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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32

    Hole
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32 - Page 16 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #32

    Post  Hole Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:12 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Arch

    Lol your full of shit, We will not sign an INF treaty unless China also signs on. You are taking the remarks out of context. This alone shows how delusional you are thinking.

    Your choice. Russia will simply introduce more missiles, and various types of them, to counter what the US has

    You are also insane if you think we are kicking the Baltics out of NATO and pulling back.

    No-one said anything about kicking anyone out of NATO

    When Russia talks about the 1997 force disposition it's mainly talking about the ABM facilities in Romania and Poland

    Russia wants them gone

    In return Russia will I'm sure be happy to sign that treaty on hypersonic cruise missile development that Washington wants, at least for what concerns submarines and vessels. Then it will cancel its Zirkon program and destroy its stocks

    It will also withdraw its MiG-31Ks from the Crimea, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad as their primary targets won't exist anymore

    Hypersonic weapons are here to stay. Only two of the weapon systems that Russia developed in the last years violated the treaties that were broken by the americans: S-500 and Nudol. All others are fine even if the INF treaty is resurrected.

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:07 pm

    Location of incidents, here the attacks from pro NATO Ukrainian forces.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32 - Page 16 FL0TwYbWYAEIbO7?format=jpg&name=360x360

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32 - Page 16 FL0TqunWYAgrvi6?format=jpg&name=medium

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32 - Page 16 FL0T0imXoAofCqQ?format=jpg&name=360x360

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:17 pm

    British Defence Ministry Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Sorry but it won't load for me.


    [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLzy6CvVQA4yPE2?format=png&name=small[/img]
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    Post  medo Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:26 pm



    Ukrainian president Zelenski finaly cancel Minsk 2 agreement. Russia could now freely recognize LNR and DNR.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:34 pm



    DNR evacuating civilians

    If Russia was intent on recognizing the DNR/LNR, it could do so and simply enter with its army to the contact line, ending the war

    However the fact that the DNR is evacuating civilians means that they are gearing up for fighting. The war will resume from where it left off in 2014.

    Now I understand what Biden meant when he said that sanctions will be softer if Russia only invades 'a bit' of the Ukraine. And him and all the other talking heads predicting Russian invasion tommorow, the day after, or after that, etc..
    He was hoping for exactly Russia recognizing the DNR/LNR and deploying on its territory

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:42 pm

    Well, it may have to do with Ukrainians being Ukrainians and attacking civilians in the border areas.  So it is only making sense to evacuate them and then strengthen their border positions.

    Edit:

    May be fake news that has spread about evaccuation:

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:48 pm

    medo wrote:

    Ukrainian president Zelenski finaly cancel Minsk 2 agreement. Russia could now freely recognize LNR and DNR.

    We will see if true. If true, then Russia will probably just recognize DNR/LNR as their own entities. In other words, they will protect them, they can do it without even invading too.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    medo wrote:

    Ukrainian president Zelenski finaly cancel Minsk 2 agreement. Russia could now freely recognize LNR and DNR.

    We will see if true.  If true, then Russia will probably just recognize DNR/LNR as their own entities.  In other words, they will protect them, they can do it without even invading too.

    No, this is a return to where things left off in 2015

    Kiev will attempt to advance and wipe the rebels out

    The rebels will attempt to advance and establish more people's republics as they do so, recruiting more locals

    The Russian army will not enter until the Kiev regime has fallen and a new one invites it in - at which point it will rush to the Polish and Romanian borders (where the ABM sites are). Similarly to how the SDF invited Russia and the Syrian Arab Army in when the Turks invaded (Russia and the SAA were waiting at the border before then)

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    Post  kvs Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:25 pm

    There is talk of the Kiev regime moving its ministries to Lvov. That seems to indicate that they expect to lose their
    grip on eastern and central Ukraine. It looks like a baiting operation organized by NATzO, but it is rather dramatic.
    The economy of Kiev regime controlled Ukraine is imploding and the LOS shelling theater must be running out of steam
    as a diversionary ploy. The lack of enthusiasm is apparent from the pathetic demonstration attendance.

    It is more than likely that the LDNR forces will be doing the fighting. The regime forces are demoralized and not
    even an army. It is possible that eastern and central Ukraine can be lost by the regime in a cascade of defections
    requiring little fighting.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:32 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    medo wrote:

    Ukrainian president Zelenski finaly cancel Minsk 2 agreement. Russia could now freely recognize LNR and DNR.

    We will see if true.  If true, then Russia will probably just recognize DNR/LNR as their own entities.  In other words, they will protect them, they can do it without even invading too.

    No, this is a return to where things left off in 2015

    Kiev will attempt to advance and wipe the rebels out

    The rebels will attempt to advance and establish more people's republics as they do so, recruiting more locals

    The Russian army will not enter until the Kiev regime has fallen and a new one invites it in - at which point it will rush to the Polish and Romanian borders (where the ABM sites are). Similarly to how the SDF invited Russia and the Syrian Arab Army in when the Turks invaded (Russia and the SAA were waiting at the border before then)

    VKS can get airborne and provide air support similar to how USAF does for SDF

    Once they knockout the Kiev regime, let the Russian army run amok
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    No, this is a return to where things left off in 2015

    Well, as far as I find Jakov Kedmi losing his mind lately, or we see the age coming, I still will agree with him with much pleasure when there is a conclusion.
    Both DNR and LNR armed forces are organized in a corps-like way.
    Those are two assault corpses, made to secure Mariopol and Krematorsk.
    Just after the Russian army will wipe off the 404 orcs from the way.
    Armia osvobaditieli.

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    Post  par far Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:20 pm

    One of things that is being not talked about is that this crisis is pushing the oil prices to $100 per barrel and it is depressing the value of the Ruble.

    There are several very good benefits here for Russia.

    Russia is producing Oil and Gas cheaply, while selling it for US Dollars and Euros.

    This is creating a financial bonanza for Russia.







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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:46 pm

    kvs wrote:There is talk of the Kiev regime moving its ministries to Lvov.   That seems to indicate that they expect to lose their
    grip on eastern and central Ukraine.   It looks like a baiting operation organized by NATzO, but it is rather dramatic.
    The economy of Kiev regime controlled Ukraine is imploding and the LOS shelling theater must be running out of steam
    as a diversionary ploy.   The lack of enthusiasm is apparent from the pathetic demonstration attendance.  

    It is more than likely that the LDNR forces will be doing the fighting.   The regime forces are demoralized and not
    even an army.   It is possible that eastern and central Ukraine can be lost by the regime in a cascade of defections
    requiring little fighting.


    Well put, my thoughts exactly! I was always perplexed (but I chose not to engage in debate) why everyone thought the Novorossiya forces needed Russia to invade to save them?

    My oh my, 7 years have passed and everyone has forgotten the shellacking, 1-sided ass kicking of biblical proportions that the Ukronies were on the receiving end called the 'Debaltsevo Cauldron?' And please don't refer to Debaltsevo as Debalt-sieve, or however you spell it...the only thing that was a 'sieve' at that battle was the Ukronie AFVs allowing DNR/LPR anti-armor weapons to pass through Ukronie armor like water droplets! Ukronie armor welds are like Elmers glue on wet toilet paper! lol1

    For those who still remember the Debaltsevo Cauldron, in what shape or form are the Ukronies better than they were back in 2014/15? Considering all cardinal parameters, they're at least an order of magnitude worse in their current situation now in 2022 than they were back then, and in some cases possibly 2 orders of magnitude.

    Just consider the following:

    1.) DNR/LPR are better organized, better trained, better equipped, employ better strategies, their morale is much higher, and they're even more battle hardened now than they were back then. Their domestic military industries are much better now, and they're local economies are better too, especially because they have access to the large Russian market.

    2.) Meanwhile Pukraine is much, much worse now! They're economy is a open sewer, there's been a 50% reduction in Russian gas passing through their pipes, and they can't rely on DNR/LPR coal anymore! Ukronie force organization is even more garbage, with worse strategy. They're worse equipped because their domestic military industry is nothing more than vaporware and glorified makets. They're morale is in the shitter with mass desertions, and they're now recruiting pregnant women! Let's not forget they're training is straight out of a Monty Python skit!



    Last edited by magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  LMFS Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:In return Russia will I'm sure be happy to sign that treaty on hypersonic cruise missile development that Washington wants, at least for what concerns submarines and vessels. Then it will cancel its Zirkon program and destroy its stocks

    It will also withdraw its MiG-31Ks from the Crimea, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad as their primary targets won't exist anymore

    Seriously... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:51 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:In return Russia will I'm sure be happy to sign that treaty on hypersonic cruise missile development that Washington wants, at least for what concerns submarines and vessels. Then it will cancel its Zirkon program and destroy its stocks

    It will also withdraw its MiG-31Ks from the Crimea, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad as their primary targets won't exist anymore

    Seriously... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

    Not one of his best posts... Rolling Eyes

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    Post  Isos Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:17 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:In return Russia will I'm sure be happy to sign that treaty on hypersonic cruise missile development that Washington wants, at least for what concerns submarines and vessels. Then it will cancel its Zirkon program and destroy its stocks

    It will also withdraw its MiG-31Ks from the Crimea, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad as their primary targets won't exist anymore

    Seriously... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

    Not one of his best posts... Rolling Eyes

    US aren't making any such deal with Russia because China is a greater danger for them than Russia. For that matter I doubt that even Russia would sign such deal with the US and let China have land based 1000-5000km range missiles while they don't.
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    Post  thegopnik Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:22 am

    TMA1 wrote:Hearing rumors of UK and Polish soldiers coming into Ukraine is this true? If not I'll delete my post.

    I don't think polaks feel enthusiastic about supporting a country that openly supports bandera for infamously genociding polish civilians. I think the country just wants russia and Ukraine to kill each other as much as possible but Ukraine has no fighting chance at all.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:10 am

    kvs wrote: The regime forces are demoralized and not
    even an army.   It is possible that eastern and central Ukraine can be lost by the regime in a cascade of defections
    requiring little fighting.

    Possible. But don't count on it.

    The Ukrainian army has been peppered with Nazis here and there, and when it comes to the interior ministry - throughout key positions.

    Many of them know that they will be held accountable for their crimes. They won't be keen to defect. Their subordinates of course might. But loyal elements may keep everyone in check.

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    No, this is a return to where things left off in 2015

    Well, as far as I find Jakov Kedmi losing his mind lately, or we see the age coming, I still will agree with him with much pleasure when there is a conclusion.
    Both DNR and LNR armed forces are organized in a corps-like way.
    Those are two assault corpses, made to secure Mariopol and Krematorsk.
    Just after the Russian army will wipe off the 404 orcs from the way.
    Armia osvobaditieli.

    Na, the Russian army won't be involved until Kiev falls, like I said.

    Whether that will have to wait until the people's republics armies are at the gates of Kiev, or enough of the elite will split and overthrow the regime well before that - is a different question.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  VARGR198 Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:12 am

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:18 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:In return Russia will I'm sure be happy to sign that treaty on hypersonic cruise missile development that Washington wants, at least for what concerns submarines and vessels. Then it will cancel its Zirkon program and destroy its stocks

    It will also withdraw its MiG-31Ks from the Crimea, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad as their primary targets won't exist anymore

    Seriously... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

    Not one of his best posts... Rolling Eyes

    Dunno, makes sense to me

    Putin didn't start the development of those wunderwaffen for no reason. If Moscow's security interests are affirmed, then there is no need to keep Pentagon generals awake at night about a missile that can reach them in 5 minutes when launched from a sub 500-600km from the western seaboard Razz

    But if this Ukraine shit is really going down - so then **** them. They're blowing their chance to make a deal.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:30 am

    Hole wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    That's so fake. No sign of explosion at all. They can do better...

    White helmet tactic. Use a hammer, claim it was a bomb.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:18 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #32 - Page 16 Giphy

    Is this shit starting or what? The back and forth of giving unconditional surrender term extensions from both sides...asking to "reconsider" again and again going on for over a month now is tiresome. The chips are on the board.

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:55 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Dunno, makes sense to me

    Putin didn't start the development of those wunderwaffen for no reason. If Moscow's security interests are affirmed, then there is no need to keep Pentagon generals awake at night about a missile that can reach them in 5 minutes when launched from a sub 500-600km from the western seaboard Razz

    But if this Ukraine shit is really going down - so then **** them. They're blowing their chance to make a deal.

    Gorby signed those missiles away because he had the world's largest and most powerful military even without them and more importantly he didn't have the benefit of hindsight to know that deals with the US are not worth the paper they are written on. Fat chance Putin's going to give away one of his few trump cards for next to nothing. The US has the massive military that they clearly could not afford though, so perhaps they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone and sign that away instead, then they could get their hypersonic deal Twisted Evil

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:46 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Na, the Russian army won't be involved until Kiev falls, like I said.

    .

    Oh they will.
    Just the same way they were back in 2015 Laughing
    Only this time, nobody will pretend that it is not Iskander that hit them Laughing
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:10 am

    Is this shit starting or what?

    We realise the only thing that would make you happy is another war in Europe, but Putin is not an irrational fool like so many western leaders or their allies.

    Despite all the bullshit in the western press aggressive Russia is not keen on expanding the Soviet Union II and also invading countries so they are in their sphere of power.

    Gorbachev was worried about the short warning times of IRBMs in Europe and signed the INF treaty despite giving up SS-20 missiles which gave Russia an enormous advantage at the time because he knew when the US deployed similar systems they would eventually create that would be very destabilising.

    Putin on the other hand doesn't want peace at all costs and now realises the west wont accept Russia as an equal and Russia wont do subservient like the EU and UK do, because if they capitulated it would be at the bottom of the pile below the EU and below the UK and their leader the US and Israel.

    I really don't think Putin will give away Zircon or anything else to the west because going forward they are going to be important not just in Europe but everywhere else.

    The INF treaty didn't cover Zircon which is ship launched and it didn't cover Kinzhal either because it is aircraft launched. The only thing banned by the INF treaty would be ground launched Kalibrs which AFAIK they have not deployed... despite AEGIS Ashore being Tomahawk ready.

    Oh they will.
    Just the same way they were back in 2015 Laughing
    Only this time, nobody will pretend that it is not Iskander that hit them Laughing

    The next logical step for Russia, if the Ukraine has declared the Minsk agreements void, would be to recognise these regions as independent of Kiev... that would allow them to trade and openly support them if they choose in the same way HATO is supporting and arming Kiev.

    Russia probably has a lot of drones they want to test in European conditions and this would be ideal, not to mention new guided and semi guided artillery types... what better test than on nazis?

    The use of drones can warn Ukrainian forces of an attack so only the hardcore get minced.

    The irony of western nazis going to fight for the Ukraine whose oligarchs seem to mostly be jewish, against christian white Russia... but then they couldn't fight for Russia because nazis are scum through and through.

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