Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

I remember there were giant pro-Russian rallies in Kharkov in 2014. Kharkov back then was a pro-Russian city.  It could have been integrated to Russia quite nicely had Putin allowed its capture.

Odessa was a more complicated case, but there was a strong pro-Russian sentiment there as well.

zorobabel wrote:Video of the destruction of the S-400 battery by ATACMS missiles.
https://x.com/clashreport/status/1793893686998180059

The attack occurred within 24s. The first weapon was fired and it took 24 seconds to impact.

When the target was acquired, the target was 24 to 48 km away. The approach angle was directly from above and at a 45 degree angle. See different departure paths.

There must have been several enemy targets. 7 friendly weapons were previously fired. So even if you land 7 hits, the kinetic energy and explosives can continue flying towards you.

But if there were 12 to 16 enemy missiles, there were too few own defense missiles.

But what really pisses me off is the missing TorM2. That's when I get really pissed. There is a SAM system in an open field. Completely without any cover. And there isn't even a gate anywhere.
Such an expensive, high-quality system without TOR coverage? Whoever was responsible for this, go to the gulag.

Why wasn't there a TOR? The drone was not even 2km away. No TorM2, no TorM2 crew would just let them hang around there. How do we know this? From Syria! Every drone, no matter how small, went through TorM2!

Are Russians too stupid to do the simplest things? Two TorM2 systems for such systems as protection and two BukM3.

And this attack and the attacks on Belbeg and now on the early warning radar show one thing very well: NOTHING can be left of Ukraine and this buffer state, which serves as a proxy for NATO as a fig leaf, must be taken away militarily immediately!

No matter what it costs in terms of crew! Get rid of this NATO proxy state. No negotiations, no mercy, no buffer! NATO will deliver more and more, more and more things. Russia cannot afford this.

Putin must not hesitate, he must act now!

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
Putin must not hesitate, he must act now!

Putin had his chance in 2014-2015.

Now Russia cannot completely defeat Ukraine without using tactical nukes.

Here's a strip down of an "antenna" for Arahis radio that was bought through regular military procurement with a price tag of 3000 rubles. Whoever allowed this shouldn't be tried for corruption, but for treason.

https://t.me/dva_majors/43484

They write to us:

I would like to thank Vladimir Verteletsky , Head of the Department for Ensuring the Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation , for the wonderful communication

Two majors

ALAMO wrote:Look at all the worms that crawled out. Some serious resources must have been unleashed to paint the reality pink

says the little fascist disguised as a Russian friend. As always, only manure comes from you.

Karl Haushofer wrote:Russia was also totally unprepared when the 2014 Maidan revolution happened. The West had its agents all over Ukraine while Russia had practically nothing. Whatever you might have think of Victoria Nuland and the State Department, they did their job well.

The one thing Russia did right was to grab Crimea. That's it.

One would think that Russia would have had even some influence in Ukraine if you think that:
- Russia and Ukraine are basically the same people (same ethnic origin, same language, same religion)
- Russia and Ukraine share a common history for more than 300 years.
- Russia had been directly subsidizing Ukrainian economy with hundreds of billions of dollars since 1991.

But when the big test came in 2014 it was proved that Russia had nothing to counter the West in Ukraine. Nothing.

What the hell had Russia been doing in Ukraine since 1991 while the Western NGO's poisoned the Ukrainian youth against Russia? Did Russia do anything (but keep pouring free money to corrupt idiots like Yanukovich)?

Where was Russia's intelligence all these years? Did they have any presence in Ukraine?

The only place where Russia managed to have foothold was the most pro-Russian part of Ukraine which is Donbass. But even there, when the Donbass army had the golden opportunity to defeat Ukraine, Putin stopped them after Merkel fooled him to sign those Minsk documents. Kharkov and probably Odessa could have been gained in 2014 had Putin backed Donbass army instead of signing that worthless piece of paper.

I hear ya, I do

But you kind of answered your own questions inadvertently

How DID the West overcome Russia's influence despite the absolute lack of historical, ethnic, religious, family ties with the Ukraine and the absence of as much fruitful economic co-operation at that point in comparison?

Could it not have more to do with the Ukraine itself, its people and elites, than anything Russia has or hasn't done?

Because really that's the only explanation one can arrive at. The Ukraine's elites were bought by the West according to the same neo-colonial scheme that they offered corrupt elites in Africa, Latin America, etc.. and then those elites did the rest of the work. And the people themselves valued only the US Dollar, not religion or ideology or history or anything of the sort. Well the US Dollar and vapid nationalism devoid of actual content.

And given this - well, why try ultimately?
What's the big prize about worth fighting for?

The Ukraine is a military and political threat to Russia, through its hosting of NATO troops, and its threat against Russian-speakers in the former east of the country that wish to live separately from it. If these threats are countered, then the country can be left alone, as the Ukraine has no value - this has been proven in retrospect.

nomadski wrote:
According to war imperative , populations not living or coexisting , then Russian new regions should include all the dark areas on this map . Ukraine landlocked and Russia not having access to upper reaches of Deniper . If Ukraine stops water flow , Russia stops water access . Problematic , but may work . It is better to leave no Ukraine than little  Ukraine , if that was a choice . Little unviable proxy NATO entity , a thorn in the side !

I think Russia is rather intent on rendering 404 fully true to its name

If something remains outside of the RF, it should be just Galicia, and only as part of Poland (they can enjoy re-educating the bandera nazis for as long as they want), or Transcarpathia, as part of Hungary. Probably no remaining territory will be heir to the ukrainian state, just the individual oblasts will be considered, as it was the case until now. Doing otherwise is just sparing the enemy for another occasion. And of course there needs to be secure land access to reasonable countries in Europe (means Hungary and Slovakia only by now) that does not depend on appeasing limitrophe chimps.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:All of Ukraine needs to be taken and then de banderized throughly.

Agreed. But in practical terms it is much easier to clean the house if you compel all those nazis now spread all over the country to gather in Galicia and then convince Poland to take them. It is safe to assume that Poles, even knowing it is a poisoned gift, will not be able to disdain such a spoil and political victory and will swallow the bait whole.

ALAMO wrote:I guess that are the rumors assisting Yanuk/Batka/Vova "summit" that is going on right now.
Some political solutions might be riping up.
Those does not involve Cocainsky, clearly

If they bring up the card of the "legitimate government in exile" with Yanukovich, it would a delicious response to the West and their Tikhanovskayas. Even if it is pure BS to recreate a "loyal" ukie government (even less based on that PoS Yanukovich), I would had to applaud it for the good fun

LMFS wrote:I think Russia is rather intent on rendering 404 fully true to its name

If something remains outside of the RF, it should be just Galicia, and only as part of Poland (they can enjoy re-educating the bandera nazis for as long as they want), or Transcarpathia, as part of Hungary.

Having a giant, demilitarized, Gaza-like concentration camp for the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in Galicia would be a great way to filter out Bandera ideology from the rest of the Ukraine, essentially decontaminating the place for Russia to reintegrate into the RF. The 2nd map also provides a land corridor to Hungary and Serbia, as well as access to the Danube.

Probably no remaining territory will be heir to the ukrainian state, just the individual oblasts will be considered, as it was the case until now. Doing otherwise is just sparing the enemy for another occasion. And of course there needs to be secure land access to reasonable countries in Europe (means Hungary and Slovakia only by now) that does not depend on appeasing limitrophe chimps.

I'm not so sure that works in Russia's favor. Small, weak statelets are very easy for the West to infiltrate and subvert, literally the whole Eastern Europe is a testament to that. Relying on these newly formed countries to remain neutral and serve their own best interests is a lesson in folly. The Ukraine, no matter which version of it exists after this war, will always be Russia's bastard child.

The entire Russian elite including the intelligentsia were bought and sold by the West. Last time I checked Gorbachev and Yeltsin were Russians, not Ukrainians. They gave away 300 years of conquest bought with the sweat and blood of millions for a pat on the head, some offshore accounts, and a chance to be considered "normal". A pure reflection of their deep-seated sense of inferiority which ironically finds it most ardent demonstration in Ukranian nationalism - a literal identity by negation - "Ukraine is Not Russia" - the title of a book purportedly written by the first Ukrainian president Kravchuk by the way.

Also, all ongoing purges in the ministry's civilian and military ranks show that Shoigu left a lot of problems and considering how long he was in charge, there was no way he wasn't aware of situation and that it was of his own doing (unless he is a complete idiot and a tool).
Obviously, considering his closeness with Putin, there was no way that he would suffer any repercussions for his (in)action as that would implicate that Putin is, at least, partially responsible.

Investigations into corruption cases are not initiated, conducted and completed in just a few days, these things take at least months. Therefore, the recent arrests are a consequence of investigations that were necessarily initiated when Shoigu was still in office, which makes me conclude that all the accusations you made against Shoigu or Putin are nothing more than nonsense.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Look at all the worms that crawled out. Some serious resources must have been unleashed to paint the reality pink

says the little fascist disguised as a Russian friend. As always, only manure comes from you.

As opposed to nafo troon?

Broski wrote:

LMFS wrote:I think Russia is rather intent on rendering 404 fully true to its name

If something remains outside of the RF, it should be just Galicia, and only as part of Poland (they can enjoy re-educating the bandera nazis for as long as they want), or Transcarpathia, as part of Hungary.

Having a giant, demilitarized, Gaza-like concentration camp for the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in Galicia would be a great way to filter out Bandera ideology from the rest of the Ukraine, essentially decontaminating the place for Russia to reintegrate into the RF. The 2nd map also provides a land corridor to Hungary and Serbia, as well as access to the Danube.

Probably no remaining territory will be heir to the ukrainian state, just the individual oblasts will be considered, as it was the case until now. Doing otherwise is just sparing the enemy for another occasion. And of course there needs to be secure land access to reasonable countries in Europe (means Hungary and Slovakia only by now) that does not depend on appeasing limitrophe chimps.

I'm not so sure that works in Russia's favor. Small, weak statelets are very easy for the West to infiltrate and subvert, literally the whole Eastern Europe is a testament to that. Relying on these newly formed countries to remain neutral and serve their own best interests is a lesson in folly. The Ukraine, no matter which version of it exists after this war, will always be Russia's bastard child.

I hope so. I am all for restoring Ukraine to the bounds of the Curzon Line. A Russia, Belorussia, Malorussia Union and good cooperation with Central Asia to keep the NATOzis out would ensure a lasting peace.

Belisarius wrote:

Investigations into corruption cases are not initiated, conducted and completed in just a few days, these things take at least months. Therefore, the recent arrests are a consequence of investigations that were necessarily initiated when Shoigu was still in office, which makes me conclude that all the accusations you made against Shoigu or Putin are nothing more than nonsense.

The investigation was initiated about five years ago (RIA) , and since this was done under Putin and Shoigu, it means to me that they approved the initiation and wanted proof of their suspicions. How about that?

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
Putin must not hesitate, he must act now!

Putin had his chance in 2014-2015.

Now Russia cannot completely defeat Ukraine without using tactical nukes.

I disagree, but they seem to not want to close the border to the west. As long as they don't there will be some kinda weapons flowing across.

But what really pisses me off is the missing TorM2. That's when I get really pissed. There is a SAM system in an open field. Completely without any cover. And there isn't even a gate anywhere.
Such an expensive, high-quality system without TOR coverage? Whoever was responsible for this, go to the gulag.

You speak as if Russia has an unlimited supply of Tor doing nothing or as if they don't have the largest square area of land to defend in the world.
Every Tor is busy defending something, get him out of there and you will create a new opening for Ukraine to exploit.

Production for ATACMs doesn't stop and will only increase.

I remember when the west said the same thing about artillery ammunition production, not only did they fail miserably in achieving their own goals, they ended up with dumb 155mm shells costing more than a guided Krasnopol.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:The attack occurred within 24s. The first weapon was fired and it took 24 seconds to impact.

When the target was acquired, the target was 24 to 48 km away. The approach angle was directly from above and at a 45 degree angle. See different departure paths.

There must have been several enemy targets. 7 friendly weapons were previously fired. So even if you land 7 hits, the kinetic energy and explosives can continue flying towards you.

But if there were 12 to 16 enemy missiles, there were too few own defense missiles.

But what really pisses me off is the missing TorM2. That's when I get really pissed. There is a SAM system in an open field. Completely without any cover. And there isn't even a gate anywhere.
Such an expensive, high-quality system without TOR coverage? Whoever was responsible for this, go to the gulag.

Why wasn't there a TOR? The drone was not even 2km away. No TorM2, no TorM2 crew would just let them hang around there. How do we know this? From Syria! Every drone, no matter how small, went through TorM2!

Are Russians too stupid to do the simplest things? Two TorM2 systems for such systems as protection and two BukM3.

And this attack and the attacks on Belbeg and now on the early warning radar show one thing very well: NOTHING can be left of Ukraine and this buffer state, which serves as a proxy for NATO as a fig leaf, must be taken away militarily immediately!

No matter what it costs in terms of crew! Get rid of this NATO proxy state. No negotiations, no mercy, no buffer! NATO will deliver more and more, more and more things. Russia cannot afford this.

Putin must not hesitate, he must act now!

And how do you know there was no Tor M2, or anything else that there was or wasn't?

Were you there?

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
Putin must not hesitate, he must act now!

Putin had his chance in 2014-2015.

Now Russia cannot completely defeat Ukraine without using tactical nukes.

No I think Russia is doing just fine with that as is.
So much so that the West is panicking and attempting to throw the board

mnztr wrote:I disagree, but they seem to not want to close the border to the west. As long as they don't there will be some kinda weapons flowing across.

Are you dense, or just dooming for the enemy?

Russia can't close the border with the West, without occupying the entirety of Western Ukraine and Southern Ukraine, something that will prompt NATO intervention before Russia is ready for it in those regions; i.e. prior to having taken control of the whole of the Ukraine up to the Dnepr, and then central Ukraine too, and secured supply lines and cemented its authority across all these areas.

flamming_python wrote:
And how do you know there was no Tor M2, or anything else that there was or wasn't?

Were you there?

That's easy to answer... the enemy drone that took the video would no longer be there.

We're not in kindergarten here. There is no TOR firing, there is no TORthere. If there was one, the drone wouldn't be there.

See Syria and the Russian airbase. No matter how small, slow or whatever, TORM2 will take down any drone.

There was no TorM2. And no, you don't leave an S-400 standing in an open field without a gate. Simply ridiculous how things were done here.

Like at the beginning of the war. It's frustrating. After 2 years of war they still haven't learned it.