Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

GarryB wrote:
The Bradley would probably stop 14.5mm HMG from the front in its latest models, maybe even 30mm cannon rounds from the front, but not from the side, but most RPGs including old disposable rockets like RPG-18 and RPG-22 will simply penetrate the full length of a Bradley front to back.

This parameter is clearly given in fighting manual of the M2 of the 80s.
The funny part is, that it claims "all around protection", which is obviously false as the armor structure is different.
Frontal angeled aluminum armor can stand 14.5mm for sure, but side no fukin way.
While 14.5mm is weapon systems taken directly from WW2 and used in Soviet light APCs in a waste numbers.
Both 73mm od BMP-1 and 30 mm from BMP-2 can take out M2 head on from all practical distance.
A funny fact is, that to spare on weight, there was quite a serious project of replacing metal of both types with ... glass fiber. GRP to be precise. In testing, it turned out that the hull structure is so weak that it breaks apart while driving and offers perfectly no ballistic protection at all. To make any kind of, titanium alloy panels had to be added, TiB2 to be detailed, making the whole story ridiculous. Not only weight was up again, but the price of the whole layout was insane even for insane Pentagon robbing .. I mean spending
And let us keep in mind, that M2 evolved only TWO DECADES after BMP-1, and was on line with BMP-3 that eats it alive with horns and tail.
The level of Murican delusions never stops shocking me, and the only fact that stands behind is that we deal with undereducated thugs with superiority syndrome for most of the cases.

wilhelm wrote:
Except if you were Herero or Nama.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

True.
Still better than being owned by king Leopold.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:I can just look at the war for te facts, BMPs are getting knocked out in ease left and right and Bradley's are taking more damage and getting away

A BMP easily destroyed and a Bradley that sustained more damage does not prove that the American vehicle has greater protection, unless they were subjected to the same type of attack.
You simply ignore that in war different vehicles are constantly subjected to different types of attacks, with different types of ammunition, with different destructive power.
BMP has thicker armor and better quality materials,
fact.
Any attack that easily destroys a BMP will tear apart a Bradley, period.

Belisarius wrote:
A BMP easily destroyed and a Bradley that sustained more damage does not prove that the American vehicle has greater protection, unless they were subjected to the same type of attack.
You simply ignore that in war different vehicles are constantly subjected to different types of attacks, with different types of ammunition, with different destructive power.
BMP has thicker armor and better quality materials,
fact.
Any attack that easily destroys a BMP will tear apart a Bradley, period.

What makes our Rambo claims even more comedy I have not even considered two other protection tools of BMPs.
Every single one has a wave screen on top of the glacis, that is usually not included in deliberations about armor protection. Yet in every case, we are talking about an additional layer of 8 mm hardened steel that makes additional spacing.
Even for BMP-1, we will end up with the front upper glacis being 8mm thick ribbed steel angeled at 80 deg, assisted by spaced 8 mm steel plate angeled in the opposite direction by some 25 deg. Steel. Not aluminum. It makes roughly 55 mm line of sight of steel spaced armor, which is ... much more than two decades younger and twice the weight M2 made of aluminum.
For BMP-3, the case is even more ridiculous, as the wave shield is spaced from the main armor by more than half a meter.
And surprise surprise! Lower part of the glacis is covered by self digging blade made of what? YES! Hardened steel, usually 6-8 mm thick. Again, spaced

Ukrainian photos with the downed Su-34 allegedly under Krynki turned out to be pictures of 2022

Some sources from the Ukrainian side reported earlier that allegedly yesterday as many as three Russian Su-34 fighter-bombers were shot down in the Kherson direction, or rather in the area of the village of Krynki.In some Russian Telegram channels, this news was dubbed the "Tragedy in Krynki".
It is noted that the incident itself occurred in the sky near the village of Chaplinka, which is located in the Russian rear in the Kherson region.
Krynki is mentioned here in connection with the fact that these fighters allegedly operated against the Ukrainian bridgehead created by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the left bank of the Dnieper River near this settlement.
Official Russian sources do not comment on this incident, and in Telegram channels they began to put forward two versions of what happened. According to one of them, which was followed by the telegram channel "Rybar", the enemy pulled up the Patriot air defense system in the area of Chernobayevka in the Kherson direction. They shot down the planes.

"According to available information, one crew of the plane was saved, the fate of the rest is still unknown." - wrote "Rybar".

According to another version spread by the GREY ZONE telegram channel, Russian Su-34s came under friendly fire from our air defense systems, which allegedly confused them with Ukrainian aircraft.
However, later it became known that this is a Ukrainian fake, which was confirmed by widespread photos of allegedly one of the downed Su-34s. As it turned out, these shots were published online in April 2022.
https://topwar.ru/232957-ukrainskie-istochniki-soobschajut-o-jakoby-sbityh-rossijskih-samoletah-su-34-v-rajone-krynok.html

The spasm about the Bradley in this thread highlights the wonder waffle derangement syndrome in the west. We saw this over the last two years as
one magic NATzO system after another was supposed to change the game. But all of them were nothing burgers. The Bradley is just another
nothing burger and no amount of emotional projection will change this.

But I am sure that it will be the fault of Ukrians that the NATzO garbage they received did not live up to the fanboi fantasy.

So what we learned here today is that for an extra 10 tons the M2A2 Bradley is resilient to 30 mm subcaliber shells from the front and 14.5 mm AP rounds all around.

It still dies to heavy caliber artillery, ATGMs, cargo projectiles, mines, and drones.

Very relevant protection btw, because every Russian BMP comes with an ATGM and hardly any vehicles  use the 14.5 mm caliber.

This is hopefully not true...



https://archive.ph/zrLsq

lyle6 wrote:So what we learned here today is that for an extra 10 tons the M2A2 Bradley is resilient to 30 mm subcaliber shells from the front and 14.5 mm AP rounds all around.

It still dies to heavy caliber artillery, ATGMs, cargo projectiles, mines, and drones.

Very relevant protection btw, because every Russian BMP comes with an ATGM and hardly any vehicles  use the 14.5 mm caliber.

20 mm from the front.
And 7.62 sides and rear. Short ones
Maybe Muricans calculated an average for wanking purposes
This could be the case, if not the fact that most of them are incapable of calculating the average. Maybe MIT graduates

And honestly, as modern 30 mm ammunition can penetrate more than 100 mm, no chance anything lighter than a tank will stand that.

According to one of them, which was followed by the telegram channel "Rybar" T

What do we learn from that, kids?
NEVER trust a Telegram channel.

Rybar are click-bait morons.

the enemy pulled up the Patriot air defense system in the area of Chernobayevka in the Kherson direction.

You can´t "pull up" a Patriot system. It needs days to be deployed into another area and hours to get combat ready.
Even if the Russians would use only one optical satellite they could witness such an operation easily.

@Seig Heil

People can talk all you want, I can just look at the war for te facts, BMPs are getting knocked out in ease left and right

Basic statistics: The Ukies started the war with well over a thousand BMP's (probably a fair number in refurbished from storage as well). The Bradleys were supplied in drips and drabs. The first batch was about 50 and in the end they got about 190 of your wunderwaffe. Logic says that the BMP losses would be significantly more as they started the war with them, whilst the comparatively small number of Bradleys were only delivered fairly recently.

Hole wrote:
Rybar are click-bait morons.

Honestly, this one is one of the most serious clickbait. The number of cases when bullshit and disinformation was spread by that channel rises some real questions.

Mir wrote:
Basic statistics:

Basics statistics is, that the closest range our Rambo managed to M2 was when he downloaded his latest Arma update package. Or was waving stip&stars while some legless vet was presented to his community of 1203 .. 1202 ... oh sorry, one more hanged himself.
And the number of BMPs they had in disposal was about 6000 pcs. SIX. THOUSAND.
They used to refurbished around 300 pcs of hardware every year.
Even if we consider that as numbers given for the sponsors - which can be a case - make it half of that.
By the way, if you want to dig into the matter, there is a "white book of the Ukrainian army" published and dated 2020 if I remember correctly. A great piece to dig out data. No sarcasm.

The Oplot is definitely the best tank of this war by far. Only 5 were lost during the conflict.

Oh wait...they only had 5 in service

M1 is even better.
Zero losses.
Maybe because of never getting closer than 50 km from the contact line.
Probably not enough fuel ...

Mir wrote:@Seig Heil

People can talk all you want, I can just look at the war for te facts, BMPs are getting knocked out in ease left and right

Basic statistics: The Ukies started the war with well over a thousand BMP's (probably a fair number in refurbished from storage as well). The Bradleys were supplied in drips and drabs. The first batch was about 50 and in the end they got about 190 of your wunderwaffe. Logic says that the BMP losses would be significantly more as they started the war with them, whilst the comparatively small number of Bradleys were only delivered fairly recently.

Calling me a nazi Because I said, the Bradley is more survivable than a BMP, you see its that kind of stupid logic that makes people not take you seriously outside of this forum.

Now statistics don't matter here, I am talking about battlefield incidents seen and record, shots BMP's have taken have failed to take out a Bradley. Also the BMP was designed with the roll I stated, that is how it was designed and for the very reasons the soviets designed it.

To be a battlefield taxi to ferry mass amounts of troops quickly, its gun was just meant to engage soft targets while the infantry was getting out.

The BMP wasn't meant to be taking anything other than small arms fire because of its lack of armor protection, the vehicles internal layout

Now tell me, how does pointing this out make me a nazi?.

I don't bootlick, if you cannot tolerate someone saying your precious russian made vehicle is less survivable than an American made one...well go throw your hissy fit in the corner.

I don't have any skin in this game, whoever wins it win its, but I am not going to speak and say bullshit to appease fanboys on this forum either

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

kvs wrote:The spasm about the Bradley in this thread highlights the wonder waffle derangement syndrome in the west.  We saw this over the last two years as
one magic NATzO system after another was supposed to change the game.   But all of them were nothing burgers.    The Bradley is just another
nothing burger and no amount of emotional projection will change this.    

But I am sure that it will be the fault of Ukrians that the NATzO garbage they received did not live up to the fanboi fantasy.

 

I am looking forward to the Ukrainian pilots start flying combat missions on F-16 

It would be even better if a couple of them would be shot down by Mig-35 or Mig29-SMT.... we already know that Su-30 and Su-35 can do it.

It would help mig-35 sales :p

AD will down most of these IF they ever come.

One or two might get taken down by russian birds

thegopnik wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:This is hopefully not true...

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https://archive.ph/zrLsq

even if its a peace agreement they are not elaborating who that peace agreement benefits the most

The problem is the Russians should never be agreeing to any deal.

They have the means to win this, so if they do some kind of deal then Putin sold out is own people or the russians are much weaker then one thought.

Here is the only deal, the russians should be making

"You surrender, anything we say goes and you won't die. That's it, that's the deal"

Anything less then this is only a total blunder.

If Ukraine just has to settle with losing Luna, Donsk and some of Zapo which is regions we knew the Ukie's would loose anyways.

Then honestly, I'd consider it a win for Ukraine as they held the country and only had to give up the bare min.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Calling me a nazi Because I said, the Bradley is more survivable than a BMP, you see its that kind of stupid logic that makes people not take you seriously outside of this forum.

I have been calling you "Seig Heil" from the very beginning of this SMO for obvious reasons. It has NOTHING to do with the Bradley

Mir wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Calling me a nazi Because I said, the Bradley is more survivable than a BMP, you see its that kind of stupid logic that makes people not take you seriously outside of this forum.

I have been calling you "Seig Heil" from the very beginning of this SMO for obvious reasons. It has NOTHING to do with the Bradley

Have you? I haven't seen it. That means you aren't consistent tisk tisk

Someone has lost his window of opportunity to shut the fuk up to hinder the fact of being dumb

Still can't figure id that was dumb or dumber account operator

ALAMO wrote:Someone has lost his window of opportunity to shut the fuk up to hinder the fact of being dumb

Still can't figure id that was dumb or dumber account operator

Videos don't lie, I find the way your reaction hilarious, honestly, it's a riot when a little truth sets you fanboys off so much.

Go respawn or something