ArgentinaGuard wrote:As I have seen, Wagner's troops are appreciated by many Russians precisely because they are nationalists. In addition, the figure of Prigozhin always at the front contrasts with the bureaucrats of the generals In the end Prigozhin gave in and went to Biolorussia.
They are appreciated because they're on the frontlines risking their lives, not because of their political views - which we don't know, nor because of Prigozhin's views or abrasive behavior. Because they're fighting to protect Russians so of course they will be appreciated by the common people regardless of whatever intrigues are going on or whosever's overly complicated psyops operations.
Well I guess it's too early to judge as now we're faced with a cliffhanger until the next series of this saga is filmed. This time on-stage in Gomel, Belarus, or maybe Bobruisk. But hopefully rather in Kiev.
Hole wrote: La última línea todavía está en debate.
Dado que Prigozhin no irá a juicio, simplemente estaba llevando a cabo la orden de Putin. La pregunta es ¿cuál era el objetivo? ¿Compruebas Shoigu? ¿ Gerasimov? IMHO improbable pero hay muchos "generales de parquet" (Rus: паркетные генералы) que nunca participaron en guerras, totalmente inadecuados para liderar unidades. Pobre en la guerra, pero bueno en los juegos de oficina y haciendo que la vida sea mejor. Tal vez tanto que están listos para trabajar con el enemigo para volver a los "buenos viejos tiempos" Prighozin estaba reclamando sobre los traidores en el personal general hace algún tiempo. Veamos qué pasa ahora[/cita]
It may be that everything is planned to expose traitors, even within the government. A false flag revolt. Meanwhile, you leave the West and the Ukrainians baffled as you prepare a counteroffensive.
I was not your enemy and I am not now. Yes, I'm quick-tempered and quick to react - that's what my horoscope says too. I got so mad today reading what others are writing that I felt like smashing my keyboard. I've written a MILLION times "the match is played until the referee blows the whistle" but apparently it's not worth it. And while some like you and me publish news related to military technologies, others just fart and spit. If you can keep quiet about all that - I can't.
To Papadragon....
Man, stop screwing people on this forum.. At least I write what I think while you don't mean what you write and you're screwing around...
The best video on this coup so far According to Andrei Martyanov (Soviet naval officer), this is indeed a real coup, as bizarre as it seems.
Important takes-
1) The British were involved (confirmed by Medvedev).
2) It's true that cultists shot down a Ka-52 helicopter, resulting in the deaths of two pilots. The military will not forgive cultists for that.
3) Traitor group members would be interrogated and thoroughly screened out. They would face some hard times.
4) Prigo and his cult followers would face harsh punishment.
5) Some top-level GU authorities have been compromised, so expect some head rolling.
6) Some politicians are also compromised, and they would be prosecuted too.
7) Maintain information hygiene and stay away from Russian telegram channels. It doesn't matter which one; all of them are equally garbage and hubs of disinformation or enemy psyops.
Stay away from all News media, including Russian media (RT included, I guess); they're run by stupid people, literal whores, and sellouts.
9) Only the Russian government's statements and Tass reports are credible regarding any information related to this coup.
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ArgentinaGuard wrote:As I have seen, Wagner's troops are appreciated by many Russians precisely because they are nationalists. In addition, the figure of Prigozhin always at the front contrasts with the bureaucrats of the generals In the end Prigozhin gave in and went to Biolorussia.
The best video on this coup so far According to Andrei Martyanov (Soviet naval officer), this is indeed a real coup, as bizarre as it seems.
Important takes-
1) The British were involved (confirmed by Medvedev).
2) It's true that cultists shot down a Ka-52 helicopter, resulting in the deaths of two pilots. The military will not forgive cultists for that.
3) Traitor group members would be interrogated and thoroughly screened out. They would face some hard times.
4) Prigo and his cult followers would face harsh punishment.
5) Some top-level GU authorities have been compromised, so expect some head rolling.
6) Some politicians are also compromised, and they would be prosecuted too.
7) Maintain information hygiene and stay away from Russian telegram channels. It doesn't matter which one; all of them are equally garbage and hubs of disinformation or enemy psyops.
Stay away from all News media, including Russian media (RT included, I guess); they're run by stupid people, literal whores, and sellouts.
9) Only the Russian government's statements and Tass reports are credible regarding any information related to this coup.
I bumped this because it was relegated to the last page.
Martynov is right. This whole thing was choreographed to happen in the last 2 weeks of June when the counter offensive was supposed to have breached the lines. But no lines were breached. But they went ahead with operation Prigozhin anyway.
But some ppl are just laughing this off. Prigozhin being a Nato asset isn't something to laugh off
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ArgentinaGuard wrote:As I have seen, Wagner's troops are appreciated by many Russians precisely because they are nationalists. In addition, the figure of Prigozhin always at the front contrasts with the bureaucrats of the generals In the end Prigozhin gave in and went to Biolorussia.
They are appreciated because they're on the frontlines risking their lives, not because of their political views - which we don't know, nor because of Prigozhin's views or abrasive behavior. Because they're fighting to protect Russians so of course they will be appreciated by the common people regardless of whatever intrigues are going on or whosever's overly complicated psyops operations.
Well I guess it's too early to judge as now we're faced with a cliffhanger until the next series of this saga is filmed. This time on-stage in Gomel, Belarus, or maybe Bobruisk. But hopefully rather in Kiev.
Meant as a response in general and not to one individual.
Wagner killed over a dozen of RF servicemen today in the RF airforce alone. Including one fixed wing unarmed C&C aircraft with about 8 crewmembers. This was not an act of war, it was Treason. They turned from Ally to Hostiles on a dime. They engaged RF assets on RF territory. He. is. a. Traitor. The rat Prigozhin should be tied to the end of a noose and have the chair kicked from under him.
It was not a game, it was not some Matryoshka bullshit. This guy, on some stroke of ultimate derangement came out with an idea to seize power. Trough the lives of RF servicemen.
I know some members here are inclined to believe it is all a hoax. And take my word for it, i did not believe it at first either until i saw the battle footage for myself.
You do not fake taking AA missile fire, Engaging ground targets with ATGM's or an C&C breaking up and falling from the sky in multiple filmed angles. maybe it is because people are in shock, or unwilling to believe those that where once perceived as Heroes turned Enemies in a moment's notice.
While the true enemy supported by NATO is still active, Prigozhin decided to instigate his own little uprising. While RF forces are battling on the front.
I mean,...was there not this unresolved issue in Ukraine?.
Where the RF armed forces are doing their best to send them on a one-way ticket to Bandera that resides in Hell?.
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I have to commend how Putin handled this fake crisis. When you have a lunatic like Prigozhin acting out like this, it’s best not to react hastily and imitate his crazy/insane behavior in-kind. Putin was patient and let him vent and act out, as he usually does, and waited for him to realize the error of his ways and sober up eventually, which is what happened in the end. It’s clear now that Prigozhin needs to be exiled and Wagner broken up and not allowed to have anymore unwarranted influence during this conflict. This is their jump the shark moment, enough is enough.
Most damaging of all though, the doubters and fence sitters in NATO will have been given a tasty morsel of the long dreamed of demise of Putin and collapse of the Russian Gov't. That is ultimately what NATO is hoping for as an acceptable win. The Russian military cannot be defeated
Unfortunately, this episode has given all the crazy neocons just what they needed too prove they are not delusional in their ambitions. It is just what they wanted to pour more fuel on the fire now.
A very sad day for both Russia supporters and all 'neutrals' just hoping for peace.
It was dark, there was bloodshed, but greater bloodshed was avoided
It could have ended in other ways with Prigozhin suiciding by Army
Thankfully it didn't get to that, because it wouldn't have just been him, but his followers and guys who are protecting Russia, and maybe civilians too
I am sad for the pilots who died stopping these psychos, but they will be honored eternally, their sacrifices and those who came before them, and those who will come after them
The good thing is, it didn't devolve into something worse, everything else is just insult to injury
The British would have not only had to have bought out Prigozhin, but a large amount of Wagner's officers, some of Russia's intelligence people, and then somehow kept the whole thing quiet, and nothing leaked to the Russian authorities in advance. And what could they have offered them in return? Exile in their shrinking globalist empire? Riches which Prigozhin has plenty of already and Wagner's officers are probably also already nicely compensated with? These are people with years if not decades of dedication to serving Russia across many warzones, and to their comrades in arms across all of Russia's service branches. You think that NATO can so easily corrupt them and in such a way that word does not make it to Russia's intelligence chiefs?
It's a more improbable scenario than any other you can think of.
We'll see about the shot down aircraft. For now I'm not willing to believe anything until there's confirmation. And the same Telegram channels are not good enough.
Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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billybatts91 wrote:I have to commend how Putin handled this fake crisis. When you have a lunatic like Prigozhin acting out like this, it’s best not to react hastily and imitate his crazy/insane behavior in-kind. Putin was patient and let him vent and act out, as he usually does, and waited for him to realize the error of his ways and sober up eventually, which is what happened in the end. It’s clear now that Prigozhin needs to be exiled and Wagner broken up and not allowed to have anymore unwarranted influence during this conflict. This is their jump the shark moment, enough is enough.
Well no if such a rebellion is real then you execute everyone involved, no ifs no buts and no exiles or whatever. There is no forgiveness for treason in wartime at this scale and no forgiveness for killing brothers in arms. It's equivalent to what General Vlasov and the Russian Liberation Army did during WW2. Were they pardoned or forgiven? If Prigozhin is exiled then that means Russia still has a use for him. Ergo he's not a traitor and therefore this has all been staged to at least some degree. Prigozhin is not particularly popular with his outbursts. He just conveys the impression of a loose cannon, even to those people critical of the 'soft approach' of the Russian authorities. He can be arrested, held to trial or simply eliminated without too many questions in society. If this happens within the next 2-3 days then sure, we can talk of it having been a genuine rebellion. If not then forget about it.
Back during the outbursts he made during the battle of Bakhmut, I suggested that he should be relieved of command as there is a certain risk that he would defect to the enemy, if this whole thing was genuine. But the fact that he was not relieved of his position after that simply suggested to me the same thing - that it was an act and agreed upon in advance.
To some I'm aware it's all instead evidence for the 'weakness' of the Russian authorities and their incompetence or lack of decisiveness or whatever. But the Russian authorities have never shown themselves to be weak to proven enemies, such as the Chechen terrorists. Why would they give Prigozhin a pass?
Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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Not a lot of this make sense and maskirovka even less.
I have a theory or something along these lines, it would make sense especially considering how it ended.
Prigos public outbursts caused a fallout with Putin, he got worried about his safety, especially after MOD decree about mercs and volunteers so he had an even worse outburst to rile up wagner troops and pretend he was on some glorious mission to fight corruption and negligence, then used the potential risk of bloodshed , which no one wanted , to weasel his way out and retire in Belarus getting amnesty. That makes more sense to me than some 19D chess move to draw Ukrops out while making a mockery of your countries stability.
This Press TV Moscow correspondent is CIA asset. She was activated in this interview. Listen to her 3 minutes in. She reads her CIA lines. It is tiring to see the CIA run circles around Russia and Iran. Gilbert Doctorow speaks after her.
https://www.urmedium.net/c/presstv/124778
From Gilberts blog
My fellow panelist who was introduced as Press TV’s correspondent in Moscow delivered some extravagant statements on how the Russian government has been an unmitigated disaster and why the whole nation supports Yevgeny Prigozhin in his bid to overthrow the regime.
Those statements seem to have been unexpected by our hosts in Teheran. I assume they were not welcome there since for most of the rest of the 27 minutes on air, I was invited to talk and to talk, which I did.
Serberus wrote:Not a lot of this make sense and maskirovka even less.
I have a theory or something along these lines, it would make sense especially considering how it ended.
Prigos public outbursts caused a fallout with Putin, he got worried about his safety, especially after MOD decree about mercs and volunteers so he had an even worse outburst to rile up wagner troops and pretend he was on some glorious mission to fight corruption and negligence, then used the potential risk of bloodshed , which no one wanted , to weasel his way out and retire in Belarus getting amnesty. That makes more sense to me than some 19D chess move to draw Ukrops out while making a mockery of your countries stability.
That doesn't answer why Wagner's commanding officers would agree to launch an insurgency against Russia. 19D chess, or the pretense at it that ended up in a failed operation, sounds more likely than that.
And what retirement in Belarus and getting amnesty? What prevents Russia from reneging on whatever agreement they made with him and skinning him alive? Absolutely nothing whatsoever and Lukashenko would not raise an objection. It's not realistic that this is what he was either angling for, or in all seriousness agreed to.
Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Jun 25, 2023 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Arkanghelsk wrote:...I am sad for the pilots who died stopping these psychos, but they will be honored eternally, their sacrifices and those who came before them, and those who will come after them...
They should have been honored by torture and execution of those who killed them
Instead they were allowed to escape
I'm sure pilots' families are super stoked about Russian concept of statehood
Once again, only way this can work is if not only Prigozhin himself was bought by NATO, but a whole bunch of very decorated and dedicated people besides in Wagner, who call the shots and organize the troops. It would be such an enormous betrayal that you could only really equate it to something out of fiction like the Horus Heresy, not anything in Russian history itself. I smell BS, that's not what's going on.
Ritter I should say is not an insider so this amounts to nothing more than his personal theory.
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Stay away from all News media, including Russian media (RT included, I guess); they're run by stupid people, literal whores, and sellouts.
