Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

Big_Gazza wrote:

andalusia wrote:I guess I am susceptible to US news media but the Javelin is having success does Russia have a fire and forget missile similar to the Javelin?

Yeah sure.  Javelin was touted as a Murkan Wunderwaffe that would annihilate the primitive Moskal armor and send the mongoloids running back to their mud-huts in time to receive the all-conquering Ukrainian military as it liberates Moscow...     but instead it has proved to be another Fail-35 or Zumwalt - an over-priced under-performing POS that the ukro orcs have complained bitterly about  Too heavy, too bulky, too long to setup, too much hassle with cooled seekers, not suitable for use in real combat conditions etc etc

Murkans will LIE about javelin to secure sales, a lot like how the Patriot intercepted every Iraqi Scud it was fired at....

. I am completely shocked that this information is being kept hidden from the American people. What you are saying I have never heard. Since you live outside the U S , are we really in the dark from a news standpoint?

04/13/2022
Российская газета

Ukrainian self-propelled guns hidden during the retreat were found in the LPR





Ukrainian armed formations are increasingly simply abandoning their heavy military equipment. So, in the Starobelsky district of the Luhansk People's Republic, prosecutors found a 152-mm self-propelled artillery mount 2S3 "Akatsiya".

Information about this discovery was published by the press service of the General Prosecutor's Office of the LPR. The crew of self-propelled guns number 126 tried to disguise the combat vehicle with pine branches, but then, for some unknown reason, left it and fled. Information about this discovery was published by the press service of the General Prosecutor's Office of the LPR. The crew of self-propelled guns number 126 tried to disguise the combat vehicle with pine branches, but then, for some unknown reason, left it and fled.

"Akatsiyas" are currently one of the most massive self-propelled guns in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but recently they can not be seen too often.

It is known that in 1991 there were more than half a thousand of these 152-mm howitzers in the three military districts located on the territory of Ukraine. Over time, some of them were sold to foreign armies, some were decommissioned.

By the time the Ukrainian punitive operation in Donbass began in 2014, the troops had about two hundred self-propelled guns. Several batteries were destroyed by the militias of the people's republics. Another part of the 2S3 was blown up by the crews themselves during the retreat. The whole division was captured in good condition.

By the beginning of this year, 249 such installations remained in artillery units. True, a significant part of them have never been properly repaired for more than three decades, and problems with the serviceability of equipment regularly arise.
Therefore, the command of the nationalists so wants to get foreign self-propelled guns, like the British AS-90, the Slovak Zuzana or the German Panzerhaubitze 2000.

https://vpk.name/news/594642_spryatannuyu_pri_otstuplenii_ukrainskuyu_sau_nashli_v_lnr.html

04/13/2022
Российская газета

The Kalibr missiles became the most productive during the military special operation



The Kalibr / Caliber high-precision missiles have objectively become the most productive during the military special operation in Ukraine.
The Ministry of Defense has published a video footage of a salvo launch of "Caliber" at the facilities of the armed forces of Ukraine from one of the frigates of the Black Sea Fleet. The launch was made by four rockets. Such volleys occur regularly, causing significant damage to the enemy. For example, at a briefing on Monday, it was officially announced: “On Sunday, April 10, high-precision sea-based Caliber missiles on the southern outskirts of the city of Dnepropetrovsk destroyed equipment of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile battalion hidden in the hangar, supplied to the Kiev regime of one of the European countries. including four S-300 launchers and up to 25 personnel of the Ukrainian armed forces."

Let's remember how Kalibr was created and what it is capable of.

Work on their cruise missiles began in the USSR in the late 1970s, in parallel with the development of cruise Tomahawks in the United States. Several defense design bureaus worked in this direction.

Kalibr was designed in Sverdlovsk, at the Novator Design Bureau. By the early 1990s, the cruise missile was ready for production. But the Union collapsed and funding for the defense industries actually stopped. In the West, they probably rubbed their hands quite enough, considering that the Russians would no longer be able to make an analogue of the "Tomahawk".

But work on the Caliber did not stop. Using new technologies and new materials, the designers of the Yekaterinburg "Innovator" have created missiles that have surpassed the "Tomahawks" of even the latest modifications.

On September 17, 2012, successful test launches of KRBD 3M14 missiles of the Caliber-NK complex from the Dagestan ship from the Caspian Sea were carried out. The abbreviation CRBD means long-range shipborne missile.

Unlike the subsonic "Tomahawk", our "Caliber" can fly in a wide range of speeds from subsonic to three times the speed of sound. At the same time, the hit accuracy, which is the same at a distance of 300 km, which is the same at 2500 km. As the developers say: in a peg. Experts believe that Caliber is several times more effective than Tomahawk. The following published characteristic testifies to its power: to destroy a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, three hits from Caliber missiles equipped with a conventional high-explosive warhead are enough.

The onboard control complex for all missiles is built on the basis of an autonomous inertial navigation system. Guidance on the final section of the trajectory is carried out with the help of noise-protected active radar homing heads.

Missiles are capable of overcoming any anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses. The flight takes place at an altitude of 50 to 150 meters, when approaching the target, the missile drops to twenty meters and strikes, which cannot be prevented. The implementation of the so-called slides is also envisaged. In front of the target, usually ground, the rocket soars up and dives vertically on the object, reaching hypersonic speed upon impact. The flight of missiles is carried out along a complex trajectory with a change in altitude and direction of movement. This gives the "Caliber" the ability to approach the target from any direction unexpected for the enemy.

The "Caliber" missiles can fly in a wide range of speeds from subsonic to three times the speed of sound

The premiere benefit performance of these missiles took place on October 7, 2015, which came as a shock to the West, primarily to the United States - after all, only they could afford to fire Tomahawks at their imaginary enemies from a safe distance of thousands of kilometers.

On that day, four ships of the Caspian Flotilla fired a volley of 3M14 long-range cruise missiles of the Kalibr-NK complex. Shooting was carried out from the southwestern part of the Caspian Sea. 26 launches were carried out towards Syria. All missiles hit the targets designated by him - various bases and fortified areas of Islamic terrorists, completely destroying them.

Now "Caliber" without a miss hit point, well-fortified and camouflaged objects of the armed forces of Ukraine.


Expert opinion

Armed Forces of Ukraine switched to terrorist tactics

Alexey Leonkov, military expert:

The Ukrainian army actively uses NATO tactics in the course of hostilities with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. This is explained simply. All strategic direction of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is planned and carried out at NATO Headquarters in Brussels. The officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are only the executors of the strategy that the North Atlantic bloc is developing for them. The strategic plan laid down for the Armed Forces of Ukraine before the operation in Donbas was to wear down Russian troops in offensive operations. From the point of view of NATO strategists, our army should have been bogged down in exhausting battles for a long time in the course of breaking into the fortified defensive positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass. The concept of network-centric wars was taken as the basis for this tactic. They assumed that our troops would only attack from the Donbass. Throughout the territory through which the alleged Russian offensive was to take place, a huge number of depots of weapons, military equipment and fuel were created. The Ukrainian army would retreat to prepared positions and immediately replenish its kit. The Russian troops, in turn, would face the complex logistics of transporting ammunition, military equipment and fuel and lubricants. This, given the rate of expenditure of shells in one day, would make this task quite costly.

The second tactic is the creation of fortress cities along the way of our army, where civilians would be a "human shield". They will continue to use this tactic in the future, knowing the main message of the Russian Ministry of Defense that the Russian army is not at war with the ordinary population of Ukraine.

In turn, Russian tactics involves several phases. The first is the creation of a land corridor from Donbass to Crimea. This was, first of all, to ensure the prompt transfer of troops from the peninsula to the LPR and the DPR, as well as to ensure the delivery of goods, both humanitarian and military. In addition, the tasks of the first phase included the unblocking of the North Crimean Canal, as well as taking control of the Kherson region in order to avoid attacks on the Crimea. Also, the tasks of the first phase included the strategy of introducing Russian troops on the widest possible front - from Odessa to Chernigov. This was necessary in order to tie up the reserves of the Ukrainian army and prevent the operational transfer of units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to the DPR and LPR. On the one hand, this tactic confused the plans of the NATO and Ukrainian leadership, which expected a strike from only one direction. Thanks to this tactic, the entire system of weapons and fuel depots in the Donbass was opened. The Armed Forces of Ukraine, not being able to bring weapons and equipment to the combat zone from other regions, are forced to use what is at hand. Our reconnaissance monitors this, then strikes with precision weapons, thereby bleeding the enemy. That is, troops are not concentrated in one place, but battalion tactical groups are created, which include all types of weapons. Such groups are more mobile, can quickly move to given areas, and also quickly disperse in the event of a supposed strike. Many tactical elements were transferred to Ukraine from the experience of military operations in Syria. As you know, American instructors also commanded there, so you should not be surprised. In particular, now the Armed Forces of Ukraine are also switching to the tactics of reconnaissance and sabotage groups, which move in off-road vehicles with mortars or heavy machine guns mounted on them. This tactic is primarily based on the use of intelligence. NATO provides such teams with space intelligence data. The group goes to a certain point, where, according to intelligence, there is the least activity, strikes. Then he immediately moves to a safe place. This tactic is called "thousands of injections." It is clear that nomadic mortars do not pose a serious danger to a serious military group. However, such a disturbing fire keeps the troops in constant tension. Our army learned to counteract these tactics back in Syria.
Here, the actions of our reconnaissance units come to the fore. They must identify the places to which such groups go to replenish supplies and fuel, and then adjust the fire on them.

https://vpk.name/news/594444_rakety_kalibr_stali_samymi_rezultativnymi_pri_provedenii_voennoi_specoperacii.html

andalusia wrote:Why is the Russian t 72B3 tank performing so poorly? It was thought that the Russian version was better than the export version for instance in 1991 Persian Gulf War.  Are these tanks simply outdated? Moreover, why is the Ukrainian T 64 doing better?

Romesha explained that Russian T-72  tank like the ones seen crossing Ukraine’s borders, store their ammo inside and underneath the tank’s turret. So when an armor-piercing round like the Javelin ignites the stored ammo via its own warhead, the turret will go flying

As with any tank the T-72 is not invincible. The latest Russian T-72 variants have a much better gun than any T-64 can hope to have. They can fire Svinets-1 or later rounds. The latest Ukrainian T-64 tanks might have better thermal sights than the Russian T-72.

The T-72B3 still has issues with lower quality thermal sights (second generation) and other gizmos. The Ukrainian T-64BV mod. 2017 actually has third generation thermals along with digital map and battlefield coordination suite. It also has encrypted digital radio. Those were provided to them by NATO. The upgrades were done at the factories in Kharkov and Lvov. Those sensors and digital systems are likely better than what even the T-72B3 mod. 2016 has.

However in actual combat practice I am not seeing what you are. Considering the fact that the Russians are the ones on the offensive, and that tanks on the offensive typically have more issues with mechanical breakdowns and the like than tanks on the defense, I think the T-72 is proving better than the T-64 even when with a disadvantage in terms of sensors and electronics.

Oh and David Axe is a notorious hack who does not have a clue about military hardware and just concocts stories out of thin air. I would not take anything he says into consideration.

Hole wrote:
Which NATO country did provide this?  

I nearly bought a deactivated one a few years ago but only thing put the stoppers on was the cost to ship it. Weight was 65kg+ Inc packaging. I remember reading that once filled with water its weight went up to 67.6kg that's a heavy medium machine gun to carry/push around. Probably still useful for defensive positions but it also shows how desperate they have become using Maxim 1910 machine guns.

d_taddei2 wrote:

Hole wrote:
Which NATO country did provide this?  

I nearly bought a deactivated one a few years ago but only thing put the stoppers on was the cost to ship it. Weight was 65kg+ Inc packaging. I remember reading that once filled with water its weight went up to 67.6kg that's a heavy medium machine gun to carry/push around. Probably still useful for defensive positions but it also shows how desperate they have become using Maxim 1910 machine guns.

Fighters from Banderistan are going to fight the Russians with the weapons system from the time of the Russian Empire. What an irony ..

Podlodka77 wrote:04/13/2022 Вестник Мордовии

Leopard 1 will fight the T-72 in Ukraine, like the Panzer III against the T-34-85

Germany can supply the Ukrainian Armed Forces with fifty old Leopard 1s. According to Handelsblatt, after the approval of this deal by the government, such armored vehicles may be in Ukraine in 42 days.

True, according to "RG: Russian Weapons", representatives of nationalist formations should not be particularly happy. These tanks were taken out of service in 2010 due to obsolescence.

They have very weak armor protection. Therefore, even not the most modern anti-tank missiles will easily hit them, not to mention the Kornets and Ataks.

They are inferior to all Russian tanks in service, even those that have not undergone modernization. It's like comparing a World War II Panzer III to a Soviet T-34-85. It is clear which side has the advantage.

Therefore, they will surely be turned into flaming scrap metal within a very short time. If, of course, these deliveries take place and Leopard 1 still gets into a "hot spot", then, like 80 years ago, our fighters on the T-72, T-80 and T-90 will be able to destroy German tanks. The same fate awaits the Nazis, who decide to fight them.

https://vpk.name/news/594493_leopard_1_budut_voevat_s_t-72_na_ukraine_kak_panzer_iii_protiv_t-34-85.html?new#new

Depending on how old the leopard 1's are they will either have the 105mm or 120mm gun both used fairly old ammo leopard 1's are pretty much T-55 or T-62 equivalent. Although any upgraded Ukrainian T-62 caught by Donbass troops will be far better and have ability to fire Bastion ATGW.

I find it funny zelensky and his generals stated don't send us old Soviet equipment, so Europe sends old European equipment instead I think zelensky a d his generals thought they would be getting Leopard 2 & Leclerc tanks I wonder if the French with send AMX-10P IFV and AMX-30 tanks which if I remember have a 105mm gun and oddly enough a 20mm cannon along with the usual 7.62mm on tanks. The marder isn't that bad IFV, although it's 20mm cannon will be lacking firepower. Especially when compared to Russian BMP-2 and BTR-82, even BMP-1 73mm gun will be finding a good use against buildings.

Big_Gazza wrote:

andalusia wrote:I am completely shocked that this information is being kept hidden from the American people.  What you are saying I have never heard. Since  you live outside the U S , are we really in the dark from a news standpoint?

I'm in Australia, and our feckless corporate MSM is just as corrupt and useless as in the US or their Eurotrash satrapies.

Yes, javelin has proved to be a MASSIVE disappointment to the US, and the Ukies are sledging it as next to useless.  Claims to the contrary are just US propaganda (sponsored by US MIC).  Most of the relatively few Russian MBT losses seem to be due to artillery, the one area where the Ukies seem to be quote competent (due to their use of Soviet legacy equipment).

If you wonder about the veracity of US media in issues regarding war, ask yourself how accurate they were regarding the situation in Afghanistan, where the corrupt quisling puppet regime was unable to survive and collapsed even before the last US troops were pulled out  Or their nonsense about Russia getting stuck in quagmire in Syria in a failed effort to support a "doomed totalitarian regime"

Reality speaks for itself

The indigenous Stuhna-P anti-tank missile system proved much more of a sticky problem for the Russians, but you won't see any free PR about this in the Western MSM.

Tanks with no APS facing odern atgm are weak tanks on the battlefield. Not useless but very easy to kill.

European and US, as well as other tanks, are no better in terms of protection against modern threats.

Only Merkava with Trohy proved to be able to survive atgm hit. But even then with good tactics you can still destroy it.

Only some area of the front of tanks are enough armoured to sustain a hit. 90% of the tank will be like butter for atgm.

VOLOGDA, 13 April. /TASS/.

The commander of the reconnaissance company of the Airborne Forces was posthumously awarded the title of Hero of Russia for courage during the SVO


The title of Hero of Russia was posthumously awarded to the commander of the reconnaissance company of the Airborne Forces, a resident of the Vologda region Vladimir Zozulin for courage and heroism shown during a special military operation in Ukraine, said the governor of the Vologda region Oleg Kuvshinnikov.

“Vladimir Zozulin, a graduate of the Borisov secondary school in the Babaevsky district of the Vologda region, was awarded the title of Hero of Russia. The corresponding decree was signed on March 31 by President Vladimir Putin <…>. The reconnaissance company commander died heroically in battle on March 12, protecting his comrades during a special military operation in Ukraine. The valiant paratrooper remained faithful to his duty, military oath and officer honor to the end. He was buried with military honors in the Ivanovo region," Kuvshinnikov said in his Telegram channel.

According to the head of the region, Guards Senior Lieutenant Zozulin was born in the Baltic States, but spent all his childhood and youth in the Vologda Oblast. In 2008, he graduated from high school in the village of Borisovo-Sudskoye and firmly decided to become a career officer. He studied at the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School, then served in the 98th Guards Airborne Division of the Airborne Forces. Twice participated in the Victory Parade on Red Square.

The situation on the line of contact in Donbass escalated on February 17. In the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, they reported the most intense shelling from Ukraine in recent months. On February 21, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the recognition of the sovereignty of the DNR and LNR. Russia recognized the republics in accordance with the constitutions of the DPR and LPR within the borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions at the beginning of 2014. On February 24, Putin, in response to the request of the leaders of the Donbass republics for help, announced a special military operation in Ukraine, the purpose of which is to denazify and demilitarize the country.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14367853

d_taddei2 wrote:[

Depending on how old the leopard 1's are they will either have the 105mm or 120mm gun both used fairly old ammo leopard 1's are pretty much T-55 or T-62 equivalent.

The only leopard 1 that was ever fitted with a 120mm gun was the first experimental prototype for the Leopard 2 but I could be mistaken?

The Leopard 1 has a 105mm rifled gun i.e. an L7 gun.
That is utterly obsolete. It also has like, no armor. You can probably punch a hole through it with an RPG-7.

Ukraine has still plenty of t-80 and t-64. They don't need 50 leopard that are shittier. It's all propaganda.

Would be nice if they send them. Just film when you destroy them. It will work good for propaganda purpose.

Podlodka77 wrote:04/13/2022
Военное обозрение


Poland delivered the first batch of decommissioned T-72M tanks to Ukraine

Poland has begun deliveries of Soviet-style armored vehicles to Ukraine, we are talking about T-72 tanks and BWP-1 infantry fighting vehicles (Polish version of the BMP-1). According to a number of Telegram channels, the first batch of equipment has already been delivered to Ukrainian territory.

Officially, Kyiv does not report anything, continuing to beg heavy weapons from the West, but according to available information, Poland has already delivered the first batch of T-72 tanks removed from storage to Ukraine. How many tanks were in the batch is unknown, but in total the Poles intend to supply the Armed Forces of Ukraine with up to 100 (one hundred) T-72M MBTs.

The T-72M tanks delivered to Ukraine are a simplified modification of 1979, they lack dynamic armor, modern fire control systems, and multi-channel sights. These tanks were at the storage base in Lublin, the Polish military planned to upgrade them to the level of the RT-91, but there were no funds, then the hands did not reach. Now the Poles will also receive money for this scrap metal.

It is not clear what condition the tanks are in now, but it can be said with confidence that Kyiv does not have time for overhaul and modernization of these tanks, and there is nowhere to do work, Russia has attacked all factories capable of repairing armored vehicles.

Together with the tanks, the Poles are handing over BWP-1 infantry fighting vehicles (Polish licensed version of the BMP-1). The number of cars is unknown, their transfer near the Ukrainian border was noticed yesterday.

Against this background, Slovakia confirmed plans to transfer MiG-29 fighters to Ukraine from the presence of the country's air force. According to Prime Minister Eduard Heger, this issue will be resolved after Bratislava receives guarantees for the protection of its airspace from NATO partners. Heger did not set a date for the talks.

https://vpk.name/news/594666_polsha_postavila_na_ukrainu_pervuyu_partiyu_snyatyh_s_hraneniya_tankov_t-72m.html

#Russia

Russia will consider US and NATO vehicles carrying weapons on Ukrainian territory as legitimate military targets

- Russian Deputy Foreign Minister

🥭@mangopress

Hope they follow through on the threat and start hitting these wankers, words are ultimately meaningless. There are videos showing armoured vehicles on trains and trucks bound for Ukraine , these need to be Kalibrated as soon as they cross the border.

lancelot wrote:The Leopard 1 has a 105mm rifled gun i.e. an L7 gun.
That is utterly obsolete. It also has like, no armor. You can probably punch a hole through it with an RPG-7.

It's a T-55 with a better FCS and optics, although a lot of that depends on the modification.

But really it depends on how they use them. Against other tanks or even IFVs, for any sort of maneuver warfare, as part of the vanguard - it's a bad idea. Anything modern will be able to take it out
As fire support for infantry or in a defensive role it would work fine

One of my ideas one time was to equip Rosgvardia with some T-62 or whatever they have lying around, for fire support.

The best APS is probably a AK-630 turret -on- turret with radar and eo pod on top. but weight, volume and threat to surrounding vehicles/people make it impractical. Kill the in bounds at longer range vs last minute T-20 heroics.

The best APS system I have seen is ARENA because it launches its munitions upwards and they fire in a cone or fan forward but also directly down.

If you have a 30mm gatling gun in a turret even assuming it could respond quickly enough a burst of 30mm cannon shells to shoot down the threat would be 50-100 shells most of which will not hit the incoming threat and blow past and onwards causing death and destruction... the enemy could use that simply by getting between two Russian Units and firing a rocket at one so the APS systems open fire on the other Russian unit and they end up firing on each other.

In comparison the ARENA design was located around the front edge of the turret... you could space out the ERA and sit the APS munitions behind the ERA, and they could be launched upwards in the path of the incoming threat but the wide spread of fragments all going directly into the ground and therefore safe for friendly units more than 40m away... the width of the spread of fragments means even five different munitions sitting side by side could destroy incoming threats coming from the same launcher, and of course after the first launch the turret is turned towards the incoming threat so you could have a four or five layer of munitions over the gun for extra persistance in the direction the rockets are coming from.

You could add layers of more interceptors on the hull to really maximise the number of munitions you can defeat before needing to reload.

Separate munitions with a horizontal fragment spray that can be launched vertically could be used against diving top attack munitions and suicide drones...

All that APS is struggling to solve like tracking fast movers incl supersonic, closed loop radar guided gunnery have been solved by naval CIWS guns decades ago.

Not really... the Phalanx was the US Navys standard defence for ships from anti ship missiles and it is useless against sea skimming supersonic missiles... they had to introduce the SEA RAM missile to deal with such threats, which replaces their guns with missiles... not totally ideal.

The Kh-15 also came in conventionally armed anti-ship and anti-radar versions.

There was speculation that they might exist, but AFAIK they were all nuclear armed for strategic missions and also for the European theatre strike role.

They were withdrawn because of the nuclear only warhead option in the 1990s was no longer considered acceptable... they also had nuclear armed Kh-22M and Kh-32 missiles but these two weapons also had anti radar versions with conventional warheads too.... which saved them.

Kh-32 having better range and almost the same flight speed, but rather more difficult to deal with for enemy air defences with a near vertical dive from 40km altitude at mach 4.5 over ranges of 600-800km.

Sounds like CS gas if it happened.

The CIA probably has drones in the Ukraine too...

Cruise missile strikes from strategic bombers has been used since day one. The "bombing" strikes will likely start soon against the Ukrs in the Donbass cauldron and will likely continue into the western part of Ukraine. I don't expect any bombing campaigns in either Kiev or Odessa but Lviv might not be so lucky.

AFAIK the Tu-160 and Tu-95 are only cruise missile carriers... the Tu-22M3 is a bomber or cruise missile carrier, but is hardly strategic.

Guaranteed to clear any "persistent infestations"

Sounds like it was totally ineffective against the bugs...

Since it was at Vostochny with Rogozin in attendance the space talk makes perfect sense, but I still found it a bit comically absurd. Like, this is where Putin finally opens his mouth about any of this after weeks of silence, and "anyway, moon".

The west has left orbit and is circling Uranus and has been for some time...

The Kh-555 and Kh-32 programs are there to give a new life to the Kh-55 and Kh-22.

The Kh-555 is the nuclear armed Kh-55 with the terminal guidance system of the Kh-101 to make it accurate enough for the conventional warhead it carries, which makes them vastly more useful than nuclear armed missiles. The Kh-32 doubled the range and increased the speed of the Kh-22M from about Mach 3 to mach 4.5 and from about 500km to about 800km range, but more importantly the Kh-22M operates at about 23km altitude which is difficult for most western air defence systems to deal with, while the Kh-32 flys at 40km altitude which is also rather a problem to shoot down by many conventional air defence systems.

Most of the conscripts will be released, officers might get some jail time, nazis will be put into Dolfin-style prisons, foreigners probably be used as a bargaining chip, if they will survive capture that is. Chechens and foreign mercenaries who fought against Russia faced law after the war so it's not something unique, knowing Russia they are already opening cases against some of them as we speak.

They will have compiled lists...

Sometimes I wonder if they're just holding back for image reasons.

You go on to give very good explainations why that would not be the case.... there is nothing Russia could do to make its image worse in the west, the west has blamed Russia for doing everything the west does, without evidence of course.

The point is that while the Russians have given up on the west and don't care what the western public think any more they are not interested in the wholesale slaughter of their neighbours like the west would... the west wants as many Russian soldiers to die as possible. The Russians do not think the same about their enemy... they are happy to kill nazis but equally they will take them prisoner and see justice done too.

Russia should worry about their own people and dispense with any effort in trying to appeal to these apes, because even if the truth suddenly wasn’t censored, ignored or purposely misinterpreted as it is now, they still wouldn’t believe it, they are too far gone.

When Russia and China and India and the rest of the world start to develop and grow I suspect parts of the west will start to question why they have to do everything the US tells them even when it goes against their own interests... or especially so when it goes against their own interests... this was all about selling gas to the EU to steal the market from Russia.... Ukraine, the invasion of Syria... all to sell Fucking Gas.

Well the joke is on the EU because the US doesn't have the capacity to provide enough gas for now let alone future growth requirements and certainly no where near as cheap as Russia can sell it so in effect Asia is going to be getting that cheap energy... hopefully China can shift from dirty coal to cleaner gas power generation with the low cost and easy transport being huge positives...

So in the end, what matters is what Russians and average Ukrainians think on this conflict. And while all those Ukrainian expats can run around with Ukrainian flags in Germany or Poland screaming "Slava Ukraini" as loud and obnoxious as they can, it wont solve a single thing and all they will do is alienate the hosting nations people eventually. Especially how idiotic they can act in those nations making demands while being a guest (something most should not do but Ukrainians are too thick headed to realize this).

The irony is that RT was popular in the west and had significant market share... if it didn't then they would not have bothered to throttle it.

Not all westerners are sheep... technically many of us are westerners and we are coming to this thread to get updates on what is really happening... I don't bother watching western news sources because they are uniformly terrible and don't question the news feed from the US and UK.

The point is that when this is over then RT will likely be reinstated and we will start to find out all the BS... the problem is that most sheeple will stick to their western media sources so finding out some of the obvious BS will not happen any time soon and they will be shocked that there are actually Ukrainian people who will make peace with Russia and live next door and even trade openly with those monsters... hahaha... for people used to watching CNN and BBC and Fox News it wont make sense but for those watching RT or Sputnik it will all make sense... and infact be obvious, and how could we ever watch western news media again.

The firepower of the Russian army is just insane, and if we consider that they are trying to be humane ...
Knowing the Kiev narrative, it gets one sick. They are really determined to fight till the last Ukrainian there.

Have always been impressed about new weapons, but I prefer when they don't need to be used... most are horribly effective.

Yep pretty crazy. One second you are chilling with your buddies. The next you are minced meat.

Not like in the movies where you get to be heroic... you might get killed before you even get to fire a shot...

The countries with the most experience of real war choose it as their last resort instead of their first... ironically for the west it is just a game... a game they think they can win by lying.

Hahahaha... that Ambulance Hummer with the Z markings on it is hilarious... that will work...

Does anyone know how to differentiate Soviet / Russian tanks?
The truth is that the T-64, T-72, T-80, T-90 are quite similar.

You are right, they are very similar even though the T-64 and T-80 are related and the T-72 and T-90 are related their internal parts are quite different including different autoloaders and equipment and engines etc etc.

Russian T-80s have been upgraded to make them use more parts as used in the T-90 to make them easier to service and operate, but it is rather tricky for non experts to easily tell them apart.

It also never hurts to read a book once in a while.

To the casual observer they do look the same. It is not like comparing T-55s with T-62s and T-72s or M1A1s compared with M60s.

The two most respected newspaper editions in Serbia (Политика and Вечерње Новости) announced today that Serbia is interested in buying 12 used Eurofighter planes from Great Britain.

They might be a batch of early aircraft that would cost more than a new build plane to upgrade to modern level... they were going to scrap them I thought... perhaps selling them to Serbia is plan B?

You see the massive shit sandwich we are stuck with? And this is just the short version

Serbia is doing what it has to do to survive... blaming it is just childish.

We have all seen how psychotic the west is... the US has started how many wars to get its gas to Europe?

F*ckers are engaged in a war against Russia and at the same time bitch and whine about GPS being jammed.

Exactly... use the US dollar as a weapon, expect countries to stop using the US dollar... send GPS guided suicide drones and expect GPS to be jammed.

It is not that complex to understand.

Germany on the other hand has been thoroughly de-nazified, by both East and West, so its clear the Soviets knew what needed to be done in their case, but they lacked the foresight to realise that they needed to do the same in Banderastan as well..

Useful nazis were collected up like gold coins and expensive artwork by the US ...the west actively welcomed war criminals from Germany and Japan into the fold and gave them good paying jobs...

Even the Germans were shocked. As they probably are today too.

Not enough to stand up to the US though sadly.

BAE is probably offering some good lunch money as part of the deal.

I suspect the plan is that these are early model planes they were going to scrap... selling to Serbia saves them money and makes money on service contracts and I suspect the hope is to kill the deal for MiG-29s for Serbia with Russia.

Why is the Russian t 72B3 tank performing so poorly?

Who said it was performing poorly?

I suspect it is performing just fine, the problem is the source of information you are using.... WTF would Forbes magazine know about anything at all?

Are these tanks simply outdated? Moreover, why is the Ukrainian T 64 doing better?

Obviously the T-64 is doing so much better... that is why all the fighting is being done in Russia and Belarus because that is where teh Russians had to retreat to in their inferior armoured vehicles... (Sarcasm).

The Ukraine is in the brink of defeat, if the Russians managed to do that with useless obsolete tanks then all the better.

I guess I am susceptible to US news media but the Javelin is having success does Russia have a fire and forget missile similar to the Javelin?

The Javelin is aweful... its thermal sight normally wont lock on to a tank so has to be operated manually where its weak warhead makes side and rear attacks necessary to have any chance.

It is heavy and bulky and enormously expensive not to mention the very slow speed of the missile.

They must have stolen this from a museum! Laughing

A nice example of Ukrainian criminal mentality mixed with utter desperation

Actually for sustained fire purposes such a water cooled machine gun would have no modern equal... keep water going in to it and belts going in to it and it could fire for days... it even has the large hole on top of the jacket for putting snow into the barrel jacket...

They will need security forces and a reformed military - the destruction of the Iraq army and the time until it was recreated was a catastrophe for Iraq and only created more radicals. Chechens after second war were also not that friendly, but look at them now.

The US getting rid of the entire Iraqi Army essentially created the core of ISIS... that is where it came from.

Ukrainian armed formations are increasingly simply abandoning their heavy military equipment. So, in the Starobelsky district of the Luhansk People's Republic, prosecutors found a 152-mm self-propelled artillery mount 2S3 "Akatsiya".

When they run out of fuel or break down they likely have no choice in the matter.

Yes, javelin has proved to be a MASSIVE disappointment to the US, and the Ukies are sledging it as next to useless. Claims to the contrary are just US propaganda (sponsored by US MIC).

Was to be expected though... when they first got them they set up a tank target and fired a missile at it sitting out in the open... the missile missed.

The next video shot there was flames coming out of the turret of the tank, so they obviously set it on fire to create a decent IR signature for the missile to get a lock... not ideal for a weapon of war...

Unlike the subsonic "Tomahawk", our "Caliber" can fly in a wide range of speeds from subsonic to three times the speed of sound. At the same time, the hit accuracy, which is the same at a distance of 300 km, which is the same at 2500 km. As the developers say: in a peg. Experts believe that Caliber is several times more effective than Tomahawk. The following published characteristic testifies to its power: to destroy a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, three hits from Caliber missiles equipped with a conventional high-explosive warhead are enough.

To be clear Calibre is the domestic designation for the exported Club family or weapons which includes subsonic land attack and anti ship missiles, but also Onyx supersonic anti ship missiles and the subsonic Club with the mach 3 solid rocket propelled terminal rocket for anti ship use... as well as mach 2.5 anti sub ballistic rockets delivering anti sub torpedoes.

That is utterly obsolete. It also has like, no armor. You can probably punch a hole through it with an RPG-7.

Its frontal armour was something like 70mm so even the weakest anti armour RPG-7 round would penetrate even from serious angles.

Ukraine has still plenty of t-80 and t-64. They don't need 50 leopard that are shittier. It's all propaganda.

I am not so sure they do... and I doubt they have enough fuel either...

It's a T-55 with a better FCS and optics, although a lot of that depends on the modification.

A T-55 has more frontal armour...

The Ukrainians are running out of weapons, they are forced to fight with pans pots and utensils.


https://t.me/boris_rozhin/41954?single

Apparently there's still resistence in the Illich factory

Not everyone surrendered or attempted to break out. Some people in there it seems who would rather die fighting than be judged for their crimes.

Of course everyone is looking forward to the Azovstal citadel.
It's the last location left in Ukrainian hands.

par far wrote:The Ukrainians are running out of weapons, they are forced to fight with pans pots and utensils.


https://t.me/boris_rozhin/41954?single

They weren't kidding when they said they were cooks

par far wrote:The Ukrainians are running out of weapons, they are forced to fight with pans pots and utensils.


https://t.me/boris_rozhin/41954?single

If you believe their propaganda, then yeah. But most likely they got hit without knowing while making kharcho. Or maybe it's true that only chefs and musicians are left.