Russian special military operation in Ukraine #41

famschopman wrote:I'm not expert in this area but this is what my perception is. Driving, chilling, firing. Hatch open.

Yes this is pretty much standard practice in NATzo tank warfare doctrine. This is something learned from the Israeli experience - giving you a better field of view. The downside is that your commander is extremely vulnerable to sniper and artillery fire - not to mention NBC warfare. This was never a standard Soviet practice and was always heavily criticized by Western "experts". But then again pretty much of the whole concept of a Soviet tank was always considered inferior to Western standards.

Ukrainian military calls Artyomovsk 'Hell On Earth', says Spanish media, 03.31.2023.

A Ukrainian military official called the city of Artyomovsk (Bakhmut, in the Ukrainian denomination)" hell on Earth, " Spanish newspaper El País reports.

A 26-year-old soldier named Gennady, who worked for a technology company and who joined the Ukrainian army without any combat experience, told the publication that three months ago the city was "an absolute horror."

"But now I simply do not see how to keep it [Artyomovsk], with so many victims. I don't think it makes much sense," he laments.

According to the publication, the Ukrainian military officer calls Artyomovsk "Hell On Earth" and "the most dangerous hole on the planet."

According to Gennady, civilians remain in the city. He noted that Ukrainian troops know that some pro-Russian residents are waiting for the Russians to arrive, and therefore they will not leave.

Artyomovsk is located in the Kiev-controlled part of the Donetsk Republic, north of the large city of Gorlovka. It is an important transport hub for the supply of Ukrainian forces in Donbass.

According to the latest reports, Russian forces have cut off or taken under control all asphalted roads to the city. The mud of the European spring is seriously hindering the delivery of ammunition and reinforcement of personnel to Ukrainian troops.

Recently, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky said that residents of the country and the international community began to put pressure on the authorities to reach a compromise with Russia if the Ukrainian Armed Forces are defeated in Artyomovsk.

He added that any loss at this stage of the conflict could undermine the morale of Ukrainian troops.

Yandex Translate from Portuguese

https://sputniknewsbrasil.com.br/20230331/militar-ucraniano-chama-artyomovsk-de-inferno-na-terra-diz-midia-espanhola-28264412.html

A criminal case was opened against two military personnel of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for violating the rules of combat duty, which led to grave consequences. This is reported by TASS , referring to the joint press service of the courts of St. Petersburg .

As the press service of the courts told the agency, this case is classified.

At the same time, the Kommersant newspaper, citing sources close to the investigation, wrote that the Russian officer was accused of failing to prevent the attack of Ukrainian troops on Russian territory, which was accompanied by mass deaths and injuries of military personnel and the destruction and damage military equipment.

According to the publication, a criminal case under Part 2 of Article 340 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation was opened in the spring of 2022 due to the rocket attack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) on the military in the Belgorod region . The 1st Department of the Military Investigation Directorate of the TFR for the Western Military District (ZVO) believes that this could have happened due to insufficient coverage of the airspace in the border zone by means of air defense (Air Defense).

Kommersant reported that as a result of the attack, seven Russian servicemen were killed, and 43 more people were wounded and shell-shocked. In addition, during the shelling, 15 pieces of equipment were destroyed and 30 pieces of equipment were damaged, the damage amounted to 89 million rubles.

As stated in the TASS report, the St. Petersburg Garrison Military Court on Friday, March 31, "announced two decisions on the extension of preventive measures in the form of detention against" two Russian servicemen "accused of committing a crime under Part 2 of Art. 340 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (violation of the rules of combat duty).

One of the accused was extended the term of detention until July 2 inclusive, the second - until May 5 (it is known that he has been under arrest since May 2022).

https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/news/2023/03/31/20106991.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

Since the beginning of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine, the number of not only the so-called "couch experts", but also Telegram channels, "military analysts" commenting on certain aspects of military operations, has grown significantly, and the free use of terminology has exceeded all conceivable limits. The military observer of Gazeta.Ru, Mikhail Khodarenok, figured out what was wrong with the “barrage of fire tactics”, why there are no “operational encirclements”, and “delivery of ammunition” is possible only on AliExpress.

This week, a number of sources reported that the assault on Bakhmut continues, with the troops using the “barrage of fire” tactics.

First, to begin with, we note that it is not a “fiery” shaft, but a fire one. Secondly, the fire shaft in this case has nothing to do with tactics. It is included in the so-called types of fire, which artillery uses in the performance of fire missions. The firing shaft refers to the accompanying lights (they include a movable firing zone, the actual firing shaft and the consistent concentration of fire).

These lights are used during the period of artillery support for an attack with the aim of continuously advancing the attacking motorized rifle (tank) subunits and units.

The fire bar is used to break through enemy defenses prepared in advance and developed in engineering terms with a pronounced system of trenches and cut-off positions.The main lines of the fire shaft are given the names of predatory animals.

That is, in the sentence “the assault on Bakhmut continues, while the troops use the tactics of a “barrage of fire”, at least a mistake, and this is without any exaggeration, an ideological plan. When conducting combat operations in special conditions (and these include the assault on cities and battles in conditions of dense urban and industrial development), a barrage of fire is not used.

In this case, call lights, single target lights, concentrated lights, concentrated overlay lights (i.e., one point of aim) and a number of other types of lights can be used.

Or it is enough to say the now frequently used phrase "delivery of ammunition to the city of N is difficult at the present time" to demonstrate complete ignorance of the subject with just a few words. Delivery happens only in AliExpress. The Armed Forces are transporting materiel. Currently, at least three methods of delivery are known - the transport of each instance works in its own delivery link (delivery is carried out "from oneself"); transport works in a higher level of supply (delivery is carried out "on one's own"); transport operates in two or three adjacent links (“from oneself”, “to oneself”).

And the troops are not supplied with “ammunition”, but with material means - ammunition, fuel, food, military equipment. On the way back, the wounded and sick are taken away, spent shells from artillery pieces for their subsequent re-equipment. And the ammunition is a settlement and supply unit. Such units in the Armed Forces are: for ammunition - ammunition, for fuel and rocket fuel - refueling, for food - daily dacha.

Thus, the ammunition load is the amount of ammunition installed per weapon or combat vehicle (tank, aircraft, helicopter, etc.). It would be more correct to say - "in order to successfully carry out the upcoming combat missions, the troops concentrated up to five rounds of ammunition, up to 10 fuel refueling, more than 15 daily food distributions."

Or, the term "ground operation" is almost firmly embedded in the mass consciousness of Russian citizens. But in fact, operations are combined arms (common naval). Combined-arms operations include, for example, front-line (army, corps) operations, as well as a strategic aerospace operation, an operation of strategic nuclear forces and strategic operations in a theater of operations. That is, there can be no "ground operations" in principle. In the same front-line (army, corps) sometimes all types of the Armed Forces and branches of troops (forces) are involved - from long-range aviation to flotillas of diverse forces.

Very often today, analysts use the phrase "operational (tactical) environment." Hardly a day goes by without someone inserting those two or three words into their post.

In fact, there is no such term in the theory of operational art (and never has been). There are, for example, forms of operational maneuver. These include, in particular, frontal (cutting) strikes in one or more directions, cutting off strikes, operational detour (girth), strikes in converging directions. It is in the latter case that the encirclement of enemy troops (forces) can take place, and then the encircled grouping will be dissected and destroyed piecemeal.

But the environment - and this should be emphasized especially - is also the environment in Africa. It actually either exists or it doesn't.The words “almost”, “a little bit left”, “a little more”, “we are already controlling by 70%” so often used today are absolutely not applicable here. And the expressions “practically surrounded”, “are in the operational (tactical) environment” have nothing to do with reality at all.Comrade Stalin dismissed even the chiefs of staff of the fronts for such reports.

It would seem that all of the above can be attributed only to petty and formal cavils of a military cracker, which do not affect the essence of the issue. However, this is not the case. As Napoleon Bonaparte said, to name correctly is to understand correctly. You get confused in the little things, so you do not understand the main thing. It is well known that if military terminology is used incorrectly, in the end, the output may not be information, but disinformation.

NOTE: wonder if some here might suffer from this or perhaps I'm wrong

Can all y’all please stop wasting server space ranting about irrelevant bullshit like fumes?

Guys from Karelia

PapaDragon Today at 4:02 pm

Can all y’all please stop wasting server space ranting about irrelevant bullshit like fumes?

They could be arguing about welding seams

FP wrote:Loading shells into the breach with a gas mask on is some hardcore nonsense

Reminds me of my military service when we had a bunch of people being forced to do pushups and running for an hour in gas masks and NBC suits. Not good.

Welcome to 2000s Lithuanian army.


About the tank holes, well, with FPV drones arriving en masse and doing this shit, I would worry about hatches, not much about grenades being thrown in, although that happened too.



Mil informer posted video from Z side, DNR tankist who fought from 2016. He claims that tank engines are destroyed by UKR drones during night-time. And he is also
saying that he has no clue how to fight drones as they are come randomly, after week one is spotted or so. Hence why it's attriting tanks that are parked.

Talks about NLAWs and other "american" AT weapons, says that nothing helps against them, tanks "throw hats" after one hit.
Doesn't even mention the fume extractor. Tank engines are giving up, the barrels are being used up due to usage, all from overuse.

https://vk.com/video/@milinfolive?z=video-123538639_456296816%2Fclub123538639%2Fpl_-123538639_-2

abrams tank crew can fire a round every 7 seconds ad that's the min if you cannot meet that you will not pass your TCGST

It is always interesting to see speed comparisons of the manual loading speed of a single piece 120mm HATO ammunition with two piece 125mm Soviet one and then claim that automatic loaders are inferior to manual loading as a result. Especially when the two piece ammo automatic loader will load rounds faster than the single piece manual loader after just a couple of rounds. Because the automatic loader does not get tired unlike the manual one.

Because you do not have a loader crewman, the tank turret is smaller, the whole tank is smaller, and it can weigh 45t instead of 70t. It can pass most bridges in Eastern Europe, unlike the Abrams or the Leopard 2. Why is it that all modern Western tanks have automatic loaders, be it the Leclerc, the K2, or the Type 10?

"We don't want to start a counter-offensive that is not prepared. We now have about 50-60 tanks from the West, but the Russians, as now and in the past, are capable of producing or bringing combat capability up to ten tanks a day. And this means that we will still have a long time we will be unable to achieve a decisive advantage on the battlefield," the diplomat said.

https://ria.ru/20230331/kontrnastuplenie-1862275384.html

They are wearing the gas maks because

A. if the NBC system fails, all tanks have those there
B. The NBC system isn't active hence the need even if you open the hatch, if the NBC system isn't on you are still required to wear masks.

The T-90 along with most Russian tanks has a fume extractor mounted on the gun already... but if it was a problem then it would only be during firing... breathing equipment that does not cover your whole head like NBC equipment (because if it is just for fumes it wont need to cover everything) could be used.

I seem to recall that for river crossing exercises they are issued with small aqualung systems with mouthpiece like a diver would use for the 20 minutes max it would take to escape a tank in trouble... they could have equipment that is multi purpose...

In regards to the abram's ammo, Unless you get a sweet side shot at the turret it's not a problem, you will not get the ammo via a frontal hit, and if your shoot at the side, well the tank is dead anyways, so this is an extremely moot point

Tanks move on the battlefield and the vehicles and the turrets change direction all the time... you can get sweet side shots on an Abrams from any direction at all when they turn the turret or the hull or both.

The autoloaders on the t72s, 80s etc have their fair share of problems, t90, for example, its ROF is about 7-8 rounds a minute but once it fires those 22 rounds then you need to reload the loader and that takes time. The loader can fail causing big problems etc.

And human loaders can get injured when bouncing cross country and get tired loading lots of rounds straight...

I'm not expert in this area but this is what my perception is. Driving, chilling, firing. Hatch open.

Most tank crews prefer to operate hatches open... an escape for noise and smells, and the ability to see the battlefield directly... the more eyes, the better you are to see threats close by... including drones... most tanks don't have the cameras that upgraded Russian tanks and other vehicles have that should allow them to operate hatch closed because on the T-14 there are no crew hatches on top of the turret.... those are loading and maintenance hatches.

Seems like some kind of drone scatter shot

The Russians now seem to be using drones to find Ukrainian infantry and are using automatic grenade launchers to fire bursts at the targets and then using the vision of the drones on target to then correct for more accurate follow up shots.

This is very clever, first of all because the grenades are area weapons so do not need direct hits and firing bursts of grenades can cover an area with fragments that would be hard to evade because as you can see they all arrive nearly together.

Problems in the past have been a drone sees a group of enemy troops and drops a small hand grenade... some troops are injured and everyone else scatters but the drone could only carry one or two grenades so end of engagement.

This way large numbers of enemy troops can be engaged and you could use more than one grenade launcher too... the small bombs means HE is more efficiently being used because they spread fragments around the area more efficiently than bigger heavier bombs.

With heavier rounds the slower rate of fire means more time to hit the dirt which means follow up rounds are less effective... but the Russians have a range of airburst 30mm and 40mm grenades that could all be arriving together...

The line of the explosions in that video indicate the direction the grenades were coming from but these grenade launchers are light and mobile and hopefully move often... or are vehicle mounted to maintain a high rate of fire.

This is something learned from the Israeli experience - giving you a better field of view.

To be fair the Germans did it in WWII too... the improved situational awareness and feel for the battlefield was considered more useful than the threat of snipers... of course in places with lots of enemy snipers or in urban areas they would probably change tactics... they are not idiots.

Very good example of how those rocket strikes work Look at the impact, very grouped together For all those who criticize lobbing rockets wrote:

I was pretty sure they were using gefest or another system as I watched a vid and you could hear a tone just when the rockets were launched. That is a superb grouping in a stand of trees and anything there would have been annihilated. Great to see how this tactic works on the receiving end. Quite cheap and devastating.

Having the hatch open would let more smoke from the gun into the crew compartment, but it also allows it to ventilate away faster. In combat the hatches would be closed and fans would be running, but these are big guns and lots of smoke is a byproduct of firing them.

Garry ,by fans you mean the ventilation system like the below one ? which part is exactly responsible for getting out the remaining smoke inside the crew compartment ? the other thing , is the system filtering the air only from outside to inside or it can filter also the air inside the crew compartment ?

Why is it that all modern Western tanks have automatic loaders

ERA was useless and dangerous until the Americans put it onto the M1 in Iraq in 2005 or so. 




Data from Col. MacGregor

Garry ,by fans you mean the ventilation system like the below one ? which part is exactly responsible for getting out the remaining smoke inside the crew compartment ? the other thing , is the system filtering the air only from outside to inside or it can filter also the air inside the crew compartment ?

The point is that with the hatches shut the air coming into the tank is via the air conditioning system, so when the gun breach is opened to empty the shell case and load a new round the air pressure inside the tank is higher than the air pressure outside the tank (ie at the other end of the gun barrel which remains open)... which means the smoke from firing a main gun round wont enter the crew compartment in the first place.

ERA was useless and dangerous until the Americans put it onto the M1 in Iraq in 2005 or so

Smooth bore tanks were inaccurate until the Germans started making some 120mm guns.

The point is that with the hatches shut the air coming into the tank is via the air conditioning system, so when the gun breach is opened to empty the shell case and load a new round the air pressure inside the tank is higher than the air pressure outside the tank (ie at the other end of the gun barrel which remains open)... which means the smoke from firing a main gun round wont enter the crew compartment in the first place.

But in all tanks still some amount of the smoke reach to the crew compartment , i was wondering if the turret fans still there in T-90 to get this amount of smoke out , any design layout for this fan ?

For T-34 there was a fan as per the below drawing , but for T-90 i didn't find one



T-90 turret

God, are we still talking about ventilation systems on tanks?

God, are we still talking about ventilation systems on tanks?

Cool, isn´t it? 

Still better than "muh, best troops..." or "spring-offensive...!"

In the shelter of some VDV unit the letters from children are kept in a prominent place.

Some reliable source on Twitter stated that the glide bomb kit
is now in "mass-production" and that soon dozens if not 100+
attacks will happen each day.

This is the version for 100, 250 and 500kg bombs. There is suppoesedly another version for 1.500kg bombs.

God, are we still talking about ventilation systems on tanks?

Cool, isn´t it? lol1

Still better than "muh, best troops..." or "spring-offensive...!"

Where you here for the great welding seams war? Now that was epic

You could make a book out of this this pages on pages of comments about welding.
From people that never welded something in their whole life.  



Modern warfare. 

I hope they send it back to the Ukros.