Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

PJSC "UAC"
The General Director of Rostec State Corporation visited Yuri Gagarin KnAAZ, where the production of Su-57 fighters is currently underway. The company is working to increase the production of these aircraft under the contract between the UAC and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, and a new batch of fighters will be delivered to the troops in the near future.

KnAAZ plans to increase the production of fifth-generation fighters by introducing modern production methods, building new facilities and purchasing modern equipment. The company has created a production line in the final assembly shops. The experience of implementing such a technological approach in the production of previous-generation aircraft has reduced the product manufacturing cycle by 30%. A project has been developed to introduce elements of augmented reality, which will increase the accuracy of technological operations and reduce the duration of their execution.

A cooling center for applying special coatings that reduce the visibility of the aircraft was also put into operation, about 300 special stands and consoles for testing the Su-57 were manufactured, and high-precision equipment was purchased to improve the quality and reduce the time required for manufacturing parts.

"This year, the Russian Aerospace Forces will receive new Su-57 fighters, they are in a high degree of readiness, and in the future the production rate of these fighters will be increased. We understand how important this work is, so to increase production of the Su-57, the plant is actively expanding and modernizing. At the moment, KnAAZ is loaded with orders until 2028, " said Sergey Chemezov.

In August, the company laid down new facilities for testing fighter systems and equipment. First of all, a boathouse for testing avionics, a fuel box and an updated engine test station will be built, which will receive the first aircraft in the second half of 2023. In the future, the company will build a new housing for the Su-57 at the flight test station, the third stage of electroplating production. There will also be reconstruction of facilities for mechanical processing and heat treatment.

"To ensure a growing production program, we need to attract additional personnel. We create conditions for specialists and workers to come to our enterprises, and raise wages. At KnAAZ, a phased indexation of tariffs and salaries was carried out by a total of 24 percent. Today, the average salary at the enterprise for production workers is 84 thousand rubles. Our goal is to ensure that the average salary level at UAC enterprises is at least 10% higher than the average in the city, " said UAC General Director Yuri Slyusar. - Together with the regional authorities, we implement programs to improve the working and living conditions of our employees. In 2022, our largest plant, KnAAZ, transferred taxes in the amount of 2.5 billion rubles to the budgets of the Khabarovsk Territory and Komsomolsk-on-Amur."

https://t.me/s/uac_ru

What allows the chinese factories to produce J-20s at a higher rate than the Su-57(10-20 J-20s per years compared to 1 Su-57 per year)?

limb wrote:What allows the chinese factories to produce J-20s at a higher rate than the Su-57(10-20 J-20s per years compared to 1 Su-57 per year)?

China is a manufacturing giant. Their human and technological capacities are order of magnitude higher. That's not up for discussion. What's the point of your post?

China has already around 150 j-20 in service. And probably 500-600 j-10C. And some 200-300 j-11.

They also still operate almost 100 su-30mkk and 24 su-35.

Their production rate is above all the other. Just imagibe if their factories start producing missiles in a war time mode. They will make 100s of cruise and ballistic missile per day. Funniest is that now Russia will provide raw ressources with a big smile if a war starts over Taiwan.

Up until quite recently Chinas air force was terribly obsolete and in need of replacement, and the same could be said of her Navy and her Army.

Well they recognise this and they have been putting their new found financial and production muscle into doing something about it and they are coming up with modern designs and mass producing them.

Some they perhaps copied, others are likely actually licence production, but it is not like no one else does that... for a very long time Russia only had expensive low performance thermal imager technology... when the cold war ended and they were selling products to third party customers they got French makers of high quality thermals to allow them to licence produce some of their best products.

All of a sudden Russian companies started making state of the art thermal imagers... do you guys think that was an accident?

For half a century the Russians were happy with SVD levels of sniper rifle accuracy together with the odd Mosin rifle, and eventually the SV-98, but for the 20th century they didn't seem interested in long range accuracy in rifles or tank guns etc etc... well now that has changed too... some copying was required but eventually they started working on their own ideas and technologies... every country is the same.

Most innovation in the US comes from imported brains too.

China had a fleet of obsolete old Soviet or Soviet derived aircraft... but now they have money and production capacity why can't they have good things too?

But I suspect your real jibe is that Russia is not mass producing Su-57s like China is producing Frigates and Destroyers.

Russia can't afford to beat the west by doing that... the costs would be crippling and the result would not be of much benefit either.

Russia is still buying lots of Flankers. There is no good reason not to replace most of those purchases, like Su-35 purchases, with Su-57 purchases. The Su-57 price is not that different from the one of the Su-35. But it seems the RuAF is still waiting for the Su-57M to come out before mass production starts.

As is, they are still upgrading the factory really slowly to ramp up production.

Russia also needs to come up with the dual seater aircraft derived from Su-57 and move the other factory from producing Su-30 aircraft to the dual seater.

limb wrote:What allows the chinese factories to produce J-20s at a higher rate than the Su-57(10-20 J-20s per years compared to 1 Su-57 per year)?

China has a bigger economy than the US.

But it's mostly the fact that the Western defense media believes everything China says. China could say it produces 20 J-20's a month and everyone would believe it.

Nobody really knows how many J-20's are being produced. Nobody really knows if the pictures we see are just prototypes or production variants.

Isos wrote:China has already around 150 j-20 in service.



.

Really. What evidence do you have of this ? What engine do these 150 aircraft have ?

Backman wrote:

Isos wrote:China has already around 150 j-20 in service.

Really. What evidence do you have of this ? What engine do these 150 aircraft have ?

I have heard similar numbers from people who do ORBAT analysis about the PLAAF. People who keep track of aircraft tail numbers and try to match aircraft to units and bases.

As for the engine, allegedly it is was the Russian built AL-31FM2 on the initial variants and right now it is the Chinese built WS-10C. The AL-31FM2 has similar thrust level to the Su-35 engine but does not have TVC.

Currently, the Su-57 is in the low level production stage.

A similar production line (like the one for the Su-35) with same capacity is being finalised for Su-57 production

Reps from KNAAZ that were interviewed say they will be ready to produce over 2 dozen Su-57s per year in 1-2 years.

A second production line is being planned in the near future with their ultimate target being to produce close to 100 per year.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/9065?single

100 per year ? What a joke. They can't produce 100 yak 130 per year even if the need for is at least 300 trainer. Su-57 was order to 76 jets untill 2027.

They need to stop dumb statements.

The guy is in charge of production and he is telling us roughly what it has expanded to.

Neither his job nor his place to tell us what is on order.

There is no good reason not to replace most of those purchases, like Su-35 purchases, with Su-57 purchases.

You can't say that because there are no operational Su-57 units that have operated in every corner of Russian air space for all four months of the year to compare the Su-35s performance in operational units with.

For most jobs the Su-57 just might not be needed.

The Su-57 price is not that different from the one of the Su-35.

We don't know anything about its operational costs... to maintain its stealth it might be very expensive... or perhaps simple and cheap.

But it seems the RuAF is still waiting for the Su-57M to come out before mass production starts.

Sounds pretty sensible to me.

09/27/2022
InoSMI
Russia has found new ways to use the Su-57





Will Russia be able to implement the plan for a future aircraft carrier based on the Su-57 with an electromagnetic catapult ?
* Recently, Russia presented a mock-up of a warship carrying a modified Su-57 with an electromagnetic catapult, Sohu user writes. The new version of the fighter would allow her to strengthen the fleet at minimal cost. But there is one thing, the author notes.

Not so long ago, Russia presented a model of the future aircraft carrier. Interestingly, the carrier-based aircraft for this vessel is actually a model of a sea-based Su-57 fighter, whose launch is carried out using the most advanced electromagnetic catapult technology. Currently, the only aircraft carrier operating in Russia is the obsolete Admiral Kuznetsov, which uses a springboard deck. Moreover, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the Navy would train naval aviation in the use of electromagnetic catapults. Is it possible to implement this technology? What aircraft carrier does the Russian Federation really need?

At the moment, the smallest aircraft carrier in the world is considered to be a multipurpose universal landing ship (UDC) with a displacement of up to 40,000 tons. In general, this so-called aircraft carrier is a multi-purpose warship converted from UDC. Its springboard deck is used for aircraft takeoffs and landings, and landing vehicles can be transported inside. In addition to VTOL fighters, helicopters are the main carrier-based aircraft of the UDC. The reason why this type of ship can also be considered an aircraft carrier is that the United States has recently completed the construction of the F-35B fighter. If other countries can buy sea-based F-35Bs and upgrade the decks of their UDCs a little, then landing ships will be able to carry them.

Take the UK, for example: its Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier has an F-35B take-off deck and a vertical landing deck, making the process much easier. In addition, many countries, such as Italy, Spain, France, South Korea and Japan, can build amphibious ships with a displacement of less than 40 thousand tons, so buying an advanced F-35B will allow them to fulfill their dream of an aircraft carrier. This is the same situation as when a small-tonnage aircraft carrier was upgraded to a carrier-based Hawker Sea Harrier fighter. It is not difficult for Russia to build a light aircraft carrier with a displacement of less than 40,000 tons. The main problem is that Russia does not have a proven and reliable VTOL fighter, so this option does not suit her. An aircraft carrier with an electromagnetic catapult and a flat deck with a displacement of more than 60,000 tons would be a worthy vessel of a powerful military power. The installation of an electromagnetic catapult will increase the efficiency of launching carrier-based aircraft, incomparable with an aircraft carrier with a springboard deck. But the problem is that it is very difficult to develop such a catapult. China and the United States were able to create it only after many years of in-depth research.In addition, in terms of time, this technology is not yet "ripe", its reliability is still incomparable with the previous steam catapult, it has to go through a lot of experiments and test launches.

As for the speed of development, in the next few years or even decades in Russia it will be almost impossible to introduce and practically apply the technology of an electromagnetic catapult. Just like China did with the Type 003 aircraft carrier, Russia knows that building this technology in a short amount of time is unrealistic. There is only one possibility for this: Moscow will try to get developments from Beijing. However, this is the most advanced military technology, whose export is also unlikely.

Thus, Russia cannot turn to the latest developments and does not want to turn to outdated ones. Can she choose the middle ?

The country's main carrier-based aircraft is the modernized MiG-29K, its positioning system is similar to that of the US Navy's Super Hornet fighter, but it is inferior in actual performance. If Russia makes a carrier-based version of the Su-57 and puts it into service, it could theoretically become an improved replacement for the MiG-29K. The Su-57 is a dedicated air-to-air anti-aircraft aircraft that can carry heavy weapons for land and sea attacks. The MiG-29K was originally a medium-sized fighter with a fairly large takeoff weight and high impact characteristics. While it doesn't compare to China's J-35s and upgraded J-15s, it's still not bad.

Most importantly, whether it's the MiG-29K or the previous Su-33 carrier-based aircraft, Russia does have a wealth of experience in deploying ski-jump deck aircraft carriers. The Su-33 fighter is larger in size and weight than the Su-57. For years, Moscow has successfully used the Su-33, proving that a 60,000-ton aircraft carrier like the Admiral Kuznetsov can carry and launch fighter jets. If you create a deck version of the Su-57, there will be no need to greatly upgrade the carrier ship, and then the springboard deck will fully reveal almost all the capabilities of the fighter. Thus, Russia will get a good aircraft carrier with minimal costs and difficulties.

Some time ago, Russia announced that it wants to make a deck model of the Su-57. It can modernize the Admiral Kuznetsov and get an advanced aircraft carrier with a flat deck and a displacement of about 60,000 tons. First of all, it will significantly reduce the cost and complexity of its construction. Secondly, only two carrier-based aircraft guarantee its basic combat capability - especially if one of them is the Su-57.

Of course, at this stage, one should not have too high hopes for the deck combination of the Su-57 or MiG-29K - this is still just an idea. With a handful of 20,000-ton amphibious assault ships capable of carrying enough drones and helicopters, Moscow will already bolster the Navy pretty well. Competing with America for hegemony at sea is just a dream. To be able to defend their territories and resist Europe is already a great feat.

Author: Lu Zhi

https://vpk.name/news/634889_rossiya_nashla_novye_sposoby_ispolzovaniya_su-57.html

TMA1 wrote:Hmm I wonder if the su-57 with izd 30 engines could take off with full fuel and nominal internal weapon load from a normal ski jump. I bet it could do it. So I wonder why they would need a catapult. What would be neat is if the Kuznetsov recieved one catapult on the side deck for awacs/refueler aircraft and let su-57m take off from the ski jump.

Izdeliye-30, "second stage" engines; Nominal engine thrust should be over 100 kN (107+ to be exact) per engine, while with afterburner that figure should be 171+ kN. That's enough, I'm convinced.

Podlodka77 wrote:09/27/2022
InoSMI
Russia has found new ways to use the Su-57

Thanks for posting, sadly the guy is not saying anything new while making many empty assumptions and evident errors

The need for catapults is of course more relevant for UAVs and AEW/AWACS planes, high thrust to weight ratio planes have no problem taking off from the ski jump, which is actually faster to prepare and more reliable to operate.They have no clue what kind of catapult technology Russia already has and at what level of development. And of course making a flat deck out of the K makes no sense.

Podlodka77 wrote:Izdeliye-30, "second stage" engines; Nominal engine thrust should be over 100 kN (107+ to be exact) per engine, while with afterburner that figure should be 171+ kN. That's enough, I'm convinced.

There are online simulations available, based on the aero profile of the Hornet but that allow to adjust thrust, weight, TO distance and other parameters. Thrust has a huge impact in the performance in such conditions and plugging likely thrust and weight values for the Su-57 of second stage resulted in the ability to take off with full fuel and a high combat payload from the short runs at the bow.

[quote="LMFS"]

Podlodka77 wrote:09/27/2022
InoSMI
Russia has found new ways to use the Su-57

Thanks for posting, sadly the guy is not saying anything new while making many empty assumptions and evident errors

The need for catapults is of course more relevant for UAVs and AEW/AWACS planes, high thrust to weight ratio planes have no problem taking off from the ski jump, which is actually faster to prepare and more reliable to operate.They have no clue what kind of catapult technology Russia already has and at what level of development. And of course making a flat deck out of the K makes no sense.

To be honest with you LMFS I quite like the VARAN aircraft carrier idea.
However, with 45,000 tons of full displacement, such an aircraft carrier would be far more "suitable" for the smaller Su-75. With such an aircraft carrier, a catapult would be mandatory because the single-engine Su-75 simply does not have the "breath" that the Su-57 certainly has.
It is true that only the Russians and the Chinese have heavy fighters based on the Su-33 aircraft on aircraft carriers, but I think that the Su-75 would also serve the purpose solidly.
I'm not really sure that MiG's idea of ​​a new deck fighter, the mockup of which we've already seen, will come to life. That is why I think that the Su-75 is an aircraft that could be used in the future aviation of Russia.
I would just add one very important thing to those carriers - nuclear propulsion. Yes, the cost of the ship in that case increases drastically, but if RITM-200 nuclear reactors have already done a good job on nuclear icebreakers of project 22220, then it is to be expected that nuclear reactors RITM-400 (intended for huge nuclear icebreakers of project 10510 Rossiya - the first ship "Rossiya" is under construction) will be quite enough for some future aircraft carriers - if Russia already decides to build them.

Thank you for your response.

Podlodka77 wrote:
To be honest with you LMFS I quite like the VARAN aircraft carrier idea.

The big discussion that seems to be ongoing in Russia is about the cost of a CVN. Of course it is expensive, but the capacities it provides are unique and necessary. VMF command is very clear about it, but it seems there is a political game to be played and it needs to be justified why their preference of having a relatively big carrier with nuclear propulsion is the right approach. People releasing the budgets are not always the best technical experts as we know, but in the end it is not wrong that the concept of a new Russian carrier is criticized from many points of view to reach to an optimal solution. The Varan tries to make such a vessel way cheaper by giving it commonality and making it small and simple, but it is certainly not what the VMF would like to have. The size is not enough to offer a high end solution to the VMF, which is what they need in order to deter the USN

However, with 45,000 tons of full displacement, such an aircraft carrier would be far more "suitable" for the smaller Su-75. With such an aircraft carrier, a catapult would be mandatory because the single-engine Su-75 simply does not have the "breath" that the Su-57 certainly has.
It is true that only the Russians and the Chinese have heavy fighters based on the Su-33 aircraft on aircraft carriers, but I think that the Su-75 would also serve the purpose solidly.
I'm not really sure that MiG's idea of ​​a new deck fighter, the mockup of which we've already seen, will come to life. That is why I think that the Su-75 is an aircraft that could be used in the future aviation of Russia.

Nothing against it and it seems the aero profile already allows for STOL operations. But the payload, performance and range of a Su-57 provide the qualitative edge required over carrier-borne US aviation, once the quantity advantage is (overwhelmingly) with them. As the stakes are risen in the confrontation with the West, it will be necessary to protect commercial convoys and face the USN in the high seas, so this is not anymore an imaginary mission but some pressing reality and Russia will need to play their best cards to succeed

I would just add one very important thing to those carriers - nuclear propulsion. Yes, the cost of the ship in that case increases drastically, but if RITM-200 nuclear reactors have already done a good job on nuclear icebreakers of project 22220, then it is to be expected that nuclear reactors RITM-400 (intended for huge nuclear icebreakers of project 10510 Rossiya - the first ship "Rossiya" is under construction) will be quite enough for some future aircraft carriers - if Russia already decides to build them.

One important remark is that PURE nuclear propulsion is very expensive, but combined is not that much. The boost function should be provided by a gas turbine, while economy propulsion on nuclear power is ideal. So the power of the NPP does not need to be oversized and also the fuel for the GT does also not need to steal volume from other necessary supplies onboard, mainly hangar space and fuel for aviation. I believe such a solution will be developed with CONAG propulsion, ideally according to the innovative hull by Krylov and with 60-70 kT displacement, with an electromechanical catapult at the angled deck and ski jump at the bow. That would allow the characteristics required by the VMF without an excessive cost, maybe allowing to build a few carriers instead of single or a couple of units.

Is there any news on the Su57s stealth capabilities? Anything new that we didnt know before?