Prigozhin mutiny thread

JohninMK wrote:Am I correct in assuming that Wagner paid better than the Army? If so there is a definite money issue not just with Wagner losing funding from May but directly if on signing on to the 'contract' involves a pay cut. Plus will all Wagner operatives be accepted in the Army?

Any thoughts?

Army pay is quite good now days, plus soldiers gain pension and compensation for injuries.

While Wagnerians paid more, they will not get veteran status, they will not be looked at if they are left disabled… I guess signing a contract would have solved this.


If wagnerians would be cut from money, they would go after prigozhin first. 

Regards contracts if all Wagnerians would get them… I guess so, Russia needs people, only recidivists would be unfit for service. 

I personally don’t see reason why Wagner soldiers wouldn’t be able to be integrated with their leadership change

mnztr wrote:So far I am unimpressed with the reaction of Russian security forces. They are sending cops to defend against Wagner?  May as well send old ladies. They are not reacting with speed Wagner is now 250 miles from Moscow and has not met any significant opposition.

I don't get this as well, why are they not reacting to this faster?

What are the chances that Prigozhin is set up by Russian intelligence in an attempt to get rid of him?

Scott Ritter thinks Wagner is conducting a coup orchestrated by the British.

Welp... This rebellion comes at worst time tbh. But kinda reminds me of my country's history. Back in 1948, after signing Treaty of Renville, and just 3 years after we declared independence. Indonesian Communist Party rebelled, same reason namely power struggle, and then Dutch launched their offensive 3 months later. Capturing our President and exiled them. However the Nation stands with a counter-offensive in March 1 1949. Proving that Indonesia still exist.

This Rebellion by Prighozin is a test of resolve to the Russian armed forces. The Ukrainian forces will certainly make use of this moment to launch attack hope that Russian morale has collapsed. But then our Nation showed that despite we got ravaged by rebellion. We could still stand.

I think these events , whatever their true nature , will have a substantial impact on the course of the war . Either Ukrs will have to now launch their counter - offensives , seeing a potential " weakness , " or failing that Russia will have to launch a new offensive to reach fully the goals of the SMO . No side can ignore these events and retain their political/ military positions . The Ukrs side will loose total confidence , not having taken advantage of an opportunity , and Russia will loose confidence , not responding . So we are seeing the near end of the war , the bloody conclusion . IMHO.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:That could be rationale behind "Wagner's coup" as long  as no people died... there can be pokazukha to identify internal traitors waiting for this kind of situation.  I still hope it is...
Otherwise there would be massive bloodshed already.

I hope this "mole hunt " will work

There are reports that the 'opposition' Belarussian forces/rebels are being activated by NATO

So yeah it's beginning to look like NATO's gambit to mobilize all the useful idiots it has remaining in Russia and Belarus and go for a last-ditch 'regime overthrow' now that the Ukrainian offensive has petered out into catastrophe.
No doubt they would have agreed something with Prigozhin as well, or rather thought that they did. Because I can't see that Prigozhin and Russian intelligence would be doing anything other than playing along with this whole thing, so that the real traitors can show their hand.

Podlodka77 wrote:ALAMO, greetings to you mate and glad you are not participating in this shitshow..
This time it is not worth it and this section is completely destroyed.
Now the whole fucking forum looks like a ZOO..

GENTLEMEN, I don't think the Russians took Ukroshitstan out of focus.

Oh I'm sure Russian grunts are totally focused on the job after hearing about this shitshow back home

Putin has instructed the Russian military to use whatever force is necessary to take down Wagner.

Don't believe the story that "cops have been sent in to stop Wagner"

Most Wagner are loyal Russians, they will lay down their arms once they know what is going on.

PapaDragon wrote:Oh I'm sure Russian grunts are totally focused on the job after hearing about this shitshow back home

I'm totally focused on playing Star Wars: Battlefront II, so I'm quite sure the grunts on the front-line will be focused on their own important work too, they're professionals.

flamming_python wrote:

So yeah it's beginning to look like NATO's gambit to mobilize all the useful idiots it has remaining in Russia and Belarus and go for a last-ditch 'regime overthrow' now that the Ukrainian offensive has petered out into catastrophe.
No doubt they would have agreed something with Prigozhin as well, or rather thought that they did. Because I can't see that Prigozhin and Russian intelligence would be doing anything other than playing along with this whole thing, so that the real traitors can show their hand.

It would be extremely cynical if it turns out Prigo's heart was always in Russia all along, real traitors lured out and shot. Tho those crews of Mi-17,35 and An/Il-18 that got downed tho might not agree.

Stealthflanker wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

So yeah it's beginning to look like NATO's gambit to mobilize all the useful idiots it has remaining in Russia and Belarus and go for a last-ditch 'regime overthrow' now that the Ukrainian offensive has petered out into catastrophe.
No doubt they would have agreed something with Prigozhin as well, or rather thought that they did. Because I can't see that Prigozhin and Russian intelligence would be doing anything other than playing along with this whole thing, so that the real traitors can show their hand.

It would be extremely cynical if it turns out Prigo's heart was always in Russia all along, real traitors lured out and shot.  Tho those crews of Mi-17,35 and An/Il-18 that got downed tho might not agree.

I'm skeptical as to who and what was allegedly shot down. The videos were unclear, and who would pull the trigger?

It's all fog of war for now, a clearer picture will emerge a little later

If heli and plane was shot down, I know for a fact Rybar and the Duran guys would have said something. They didn't. Which leads me to believe false information being spread which is very common.

Prigozhin if he played his cards right and helped win this war for Russia would put him in good stead for being appointed to some figurehead in the newly liberated areas, it would also make Wagner a much sought after service by foreign governments as well as a tool for the Russian government (at a cost of course) it could also make him seem as a hero and could launch a political career for himself. And he would get even more rich from all this.

Instead he's taken a very risky, silly gamble which not only has a very highly impossible win in his favour but he stands to lose everything, money, credibility, his Wagner, his freedom, even his life.

I find this whole situation highly strange, a man who was willing to fight for the Russian government risking his and Wagner's lives in what I would say is the biggest risk and challenge Wagner have ever faced, and he screams of patriotism during this so-called coup. There is nothing patriotic about trying to undermine a government and military of the country you say you hold so dear to your heart and potentially causing issues to troops on the Frontline that's definitely not the best interests of the Russian troops or civilians back home. He's also risking civilian life in the areas he's operating in Russia and putting Wagner lives at risk. Even he cant be that dumb thinking he can challenge Putin,  military leadership, and FSB along with the might of the Russian armed forces.

The Russian population ain't going to rally round a billionaire who owns a mercenary company who was largely unheard of until they got involved in Ukraine, and likes to have an uncontrollable rant on social media. The Russian population don't want civil unrest especially at time when the west are hellbent on destroying Russia.

I personally think Prigozhin should take serious look at himself his actions even before this were highly unpatriotic and unprofessional. And he his behavior is shameful and discredits the lives of Russian forces, Donbass troops, Wagner, and civilians who have lost their lives during this conflict.

Prigozhin will end up dead, or rotting in a jail for the rest of his life with all his fortune seized. He should have did the right thing and spoke behind closed doors with any issues he had and sorted them out. He has to remember he's a boss of a mercenary company not a prime minister, president or general he needs to remember his place. As I said he should have played his cards right and he would have been highly rewarded in many ways.

And as for saying Wagner troops following the money and Prigozhin has plenty of money to offer them. Well you can't spend that money if your dead or locked up rotting in a jail cell for the rest of your life.

This of course could all be a western ploy. Convince Prigozhin he has a chance to overthrow Russian government etc, the west knowing fine well he will fail. But in turn this causes an embarrassment for Putin, causes a distraction for Russia during the war and distracts the western media from the failing Ukrainian counteroffensive while discrediting Wagner and making Russia lose an effective tool in its arsenal (Wagner) the west and Ukraine know exactly how effective Wagner are and certainly don't want them to return to the battlefield and what better way than to hatch this plan it has multiple benefits for the west and Ukraine and zero benefits for Russia. Of course this is just a pie in the sky theory.

I hope this turns out to be a billionaire who just threw his toys out the pram because he didn't get his own way and a small group Wagner decided to go along with him. I doubt the whole of Wagner are involved in this. And Russia won't want to arrest or kill the whole of Wagner they are after all useful tool. We might find only Prigozhin and a few die hards are arrested or killed and the rest will be pardoned if they sign military contracts a d join the fight against Ukraine.

Only 2 options for Wagner's troops:

Option 1. Lay down their arms

Option 2. Die as traitors

Arsenic wrote:Only 2 options for Wagner's troops:

Option 1. Lay down their arms

Option 2. Die as traitors

I agree.

But what about the Kremlin? Should Kremlin continue its course without any chances in personnel (hint: Shoigu, Gerasimov) and policy after this?

How about treating the "SMO" as a war finally?

Erk wrote:Scott Ritter thinks Wagner is conducting a coup orchestrated by the British.

Would they be stupid enough to die or were they lured by Russian intelligence?

No one opens the doors for the putschist to go through...
Nobody joins him...
They all swear allegiance to Russia and Putin...

Think Star Wars... the Emperor and the Test.
Incinate chaos, see who joins the rebels, see if the external enemy can activate...

Close the ranks, purge the internal >enemies, take away the breeding ground for future serious coup danger...

This is not a coup, this is a coup in the sandbox to see who the enemy within is. Look who didn't say anything today... where is the little western straw doll Medvedev?

Why is the Wagner boss still alive? Because he's playing Count Dooku or Darth TyranusCount Dooku or Darth Tyranus and Putin (Imperator) wants to see who the internal enemies are. Think about the time after Putin. He wants to know who he can entrust to Russia. Who the internal enemies really are.

The timing is perfect. The outer enemy too weak and the inner enemy can now be knocked down without much effort when it shows up. By the way, it makes the Russians pull together. See various civilians who showed the flag today!

Let the Western press and enemies cheer... they misjudge the game, they misjudge the benefit to Russia and Putin. In the end, the breeding ground for a real coup is gone. The patriots will win and loud or silent enemies will be removed!

Very clever game.

@Karl Haushofer

For me it's a war, not SMO.

What's happening with Wagner right now is very serious and unforgivable!

Wagner is endangering Russia for bullshit! That's no way to solve problems!



I hope Prigozhin's close guard kills him, because that's what could happen and that would be the best option! Russia first, the rest must be settled around a table!

@Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E

I'd almost sign up for your script, but it's too big...I don't believe it...

Arsenic wrote:@Karl Haushofer

For me it's a war, not SMO.

What's happening with Wagner right now is very serious and unforgivable!

Wagner is endangering Russia for bullshit! That's no way to solve problems!



I hope Prigozhin's close guard kills him, because that's what could happen and that would be the best option! Russia first, the rest must be settled around a table!

I don't agree with what Wagner is doing.

But this would not have happened had the Kremlin and MOD treated this conflict property as a war since the start.

Putin is seen as a weak leader who needs to be replaced with a strongman. This is the root cause for what is happening.

@Karl Haushofer

For me Putin is not weak, but I will come back to the question if things do not return to order quickly...

In my opinion, the Russian government does not harshly suppress the rebellion, because it believes that some of Wagner's men have been tricked. It is not something new in this type of blows. Besides, there is the issue of avoiding major damage to civilian infrastructure and avoiding human casualties.

Russian vulnerabilities are now open to all world to see, there is no chance anymore to be hidden.
And war in Ukraine triggered power shift behind the scenes and everything went over edge. Russia is overstretched and deeply divided. And regime that Putin build last 15 years means security, intelligence, army, all pillars of the state are without head and this Wagner idiot is just walking through Russia with very careful plan for power grab. Putin failed and gambled huge historical chance to stabilize, modernize and integrate Russia on world stage. He concentrated too much power in his hands and now we see result of it. World leaders must now by all means support Putin and do whatever he needs to crush this rebellion and keep peace in Russia. War torn Russia would be nightmare for all world, no one sane wish that.