only be blamed on Europe's poorly implemented ideology of green energy policy. If you dont like being beholden to the ruskies for part of your energy supplies then surely you can stop buying, but know that they will take their business elsewhere and the influence you have on russia will weaken while in the long term their ties with Asian states will only grow

TMA1 wrote:Bro it was not russia that put you into the position you are in. The west screams out in pain as it strikes you. This is because our leaders are as corrupt and depraved as anything in the east. The insidious aspect of it is that they play their games within a managed democracy that is inextricably tied to media and big business.

Worrying about the power wielded by the ruskies in natural gas trade is ridiculous as it can only be blamed on Europe's poorly implemented ideology of green energy policy. If you dont like being beholden to the ruskies for part of your energy supplies then surely you can stop buying, but know that they will take their business elsewhere and the influence you have on russia will weaken while in the long term their ties with Asian states will only grow

I think you dont understand. This is not about gas, this is about our national security and the Security of Europe. It is not secure to base the energy demands on a highly corrupted regime in moscow. The energy purchased frim russia should never be above 10%.

Aristide wrote:I think you dont understand. This is not about gas, this is about our national security and the Security of Europe. It is not secure to base the energy demands on a highly corrupted regime in moscow. The energy purchased frim russia should never be above 10%.

Do not be an idiot. Do you think Europe is safer relying on Qatari gas supplies? The guys who used to sponsor Al-Qaeda and still sponsor ISIL/ISIS? The guys who safe harbored the Taliban? Qatar is a de facto absolute monarchy, just like the whole of the Gulf petrostates. Plus Qatari LNG is always going to be more expensive than piped gas, and a lot dirtier, that is just the nature of the thing. While US LNG is extracted via fracking and will always be more expensive and dirtier as well.

Even France isn't building nuclear powerplants at a rate fast enough to replace the ones going to be decomissioned. Other countries in Europe are just decomissioning nuclear power plants and not building any as replacement. Add to that rapidly depleting Northern Europe gas fields and the imminent closure of natural gas extraction in the Netherlands and there will be an energy crunch. There is no quick or simple solution for this, and they aren't even working on a solution to begin with.

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

lancelot wrote:

Aristide wrote:I think you dont understand. This is not about gas, this is about our national security and the Security of Europe. It is not secure to base the energy demands on a highly corrupted regime in moscow. The energy purchased frim russia should never be above 10%.

Do not be an idiot. Do you think Europe is safer relying on Qatari gas supplies? The guys who used to sponsor Al-Qaeda and still sponsor ISIL/ISIS? The guys who safe harbored the Taliban? Qatar is a de facto absolute monarchy, just like the whole of the Gulf petrostates. Plus Qatari LNG is always going to be more expensive than piped gas, and a lot dirtier, that is just the nature of the thing. While US LNG is extracted via fracking and will always be more expensive and dirtier as well.

Even France isn't building nuclear powerplants at a rate fast enough to replace the ones going to be decomissioned. Other countries in Europe are just decomissioning nuclear power plants and not building any as replacement. Add to that rapidly depleting Northern Europe gas fields and the imminent closure of natural gas extraction in the Netherlands and there will be an energy crunch. There is no quick or simple solution for this, and they aren't even working on a solution to begin with.

No EU country should get more than 10% of its energy from the same supplier. Its that simple. Right now Germany gets 30% from Russia. Getting 10% from Qatar, 10% from USA and 10% from Russia is the far better solution for national security.

And btw russian gas is the most expensive since you have to constantly secure eastern european borders against russian agression. Now its Ukraine, next would be Poland or the Baltics.

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

I disagree.

NS II will become online. It's a matter of time.

And i don't agree turning off Nordstream I. And will not be off. Europe count with those pipelines. It's not only Germany.

Having energy from Russia is an advantage for Europe.

PortugueseMan wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

I disagree.

NS II will become online. It's a matter of time.

And i don't agree turning off Nordstream I. And will not be off. Europe count with those pipelines. It's not only Germany.

Having energy from Russia is an advantage for Europe.

No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Sacre bleu our French oracle is back. Heaven help us.

I note that his grasp on reality has not improved.

Aristide wrote:

PortugueseMan wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

I disagree.

NS II will become online. It's a matter of time.

And i don't agree turning off Nordstream I. And will not be off. Europe count with those pipelines. It's not only Germany.

Having energy from Russia is an advantage for Europe.

No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Russia is not a threat to Europe, and Europe is not a threat to Russia. NATO is.

We europeans must solve NATO issue. NATO is not representing Europe interests. Europe needs a stronger voice, but since Europe is not a country means it is a big challenge to overcome.

France is not against NS II, it is not against using Soyuz, it is not against building Mistral's, participation in Sukhoi Superjet engine, helped with plane certification through EASA. GALILEO goes to space with russian rockets.

There are lot of signs of good relations between both countries. The main problem is as always politics. Too much approach to Russia is always a difficult matter.

Germans have to do what we say... Is that a democratic thought...?

I think Germany is old enough to take their own decisions. Germany have decided long ago, to use russia n gas.

Russia offered direct connection, bypassing Poland and Ukraine.

Off course we are all adults here, germans, russians, polish, ukranians, americans, etc, knew the meaning of this.

NS I & II will be online and pipelines are strategic for Europe.

And in my opinion, Germany is one of the main goals for Russia. Russia and Germany wants a bigger relation. There are countries actively against this. France is not one of them.

PortugueseMan wrote:

And in my opinion, Germany is one of the main goals for Russia. Russia and Germany wants a bigger relation. There are countries actively against this. France is not one of them.

You are new here.

There is a Forum rule that we must not include all the post stack when making a comment, just include the last one.

The Frenchman should know better.

JohninMK wrote:

PortugueseMan wrote:

And in my opinion, Germany is one of the main goals for Russia. Russia and Germany wants a bigger relation. There are countries actively against this. France is not one of them.

You are new here.

There is a Forum rule that we must not include all the post stack when making a comment, just include the last one.

The Frenchman should know better.

Hello,

I use the "Quote" button, as i did now. I should not use this button? Should use the "Reply" button?

It is not a good set up on this forum. I have to edit out the

text that goes back too many levels. The system should
be doing this automatically if it is a forum rule. I do not even think this rule makes any sense since the storage footprint is tiny. What
grinds this site down is video and photograph posts.

Aristide wrote:No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Oh look it's the Tunisian cosplaying masquerading as a Frenchman, then again the EU calls Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Armenia "European" countries so I guess Tunisia can be a 'European' country too! Everyone who participates wins a trophy! The EscarGaul of you!

As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

And your government are taking steps to ensure you can't... so when it costs 100 times more and you decide you don't want to buy it any more there will be no problem... your freedom to choose is preserved by not being given a choice...

Its called security.

How is cheap gas from Russia who has never used it as a weapon before a threat to EU security?

How does paying five times more for US freedom gas or gas from the middle east make you more secure?

I am sure China will appreciate all that cheap gas you are not getting... they will be able to keep their factories operating much longer hours when they move from coal to gas.

Russia is a hostile country to France and Europe in general.

Hostile?

How many Russian troops on French borders? Lots of HATO troops in Ukraine and Poland and Baltic states and wanting to be in Sweden and Finland and Ukraine and Georgia...

It is not in our interest to depend in any field on Russia. Its that simple.

Good. Your American overlords think they will weaken Russia and strengthen themselves by cutting you off from Russian gas but all they will do is weaken you.

The current
developments show that.

The current deployments of Russian troops inside Russian territory in response to deployments of Ukrainian troops to the border of a disputed area... yeah... obviously they are preparing to attack France directly...

Infact it goes very well now. Entire EU is united against Russia, Nordstream II is basicly dead and we now see how the entire
EU goes for alternatives for russian gas. Once this process is completed, it will be not reverseable.

Do you promise? The EU bought Russian gas because it was cheap and relatively clean energy compared with coal for instance.

Cutting yourself from Russian gas wont hurt Russia, the Asian market pays rather more for gas than Europe does, so they can make rather more money for their gas in other places... you are doing them a favour both in forcing them to sell to others and therefore make more money selling cheap energy to countries that are not moving their military bases closer to Russia and threatening them.

I think you dont understand. This is not about gas, this is about our national security and the Security of Europe. It is not secure to base the energy demands on a highly corrupted regime in moscow. The energy purchased frim russia should never be above 10%.

The only states using gas energy as a weapons are the EU and Ukraine and the US... Russia has complied with all your bullshit regulations all intended to make their gas cheaper... Poland took the Russians to European court and saved 1.5 billion dollars on their gas purchases for the previous 5 years and in the year or two since that ruling they have LOST 4 billion in extra costs because of the new method of calculating the gas price and they want to go back to the old scheme... so really who is bullying whom?

It is spot market prices that the EU demanded and it is spot market prices they now have... anyone with any understanding of business will know spot price markets are volatile and don't like uncertainty and will always go up faster than they go down which is why most countries prefer long term contracts because the price is stable and can be used in long term planning.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

Well they do and they can see what the result of that choice is by looking at the Ukraine over the next few years...

They are following instructions from the US and look at the rewards... the US sends Javelins and the UK sends time expired disposable rocket launchers with performance similar perhaps to old RPG-26s at best.

No EU country should get more than 10% of its energy from the same supplier.

So every EU country has to deal with 10 other countries to supply its own energy needs?

Do you think it is wise to turn off your power supply and then decide you need new sources of power?

Its that simple. Right now Germany gets 30% from Russia. Getting 10% from Qatar, 10% from USA and 10% from Russia is the far better solution for national security.

And when new pipes are built to China and Russia decides that the Chinese are better customers and stops using NSII I am sure Qatar and the US can expand production to meet their needs....

And btw russian gas is the most expensive since you have to constantly secure eastern european borders against russian agression. Now its Ukraine, next would be Poland or the Baltics.

It is my understanding the the Baltic states are still connected to the Soviet electricity grid... you really want to close pipes and cut power lines?

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

That will be fine by Russia.... let the EU pay the Ukraine for their gas supplies... I am sure they wont steal gas from you... again.

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

Tell that to your neighbours in the EU who depend on gas and don't have nuclear power as a backup...

You are no better than the US trying to screw Europe to make some money for yourself at their expense.

No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Sounds pretty obvious who the dictatorship is and its starts with F...

I use the "Quote" button, as i did now. I should not use this button? Should use the "Reply" button?

You can use the Quote button but edit the quote before posting.

Next to the send button is a preview button, if you find the text you actually want to reply to and delete all the other texts and quotes and then press the preview button to see if you go it right... sometimes you miss some html code and it doesn't work properly... what you need to be left with is the text you are replying to and a {/quote} at the end (but square brackets rather than curved ones like I use here so you can see) and a similar square bracket quote at the start... you can leave the username there if you want or just delete that too.

Personally I open my reply in a separate tab and jump between tabs copying what I want to quote and pasting it in quote brackets and then typing out a reply.

PortugueseMan wrote:

Aristide wrote:

PortugueseMan wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:As European i dont want buy energy from a regime like Russia. Its that simple.

You don't have a choice. It's that simple.

We do have a choice and its done right now. NS II will never go online and new suppliers arise. Quatar, USA, new fields in the mediterranean. Even Iran is a better solution than Russia as supplier.

As it stands now France will not support NS II to go online and made it clear to Germany, which finally accepted that this pipeline is dead anyways.

Fine by Russia

I hope Europe realizes that gas will stop flowing through the Ukraine after 2024 as well though

Perfect, even better if Nordstream I is shut down too.

I disagree.

NS II will become online. It's a matter of time.

And i don't agree turning off Nordstream I. And will not be off. Europe count with those pipelines. It's not only Germany.

Having energy from Russia is an advantage for Europe.

No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Russia is not a threat to Europe, and Europe is not a threat to Russia. NATO is.

We europeans must solve NATO issue. NATO is not representing Europe interests. Europe needs a stronger voice, but since Europe is not a country means it is a big challenge to overcome.

France is not against NS II, it is not against using Soyuz, it is not against building Mistral's, participation in Sukhoi Superjet engine, helped with plane certification through EASA. GALILEO goes to space with russian rockets.

There are lot of signs of good relations between both countries. The main problem is as always politics. Too much approach to Russia is always a difficult matter.

Germans have to do what we say... Is that a democratic thought...?

I think Germany is old enough to take their own decisions. Germany have decided long ago, to use russia n gas.

Russia offered direct connection, bypassing Poland and Ukraine.

Off course we are all adults here, germans, russians, polish, ukranians, americans, etc, knew the meaning of this.

NS I & II will be online and pipelines are strategic for Europe.

And in my opinion, Germany is one of the main goals for Russia. Russia and Germany wants a bigger relation. There are countries actively against this. France is not one of them.

Russia is our main enemy since late 16th century, so dont be ridicolous.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Aristide wrote:No it is not. Russia is a hyper corrupted oligarch dictatorship that threatens entire Europe. France is completly agaimst NS II and it wont go online. Its that simple. The Germans have to do what we say.

Oh look it's the Tunisian cosplaying masquerading as a Frenchman, then again the EU calls Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Armenia "European" countries so I guess Tunisia can be a 'European' country too! Everyone who participates wins a trophy! The EscarGaul of you!

I always find it funny when eastern europeans try to use northern african or arab heritage as insult...when infact northern africa or arab countries always had the absolute cultural supremacy over eastern europe. Fun fact, Russia never at any point had the impact on humanity that Egypt, Carthago or the Numidians had.

That said, no i have no north african heritage. Im pure french with some roots in spain.

lyle6 wrote:You're so French your visage could not be any more indistinguishable in a lineup of Maghrebi and Arab rapefugees. Ok.

@GarryB

What you say about racism like this?