Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/412745398

https://militaryland.net/maps/deployment-map/

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/01/ukraine-sitrep-media-ignorance-counter-artillery-war-three-lost-armies-.html#more




source for map i posted. Ukraine has to be getting fucked up bad.

For Ukrainian politicians it’s not turning sour, that’s what I meant. They are not on kill lists, they are not being targeted, Russia will not persecute or assassinate them. They are more in danger by being involved in internal power struggles. That’s the reality. Even if they will loose the war, they have plans for that too.

“I worry about the leader of Wagner and Wagner itself becoming a kind of praetorian guard. Is he a patriot? Would he be influenced by the west to make a coup attempt?”

No difference if he’s a patriot. Navalny can be patriot, and?
Prigozhin doesn’t have presidential aspirations, he was in the Putin’s circle for years. Wagner is supplied by the military. They don’t have industrial complex working for them. Think of them, as a temporary employee in company that provides it’s resources for the duration of employment. That’s about it.

And I am surprised he is not happy by military requirements, he’s on the ground most of the time and speaking with fighters, he just amplifies sentiment on the ground and that’s the biggest advantage.
US troops in Vietnam also had all sort of requirements, but they rarely followed them

@Alamo - I just hope that Wagner soldiers after a half year contract decide to continue being a part Wagner team. It would be such a waste to disband many experienced and brave soldiers during war against Russia.

Lots of them express a wish to get back in the ranks ASAP.
They got a new life.
There are cases when people enlisted having DAYS to the end of punishment.

I didn't even know you were Polish either honestly.

You would have been surprised by the fact that many Poles have a sane and reasonable position toward Russia.
A whole political nationalist scene following Dmowski is proRussian - at some level at least.
Dmowski was advocating for close relations with Russia against Germany for his entire life.
Yet his credo was "I am a Pole, and I have Polish duties".
It is politically motivated main stream agenda being antiRussian.
It was tamed, just like the hate toward Germans existed for clear reasons after the war, and was fuelled again in the 60s with all the power state propaganda could throw. Movies included.
One of the biggest issues in Poland is the fact of the huge and hidden Ukrainian diaspora existing.
Commies were stupid enough to carry a Vistula Plan after the war, being a forceful relocation of ethnic Ukrainians from the eastern borders. Part of the was transported to the Soviet Union, while some 100+ k was dispersed on the western borders. In several big enclaves. Those people were thrown under a train, as the newly acquired territories were already colonized by the Poles from Kresy. The very same ones who survived UPA atrocities. So you can imagine the love&friendship that started if you place a 100k minority into 5 mln population, that witnessed the genocide the first one carried only 2-4 years earlier. It was a mental slaughter. That is why Ukrainians denied their nationality and hid it.
In a census made in 1949 in Szczecin for example, only 200 out of 10 000 Ukrainians declared their nationality. The remaining 9800 were already reconfigured to pretend Poles while cultivating the Ukrainian identity in secrecy.
Their family model was traditional, with big families.
A 3-4 kids standard. As we talk about 4th generation since the war ended, just do the math.
In Canada, Uko nazis who fled were welcomed with open arms, so they didn't have to hide. To this very day, most of them are using Ukrainian names&surnames, so can be easily distinguished.
Not in Poland. And the people were not nazis, mostly - what makes a difference.

News from Frankreich...

January 19, 06:31
Military operation in Ukraine

Politico: France is considering supplying Ukraine with Leclerc tanks
According to the source of the newspaper, the decision has not yet been made.

BRUSSELS, 19 January. /TASS/. France is considering supplying its Leclerc tanks to Ukraine, but no decision has been made yet. This was reported on Thursday by the European edition of Politico, citing an unnamed French official.

"The topic is complex, and there is no decision in Paris yet. But we are thinking about it. Let's see what will be decided at the joint meeting of the Councils of Ministers of France and Germany [on Sunday]," the source said.

According to official data, as of November 2022, the French ground forces were armed with 222 Leclerc tanks of the old version, 200 of them were to be upgraded by 2025.

In December, Prime Minister of Ukraine Denys Shmygal, on the air of the French TV channel LCI, called on Paris to supply Kiev with Leclerc tanks.
Dmitry Peskov, press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, told reporters on Monday that the supply of heavy armored vehicles by Western countries to Ukraine is not capable of changing the situation on earth, "these tanks are burning and will continue to burn."


https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/16833515

January 19, 06:00
Article

"Leopards" and "Challengers" against the T-90M: what to expect from Western tanks in Ukraine
We talk about the supply of new Western armored vehicles to Ukraine

The UK will hand over 14 Challenger 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine in the coming weeks, and will also significantly increase its diplomatic activity in the world in order to increase the supply of weapons to Kiev from the allies. This is stated in the published UK strategy for Ukraine. Polish President Andrzej Duda said that Warsaw would transfer a company of Leopard tanks to Ukraine as part of support for the international coalition.

The Finnish authorities also announced the possibility of considering the transfer of Western-made tanks to Ukraine, if this step is supported by a "group of several countries." In June 2022, the Pais newspaper reported that Spain was ready to supply Leopard-2 tanks to Kiev, but Germany blocked the transfer.

TASS has collected information on the technical characteristics of heavy combat vehicles, comments from military and political experts regarding the proposed supplies, as well as information about modern Russian tanks in the special operation zone in Ukraine.


Features of Western tanks

The Challenger 2 main battle tank has been in service with the British Army since 1994, according to the UK Ministry of Defense website. Firepower and protection were priorities in the development, therefore, according to the British War Department, the tank is slower than its rivals. The vehicle is protected by multi-layer combined armor "Dorchester-2" (Dorchester Level 2) with ceramic elements. The main armament of the tank is a 120-mm rifled gun, the auxiliary one is two 7.62-mm machine guns.
With additional armor, the mass of the tank reaches 75 tons. Diesel engine with a capacity of 1,200 hp. accelerates the car to 59 km / h on the highway and 40 km / h on rough terrain. The cruising range on internal fuel tanks is 550 km on the highway and 250 km off-road. The tank was used by the British Army in operations in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo and Iraq, while it is claimed that not a single vehicle was destroyed by the enemy.

In May 2021, the United Kingdom Ministry of Defense announced the award of a contract to upgrade 148 of the 227 Challenger 2 tanks to the Challenger 3 level by Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land. The upgraded tank will receive a 120-mm smoothbore gun, an active protection system and improved electronics. It is planned to put the tanks into operation in 2027. At the same time, the fate of the remaining 79 combat vehicles remained unknown. Experts believed that the tanks could be sold or scrapped.

The German main battle tank "Leopard-2" was produced in several modifications, the most modern of which is the A7+. In total, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann produced over 3.5 thousand units of all variants of this machine. In service with Poland, which is ready to transfer tanks to Ukraine, there are 142 "Leopard-2" versions of the A4 and 105 - modifications of the A5. According to the manufacturer's information and open sources, these variants of the armored vehicle have a mass of about 60 tons, are armed with a 120 mm smoothbore gun and a 7.62 mm machine gun, and are equipped with a 1,500-horsepower engine. Armor - combined, multi-layered. The maximum speed of the tank is more than 70 km/h, the cruising range is 450 km.

The Leopard-2 and Challenger-2 crews consist of four people, which is one more than in Russian cars. If in domestic tanks the gun is reloaded using an automatic loader, then in Western tanks this is done by a separate crew member.


"Any grenade launcher can handle it"

Sergei Suvorov, an expert in the field of armored vehicles, candidate of military sciences, retired colonel, shared his opinion about the Leopard-2 in an interview with TASS. “The tank is like everyone else. There is a good fire control system with the possibility of duplicating aiming from the commander, there is a thermal imaging sight, but the vehicle is quite old, overall,” he said, noting that the samples supposed to be delivered to Kiev were designed in the 1980s.

According to him, Ukrainian crews will face a number of difficulties when retraining for new equipment. And if tankers can be trained in shooting and driving quickly, then studying tank maintenance, preparing the weapon system for firing, reconciliation and other operations will take more time. The specialist also noted that the preparedness of the crew and command staff plays a more important role than the type of tank, and technically any of the Russian tanks used in the special military operation zone is capable of destroying the above-mentioned Western vehicles. Suvorov drew attention to the fact that the Leopard-2A4 tank does not have dynamic protection that counteracts the defeat of cumulative ammunition.
"Any grenade launcher, any ATGM (anti-tank guided missile - TASS note) copes with it," he said.

Suvorov recalled that these German tanks are in service with the Turkish army and were used in operations against Kurdish formations in Syria, as a result of which Turkey lost several Leopards. At the same time, according to the expert, the tanks were hit by grenade launchers.

“The appearance of new tanks in the Ukrainian army will not change anything, the name will simply change - instead of the T-64 there will be a Leopard,” Suvorov said. “And if three people die during the destruction of the T-64, then four people will die here.”

"There is such a concept - the optimal combination of the combat properties of a tank. There are four of them: firepower, security, mobility and command controllability. They must be optimally combined.

The Challenger has excellent protection, average firepower," the expert said, noting the high mass of the "British", which reduces mobility, imposes restrictions on the type of bridges that the tank can pass, on the overall cross-country ability of a heavy vehicle.

Suvorov said that the British tank has a gun with separate loading, that is, a crew member must manually insert the gun into the breech and send the projectile first, and then the sleeve. “He still fires the first three shots at a normal pace, and then ... The loader’s work can be compared with the work of an automatic loader, like a stair runner with an elevator.

They reach the second floor at the same time - maybe the runner even comes running a little earlier, but before the tenth floor the elevator usually comes first, not to mention the 16th, "said the specialist, noting the peculiarity of both British and German tanks.


Political aspect

"These new, as yet announced deliveries indicate that the possibilities of the collective West to supply Ukraine with Soviet-style weapons, created at the production facilities of Eastern Europe, built back in Soviet times, are ending," Alexander Mikhailov, head of the Bureau of Military-Political Analysis: All possible Eastern European arsenals have already been objectively cleared, that is, all this was disposed of on the territory of Ukraine during the 11 months of the special operation.

Now the situation for the collective West is a stalemate: they need to continue deliveries, explaining to their collective voters why so many dollars were spent to support Ukraine, and demonstrate to the whole world that the collective West is still stronger than Russia."

Mikhailov noted that Western countries, using the media, have been convincing for a year that Russia is about to lose in this conflict, it just needs to make a little more effort. However, everything happens the other way around: Russia retains its advantage, won back 100 thousand square meters. km of territory, it included four new regions, which are freed from the remnants of Ukrainian units.

“Accordingly, there is a need to clean up European national arsenals from armored vehicles. Here, another plan of the Americans is being implemented, which fits into the general outline of this big game — that when Europe gives Ukraine everything that is left from the era of the Warsaw Pact, it will begin deliveries of their own weapons, which are produced by the European defense complex, the expert believes.
“Of course, neither the Germans, nor the British, nor other arms manufacturers in Europe – France, Italy, Poland – do not want to demonstrate the inconsistency of their weapons, because they will definitely burn on the territory of Ukraine, because they will be hit by our anti-tank weapons.”

According to Mikhailov, the continuation of the scenario will be the need for European countries to purchase American weapons, from which only the United States will benefit.

Mikhailov expressed the opinion that British tanks would be used far from the line of clashes (for example, in Western Ukraine) as a "demonstration company", training vehicles, and also for shooting propaganda stories. "No one wants there, in the West, that the business cards of their defense industrial complex (the military-industrial complex - approx. TASS) burned out in the first place," he said.

The head of the Bureau of Military-Political Analysis believes that the announced deliveries will in no way affect the course of the special operation. "To change the course of events, you need to supply tanks by the thousands," he said. "During the military operation, Russia destroyed more than 3,000 Ukrainian tanks. <...> The front line is 1,200 km. What can a tank company do? It will fight for a day or two, and in a week our valiant servicemen will burn them," he said Mikhailov.

“Naturally, every armored vehicle, every ammunition that the West supplies to the territory of Ukraine is a problem for the Russian group, which is reflected in the loss of personnel and military equipment, but to change the course of the military campaign, more armored vehicles are needed, which simply do not exist,” the expert said.

The same opinion was expressed by the British newspaper The Guardian. The publication noted, citing experts from the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, that Ukraine needs at least 100 tanks for a counteroffensive. At the same time, the UK, as the newspaper added, cannot sharply increase their deliveries due to the small number in its own armed forces. The Guardian noted that 13 NATO countries have more than 2.3 thousand Leopard-2 tanks, but their condition may be far from combat readiness.

Raphael Loss, project coordinator of the European Council on Foreign Relations, in an article in the German magazine Spiegel calls for considering the transfer of British tanks to Ukraine as a political signal of support, but does not know if this step will be enough to "break the deadlock." Loss believes that the Challenger 2 is definitely superior to the tanks used by Ukraine to date.

"The advantages in combat value are outweighed by logistical problems - for example, with the supply of spare parts," he says, noting that a third to a half of armored vehicles usually need to be repaired and maintained during operation.

The author of an article in the American Military Watch Magazine believes that the UK decided to transfer the Challengers to Kiev because their production has long been discontinued, and the export potential is low, unlike the German Leopards or the American Abrams.
This means that you should not be afraid of image losses in the event of the destruction of these vehicles in the special operation zone.
German Cabinet spokesman Steffen Hebestreit said during a briefing that the German government has not yet received specific requests for the re-export of German-made tanks. Such deliveries cannot be carried out without the permission of Berlin.


T-90M - "tank of the great victory"

If British and German tanks appear in the zone of a special military operation, they will collide with the Russian T-90M Proryv tank, the most advanced vehicle of the T-90 family, most adapted to operations in modern combat conditions. It is equipped with all-round protection, a modern all-day highly automated fire control system, a set of measures to increase survivability and crew protection has been implemented in it, a new, more powerful engine of 1,130 hp has been installed.
The main armament of the Proryv is a 125-mm smoothbore gun capable of firing new high-powered ammunition, as well as guided missiles that can hit enemy tanks at a distance of up to 5 km. The new multi-channel sight ensures the use of weapons at any time of the day. The T-90M is able to exchange data with other machines in real time, which has become one of the main features of the upgraded machine.

According to the tankers, in a few months of use, "Breakthrough" has proven itself well. The servicemen note that the tank withstands hits due to composite armor, and high maneuverability allows you to quickly move on the battlefield.

The participants of the special operation dubbed the T-90M the "tank of the great victory" by analogy with the legendary T-34, which participated in the Great Patriotic War.

“It has been improved: the crew is reliably protected, the tank commander, that is, I am already sitting inside, I don’t have to get out into the street, reload the Kord [machine gun] and fire — I do all this from the inside,” Ruslan, the tank commander, shares his impressions. - Surveillance devices have been improved, I have a panorama, I can look at 360 degrees, and I don’t have to turn my head, I can see everything on the computer. I can also communicate with neighboring tanks without getting in touch, just write them the coordinates, we drive there, and we work together. Our T-90 was blown up by an anti-tank mine, the caterpillar was not damaged, only the roller was torn off, and it left the combat zone under its own power, the entire crew is intact. "

The conveyors of the Nizhny Tagil Uralvagonzavod, which produces tank equipment, have been switched to a round-the-clock mode of operation. On January 12, the company announced that it had sent another batch of T-90Ms to the RF Ministry of Defense.

TASS; Viktor Bodrov, Georgy Sultanov

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16828901

What this shows is that the western countries are really all in to save the petrodollar. The roulette table is spinning and they have put all their chips on red.

It would be logical that a lot of the delivery so far are not gifts out of kindness but actually have been exchanged in return for Ukraine property. Land, buildings, exploitation rights. With Russia taking ownership that is a major financial loss for the western countries.

Meanwhile the middle east are not giving in to pricing demands, ceilings, production increases and just announced the ability to exchange oil against other currencies. The dollar is losing negotiating power rapidly, and this will mean a total collapse of their imaginary financial system relying on debt and bullying power.

It's also dangerous because they will act like a cornered animal. Acting frantically, taking more risk, trying to poke the bear. We will see if the conflict grows larger than it already is but I think the consecutive Iraq, Afghan, Syrian, and Libyan conflicts and now depleting major stock in terms of ammunition and weaponry seriously weakened western offensive capabilities to make a real fist. And it will take a decade or more to strengthen again.

https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1674113264638096.gif

Ukraine tanks got fucked in so many different ways from helicopters to land launched ATGMs, at least the Germans are smart trying to get the Abrams in so everyone that has a market potential to sell their tank products will get fucked.

January 19, 09:52
Military operation in Ukraine

Poland intends to do "the right way" if the FRG (Germany) does not agree to the transfer of tanks to Kiev
The republic has already decided to transfer up to 14 cars to Ukraine

WARSAW, 19 January. /TASS/. Poland will do what it thinks is right if it does not receive permission from Germany to supply Ukraine with Leopard tanks as soon as possible. Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki announced this on Thursday to the Polsat TV channel.

According to him, Poland has agreed with Ukrainian partners, as well as partners from Western Europe, that they will transfer tanks together. "Consent here is a matter of the second rank," Morawiecki pointed out.

"We'll either get this consent quickly, or we'll do it ourselves," the head of the Polish government stated.

"Now the most important thing is that Germany, but not only, also the Danes, Finns, French and other nations, but above all Germany, offer their modern tanks, their modern equipment as soon as possible," Morawiecki said.

Poland expects to receive permission from the FRG in the shortest possible time to send a company of Leopard tanks to Ukraine. The republic has already decided to transfer up to 14 such machines to Kiev. Warsaw is striving to create an international coalition that will transfer heavy modern weapons to Ukraine.

https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/16835147

Any decision about sending L2 is utterly stupid.
From all the perspectives, but the logistics being main issue here.
With the latest purchases, Poland will get multiple tanks with Rh120 guns (or the one Hyundai makes, but it is compatible).
Sending L2s depletes the stock of relatively good tanks with existing logistic chains, that Polish MIC already mastered and is keen to make its modernization or produce ammunition for it. Some even don't explode randomly
Same time, we retain 233 pcs of PT-91A, which is dramatically outdated.
Not the tank itself, as it is just fine - but the gun and ammo for it. It is the same old gun incapable to stand high pressure charges and using short rounds only. Serious modernization projects were presented for years, but to make it a modern tank requires a whole reconstruction that will create a brand new tank in reality.
Still, this model would be useful for the Ukrs, while keeping the old Soviet heritage they are used to. They can operate and repair it by their own means.
So my guess is, that Ukro stocks of Soviet origin ammo and spares is nonexistent at the moment. Absolutely nonexistent, so it is not a factor for any decisions anymore.
And that is what I find weird, as lots of ex WarPac countries retained at least SOME potential for producing parts and ammo for T-72 line. Poland, Czech, Slovakia and Bulgaria should be capable to deliver de facto everything, including the guns, engines and ammunition.
Where is a catch then?!?

Lets face it. He quit 'cos he knows the ship is sinking and its time to get out

This guy who quit for instance... western criminal politicians never quit... doesn't mean he is pro Russian, but it could mean he realises Ukraine is being used by the west and it is destroying his people... and without people you really don't have a country any more. There will be many politicians in Ukraine waiting for the situation to be just right to turn on their US and EU overlords for the benefit of the people of the Ukraine, and there will be lots more that will change to that position when it happens because they don't want to be put in jail etc... but of course many are guilty of all sorts of shit and so will fight tooth and nail against such a thing and will end up running to the west with all the money and resources they can gather together. wrote:

US Plans to Include Stryker Vehicles in New Ukraine Aid Package

The US plans to send about 100 Stryker armored vehicles to Ukraine as part of a new package of military aid worth about $2.5 billion, adding another more powerful weapons system that it had previously withheld, people familiar with the matter said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-18/us-weighs-stryker-vehicles-for-ukraine-aid-package-set-for-friday

Soon these Leopard 2 tanks could be part of the exposition of the "Patriot" park near Moscow...

It will look just fine with his grandpas.

Sweden just announced it will send 50 CV90s, more NLW (RB57) and up to 24 Archer Artillery System to Ukraine.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/direktrapport-forsamrat-sakerhetslage#:~:text=Sverige%20kommer%20att,och%20sj%C3%B6m%C3%A5lsrobot%2017.

Not a place to try to get some sleep in methinks

GEROMAN -- time will tell - --
@GeromanAT
·
1h
the stronghold
(via Militarymaps)

RF (Wagner PMC) took Klishchiivka
(how ever - without the fortification in the north the thing is not done yet)

TOS accepts this challenge.

Edit :
Another interesting and telling story :

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/75824

The guy is a unit commander of 28 OMBR who was taken POW in Soledar. His job is transporting bodies to the Ukro side.
He is thankful to Wagner soldiers for the respect presented to fallen enemies.
What reminds me on spot of the bodies of two Wagner pilots, recovered by the Ukrainians and returned to Wagner with full honors. Prigozin addressed his personal gratitude later.
So as we see, humanity does exist even in face of this dirty&bloody war.

Edit 2 :

This is hilarious



The headlines about heli crash are using FOUR different names for a heli so fluent they are in Ukrainian

ZOKA
@200_zoka
Kleshcheevka is ours. Confirmed by Wagner.

“We can safely say that the settlement of Kleshcheevka, which is one of the important suburbs of Bakhmut, has been completely taken under the control of the Wagner PMC units,” said Yevgeny Prigozhin. -

And rockets fired from 150km will be in the air longer for those SAMs to bring them down.

The thing is a glide bomb and will be slower. 


Plane in Nikolaev hit. Drone strike?

So once the tank get destroyed what will be the new game changer weapon they will send ?

They are gradually increasing the firepower they send. Those assholes may end up giving some 155mm nuclear shells. When you see the level of thinking of those people like that finish party girl this may end up in a nuk war.