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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #30

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:24 am

    Nail on head

    Was thinking the same till it talked about Putins dictatorial regime... I mean I realise western countries have public referendums all the time... especially when thinking of going to war or some other drastic policy... NOT.

    This guy is right in that Putin has said Russia is ready to react, but wont invade without provocation.

    He is wrong thinking Putin likes being sanctioned and the empty pointless western aggression against Russia... Putin wanted cooperation and trade, and all he got was dictatorial instructions and demands from the west to tow the line or else.

    The fact that the west does not play nice is not Putins fault and he has continued to give them every opportunity to play nice but they clearly don't know how.

    This is likely to be a replay of Georgia where the Kosovo declaration of independence supported by the west led to Russia opening its borders to South Ossetia and Abkhazia which had been largely closed to respect Georgia, but they were abusing that and so the Kosovo bullshit allowed them to seek better relations... once those borders were open both regions massively improved with trade and Georgia was forced to do something clumsy and attack... and I suspect if the Donbass region opens to Russia and trade boosts their economy and their way of life improves without Russians invading and stealing everything not bolted down, the rest of the Ukraine might have second thoughts and Kiev will be forced to invade like Georgia did and the Russians will just crush them and push them back and just do what they did in their far south.

    They wont be stealing any new land, they will be securing former Soviet compatriots from a despotic new regime in Tiblisi and Kiev respectively.

    The west will have a shitfit and try to hide the spanners they are holding because the bolted down assets in the Donbass will not theirs for the taking... it is the end of democracy as we know it.... Rolling Eyes

    Every time it's a more "calm" and more open to diologue guy than the one he replaced.

    Indeed there are plenty offering solutions but the ones less anti Russia seem to be offering the better solutions, but the fundamental problem is that politicians are liars... Zelensky promised peace didn't he? Just like Trump promised dealing with the Russians... not capitulation... but an end to the meaningless hostility and confrontation that is helping no one... but when they both got into power they found they couldn't do what they wanted and fell in to the same old worn path of look at me and how strong I am because putin is the enemy.

    Next time it will still be an even more pro russian guy untill Russia places its own pawn.

    But that is the point, if you listen to western propaganda the guy kicked out of office at Maidan was pro Russia... but he wasn't. He was pro Ukraine but realised the Russian offer was much better than the EU offer... even more so that the Russian offer could be accepted as well as the Chinese offer, but the EU offer required him to decline both the Russian and Chinese offers...

    There can be no pro Russian president in Kiev... they haven't had one this century so far... that is why they are in the mess they are currently in.

    It's not like french or US who are starving in their countries will give away industries and jobs to ukraine. And they are probably thinking that russia wasn't that bad.

    The west wants Ukraine to be their customer, but the problem for the Ukraine is that Russia was a serious customer of a lot of very specialised products but the last few years have forced them to make their own substitutes. They can't just expect Russia to go back to buying stuff from the Ukraine... a lot of the stuff they probably can't make any more in the volumes and quality needed because most of their stuff is probably sold and the expertise is gone.
    More importantly there are Russian companies making replacement stuff that is likely better quality using new technology and new tooling... they are not going to go back to Ukrainian stuff now.

    The food producers in the EU are in the same hole, they are the biggest lobby group to reduce or end sanctions against Russia but what they probably don't realise is that letting EU food producers into the Russian market will let all these new Russian food producers into the EU market and their low costs and production quality might be a real problem... they might be able to beat EU producers in the EU market just because of the value of the Ruble and all round food production capacity... the weather outside being too cold for growing food means inside food production so all year round production gives them an advantage in the off season...

    Will be interesting... but in the case of the Ukraine and the EU.... Russia has learned to satisfy a lot of its own needs...

    Get in line or else...

    The Ukrianian Rich and powerful likely thought if they put their weight behind the west they would make more money and become more powerful and instead their country has been destroyed so there will be a lot of them who would really prefer to get back into their traditional market of Russia and go back to making decent money... which is now a "russian backed coup".... amusing considering the only coup there in a while was so openly western supported... but now coups are bad it seems.

    NOTE: love how the Ukrainians and the West distort the numbers through the media.

    But if there are not Russians there how can they blame them for all their problems... and why hasn't Kiev just walked all over these peasants defending their home and their spoken language of choice?

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:29 am

    Would add that despite the high support for Putin in Russia most of the people who have a problem with Putin don't think he is too anti west... that is a tiny fraction... a 1% group... a Navalny group... the majority of people who don't like Putin in Russia and want him replaced want him replaced because he is too patient and not aggressive enough against the west whom they now realise are the enemy and will not suddenly become friendly or a useful ally and partner.

    The west would be about as good for Russia or China as a Heroin addiction, or in the case of China an opium addiction...
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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:41 pm

    https://tass.com/world/1370773

    The US is not afraid of Putin's ultimatum. It doesn't look good. The US is trying to confront it.
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    Post  LMFS Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:https://tass.com/world/1370773

    The US is not afraid of Putin's ultimatum.  It doesn't look good. The US is trying to confront it.

    More "tough guy" BS from the dummy. Let us see whether they have what it takes to go to war against Russia over the ukie nazis
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:26 pm

    Tommorrow he won't remember what he said today lol1 .

    This puppet was brainwashed by Pfizer long time ago lol1 .

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:28 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Arrow wrote:https://tass.com/world/1370773

    The US is not afraid of Putin's ultimatum.  It doesn't look good. The US is trying to confront it.

    More "tough guy" BS from the dummy. Let us see whether they have what it takes to go to war against Russia over the ukie nazis

    He says they will have a long discussion with Putin.

    In other words, nothing.  Like you said, big talk from US.  NATO already said they wont get involved in Ukraine if war breaks out.  And US has shown their gross incompetence in Syria where they fled when Russians were advancing, and also cannot move large amount of troops in any decent amount of time.

    So yeah, tough guy from a old man who shits himself.

    Biden doesn't have to recognize Russian Red lines. Russia doesn't have to recognize US' either. In the end, US will be at fault for Ukraine being destroyed and nothing the US can do about it without getting a nuke shoved up its ass.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:34 pm


    The US will want to set up bases and deploy missile installations at the UA. When they finally develop the hypersonic missiles or the new IRBMs, it will be a very dangerous situation for Russia. The missile flight from UA takes 3 minutes to Moscow

    At the moment, they do not have the appropriate missile weapons to install them at the UA.But once they get there, they'll stay there.
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:52 pm

    Russia made it clear they wont allow that to happen.  So as soon as any hint of it happening, Russia will probably strike.  And it wont be 3 mins but 7 mins to Moscow, but then again, Russia will take a few minutes more to hit Washington so it doesnt matter.

    Plus once Russia's anti hypersonic missile systems are in place around key points in Russia, it will be like as it was in Syria.  Oh, and the US still doesn't have supersonic either.  So yeah, it will take a lot of time.

    Russia has the advantage of moving units faster than US can, plus they can pile up very quickly compared to US at western border. US forces would be all dead in matter of minutes if they did something so stupid. Then again, maybe that is what needs to happen for American morons to get it through their thick skulls.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:38 pm

    Back during the turkish shot down of the su-24 they made it clear, both NATO and US won't help them in a war against Russia.

    And people think they will do anything against them for Ukraine and risk a nuclear strike on London or Paris as a warning.

    Talk is cheap. Ukrainian must understand they will be alone so they better talk with russians.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:46 pm

    flamming_python wrote:...What's the result? They ended up being picked as public enemy no. 1 anyway, depicted as an aggressive, malignant force that has to be contained by the free world. Despite them not having done anything at all (border conflict with India not withstanding, who isn't even an ally of the US)...

    And in the end they still needed Russian ships to lead their fancy new fleet out in the open ocean on their first naval ops

    You can't buy balls with money, they have to be grown naturally




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    Post  George1 Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:52 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #30 - Page 27 93542510
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:13 pm

    Video from few days ago. They better not stay there. It will be targeted very fast by an Iskander or a 500kg bombs from su-34. That's just a big practice target for Russia.


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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:19 pm

    yeah, it was already posted earlier.

    To wipe those out, you dont need Iskander. Smerch's are enough. If push comes to shove, why waste an iskander when older Tochka's would be enough too.
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:33 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:yeah, it was already posted earlier.

    To wipe those out, you dont need Iskander.  Smerch's are enough.  If push comes to shove, why waste an iskander when older Tochka's would be enough too.

    Smerch would need other than HE warhead. I don't know if it really suited for use against tanks.

    Tochka are not in service anymore at all. I wonder if they could use them now. They have probably sent a lot to SAA and Armenia.
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    Post  franco Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:16 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:yeah, it was already posted earlier.

    To wipe those out, you dont need Iskander.  Smerch's are enough.  If push comes to shove, why waste an iskander when older Tochka's would be enough too.

    Smerch would need other than HE warhead. I don't know if it really suited for use against tanks.

    Tochka are not in service anymore at all. I wonder if they could use them now. They have probably sent a lot to SAA and Armenia.

    Donbass militia captured a couple of launchers. First use was not successful but I'm sure someone has trained them in the years since Wink and can access a few missiles laying around somewhere welcome
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    Post  TMA1 Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

    Russia would strike if they feel the west will shut down ns2 and continue the provocations with ukraine and other nations. They mean business. I hope this will get russia and western powers to start talking again.

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    Post  par far Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 pm

    Putin-Biden summit is set for Tuesday, let's see what comes of it.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:28 pm

    par far wrote:Putin-Biden summit is set for Tuesday, let's see what comes of it.

    Would be funny if Putin doesn't show and launch the attack the same hour.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:28 pm

    par far wrote:Putin-Biden summit is set for Tuesday, let's see what comes of it.

    Nothing will come of it. Putin, as always, hopes to reach an agreement with the US.

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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:58 pm

    Twitter is so funny. All those specialists annalyzing how the weak Russian forces can actually win in Ukraine lol1 but with thousands of deaths according to their "in-deapth" studies lol1 . They don't even know what to say anymore. They're eating their ties like Sakach' back in 2008.

    Twitter is the place where to be in dec 2021. lol1

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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:27 pm

    Isos wrote:Twitter is so funny. All those specialists annalyzing how the weak Russian forces can actually win in Ukraine lol1 but with thousands of deaths according to their "in-deapth" studies lol1 . They don't even know what to say anymore. They're eating their ties like Sakach' back in 2008.

    Twitter is the place where to be in dec 2021. lol1

    Ah yes, I will never forget 2008 offensive into Georgia. Russia was ill equipped, poorly trained back then and they sent a force equal in size to that of Georgia. I remember reading how Russia would lose that conflict. It was no more than a week before Russia was moving onto the Capital when Georgia capitulated and Shaka fled.

    Russia is significantly more powerful now, more trained, far better equipped (by magnitudes more) than they were in 2008. Ukraine on the other hand is less trained than Georgian troops, poorly equipped and sitting dilapidated.

    Twitter is full of morons anyway.

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    Post  franco Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:31 pm

    Isos wrote:Twitter is so funny. All those specialists annalyzing how the weak Russian forces can actually win in Ukraine lol1 but with thousands of deaths according to their "in-deapth" studies lol1 . They don't even know what to say anymore. They're eating their ties like Sakach' back in 2008.

    Twitter is the place where to be in dec 2021. lol1

    They go on about this reason and that reason for the crisis and what Putin wants but none of them speak about what if Ukraine tries to settle matters by force. That is the white elephant in the room and not in the propaganda play script.

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    Post  LMFS Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Russia made it clear they wont allow that to happen.  So as soon as any hint of it happening, Russia will probably strike.  And it wont be 3 mins but 7 mins to Moscow, but then again, Russia will take a few minutes more to hit Washington so it doesnt matter.

    The thing with red lines is that nobody asks the other side to approve them. They do exist, and if you trespass them you will pay the price. Lavrov has said something along these lines today. Russia has stopped mincing words for a while and it is getting now fully in the field of war rhetoric. The West better think twice what they do or they will be handed the defeat in WWIII because of some retards in Ukraine.

    Plus once Russia's anti hypersonic missile systems are in place around key points in Russia, it will be like as it was in Syria.  Oh, and the US still doesn't have supersonic either.  So yeah, it will take a lot of time.

    Tsirkon in the VMF beginning of 2022....

    Russia has the advantage of moving units faster than US can, plus they can pile up very quickly compared to US at western border.  US forces would be all dead in matter of minutes if they did something so stupid.  Then again, maybe that is what needs to happen for American morons to get it through their thick skulls.

    Well, that is what happens when you are ALREADY there because it is the doorstep of your house. Geography is a bitch, but what can you expect from people that confuse Austria and Australia, or Korea and Crimea...

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    Post  kvs Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:46 pm

    Even Obama recognized that Russia has escalation dominance in Ukraine. NATO cannot ride in to the rescue.

    But Russia is not interested in invading the toilet called Ukria. It will not even "invade" the Donbass. I am quite sure
    that over the last 7 years the Donbass "militia" has been upgraded into a real army. It was already more competent
    and able than the Kiev regime "army" in 2014. The gap has only increased since then. Russia has a strong incentive
    to have it this way since it does not want or need to play into NATzO's hands.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:53 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Russia made it clear they wont allow that to happen.  So as soon as any hint of it happening, Russia will probably strike.  And it wont be 3 mins but 7 mins to Moscow, but then again, Russia will take a few minutes more to hit Washington so it doesnt matter.

    Yes it's true.  Russia now has great opportunities.  Thanks to Cirkon, Rusia can make a very quick strike in Washington in a few minutes.  It does not need bases, etc. Cirkon is a tactical missile, but all in all it has great possibilities thanks to the super-silent 885M. CONUS and NATO have very weak anti-aircraft and missile defense system, and none against hypersonic missiles.  Russia, on the other hand, can already defend itself against the IRBM.Develops S 500 and S 300V4 against IRBM. Although if the US risks deploying the IRBM close to Russia's borders, it's a dangerous game.

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