Prigozhin mutiny thread

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Yes, the lack of actual response from Moscow makes this bizarre.  The government can end it now but they haven't.

Since we are all in tin foil hat land, I wonder if NATzO did not have deeply embedded assets in Russia on which it was banking for regime change.
NATzO has been dementedly cocky about regime change in Russia if one assumes that they were expecting some propaganda induced popular
uprising.   We have seen how the 1990s ushered in an era of hard core comprador elites in the former USSR.   Ukraine is a fine example.   Russia
cannot be immune even if it did not go down the Ukraine path.   So a large fraction of the 1990s ascendant elite may be still on NATzO's "payroll"
and has been biding its time after Putin put the clamps down in the early 2000s.   He did not exterminate them, so they are still a risk.  

I have no information about the level of threat from the comprador elite faction but these events indicate that they are not toothless.   This seems
to be another purge opportunity moment like the period shortly after the start of the SVO where a slew of 5th column idiots ran off to the west.  
Putin needs to root out the slime from the 1990s once and for all.

par far wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Yes, the lack of actual response from Moscow makes this bizarre.  The government can end it now but they haven't.

The reason that they are not "ending it fast" is that they don't want any bloodshed inside Russia, there are likely high level diplomatic negations going on with Wagner.

kvs wrote:Since we are all in tin foil hat land, I wonder if NATzO did not have deeply embedded assets in Russia on which it was banking for regime change.
NATzO has been dementedly cocky about regime change in Russia if one assumes that they were expecting some propaganda induced popular
uprising.   We have seen how the 1990s ushered in an era of hard core comprador elites in the former USSR.   Ukraine is a fine example.   Russia
cannot be immune even if it did not go down the Ukraine path.   So a large fraction of the 1990s ascendant elite may be still on NATzO's "payroll"
and has been biding its time after Putin put the clamps down in the early 2000s.   He did not exterminate them, so they are still a risk.  

I have no information about the level of threat from the comprador elite faction but these events indicate that they are not toothless.   This seems
to be another purge opportunity moment like the period shortly after the start of the SVO where a slew of 5th column idiots ran off to the west.  
Putin needs to root out the slime from the 1990s once and for all.

par far wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Yes, the lack of actual response from Moscow makes this bizarre.  The government can end it now but they haven't.

The reason that they are not "ending it fast" is that they don't want any bloodshed inside Russia, there are likely high level diplomatic negations going on with Wagner.

Isos wrote:Wagner soldiers are there just for money. They won't start a war against Russian forces. This all staged. Get real. Most are not even Russians.

PapaDragon wrote:You are seeing nation collapsing from within

It's been nearly a day and that clown is still alive?

What a fùcking joke of a country

sepheronx wrote:

par far wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Yes, the lack of actual response from Moscow makes this bizarre.  The government can end it now but they haven't.

The reason that they are not "ending it fast" is that they don't want any bloodshed inside Russia, there are likely high level diplomatic negations going on with Wagner.

I doubt that.

In such situations, they need to be dealt with harshly to set an example to others who may attempt the same thing. We seen in the past how quick Russian military and or security forces can mobilize and take control of a situation - see Kazakhstan as recent example.  The VDV can end this quickly and yet, nothing. It's as if what papa is saying is correct, death of a government showing itself. Because if this goes unpunished, it ends badly for Russia one way or another.

In any case they can't let this continue. It should have ended quickly with Prigohzin either dead or arrested. They didn't. They decided to ignore him until he became a reap problem.

sepheronx wrote:So what do you think then? That intelligence is trying to bring  down MoD on their own accord?

par far wrote:The best thing that Russia can do now is, put an end quickly to Prigozhin and Wagner situation and just level Ukraine.

Regular wrote:

par far wrote:The best thing that Russia can do now is, put an end quickly to Prigozhin and Wagner situation and just level Ukraine.

I don’t think Russia can leave Ukraine, UA side clearly said they want Crimea. They will be an existential treath

Hannibal Barca wrote:For me this Prigozin coup et at is a bless in disguise. It will finally end, one way or an other, the chaos within the Russian forces.
On the other hand it is highly unlikely that Russia will exist this crisis stronger.

flamming_python wrote:
Would all be a fine hypothesis if not for the fact that Wagner is staffed with Russian military intelligence and they would have all had to have gone along with this whole escapade, and none of them reported to their superiors in Moscow to warn of events. Was it Prigozhin's infallible charisma at work here?

kvs wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Would all be a fine hypothesis if not for the fact that Wagner is staffed with Russian military intelligence and they would have all had to have gone along with this whole escapade, and none of them reported to their superiors in Moscow to warn of events. Was it Prigozhin's infallible charisma at work here?

Well, the US is a counter-example.   The infiltration of loyal elements into the security structures can be extensive and effective.   Russia, thankfully, is not
at the US Democrap control level but we have no way of dismissing that the GRU elements in Wagner are not compromised.   The bread and butter of elites
is games of power.  

par far wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Yes, the lack of actual response from Moscow makes this bizarre.  The government can end it now but they haven't.

The reason that they are not "ending it fast" is that they don't want any bloodshed inside Russia, there are likely high level diplomatic negations going on with Wagner.