Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

I was talking to my Prorussian friend and he thinks Russia's main failure is very bad opsec, the FSB being incompetent and most importantly there being traitors in the Russian armed forces who disclose Russian troop movements to western intelligence who then relay them to Ukraine, allowing them to stage ambushes.

He believes that FSB is terrible because it hasn't rooted out these traitors before the operation, but in the end this Opera tion is a positive development because it's exposing the activities of those antirussian traitors allowing them to be located and dealt with.

What do you think? Has the FSB dropped the ball? What can Russia do to prevent Ukrainians from knowing where Russian troops are?

flamming_python wrote:

DerWolf wrote:I read somewhere Russia trying to create  Kherson' s republic. Anyone heard something about it?

That was a Ukrainian claim

I'd wait for proof first. I don't see the point in such a republic, it wouldn't have any popular support.

I don't think Russia military and government ,after all the consequences and sacrifices they had to endure , in russian lives and sanctions to pacify ukraine ,they will allow kiev to ever have any control over the zones they were targeting with artillery for 8 years and neither will allow odessa to ever fall under control of kiev in another coup in kiev ,after NATO install another nazi puppet.  that will be an insult to their military after their human losses and economic losses , since they were forced to invade.

What is more than likely to happen , is that ukraine will be federalized divided in fully autonomous republics ,where every major region of ukraine ,will have their own national guard and police and kiev will have no authority over its politics or security..  because the ukraine army will be defeated , then russia will set the terms , for their inconditionnal surrender.  So you will have the lugansk republic , the donetsk republic , the kerson republic controlling from dnieper rive exit to the north ,
then odessa republic , from coast to the north all the way to transnistria.. then kiev republic region ,and lvov another republic.  so ukraine spilit in 10 federalzed republics , similar to united states , but
where kiev will significantly lose power to control them.. so it will be like a lose alliance of cities only for the sake of keeping the european union away from capturing any part of ukraine.

Marks my words ukraine will be split in many parts ,similar to what soviet union did to the russian empire . split it in many parts , but with major decentralization of power. and russia military will have several military bases permanently in ukraine forever near the borders of romania ,moldova and hungary , to keep control of ukraine borders with europe.  this is what i will have done in putin shoes.. it will be a mistake to after conquering all ukraine and losing 10k to 30k soldiers , to allow later the european union to organize another civil war , armed by nato again.  

so for guarantee that ukraine will not rebel again ,as it did in 2014 ,ukraine needs to be
1)100% disarmed from any nato and lethal military grade weapon .
2) denazified , all nazis parties declared terrorist organizations and offers major rewards for information for their arrest, to have them in the run to europe.
3)ukraine will need to be split in many parts ,the more the better ,with fully autonomous zones ,
using the russian caucasus model.  so if for example kiev start a rebellion as they did in 2014 ,then they will be encircle by other republics.. similar to what happened to chechenia.. that after chechen rebels captured the whole city ,they saw they were encircle and had no place to move ,no control over their airspace or no way to develop without a land connection to any western country.
4)cancelation of the ukraine nazi constitution ,banning nazism and nato from the country. russian language and pro russian parties return again. with a puppet government in kiev.
5)television , media , internet all regulated , no EU media allowed in ukraine.
6)nato embassies potentially removed from ukraine ,that have been used as centers or recruitment of opposition.

after than , i predict up to half of the young people in ukraine will move to europe , lured by the west so they brainwashed so they can continue causing problems , but russia will be prepared to use strong hand against the violence , will not allow protesters to do ,what they did in kiev in 2014. Over time the euromaidanites movement will die , because they will see europe is becoming a dictatorship ,much worse than russia. specially with this mandatory vaccines.. and nazis will wish they never left ukraine ,after they discover the nasty surprises that exist in those western fake vaccines experiments.

Melitopol under its new head Vladimir Rogov:

* Debt jubilee
* Gas/utilities prices lowered to Russian levels
* Temp tax holiday
* Russian market opened to farmers
* Local militia to support Rosgvardiya

Technically Russia doesn't need to stay behind,
It is creating a new elite and governing system as we speak and the New leadership will be supported by the Kremlin,

Of course nation building of United States was understood and studied by Russia

And the negatives experience by US during nation building attempts in the Russia itself, totally disregarding failed attempt in Latin America, Asia, Africa, and the middle east, showed that the Americans whenever tried to build a new state system under management of US leaders, always failed to take into account the historical and cultural realities of the cultures, religions, familial relations and other such subtleties which marked the identity of the people in such land. This is why Soviet Afghanistan held longer than US Afghanistan, and in fact it would have lasted longer if it had not been for the disregard of the pashtuns.

The reality is , neoNazi Ukraine was never a viable state that is why banderites had to hold it together at the barrel of a gun.

For Russia, reverting Ukraine to its original design, is a matter of respecting the cultural, religious, ethnic, history of the people in those lands

So to create the Melitopol region, donbass region, lughansk region, Chernigov region, Kharkov region, Zaporyzhya region, kherson region and so on is matter of respecting state history

Ensure economic order, ensure viable government and stability , strengthen the ethnic identity (like chechnya), and weave the fabric of the new social strata so that Moscow has leverage over the new leaders of the republics

Everyone has to remember , Russia has been in these situations as before. Russia must create a new order, instead of a internal revolution shaping Russia, Russia must shape and dictate the events around it.

It is similar to the supra national building of the USSR , but without revolution. Also, history may rhyme, but it's never the same.

Russia is creating a supranational body, EEU and will be represented by this bloc. Russia is done with the era of local or regional politics. It must rise to the level of world politics. This includes a new economic system as well, a new relationship system between EEU states, and implementing a new concept for global security.

As US operates through NATO, europeans act as the EU, and China through BRI, SCO, and ASEAN,

Russia must create its own supranational system, so that it is not junior partner to any other bloc, Ukraine is the test, to build a functioning regional level state , and incorporate it into the supranational body EEU

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

DerWolf wrote:If Ukraine accepts the Russian conditions of neutrality, do u think Russia with completely withdraw from Ukraine?

I think so

No point in it staying

Unbelievable naivete.  Russia isn't about to go to war to dismantle the filthy Banderite regime and then just hand 404 nation back to them after the fighting stops.  Banderites and their hateful ideology are a lethal virus and it will take a long term treatment plan to heal the patient fully and prevent any chance of a relapse.

Long-term treatment plan is an agreement with their elites

Nothing else

Big_Gazza wrote:
Not a chance. New Ukropistan, in whatever form it will take, will be wearing L-plates for a decade and there will be plenty of East Ukrainian forces to compel a good level of compliance to the new realities.  East Ukrainians hate the far right nationalists with a passion, and they will do the bulk of the work in guarding against any resurgence of Nazism or US/NATOstani influence.  I don't expect Russia will need much of an "occupation" force when they simply need to enable the Russian ethnic loyalists to protect their own people and interests.

That will still require a fair long occupation and "state-building" to facilitate that. If Russia withdraws too soon any loyal and convienient administration made of 'locals' would just not take.
So we are in this for a long time...

I only worry about financial side of things.
All the blown up shit - buildings, bridges, industry, whole cities, will be repaired on our dime. Chechnia and Crimea already took a hard felt effort. To add all what we reduced to rubble in Ukraine and yet will before it ends - is just too much.
And of course there will be no lines of creditors and investors from benevolent West... maybe Chinese, but they are not into shit investments.

This, not the shitty sanctions, will be the real consequence and burden.
But in 20 years there will be Ukraininas rolling shoulder to shoulder with us yet somewhere again, like Chechens are right now.
And that, really, makes anyone Russian. So it is our gain.

Russia does not need to absorb liberated "Ukraine" to bring it back to health. If it can prevent Banderite infiltration and provide cheap
energy and open up trade, then the local economy will develop. This is important since the people need to be invested in their recovery.
It cannot be a welfare leech farm. But by no means should Russia pander to world "opinion" and some meaningless international "law".
The west exerts control and set the rules of the game. Playing by fictional rules (democracy and self-determination) is guaranteed
failure. Russia has already taken on the consequences for its "invasion". Pulling back will not restore anything.

The thing is a federalized Ukraine still represents a lucrative asset to the EEU

At a supranational level, the integration of economically productive Ukraine will be huge boost to the potential of Russian Supranational project

Russia has to create a new economic order, and Ukraine is a test of the capabilities of Russia at the global governance level

Gazza you are right to highlight Russian experience in Chechnya.

Ukraine is not so foreign in this regard. It is the same religious, ethnic, linguistic, and cultural level.

So digesting Ukraine is not hard.

It's just the economic output of these states needs to be plugged into Russia and Russia must then turn this output into a finished product and export it back to the regional centers

It is a state building effort, not just of Ukraine but of the EEU level

Big_Gazza wrote:
Unlike Chechnya (and Crimea to a large extent) Ukraine has resources that can be harnessed to empower her resurgence. High quality anthracite coal, minerals, agriculture etc.  She still has some industrial assets that are worth saving, as long as they are now redirected to supporting the broader Russian industry and MIC. Western big-agri corporate investments need to be seized and nationalised without compensation (easy to do now that the west has gone nuclear with their sanctions), and the markets reconfigured to target Russia's friends to the east and the global south.  

Fck the US and their Euro-faggot cock-holsters and whatever these clowns might think or say. Their "investments" ie carpet-baggery and the whole-sale theft of Ukrainian national assets and resources in exchange for gross enrichment of its corrupt elites, are now forfeit.

Chechnia has a bit of oil and tourist potential.

And we are of very different opinions on state of Ukrainian industry.
I adhere to one that states it is in an abysmal shit. Even before invasion, when infrastructure quickly goes down the same direction at the rate bridges and roads get blown up (not by us), and all objects of MIC get calibrated like no tommorrow (by us).
Investment it will require to just fix the damage, and then - to bring it up the proper level, will be enourmous.

[Ria Novosti] Kadyrov commented on reports of his possible stay in Ukraine

Your intelligence is lame... In the video we are in Gostomel. The other day we were
about 20 kilometers from you, Kiev Nazis, and at the moment even closer, and guess
how close we got?"
...
He also added that the SBU intelligence does not know how to work, as foreign instructors
and military advisers teach according to outdated methods. "We will actually show you that
Russian practice teaches war better than foreign theory and the recommendations of military
advisers. Or maybe we are already in Kiev and are just waiting for the right command?"
Kadyrov concluded.

https://ria-ru.translate.goog/20220314/mestonakhozhdenie-1777977594.html?rcmd_alg=slotter&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Ukrainian industry, is in a state of shit, but it can and will be rebuilt

Antonov can be integrated into UAC

Zorya Mashproekt into USC

Conglomerate corporations can go into Ukraine and finance the rebuilding of the industrial sector

With proper credit disbursement (printing) of the Ruble minting and printing press, financing at low interest rates can be provided

This credit can be used to update the industrial sectors of Ukraine to begin to produce polymer wings , electronics and other components to UAC projects

Zorya mashproekt can produce new diesel engines for USC for projects of the MOD

Agriculturally, Ukraine can contribute to relief from inflationary pressures on food by increasing the food supply and availability to EEU.

Yusmazh should be integrated into the space complex as well

All the best laid plans for Ukraine will be completed because it is a must

Big_Gazza wrote:

limb wrote:I was talking to my Prorussian friend and he thinks Russia's main failure is very bad opsec, the FSB being incompetent and most importantly there being traitors in the Russian armed forces who disclose Russian troop movements to western intelligence who then relay them to Ukraine, allowing them to stage ambushes.

He believes that FSB is terrible because it hasn't rooted out these traitors before the operation, but in the end this Opera tion is a positive development because it's exposing the activities of those antirussian traitors allowing them to be located and dealt with.

What do you think? Has the FSB dropped the ball? What can Russia do to prevent Ukrainians from knowing where Russian troops are?

I'll tell you what I think.  You need to stop talking shit.

Seriously?  Who fcking cares what average joe shmo thinks or says?  Russians pulled Syria out of the regime-change fire, yet there are legions of ignorant  fuckwitz out there that think the Ruskies are incompetent or their ranks are filled with "traitors"???

Pfftt...  

Ukronazis cannot ambush without knowing exatly where russian columns are driving, especially if they lack vehicles to move quickly around the battlefield. Same with aircraft. Without treason, theres no way in hell ukrainian buks can know exactly where to be in order to be in range to successfully destroy SU-34s and Su-25s. Not even NATO radar intell can be able to update constantly the position of russian aircraft and armored columns like that. Like it or not, there must be traitors telling the ukrainian forces when and where to prepare.

Yes but integration of Ukraine needs to happen at the local/ regional level

So each of these republics need to be cutoff from each other and integrated into Moscow directly

It's like Chechnya , the federal center dealt with Chechnya directly.

It will be the same with federalized Ukraine

When you deal with a balkanized state , it is must easier to proceed with integration,

Ukraine can be reconstituted at the supranational level at a later point

For now it is digestible only in balkanized format

So independent republics, with economic relations directly to Moscow , and a system of leadership of domestic Ukrainians with Pro Russian views must be established

Mayor's and Governors and even councils must be strictly pro Russian

Victory day and the eternal flame, and return to soviet traditions is necessary

Re education of the youth and showing Ukraine its true success during Soviet Ukraine

This will be implemented by Moscow at the federal level, the conceptualization of modern Ukraine has already been established, now the implementation is occurring

Arkanghelsk wrote:Yes but integration of Ukraine needs to happen at the local/ regional level

So each of these republics need to be cutoff from each other and integrated into Moscow directly

It's like Chechnya , the federal center dealt with Chechnya directly.

It will be the same with federalized Ukraine

When you deal with a balkanized state , it is must easier to proceed with integration,

Ukraine can be reconstituted at the supranational level at a later point

For now it is digestible only in balkanized format

So independent republics, with economic relations directly to Moscow , and a system of leadership of domestic Ukrainians with Pro Russian views must be established

Mayor's and Governors and even councils must be strictly pro Russian

Victory day and the eternal flame, and return to soviet traditions is necessary

Re education of the youth and showing Ukraine its true success during Soviet Ukraine

This will be implemented by Moscow at the federal level, the conceptualization of modern Ukraine has already been established, now the implementation is occurring

This sounds like a plan that will be rejected by the Ukrainian people even in just the south and east of the country

Actually every plan would be at this point

What should have happened is that the project of an alternate Ukraine and government should have been publicly declared and formed out of the DNR and LNR, prior to their recognition.

At this point I don't see any alternative but peace talks, with limited conditions - i.e. just recognition of the Crimea and DNR/LNR.

I suspect any such peace will be more of a temporary armistice more than anything else, so after such an armistice there should be a co-ordinated mass movement to pressure the governments in both Russia and the Ukraine, as neither is acceptable to the other and neither serves both people's interests.

Ukrainian people are not the ones making the decision

Only Victor declares the conditions

So Moscow will impose federalization on Ukraine

Ukrainian people are not factored into the decision, the beauties will have to live with it

Russia will integrate balkanized Ukraine to the EEU

What you see in melitopol willbe repeated all over the country

The state building process takes at minimum 5 to 10 years

So Russia will build modern Ukraine according to achievable timeline

Whole Russian army is not necessary, only local militias and advisors from Moscow

wow.. look at this picture..  

What was US doing in ukraine , it was infested with bio weapons labs everywhere..






Anyone that thinks that this was done by just scientific noble reasons , is out of touch with reality.
they virtually transformed Ukraine into a mine field of biological weapons..  this is plain criminal
what they were doing there , how can any nation not see criminal intent in this bio labs?

this is a huge major threat to russia , how could russia allow this thing to grow so much is beyond me.  This is what i call a cassus belli for war ..   i don't thin any NATO nation will allow so many bio weapons labs with so many dangerous viruses in one of the world most politically unstable nations .
US was planning to transform Ukraine into a time bomb of biological and radioactive weapons.
unbelievable the silence of the European union if this images confirm ,what US was doing in ukraine.

https://sputniknews.com/20220312/whats-behind-washingtons-denial-of-biowarfare-weapons-programme-in-ukraine-1093810839.html

if this is not a provocation for war , then what is a provocation then?  this is worse that have a dozen of hiroshima atomic bombs in ukraine ,you could get sick millions of people or provoke a second pandemic with this biolabs.  US literary use bioweapons labs as "mines" to deter russian army from invading ukraine.  will be interesting to know if there was any bio weapon attack on russian soldiers.
don't think the russian military will admit something like that ,for prevent panic.

this ukraine conflict could very well provoke a world war 3 , if those labs start unleashing viruses and create a major epidemy of many viruses in ukraine and later the west blame russia for it.

Still anyone have doubts this biolabs are not a casus belli for declaration of war ?

all this kiev politicians , need to be bring to a new international court of crimes against humanity.
russia can't allow a single inch of territory in ukraine disarmed and those labs shut down and investigate what was they really doing there.

Russia need to create an international world conference and show this findings ,make this information go viral world wide , so the world know what was US military really doing in ukraine , this is criminal ,
beyond reason , building so many bio labs in so unstable nation ,  will have been no different to do this in afghanistan..  with so many lethal weapons on the streets in the hands of gangs.. could easily
take control of any viruses of this labs ,and get rid of any security.

US was preparing to attack russia with biological weapons , according to russia military ,they were testing ways to create viruses ,that only target the slavic race.     this is mind blowing information , hopefully russia will properly keep awareness of this in the world ,so that the world knows the criminal activities of ukraine , and the silence of NATO and europe about this.

if this is not a casus belli for war .. then no idea what is.. this invasion had to be done much earlier.


even US law proffessor and CIA analyst condemn this actions of the pentagon in ukraine.
they fall short of declaring the pentagon as terrorist..

Judging from the incoming reports, it appears that the US carried out bio warfare programmes in Ukraine in violation of the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) and the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 (BWATA), according to Francis Boyle, a professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law, who drafted BWATA and has been fighting against the spread of bioweapons since 1983.
"These bio warfare labs in Ukraine are offensive biological warfare weapons labs that have been set up by the Pentagon to research, develop, test biological weapons", says Boyle. "Yes, that is true. This is what is going on… It violates the BWC and all American citizens who were involved in any of these biological warfare labs in Ukraine violated my Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 that provides for life in prison. And if you take a look at these biological warfare labs, they have surrounded Russia in different countries there with these offensive biological warfare weapons labs. They have nothing to do with scientific research. This is run by the Pentagon. The Pentagon is interested in warfare and killing people, it's that simple".

All bioweapons centres in Ukraine have to be secured and decontaminated by Russian professional experts on biological weapons and then rendered permanently inoperable so that they can never be used again for any reason, according to the professor.
Boyle noted that American neoconservatives, an influential political group Victoria Nuland is tied with, had long flirted with the idea of biological warfare weapons which could target specific genotypes and be used as a "politically useful tool". According to Boyle, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a US major neocon think tank, openly discussed that in their manifesto "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (2000), cited by the academic in his book "Biowarfare and Terrorism" (2005).
"There is no moral or national security justification for this kind of project", says former CIA analyst Larry Johnson, while commenting on the suspected US biowarfare programme in Ukraine. "This now explains, at least to me, why the United States was so insistent on provoking this war with Russia. Covering up a bioweapons program is almost impossible. My country is proving to be an international outlaw"

still anyone question the need for russia to invade ukraine?
this had to be done much earlier , if russia knew this , then the invasion should have happened in 2014. This is horrible provocation... basically the pentagon was using this dozens of bio labs as
deterrence against russia ,so they don't invade , but also as offensive weapons too , because if don't invade ,more bio labs will be made , but also nuclear weapons.. if this is not criminal act of war on russia , then what is? this is truly criminal provocation and the fact that europe have stay silent about this is criminal complicity.

they can infest hundred of civilian with different virus in ukraine without them knowing and later sent to russia to different cities so they spread the virus in others. this could explain the rare viruses epidemy that show at siberia at times.. of anthrax. No doubt that washington dc ,planned to destroy russia with biological weapons.. still anyone question that covid19 was a biological weapon? even the us congress told US was funding the modification of viruses in to make them more dangerous.