Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36

The new ukrainian cope now is that they killed 30k of 40k Wagner troops. But if such a loss happened Wagner would have to regroup for reinforcements to arrive and not immediately launch alot of offensives more than one place and not just Bakhmut.

not only this, Kh -22 has 1000kg warhead instead of 500kg for kh-32 or Iskander

Does the upgrade/modernization include allowing the missile to launch from a surface platform instead of an aircraft? These would be a very useful complement to kalibers

higurashihougi wrote:It is said that Arestovich is receiving a huge backlash after admit the role of Maidan's AA forces in the tragedy at Dnepropetrovsk.

https://www.rt.com/russia/569890-ukraine-missile-fell-dnepr/

Zelensky aide explains how missile fell on apartment block in Dnepr

A Russian missile that fell on an apartment block in the eastern Ukrainian city of Dnepr on Saturday had been shot down by Kiev’s forces, Aleksey Arestovich, a senior adviser to President Vladimir Zelensky, has said.

Zelensky and Ukrainian officials initially reported that the nine-story building was hit by a Russian missile. According to senior regional official Nikolay Lukashchuk, the number of victims rose to 21 dead and 73 wounded on Sunday....

These numbers are about one average shelling of Donetsk of which there have been hundreds so far, this is non-event

Hole wrote:

Can anyone translate these?

The draft came to Lvov looks like

Theyl be in bakhmut soon

PapaDragon wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:
Bolshie Jews. Don't pretend you don't know.

Bolseviks were all Jews? Where did they get so many of them?

The Bolshie leaders and the senior political cadres were overwhelmingly Jewish. The common rank and file foot troops were mostly Russian slavs, but the leaders were Jews. IIRC the Soviet government of 1922 had a politiburo (correct term in those early years?) of 20 members, of whom, 17 were Jewish. There was one Russian, one Ukrainian, and one Georgian (Stalin).

Bolshie Jews didn't see themselves as Russians, whom they despised and held responsible for their perceived mistreatment during Tsarist times. Their loyalty was to their ideology and their ethnicity. Russians were the "other" to be brutalised into submission.

You should know this, and I'm unsure if you are simply playing the fool or have some undeclared agenda here?

Politburo didn't have 20 members, to begin with. And your other claim about Jews is not correct, as well.

So if the decision will be made to field/or not to field Ch2 in the Ukro war, it will be only based on the fact if they will accept the image blow it will get.

In the west image is everything, the British cling to the idea they invented the tank and in a real sense they did though there were armoured cars around at the time too and armoured trains etc so as armour got heavier the switch to tracks was inevidible anyway so the tank would have been created either way.

Even the old tanks the Soviets copied... they copied better... their T-26 tanks were direct copies of British tanks except the British tanks had weaker guns and either had an anti tank gun or a machine gun, whereas the Soviet machines had both fitted... their very light armour just make them mobile anti tank guns, but they were so unreliable like the original even the Germans didn't use them for anything despite their need for armour to replace what they were losing on the battlefield.

Russian soldiers are well trained in that and dispose of the most potent AT means that exist. Taking out the entire 10-15 pieces will take them as much time as the delivery of this behemoths itself

Would they get to the front line with all the problems of moving them by rail and when they get near the front I would think they would be Vikhr food.

Imagine trying to paint WW2 Germany as a victim of a bombing campaign by "evil" Americans...you do know btw the Russians dropped more bombs then us right...you could have used Kosovo as an example of that's the point you wanted to make, Iraq even but you settle for WW2 Germany

The Second World War was really the first instance for the west in the modern age of total war where enemy civilians rather than enemy combatants were a focus of your air power... it was an attempt to destroy morale and brutally batter the enemy into submission, but tended to backfire.

On the eastern front Soviet citizens were being murdered in their millions but the Soviets dropped bombs over Germany for much longer in a much more sustained way, but they never got the body count kill of the west with their firebombing raids like the one on Dresden where the whole point of the exercise was to kill everyone in a firestorm they purposely created in a very specific tactic... but the German people were the bad guys. The western allies did it in Japan too...

Germany and Japan were certainly not innocent victims, but the civilians killed in those bombing campaigns can hardly be equated with the eastern europeans who volunteered for duty at concentration camps and mass murder...

A different time.

I would like the West to send at least 200 of its vaunted tanks and 50 AH-64s to finally show the whole world that it is just military equipment that burns like any other.

They will delay and change their minds and dither, but anything they do send has no chance of doing well... maybe a single fluke success, but the Russians will adjust tactics and then kill off the rest and ironically they are currently getting excellent experience at dealing with mobile artillery and drones on the front line in enormous numbers, which is going to make them a very formidable opponent in any future conflict.

BTW turns out the Apaches are not going... but they would not send them to Kosovo for fear they would be shot down by the Serbs... what chance against the Russians with a much wider array of air and ground based weapons to shoot them down.

Bolseviks were all Jews? Where did they get so many of them?

I don't think the inference is that all the commies were jews, but that like the end of the cold war in the early 1990s a lot of powerful people realised they could never actually become billionaires in the commie system... they could live well but not discustingly well so they let the collapse happen so they could have democracy and live like monarchs instead of managers. I suspect the idea is the same... a few jews with power and money got rid of the monarchy to cement their power so they could increase their wealth at the expense of everyone else... not the way all jews do, but the way all very rich people do.

So Russians​ allowed bunch of small nations and haters to fùck them raw?

Do you think that does not happen anywhere else ever... what is happening in the west right now... what is the EU doing to Serbia... do you think the people of the EU give a shit about Albanians or Kosovo... do you think married couples in the US both working two or three jobs each benefit from the conflict in Afghanistan or Iraq or now in Syria or Ukraine?

The west calls them oligarchs when they are eastern block but they are everywhere and they use their money and power to run the show... and to earn even more money in doing so.

And they all sat by and did nothing even though they outnumbered them by orders of magnitude?

Like the people of the Ukraine with Nazis taking power and getting them to shell their own people and then get them into a war with Russia.

Yeah, I will then just chalk this up to Good Lord Darwin giving Russians what they deserved if this is the story people are going with

Only happens to Russians because we ignore it when it is happening right now to us...

Russians are stupid...

Everyone is stupid.

And those that abuse it know what they are doing... that is how they got to be in a position of such disgusting wealth.

Had they blown up these turbines on the first day they would have saved themselves hundreds of cruise missiles and achieved better results on top

I agree with destroying the turbines but hearts and minds still matter... leaving it till now they can justify by stating that Kiev is escalating things and we had to respond to keep this conflict moving to some conclusion.

The West introduced the red vermin with the same goal as today - to destroy the Russian state and Russians and the most important of all - the RUSSIAN CHURCH.

Even the commies found the church to be useful and I think there should always be a separation between the church and government because not everyone is required to have any faith at all, so why make it part of government. You are free to embrace whatever you want in your own free time, but government has little to do with religion.

Russia can ONLY survive as a country that will return to its roots, no other way.

Russia needs to understand its own roots and decide on its own core values, but it should be using those to look forward, not backwards, they certainly don't have to destroy themselves with the current liberal nonsense in the west...

@garryb yes the Brits did contemplate getting rid of its ch2 but that would likely lead to more redundancies at a time there was mass reduction in forces numbers and disbanding of regiments it would most likely not go down well, the decision was most likely down to pride losing well known regiments wouldn't go down well at the time.

A smart politician would say we might not need tanks but we do need heavy vehicles with protection and fire power... why don't we shift those working on tanks to other related things where their skills will be useful... we know drones are valuable, whether recon or suicide so developing vehicles that can carry those around a battlefield in large numbers that are protected and reliable would be something useful they could be working on and spending money on instead of making super heavy tanks in super tiny numbers... during a couple of years in WWII the Germans managed to make about three times more Tiger I tanks than the British have managed to make Challenger tanks... about 500 of the latter and 1,600 Tiger Is in comparison... in very different conditions and over very different time scales.

Britain should look to what it needs lots and lots of and not piss money away on things they will only ever make a few hundred of... like tanks or stealth fighters.

I think the same of India... make things for yourself but only things that will sell in enormous numbers commercially to make it profitable for yourself instead of creating white elephants that cost more than just buying something foreign off the shelf.

The Brits I don't ever see them deploying tanks ever again.

New Zealand came to the same conclusion regarding fighter aircraft which we didn't really use at all except exercises and airshows.

In fact years ago they had big issues with pilots leaving and taking jobs with Ryanair, easyJet, etc as they were being paid more, they start a bonus incentive and naval pilots were being given bonuses of around £125,000 to stay for X amount of years, many took the incentive stayed the certain amount of years thrnnleft anyway lol.

I would say the solution would be for the Navy or Airforce to bond their pilots for say 10 years to cover the cost of their training, and a clause that they can be called up in an emergency if needed... otherwise it will just be abused.

There were cases here of guys doing university courses through the military or police or big business and failing the last paper and then dropping out of the military or police or big business company and then paying for the last paper to complete their qualification for themselves without any obligation to the org that paid the bulk of their fees and costs and paid them to be a student... very dodgy.

Who would want such morally bankrupt people on their staff?

And as for new tanks, the only way a new tank in Europe is going to surface is if it's a joint venture with UK, France, Germany and Italy.

Sorry... just got a bit of deja vue there... well ironically I remember that MBT tank project where all the crew were in the turret with the complex design that the driver had his position constantly turning when the turret turned to keep him pointing forward and parallel to the hull... ironic because a new tank with no crew in the turret everyone remains parallel to the hull while the turret turns on its own.

And going back to feudalism is going back to the Dark Ages.

That is what the west has now... a great big politican class with two sides... you vote in one or the other but there is almost never any other viable option so it is like two royal families, but essentially the same but at odds with each other pretending to be different to give the appearance of choice to the people, but as the people get poorer and work harder for less result... well something has to give...

No accountability means you can say what you please to get elected and all they can do is vote against you in 4-7 years time... how can that be considered democracy... especially when half the people who vote don't know anything about most of the candidates or the issues and vote because Hillary is a woman or Obama is black, thinking they will fix things... and they never do.... most of the time they are just the same or make things worse.

Actual delivery of Challenger 2 and Leopard 2 to Ukraine has its advantages. Strategically it wont impact the situation. New tanks put a lot of strain on nazi logistics. Russians can study the best way to destroy NATO mbts in the real battlefield conditions.


And i only wonder how west explains that superduper tanks get destroyed by "obsolete soviet equipment" ?

And if the Russians do mount any offensives and advance quickly then these super tanks will likely be lost by being overrun...

UK to give Ukraine Challenger 2 tanks and AS90 self-propelled howitzers

Russia to donate to Argentina some Yakhont anti ship missiles and lease a couple of Improved Kilo class submarines... (FAKE)

Perhaps when the west starts sending tanks the Russians will publicly announce the sale of Su-35s to Iran and licence production of MiG-29Ms in Iran too.

Our elite's mistake was trying to go back there where we were neither wanted nor welcomed. Russia paid the price for that, but fortunately the countries we forged close relationships to in your hated

It would have been negligent for Russia to not try to get on with the west and integrate into the western controlled international community, but after these last 20 years they haven't been blindly pinning all their hopes that the west would come around and be their best buddies... at best they expected some respect and equality from the west but even that was too much, but fortunately Putin was smart enough to develop and grow Russia to the point where now it is independent enough from the west to be kicked out of institutions like SWIFT etc and not collapse and break up... it is able to forge relationships with other like minded countries that also want to grow and develop but are being blocked by the west who does not tolerate rivals. Russia and BRICS is offering growth and development without demands and requirements and without anyone having to bend a knee to any other country in the group... it is not run by Russia or China or India, other countries are not required to endorse or support other countries in the group... what they are required to do is not attack other countries in the group or join other groups that attack countries...

The situation for Russia is about as good as it could possibly be, if they had been anti west from the start their grown and development would have been stunted... likely no thermal cameras and other technologies they bought in the west, which would have been denied to them 20 years ago instead of 5 to 10 years ago... which has allowed Russia to develop its own basis for its own technology growth and development.

The Department of Defense has said that the Mirror article, which claims that the United Kingdom will send Apache attack helicopters to Ukraine, is incorrect.

Because they knew that even fitted with the latest western DIRCMS a Russian fighter could obliterate the entire fleet of four aircraft in seconds from 100km away with a modern active radar homing air to air missile and the Apache crew could do nothing about it.

They are denying it now but eventually they will be shipped. This has been the pattern from day one.

I hope they do... Apaches would be worse than useless in the Ukraine.

From the worst to the best. Hayk shows by his actions that each of us not only deserves a chance, but can also become a hero.

The difference between a criminal and a hero can just be opportunity and chance... It is very good that these men are getting a chance to do good for their own people and the people of the Ukraine.

@KVS
The Leopard-2 has a shorter gun barrel than the T-72. This is not an improvement. The shorter the barrel the more scatter of
the shell at a given range.

For a long time it was believed that the longest barrel possible was always the best, but in actual fact there is some evidence that shorter more rigid barrels flex less and offer better accuracy, but of course the longer the barrel the more energy is transferred to the projectile so a longer barrel for the same ammo means higher velocity which means better penetration for kinetic tank rounds. The smoothbore barrel means less internal friction and higher velocity so a smoothbore can be shorter than a rifled gun and offer the same muzzle velocity and lack of rifling means HEAT rounds are more effective too and APFSDS rounds don't benefit from rifling at all so saying rifled guns are more accurate because of the rifle spinning of the projectile... sabot rounds don't spin and they are one of the two most important rounds for a tank... the other is the HEAT which benefits from not spinning too. The main round that benefits from spinning is HE rounds and they are area kill weapons which don't need precise accuracy... which is why, after a lot of resistance, most modern tank guns use smoothbore barrels... they are cheaper and lighter and easier to clean and enable higher velocities for all rounds and also make HEAT rounds more effective on target.

A very long tank gun in a pain in the backside in urban areas or forested areas where the gun can hit things and actually be damaged.

The purpose of the L55 was to give German guns better performance using Tungsten rounds than the L44 achieves with DU rounds.

Obviously the L55 with DU rounds would be better still.

He could wait till teh fighting is over and blend in and try to sneak through the lines...

Is this just a distraction for Ukr army or will Russia for real attack from there?

Would you like us to guess or do you think we know?

It could be both and it could be one or the other, or it could be neither.

You could also mention that it could also just be there to help protect an ally that Kiev might want to drag in to this conflict so it has some softer targets to attack and maybe get a bit more success and a weaker opponent they might be able to sour relations with Russia over... domino effect type thing.

Or perhaps it is a ruse.

I was curious about the Russians using KH-22's for land attack and found an article about a program to upgrade them to Kh-32 accuracy. The cost to do so seems to be less then 10M rubles. considering they have a lot of these, it would make sense to put these upgrades into production and use up these old, but powerful, weapons in Ukraine. Esp since they now have KH-32, Kinzhal and Tsirkon. They made apparently more then 3000 of these.

Good points, but another aspect is that the older missiles flying simpler flight paths would be easier targets for Kievs air defence... which will perhaps encourage them to use up more of their multi million dollar new HATO supplied missiles or use up some valuable and not replaceable ex Soviet missiles... that intercept of a Russian missile that hit an apartment building is an example of the added damage that could be created shooting these things down which all just adds up to make things miserable for the Ukrainian people and a serious discount price for Russia using up old stock.

The Russians were designing new missiles that were guided and super cheap that could be mass produced in enormous numbers but were still precision guided which would be ideal to replace used up old stocks...

Even western intelligence is having hard to assume if Russia will attack from there or not.

Plans have to be flexible... they might intend to attack from there or they might not but the situation might change where they do or they don't when they intended otherwise.

Putin said he wouldn't invade the Ukraine... I suspect that changed when it was clear the Ukraine was going to attack its former regions and also attack the Crimea too so war was inevidable, so Putin didn't lie... the situation just changed.

Or maybe they had already decided to attack and he did lie to improve the chances of success for the attack.

The ARM variant of the Kh-22 with a modern seeker would have been useful too.

The Kh-22s came in three main versions... one flew to a specific coordinate and exploded and came with a nuclear warhead and would be used against carrier groups or large western land bases or critical HQs or major large heavy SAM sites, the other two were radar guided... one anti ship, but the land strike model could be used against major bridges or buildings, and the other being passive radar homing was also used against ships in the second wave attack when the enemy ships are alert they are under attack and are scanning with radar to try to detect incoming threats, and also anti SAM and radar use on land as well.

They can all use the nuclear warhead but the one designed to head to a coordinate only used a nuke because the target tended to be huge so a conventional warhead would not be powerful enough.

The Kh-22 and Tu-22 aircraft were always dual land based theatre strike and naval strike aircraft... in the bomber role they were land based theatre strike too.

Does the upgrade/modernization include allowing the missile to launch from a surface platform instead of an aircraft? These would be a very useful complement to kalibers

Probably not, but a Tu-22M3 can carry three of these missiles at once.

not only this, Kh -22 has 1000kg warhead instead of 500kg for kh-32 or Iskander wrote:

Yes I think this is why they dropped this beast on an apt building. Probably they located a command facility in this apt, and to guarantee its destruction a Kaliber would not suffice. There is no way the Ukes hit it. The can't hit a Geran so a m3+ missile in a vertical trajectory is impossible. Its sad that a lot of innocent people died, but it sent the message to Ukraine govt that if you hide in buildings, the whole building will be obliterated. I think Ukraine was just trying to cover up they were using human shields. So the said they hit it.

I had to look into the unfortunate incident in Dnepr a bit.

So, whatever struck, struck the street only meters in front of the "Victory Embankment 118" building (48.418961, 35.068374) , and the powerful explosion propelled a massive rain of extremely high-velocity shrapnel and fuel ahead of the impact site, striking the building hard, and probably also causing a secondary gas explosion in the building and the subsequent collapse of a section of it.

Anyway, they say it came from the north ("Kursk direction"), and since we know that the Russians were targeting electrical substations at the time, by continuing the probable trajectory it appears very likely that the intended target was the "Topol" (Poplar) 150/10kV substation by Yasnopolyanska street (48.395848, 35.061614).



I think it was a Kh-22 coming from the north that was intercepted "semi-successfully", exactly like Arestovich said.

So, the initial explosion caused by the interception was heard far and wide and prompted some people to start filming in the general direction of the sound:

In this video, the people are located in a car at the byway next to "Victory Embankment" a bit further south (48.416707, 35.071887) and they begin filming towards the sky to the north, and seconds later catch the flash of the impact slightly to the left (west) of their original filming direction, upon which they turn and observe the smoke rising:




In this video, the guy is located in the house on Pysaryeva 54 (48.416339, 35.057317) and begins filming to the northeast, and then catches the flash of light of the final impact, with the subsequent smoke column:



The missile was not entirely destroyed in mid-air though. Some parts of it, most importantly the intact warhead continued ballistically, eventually falling well short of its intended target... The people that had already started filming due to hearing the explosion of the mid-air interception thus caught the final, silent flight of the remains of the Kh-22 and its final boom. It adds up pretty well.

There is a tiny possibility that it actually was yet another Ukrainian AD failure: For instance, say a SAM was trailing the fast Kh-22, the successful hit on the substation caused a boom which made people start filming, seconds later the SAM dove down and accidentally struck in front of the building and triggered a gas explosion, which accounts for the seemingly unproportional damage for a SAM (the many Ukrainian Buk/Kub/S-300/IRIS-T/NASAMS failures to date have consistently left far less damage, as they carry significantly smaller warheads than say a cruise missile or what have you, though they have killed people and they have consistently been blamed on Russia anyway, in spite of all the obvious evidence).

But I find it unlikely. People begin filming in the wrong direction for that, opposite to the substation. And of course, there is damage "behind" the apartment complex too, which suggests a large warhead and significant velocity.

Anyway, it reminds me of the Ukrainian Tochka-U strike on Belgorod last year. It was intercepted, but too late, and the remains of it struck multiple civilian houses. The Russian MoD admitted that it was such a "semi-successful" interception immediately though, unlike Ukraine which as usual went "they absolutely intended to strike this particular building and kill as many civilians as possible" and then went all mad at Arestovich for having the audacity to suggest otherwise.

PD wrote: So Russians​ allowed bunch of small nations and haters to fùck them raw?

And they all sat by and did nothing even though they outnumbered them by orders of magnitude?

Yeah, I will then just chalk this up to Good Lord Darwin giving Russians what they deserved if this is the story people are going with Razz

Exactly this. Darwinism wouldn’t be the right term, but that’s almost textbook definition of death of an Empires.

It’s not about the jews being ebil schemers, us bastards from Baltics were also involved more than anyone likes to admit. The fact that jews were so involved was grudge against Tsarist government, lack of allegiance to anyone due to cultural reasons and education that wasn’t available to most of the Russian population back then.

You don’t need to look far, you guys lost Yugoslavia, a regional powerhouse and place that Soviet people looked with some jealousy. Little zagranica for those who visited it. And it fell apart even with less destabilising factors than Russian Empire. Someone went Tito up and it was enough to have some albanian catalyst to drag whole union through the mud.

Syria, for all foreign interference, also erupted into the war because of weak leadership. Assad is not his father and his gentle approach didn’t work against marginal ethnic and religious groups who suddenly got bolstered with financial and military support.

Sorry for offtopic, back to Wagner guys

Ukrainians are creating myths, rightfully or not, it’s better for them to know

https://t.me/gzvonews/4342

In an Interview a Ukrainian militant gave a personal assesment on confronting Russian troops.

According to him there are three categories, first the newbies or recruits, untrained but there are lots of them and with superior numbers they can easily wipe out a Ukrainian unit hiding in a patch of woods.

Then the contract soldiers and veterans, skilled and hardened, tough to go against:

- There are dudes with experience we can’t even dream about. Dudes have gone through so many (military) campaigns that damn!..

But the last step are of course Wagner PMCs, if you have to fight against them, you are going to need everyone you have learned before if you want to survive:

- Those dudes are… ****.. I’m not going to list where they have been, see? Those opponents… ****... Those are some strong dudes. Just shooting at one another isn’t gonna work.

Follow:
t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses

I think it was a Kh-22 coming from the north that was intercepted "semi-successfully", exactly like Arestovich said. The initial explosion caused by the interception was heard far and wide and prompted some people to start filming in the general direction of the sound. The missile was not entirely destroyed in mid-air though. Some parts of it, most importantly the intact warhead continued ballistically, eventually falling well short of its intended target... The people that had already started filming thus caught the final boom. wrote:

You will hear KH-22 if it passes over you as there will be loud sonic booms. You will also likely hear it as it transitions to vertical trajectory as its earlier sonic booms will "overtake" it on the horizontal plane. Looking at the building it appears it was hit from the top and AFIK the KH-22 does a vertical plunge attack. I think the building was the target. A KH-22 is overkill for a substation. KH-22 is for taking out a large target... like a building.

mnztr wrote:You will hear KH-22 if it passes over you as there will be loud sonic booms. You will also likely hear it as it transitions to vertical trajectory as its earlier sonic booms will "overtake" it on the horizontal plane. Looking at the building it appears it was hit from the top and AFIK the KH-22 does a vertical plunge attack. I think the building was the target. A KH-22 is overkill for a substation. KH-22 is for taking out a large target... like a building.

To me it looks like the very first pillar of smoke that appears is well in front of the building, that the missile remains came at an oblique angle, "spraying" several tons of glowing hot shrapnel into the building and indeed, all the way through it.


(this was filmed in a southeastern direction from the highrise located at 48.421064, 35.066413)


If the building was the actual target, and not the substation that lies in the trajectory and that would match all the other substations struck in the same wave, then this is an extremely callous war crime and whoever ordered it should be trialled and jailed.

do you have video links?

If the building was the actual target, and not the substation that lies in the trajectory and that would match all the other substations struck in the same wave, then this is an extremely callous war crime and whoever ordered it should be trialled and jailed. wrote:

We don't know what was in the building. If they targeted a purely civilian building sure it was a war crime. If there was a command center there or senior commanders living there, then it was a legit target.

surprisingly it is happening in Kiev to and yes i still get updates this past week of AFU fucking around with civilians.

mnztr wrote:do you have video links?

They're all on the usual Telegram channels.

We don't know what was in the building. If they targeted a purely civilian building sure it was a war crime. If there was a command center there or senior commanders living there, then it was a legit target.

It's a semi-dilapidated Soviet era high-density residential complex, full of smallish apartments, full of people. There is no way you strike something like that without killing heaps and heaps of civilians.




Even if Bandera himself had been resurrected by the black arts and made into some kind of Wolfenstein-esque nazi cyborg and happened to reside in one of those apartments, it wouldn't be a legitimate target to strike like that.

Terrorists and other utter fanatics may reason that any kind of collateral damage is excusable it (they don't care), but it is a crime. No two ways about it.

Even if Bandera himself had been resurrected by the black arts and made into some kind of Wolfenstein-esque nazi cyborg and happened to reside in one of those apartments, it wouldn't be a legitimate target to strike like that. wrote:

He is not a military target, but if there was a command facility there or legit military targets there then yes those people are collateral, In the Iraq war the US sent B1 bombers to obliterate 8 blocks of Baghdad just on a rumor that Saddam was there. A few thousand were killed. It did not hit the building direct, so perhaps it was a miss. I was under the impression it hit the building dead on. In any case another tragic day like every day in a tragic war that could have been avoided.

You only measure time from when the decided to take out the power. And how long they need it out. The nature and plan of the war has changed. You are using western cruise missile pricing. The geraniums cost about 20k kaliber i would estimate at 1-200k.kh-22 that they used. Surplus stocks

This war has lasted way longer than couple of weeks Cruise missiles aren't cheap and even if they were it would be retarded to waste them And why should Russians waste their money on rebuilding Ukrainian power plants? Ukrainians don't need no Russian electricity, they were very specific about it Had they blown up these turbines on the first day they would have saved themselves hundreds of cruise missiles and achieved better results on top wrote:

mnztr wrote:He is not a military target, but if there was a command facility there or legit military targets there then yes those people are collateral, In the Iraq war the US sent B1 bombers to obliterate 8 blocks of Baghdad just on a rumor that Saddam was there. A few thousand were killed. It did not hit the building direct, so perhaps it was a miss. I was under the impression it hit the building dead on. In any case another tragic day like every day in a tragic war that could have been avoided.

Until now and throughout the war, the deaths of civilians in Russian strikes were only collateral damage - accidents that are not controlled by a massive explosion of a cruise missile warhead, for example. I am not aware of ANY FACT of deliberately striking civilian targets to kill civilians, in which the Russian army would be involved. At the same time, you seem to be trying with all your might to prove that the Russian army is engaged in war crimes in Ukraine.

I'm not even sure what are you disputing.
Herr Goebbelsovich nulled all the Ukro claims about the deliberate attack.
He will be hung by his balls for that soon anyway

And let me correct the history about "hearing the missile".
No, it won't do.
Ch-22 dives to its target at a preprogrammed trajectory that is set for the target characteristics. For heavily defended targets with AEGIS coverage, it flies at 40 km almost to the end, and can dive almost vertically to the target. So for most of the flight path, we talk about something that goes at 40 km height and increases the speed while diving to Mach3.0+
So no, you can't hear it if it is not far away already.

Until now and throughout the war, the deaths of civilians in Russian strikes were only collateral damage - accidents that are not controlled by a massive explosion of a cruise missile warhead, for example. I am not aware of ANY FACT of deliberately striking civilian targets to kill civilians, in which the Russian army would be involved. At the same time, you seem to be trying with all your might to prove that the Russian army is engaged in war crimes in Ukraine.

Sole Ukro claims put the number of civilian deaths at a remarkably low level considering the scale and intensity of the strikes. People in Belgrade could only dream of such humane strike planning back in 1999. Not to mention Iraquis.

Basically now the Maidan armed forces have too choices:

(1) admit that they are involved in the Dnepropetrovsk tragedy by intercepting the Russian Kh-22 missile and caused it to crash into the civillian building.

(2) admit that they are unable to intercept the Kh-22 missile in order to blame the Russians for this incident and therefore, admit that the AA capability of Maidan regime is not as good as they claim to be.

https://www.rt.com/russia/569916-ukraine-dnepr-apartment-building/

Zelensky aide flip-flops on apartment block blast

Aleksey Arestovich found himself in hot water after suggesting the building in Dnepr was hit by a Russian missile, downed by Ukrainians

“It was shot down. It apparently fell on the [apartment] block. But it exploded when falling,” Arestovich said in a YouTube interview.

The assessment immediately came under fire, with Arestovich ending up accused of discrediting Ukraine’s military and assigning blame for the incident on it. The mayor of Dnepr, Boris Filatov, got particularly enraged by his statements, branding the presidential aide “a narcissistic animal and a foul mouth,” and urging the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) and counterintelligence to “react.”

The spat prompted the country’s military to provide its own explanation of the incident, with the Ukrainian Air Force command identifying the Russian projectile that allegedly hit the building as a Kh-22, a supersonic air-launched cruise missile. The military bizarrely claimed in an official statement that it has no weaponry to bring down the missiles of the type altogether, with more than 210 Kh-22s making it through the country’s air defenses amid the ongoing conflict.

Separately, the spokesman for the Air Force, Colonel Yury Ignat, admitted on Facebook that earlier reports of Ukrainian forces shooting down Kh-22 missiles might have been inaccurate.

Ukrs are saying the truth only by mistake&accidentally.
But of course, they have systems capable to take down Ch-22.
S-300V.

Air defense systems shot down a UAV over the sea towards Belbek — Governor of Sevastopol
https://t.me/intelslava/43433
Over the past 24 hours, the air defense forces of the Black Sea Fleet shot down 3 Ukrainian drones over the Black Sea that were trying to break through to the harbor and Belbek military airfield.
https://t.me/intelslava/43434

@Podlodka

The USSR didn't "kill the identity" of Russians. I don't agree with the naming of the republics. Or vile shit like "Ukrainification" of the Ukraine - an abandoned policy of Stalin. But if the inbred fucks like Romanov hadn't damaged the Ru Empire so much, these changes wouldn't have happened.

It was the USSR or the Ru Empire crumbling into a series of little princedoms and God know's what else.
As long as Romanov had his palaces and splendour and titles he didn't give a shit how fucked up the Russian World was. And Catherine the Great was such a "patriot" she would speak German and French at home!

Condemning feudalism is essential for any self respecting person. Its a form of slavery as evil and gimpishly pathetic as any.
If you deny that then frankly you are on another planet. You want a bunch of "upper class" English wankers with beards ruling Russia because they pretend to be "the heir to Tsar Nicholas II". Wow u must be on a serious load of drugs! I really pity you!

If anything it was the Russian Fedn that destroyed the Russian identity of the Ukraine.
Even the Russian Fed has many republics that aren't called Russia. They are still part of Russia though.
Half of the problem with the Ukraine was that Stalin took over Western sections and the Russian SSR wasn't firm enough with them. Exactly the same with the Ru Fed vs them.

I've nothing against Russia returning to its Orthodox roots. Provided that doesn't mean losing grip over the Muslim, Buddhist, Rodnov parts of Russia etc. The non Orthodox can be terrific patriots too. So beyond the rhetoric I don't see much in your words. Russia is an orthodox country in values. Chechnya and shitholes excluded.

Likewise the Church does itself no favours by giving sainthood to scum like Romanov. They should reverse that one asap.

You hate the USSR but the Red Army, red star symbols and the Great Patriotic War are all indelibly part of Russia. Part of its history and involve many of Russia's proudest, most sacred moments. The USSR isn't about athiesm, even if the state was officially "secular". Even Stalin eventually moved towards Christianity to some extent during the Great Patriotic War. And are you saying the red stars should be moved from the military? Surely not! So why move them from the Kremlin?!

As for your condemnation of the USSR for killing that maggot Romanov, well that is utterly nonsensical. He was a globalist, parasite and a POS of the very lowest order. It was his cretinous behaviour that almost saw the end of Russia forever. For all his faults, at least Stalin saved Russia from Germany. And remember Romanov himself was basically a fucking German!