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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46

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    Post  Pincus Shain Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:46 am

    PhSt wrote:
    Sprut-B wrote:
    Result of Putin's 4D chess move!

    This stupid action by Putin caused needless suffering and humiliation for the Russian military.


    Why don't you get to the bottom line? what is your intention for bringing this back? You want Putin to get overthrown? You want the Russian government disbanded? If so then you have revealed yourself to be just another pawn of NATO masquerading as pro Russian in this forum

    I agree with you really do not understand how some people can criticize Putin or call him weak, cucked etc. He is the only one who is standing up to this Western expansion and imperialism. That is not weak at all and takes guts. Serious guts. Would anyone else have even stood up to these bullies? No. You think his replacement would? No.

    At the end of the day, it's virtually Russia going solo against the entire West who are starting to throw everything they have behind the Ukrainians. And yet Russia is still pushing forward and winning. Yes, there are losses and a cost to winning, but did you really expect them to walk over an army this well-funded and armed by everyone in a few days and with no losses?

    I think he's doing a great job.

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:00 am

    BDK 91 damaged. The Russians do not learn from the mistakes of Sevastopol and did not secure the port in Novorossiysk.

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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:33 am

    Yawn...probably just another fake Neutral

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:35 am

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:10 am

    Regular wrote:

    Both Russian military nor leadership didn’t perform good early on, but pictures of destroy convoy were tactical mistakes rather strategical, by the way.  BTG structure also didn’t survive test of fire. Military goals were questionable.

    Now much have been addressed, less frontline, better structure, clearer operational goals, no civilian involvement. Even if Ukrainians are stronger now too. 

    As if by magic this appeared at MoA talking about the same thing.

    Good points Shadow. It is clear that Russia has avoided attacking civilian infrastructure, often to its own disadvantage. There are a number of sensible reasons for this of which I think the following are clear:

    if you plan to integrate with a territory or even to have good relations, killing civilians is a very bad strategy. Leads to unrest and insurgency and subversion in your own territories. It is known as long term planning. Look at the nations USA has destroyed with shock and awe. The negative legacy is a significant drag on sources.

    If you think there is a very good chance that the war will escalate and you may need to take full control of a territory eg Kiev or Central Ukraine, you will not destroy railways, electricity stations, dams or bridges which you will need for your own logistics in the future. Russia has all along been conducting this SMO as if it expects at any time to be in the middle of a hot war with NATO. If Russia thinks there is a strong possibility that it will need to march on Poland or Germany in repeat of WWII, it is not wise to destroy infrastructure.

    Many Russians have friends and relatives in Ukraine and therefore killing them could incite dissent at home

    Russians are patriotic and they are sentimentally attached to many areas especially Kiev and Odessa, which is part of their heritage.

    Destroying infrastructure with accurate missiles is an expensive exercise and wastes limited resources. I have assumed from day 1 that Russian supply of the really good stuff was limited. They have been very careful to use the kinzhals etc only on super strategic targets or to sent a clear message to NATO. Putin announced all his wonder weapons on 1 March 2018. My guess is he was bluffing a bit. The weapons did exist and were working, but they had not yet gone into full production. In the four years between that speech and the SMO, I would think that stocks had gone up but that mass production was still very much in the teething phase. This is changing I think, which is why they are a little more confident.

    The potential shortage of the really good modern stuff may well explain some of the NATO intelligence fails. If NATO knew that Russian supply of say Kinzhals was limited, then they predicted when the attack came they would rapidly run out. This is what would certainly happen under the NATO shock and awe strategy. However Russia did not waste its good stuff and rather that try to hold difficult territory that would have consumed scarce resources they chose to retreat. NATO is still trying to get its head around this because it does not compute with expectations.

    Hence the trolls on here still trying to encourage Russia to dangerous over exposure and resource wastage by "going all the way to Lvov" etc.

    Posted by: watcher | Aug 3 2023 22:56 utc | 223

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:31 am

    Arthur Morgan
    @ArthurM40330824
    ·
    1h
    The naval base in 🇷🇺Novorossiysk was attacked at night by 2 sea drones
    A ship being towed in the Novorossiysk region, presumably damaged by a drone attack.

    Patrick Lancaster
    @PLnewstoday
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    1h
    ·
    Seems Ukraine has released a Video of a surface drone strike on a Russian Navy ship in the bay of Novorossiysk. The ship is now listing



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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:38 am

    ,,,,,


    Last edited by JohninMK on Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Belisarius Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:41 am



    Didn't realize the Ukraine had BTR-82As in service scratch

    Ukraine had hundreds of BTR-80s before the war, and if one believes their claims they captured and put into their own service more than 80 BTR-82A.
    It's funny how this "Ukraine captured thousands of Russian equipment" story is quickly forgotten when a "Russian" weapon appears destroyed without having a single Z or V painted on the side...

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    Post  Hole Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:43 am

    Was the guy who opposed a whole narrative about Saddam weapon of mass destruction. 
    Just as Piers Morgan and look at him now.

    Seriously, an offensive stalls out and your excuse is shrubbery?
    Only Agent Orange can help here!

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Scree790
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Scree791
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Scree792
    CV-90 inspected by Shoigu.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:53 am

    One of the potential benefits of long term munitions storage. Maybe X-22 as well.

    War Monitor
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    ⚡On September 8, 1999, an intergovernmental agreement was signed between Ukraine and Russia on the exchange of 8 Tu-160s, 3 Tu-95MS, 575 X-55 cruise missiles and airfield equipment in payment of the Ukrainian debt for natural gas supplied in the amount of 285 million dollars.

    24 years later, Russia is firing those same X-55 cruise missiles back into Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1687220489503072258


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    Post  Regular Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:57 am

    Arrow wrote:BDK 91 damaged. The Russians do not learn from the mistakes of Sevastopol and did not secure the port in Novorossiysk.


    Hmm, it doesn’t seem it was detected at all. Usually Ukrainians attack in swarms and this was a lone hit. I wonder what will be solution to counter them. US navy should learn too as cheap suicide boats can make their day pretty misserable, not just ASMs

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:58 am

    Couldn't resist this one Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 F2pIKATXwAE357t?format=jpg&name=medium

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:12 pm

    Hole wrote:
    CV-90 inspected by Shoigu.

    The video Smile

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:15 pm

    Tony
    @Cyberspec1
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    2h
    The drones themselves, apparently, left the mouth of the Danube River in the afternoon of August 3. Then, under the control of the Tekever UAV, the drones moved to the east, where they were waiting for the beginning of the UAV raid on the Crimea, which also took place at night.

    It is noteworthy that at the time of the raid and attempted strike on Novorossiysk, three reconnaissance UAVs of the US Air Force and NATO Air Force (RQ-4D Phoenix, two MQ-9A Reapers) and one R-8A aircraft were in the air in the southwest of the Black Sea.

    Taking into account the recent missile attack on Taganrog in the Rostov region and the general goal of reducing the capabilities of the Russian Armed Forces in the Azov and Black Seas, the attempted attack on Novorossiysk once again confirms plans to strike port infrastructure of the Russian Federation.
    #Novorossiysk

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    8:41 AM · Aug 4, 2023
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:28 pm

    I noticed a report saying that a Reaper exited stage left broadcasting an error code landing in Romania with the Global Hawk hightailing it back home to Sicily. This was why.

    Tony
    @Cyberspec1
    .
    Aug 3rd
    ❗Some more details on the attack with Naval drones in the Black Sea the other day

    As mentioned previously, 3 drones were used in the attack but the targets were Russian cargo ships that were escorted by 2 🇷🇺BSF Patrol Boats.

    The attack was controlled by a US drone

    The Naval drones were destroyed by the Patrol Boats and Russian fighter aircraft were called, after which the US drone flew back to Romania

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 F2kTFy5aAAAI6E2?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:32 pm

    Belisarius wrote:

    Ukraine had hundreds of BTR-80s before the war, and if one believes their claims they captured and put into their own service more than 80 BTR-82A.
    It's funny how this "Ukraine captured thousands of Russian equipment" story is quickly forgotten when a "Russian" weapon appears destroyed without having a single Z or V painted on the side...

    This time, we discuss a well known picture of VDV column destroyed in Bucha on Saturday morning 26Feb22.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:20 pm

    National Guard mmmmmm Wonder which group of evil bastards they were in in 2014?

    Photos at link, they cleaned up well.

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    The Russian military killed the officers of the Ukrainian special forces

    This is the commander of the 1st combat group of the 1st Special Purpose Group of the National Guard of Ukraine, Senior Lieutenant Sergei Zaitsev and his immediate superior, commander of the 1st special purpose group, Major Igor Demchuk.

    Both have been fighting in the Donbass since 2014.

    https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1687421602261016576

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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:47 pm

    Why is it risky to reach a cease-fire now , based on defacto distribution of forces for Russia ? Well the Orcs could rearm and strengthen their political control , while the support for the war in Russia dwindles and there is political opposition to it . Then restarting the operations , becomes politically difficult and militarily more difficult . But is this a realistic scenario ? How about if the opposite were true ? What happened after Russia added Crimea to it's territory ? Was there detrimental situation developing then , afterwards ?

    In 2014-2015 the Crimean people said they were Russian and wanted to join the Russian Federation, which they had done multiple times before in various referendums that Kiev chose to IGNORE. The people in the Donbass and Lugansk and other new Russian regions didn't identify as Russian and didn't want to join the Russian Federation, so essentially what happened... the west broke the Minsk agreements over and over while claiming it was Russia that was the problem.. while they built up Kievs forces so it could overrun the rebelling regions by force.

    If there was a peace treaty right now why do you think they would honour it this time?

    Why should Russia trust Germany and France and the US and UK this time around when they lied last time, and they will just use it as an excuse to build Kievs forces up again and try again in 5 or ten years.

    The Donbass and Lugansk regions decided they have no future with Kiev and so their only choice was independence and neutrality, or joining the RF... they picked the latter... despite Russia not really being a direct help during the better part of the last decade.

    Kiev wants all of its former territory back which is not an option, so Kievs forces need to be destroyed on the battlefield... whether by Russian forces or by being defeated and Zelensky and the nazis being overthrown... they are getting rather desperate now and they have the full support of the west. When the west starts looking to Africa and central and south america and indeed the Pacific with Taiwan, Kiev is going to suddenly realise how much money and weapons and ammo they were getting was not free and they might decide collapse is the best future for them.

    Who knows... who cares.

    Peace now just freezes the conflict, it wont solve it because Kiev are not cornered enough while they have western support.

    Either they get broken... Russia could try decapitation strikes... but they would need to hit a lot of people.... and probably the real government of Kiev... the US Embassy... if they want any chance of a real change.

    by concentrating on reaching political compromise with NATO

    Putin gave HATO and the US separate points of discussion about security for everyone in Europe... the US said no and HATO said HAHAHAHA.

    How can you talk to such people.

    I can see a future where all EU countries embassies in Russia are closed and Russian embassies in EU countries are also closed and Russia just talks to the west via the US... the fat controller.

    I agree with you really do not understand how some people can criticize Putin or call him weak, cucked etc. He is the only one who is standing up to this Western expansion and imperialism. That is not weak at all and takes guts. Serious guts. Would anyone else have even stood up to these bullies? No. You think his replacement would? No.

    He appears weak compared with western leaders who lash out and attack targets before what happened is properly understood... but then they often do that for good reasons.

    Don't wait for a probe into allegations that Syria used chem weapons because you know it was fake so launch an attack before inspectors can get in there are verify anything at all.

    Equally some Saudis and Pakistanis hijack planes and attack targets in the US so obviously immediately invade Afghanistan and Iraq and any other country on your list...

    Western governments love that the western general public don't think and don't care and will cheer these poor countries being bombed and shelled just because it makes them feel better about being attacked.

    We see with western sanctions that the backlash often does more damage to the west than to the target, and when working out a response Putin is always very careful to make sure it hurts the right people and does not effect Russia.

    BDK 91 damaged. The Russians do not learn from the mistakes of Sevastopol and did not secure the port in Novorossiysk.

    The source of that video would be the British who are supporting the nazis. Lets wait and see what actually happened shall we?

    CV-90 inspected by Shoigu.

    That cardboard looks really thick on the turret.... Twisted Evil

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:00 pm

    Actually, it is quite a thick composite armor package I would say.
    You have a similar layout in every modern tank.
    Yet it is designed to deal with 30mm cal at best, and any RPG will pierce it, even the old ones. This CV90 was taken out with RPG7.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:02 pm

    [quote="Hole"]
    [size=12]


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Scree791

    CV-90 inspected by Shoigu.

    Interesting that there is no protective armour layer for the NERA and that it falls apart like ikea furniture.
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:39 pm

    ALAMO wrote:...It was a case when the entire suburban city quarter was leveled with Grad salvo, only to take out a small column of VDV approaching.
    With multiple civilian casualties and gaining no goal.

    The fabled VDV got assraped, neutered and never again dared to approach the entire Kiev region

    Looks like goal was definitely accomplished



    ALAMO wrote:...It is a crime scene, to begin with.

    You don't get to yell 'crime' when your troops get their turds pushed in while in combat

    It's simply called getting your ass kicked



    ALAMO wrote:...So what? In the end, in March a peace plan was partially signed. ...

    How do you partially sign something?

    Do you just use 50% of the letters or you write first name but not last?

    Anyway Russians should have noticed something was off when they saw that half the signature was missing lol1



    ALAMO wrote:...Heading Miami Beach after.
    More and more Ukrainians are starting to realize that.

    Totally

    They are crowding the streets as we speak Razz




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    Post  Kiko Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:51 pm

    How Russia seizes the offensive initiative from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, by Rafael Fakhrutdinov for VZGLYAD. 08.04.2023.

    The Russian Armed Forces switched to attacking enemy positions on a wide front - from the Kupyansky direction to the areas where the Donbass joins the Zaporozhye region. In addition, the Armed Forces of Ukraine fell into a trap near the village of Staromayorskiy. Does this mean that the second stage of the "counter-offensive" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine turned into offensive actions of the Russian Armed Forces?

    On Thursday, it became known that the Southern Group of Russian troops, together with aviation and artillery, successfully repelled eight attacks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donetsk direction - in the areas of Belogorovka, Berestovoye, Kleshcheevka, Krasnogorovka and Maryinka. “After that, Russian troops counterattacked the retreating enemy and improved the position along the front line,” the Russian Defence Ministry said.

    During the day, Ukraine lost about 380 fighters, one tank, five armored cars, four cars, two Polish Krab self-propelled guns and a Rapira anti-tank gun. “In the Kupyansky direction, the assault detachments of the Western Group of Forces were attacking on a wide front and took up more advantageous positions in the areas of Olshana and Pershotravnevo in the Kharkov region and Kuzemovka in the LPR,” the report says.

    In the South-Donetsk direction, air strikes and artillery fire from the Vostok group defeated the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the DPR - in the areas of Vugledar, Prechistovka, Makarovka and Staromayorsky. The Armed Forces of Ukraine lost here 175 soldiers, a tank, two American M777 artillery systems and other equipment. In the Zaporozhye direction, the RF Armed Forces hit the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the areas of Orekhov, Malaya Tokmachka, Novodanilovka and Pyatikhatka.

    In parallel with this, the Russian Armed Forces managed to lure the enemy into a trap. “The Armed Forces of Ukraine have concentrated serious forces near Staromayorsky and are constantly trying to recapture this settlement, falling either on our mines or under artillery. The settlement has become a kind of trap for them, with the help of which we reduce their numbers, ”  TASS quotes  the words of Yan Gagin, adviser to the acting head of the DPR Denis Pushilin.

    Moreover, in the areas of Malaya Tokmachka and Novopokrovka, Russian forces destroyed three brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine,   Acting Governor of the Zaporozhye Region Yevhen Balitsky said on his Telegram channel . “Until four in the morning, the enemy was accumulating forces as part of three assault brigades to conduct offensive operations. Artillery fire was inflicted on the groups, the enemy practically lost the entire composition of the brigades, the survivors dispersed along the forest belt,” he wrote.

    “In principle, the Ukrainian counter-offensive ceased to be an offensive already in the first half of June. However, our offensive north of Kupyansk, Novoselovka, in the Svatovsky direction and the liberation of a dozen villages cannot yet be considered a full-fledged interception of the initiative. These are tactical successes, but not a strategic offensive. But we are creating conditions for this,” says military expert Mikhail Onufrienko.

    “Now the Russian forces are on a flexible defense and are preparing for the second phase of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, which, in my opinion, has not yet begun. The last attempt at a major offensive near Rabotino took place at the end of July, where the Armed Forces of Ukraine lost many armored vehicles and a lot of manpower. Therefore, in the last week, the enemy does not dare to make any serious attacks, but throws 10-20 fighters into battle, sometimes without armored vehicles at all,” the analyst noted.

    “In general, the “heroes” are scared - after two months of failures, they do not dare to do something big.

    They are trying to "maintain the degree" at the front, realizing that if they do not advance, then Russian forces will advance. Obviously, in the camp of the enemy there are serious disputes between the Ukrainian, American and British commands. Everyone understands that something needs to be done, but everyone has different proposals. And most importantly, no one is going to listen to each other,” the source said.

    “As for the situation with Staromayorsky, we control the settlement from three sides, so the enemy cannot develop his offensive. The Russian forces shot well there and are no longer hitting squares, but points,” the speaker detailed.

    “At the same time, every time the Armed Forces of Ukraine go into a breakthrough, they are surrounded by our troops from three sides. And if the breakthrough fails to break through and expand, then it turns into a trap. It was the same in the Pyatikhatki area, which turned into a “gray zone” for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, well shot by the Russian military. The same thing happened in Kleshcheevka, the capture of which was solemnly announced by the Armed Forces of Ukraine and from where they were forced to leave,” he recalled.

    “The first phase of the Ukrainian offensive began on June 4 and bogged down in the twentieth of the same month. In July, the second phase began, which is still ongoing. But during this time, the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not achieve any significant operational results. All that they can bring to their asset is the capture of several villages on the Vremevsky ledge. This is disproportionate to the efforts and losses expended,” said military expert Boris Rozhin.

    “At the same time, the enemy still has reserves that he can throw into battle.

    In particular, brigades equipped with British Challenger tanks and American Stryker armored personnel carriers were not marked at the front. In my estimation, the overall offensive potential of the Ukrainian forces will be enough for a maximum of three to four weeks. During this time, they will try to achieve at least some tactical success in the regions of the Zaporozhye region and near Artemivsk,” the interlocutor predicted.

    “I think now we can already talk about the interception of the initiative by Russian forces, which went on the offensive in the Svatovsky and Kupyansky directions. They gave us not only the liberated territories, but also forced the enemy to transfer reserves there, which they wanted to hold back for the Zaporozhye and Artemovsky directions. The plans of the Russian forces for August, it seems to me, are to go to the Oskol River, liberate a dozen and a half settlements there and create additional pressure on Krasny Liman, focusing actions on the threat of taking Kupyansk, ”the analyst said.

    “As for the trap for the Ukrainian forces in Staromayorsky, then, in fact, it turned out the same as it happened earlier in Pyatikhatki.

    Russian troops retreated from there - and enemy assault groups entered. But they cannot go further, because the area around is mined, and the heights are controlled by our military. A situation is being created in which holding Staromayorskoye becomes very expensive for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, since ours are shelling them from three sides. In an attempt to hold the settlement, the enemy spends those forces that, according to their plans, were supposed to break through further - to Staromlinovka, ”the speaker noted.

    “The Armed Forces of Ukraine will be able to correct the situation if they are able to take Urozhayne within the next couple of weeks. This will help the enemy straighten the front a little. Also, probably, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will try to achieve some positive results for themselves in the area of ​​Priyutnoye and Novodonetsk, in order to alleviate the situation for themselves in Staromayorsky by straining the flanks, ”the interlocutor detailed.

    “Why did the enemy fall into a trap in Staromayorsky? To break through the front line, the Armed Forces of Ukraine need to overcome a complex of minefields. But they are not removed across the entire width of the front. In one place, they pushed through the front line, removed the minefields there and go through the formed neck along the hulls of the columns previously broken here. By controlling Staromayorskoye and the heights surrounding it, the enemy could accumulate strength and strike in the direction of Staromlinovka. But so far, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have not been able to use Staromayorskoe as a springboard for a future offensive,” Rozhin stressed.

    https://vz.ru/society/2023/8/4/1224211.html

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    The fabled VDV got assraped, neutered and never again dared to approach the entire Kiev region

    Looks like goal was definitely accomplished
    And what an own goal that was. In just one incident the hohols ripped their familial masks off and for what - a minor tactical success. Now the VDV and the vast majority of the Russian Armed Forces have zero compunctions whatsoever about killing hohols in industrial quantities. 10:1 is passe, we might even reach African colonial wars level of murder here...

    PapaDragon wrote:
    You don't get to yell 'crime' when your troops get their turds pushed in while in combat

    It's simply called getting your ass kicked
    Irrelevant. Winners get to determine what's a war crime and what's not.  

    PapaDragon wrote:
    How do you partially sign something?

    Do you just use 50% of the letters or you write first name but not last?

    Anyway Russians should have noticed something was off when they saw that half the signature was missing  lol1
    Oh the instrument of surrender is still in effect. But since they signed partially only parts of their body can get to surrender as well.  Razz

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Totally

    They are crowding the streets as we speak  Razz
    They would be deported as well. More meat for the meatgrinder. Even the bitches too, its just a matter of time.

    The-thing-next-door wrote:

    Interesting that there is no protective armour layer for the NERA and that it falls apart like ikea furniture.
    Its of modular armor construction. Allows for a higher fraction of composite armor compared to steel and easier to maintain and replace. Its less sturdy against repeated hits but you're not supposed to be hit a second time without popping smoke and breaking LOS.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46

    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:42 pm

    What are the chances that the Zelensky peace deal is accepted by nations who were neutral or at least non vocal about the SMO?

    The US will try to tell these states the war will end if Russia leaves Ukraine and returns land to Kiev

    The response of China and India will be the most interesting part, how do you argue against peace? And especially when Russia is in fact in Ukraine, and is on paper against grain deals, and resolution of the conflict?

    Lavrov says to take into account the plight of the Russian minorities

    But then why is Russia fighting attrition war? Why didn't they wrap this up quickly and give the war legitimacy by ending it decisively and killing the regime which is so called "genociding" Russian "minorities"?

    As of now the ball is in the air, Russias own actions leave its allies, or at least neutral cooperating states in a bind where they cannot outright deny US backing of the zelensky peace deal

    China and India would look like overt supporters of aggressive war, and annexation if they reject the peace deal

    I mean what if Pakistan invaded India and demanded protection of Muslim minorities, or if Japan or the US keep Taiwan to protect those minorities?

    So they cannot reject this without losing face

    This is the result of inadequate approach to the SMO - it must be ended quickly on Russias terms to put the stick in this whole thing about who will determine the fate of Ukraine

    Otherwise the terms and conditions of any peace will be determined by outside actors
    franco
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46 - Page 34 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #46

    Post  franco Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:54 pm

    Since the beginning of the so–called "offensive" by the Kiev regime during June - July, the losses of the armed forces of Ukraine in the course of hostilities have already amounted to more than 43 thousand servicemen.

    This indicator does not include wounded and foreign mercenaries evacuated to hospitals in Ukraine and abroad, as well as military personnel eliminated as a result of strikes with high-precision long-range weapons in the rear areas.

    More than 4,9 thousand units of various weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed on the line of contact, including 26 aircraft, nine helicopters, 1,831 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, including 25 German Leopard tanks, seven French AMX wheeled tanks and 21 American Bradley infantry fighting vehicles.

    In addition, the enemy lost 747 field artillery and mortars, including 76 American M777 artillery systems, as well as 84 self-propelled artillery units from Poland, the USA, France and Germany.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12474644@egNews

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