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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

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    mnztr


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  mnztr Sat May 25, 2024 4:04 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Are you dense, or just dooming for the enemy?

    Russia can't close the border with the West, without occupying the entirety of Western Ukraine and Southern Ukraine, something that will prompt NATO intervention before Russia is ready for it in those regions; i.e. prior to having taken control of the whole of the Ukraine up to the Dnepr, and then central Ukraine too, and secured supply lines and cemented its authority across all these areas.


    NATO is in no position to intervene. THey can start by attacking all rail lines and bridges and highways that lead to the west. Once they bleed them down they can move south from Belarus.

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    Lapain


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    Post  Lapain Sat May 25, 2024 7:02 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Russia has friends, and it will get help, but in a war against NATO it will be fighting with its own troops and just its own troops. It will be Russians fighting against the entire NATO alliance, sans Hungary and maybe a couple of other countries that will forgo NATO in that eventuality. With the saving grace being that we will just have to defeat their standing armies - I can't imagine the hedonistic, post-religion, post-gender, post-everything populations of Europe and North America will be ready to go to war and fight for the sake of moral outrage alone, nor even just have their societies economically mobilize for war.

    So I hope our leadership has made all the preparations necessary.

    It's mainly the Polish army that needs to be defeated. Plus a 300K NATO contigent that the United States would prefer it to be deployed in the Pacific rather than against a "minor" power like Russia.

    Only the Poles will truly fight for NATO, therefore the Ukronazi army needs to be reduced to a minor player as much as possible till this eventuality comes. Defeat Poland and the NATO project in Europe crashes head down.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  GarryB Sat May 25, 2024 7:08 am

    So for me, it wasn't so much coping but being suspicious of western "journalism" and anything that sounded like it

    I am not going to apologise... kiev has their agenda and reason for lies but so does PD... he thinks Putin should act like the Americans and going in hard and kill everyone and is looking for all sorts of excuses to fire everyone and get some good hard arsed nazis in to office in Russia to glass their enemies.

    That sort of shit is idiotic, so if the alternatives are being a drug addict taking copium and being a nazi... **** you... in the real world there are plenty of options and I am not playing your stupid game of you are either with us or you are with the nazis...

    Putin wanting peace is true, the current situation? Well that would be most stupid. Ukraine has to be out out of range of the weapons NATO has given it

    Of course Putin wants peace, he is a human being... he did everything he could to avoid war but the west and Kiev left him no alternative.

    Well now there is war and Russia has lost men and women and children so he is not looking for an easy out... he is going to make those lives mean something.

    Exclusive: Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to halt the war in Ukraine with a negotiated ceasefire that recognizes the current battlefield lines, Russian sources told @Reuters
    , saying he is prepared to fight on if Kyiv and the West do not respond

    It is a Reuters exclusive because they made it up themselves.

    Zelensky doesn't know what day it is let alone the reality on the ground.

    Its half true. Putin has wanted peace since the war began. That has been a problem. He keeps trusting thr west's word. He needs to be firm and finish this job

    He is over trusting the west and has said so on several occasions, but is open to genuine attempts at peace talks.

    Pretty sure he is not interested in the west dropping their sanctions either...

    If he did that, then it would be irrefutable evidence he is a Western plant.

    Nothing irrefutable about any of this.

    To basically give up after all the sacrifices of Russian troops would be way beyond nonsense.
    Putin needs to finish the job, or be removed.

    He just got elected with 80% of the vote and you consider removing him... **** off...

    The 6th column works its magic yet again... loser.

    He fucked up by waiting 8 yrs. And now the job has been substantially harder.

    Bullshit, you don't know that... and more importantly invading 8 years ago... for what... what would be the justification?

    They hadn't done anything against Russia yet... that was all to come.

    Next you will be saying Stalin should have been removed from office for not invading Germany in 1933 when Adolph came to power... I mean his plans for living space was all there in his book... why didn't he attack then?


    Common sense says Russia is beginning to crush the Banderites.

    No thanks to fucking idiots demanding Putin be replaced... Shocked

    I think Reuters are basically saying the usual pack of lies "keep struggling to pay for food proles, that nasty Putin is on the verge of defeat".

    Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct answer.

    Also apparently Ukies attacking Russian BMD radar site at Armavir..

    I wonder how Putin would response..

    Most likely start attacking somewhere else along the line and advancing in different places to increase their manpower problems.

    What a clown show, which is why I just check this war weekly than everyday now.

    Yes, by next week they will be advancing into Moscow...

    Funny you evaluate the situation by minor unimportant factors and ignore the really important facts like running out of Ukrainian men... that were supposed to fight for 50 years... in fact weren't we told with such a huge population base they would never run out...

    As I said before, the creeping escalation will continue. This is NATO probing and a direct strike on a Russian strategic nuclear asset hundreds of kilometers within Russia.

    Nah... the Ukraine is still a country with 20 million people... they can start destroying bridges and rail lines and roads and destroying trucks and trains and ships and make the Ukrainian people suffer more and get tired of Zelensky...

    And the escalation will only continue as others have said. I think Russia has no choice, it should start counter-attacking against NATO bases on the border with the Ukraine as well. I don't think it will cool any heads but again the red line has been crossed and things will only get worse.

    I suspect there are known HATO targets inside the Ukraine they have not hit yet that they could engage.

    Now Zelenskys term has expired is he protected as head of state any more or is he just a criminal dictator leading his country to destruction?

    I still think the US embassy should be destroyed too.

    That's why I'm skeptical about this report. Could well just be Western psyops timed with the strike on Armavir. It would take whatever advantages Russia currently enjoys and convert them into a losing play.

    They are a compromised news agency that is about as impartial as Bellingcat. It is intended to influence the stupid western audience they farm...

    By saying... if that is true then... you are entertaining stupidity... have fun... wont lead anywhere useful.

    And If Trump really is Putins puppet and he wins the next US election and the US quits HATO and starts the process of joining BRICS... and he chooses Hillary Clinton as his Vice President... there is no vice Hillary is not an expert on, so she is obviously the man for the job.

    She even looks like Palpatine...

    For months officials in Russia are stating over and over again that there will be no ceasefire and no freezing
    of the conflict.

    Putin literally said there wont be a ceasefire just because the enemy has run out of ammo.

    Yeah that goes without saying but we all know what the historical record has been with Russia being too eager to rush to all sorts of treaties and ceasefires and paper agreements.

    Before 16,000 sanctions were imposed on Russia and 300 billion plus dollars in weapons and ammo and support was given to nazis right next door to Russia.

    So this report touches a nerve even if it's highly likely to be BS.

    They will be analysing all of Russias insecurities and trying to exploit them because they don't have anything else.

    As for a solution, it's fairly obvious the only way to bring it to an end would be to push Ukraine to the western shores of the Dnipro. Not sure anyone in the Russian state is committed to that, since it would require more than a million soldiers based on the current rate of progress.

    It wouldn't surprise me if HATO wanted to goad Russia into doing something stupid and if someone else was in charge they might get their wish, but the idea that Russia needs to commit millions of soldiers to take Ukraine assumes Ukraine has a functioning military in 6 months time.... and I am not so sure it will.

    And NATO trying to provoke Russia into going for something like that is something that should be countered by giving NATO the same medicine that it's dishing out. Right now NATO is targeting Russian early warning radars. Analogous NATO radars in the Czech Republic or Poland would have to be the response. This could well mean direct war but then so be it, there's no appeasing NATO and they have their mind to provoking war regardless, which they will achieve.

    What would be really funny would be a false flag attack where they get a tactical nuke and make it look like Kiev launched it into HATO territory.

    It is stupid and pointless to deny losses, especially when the enemy publishes drone footage and merged photos.

    It is not pointless, they have been using DCS footage to prove shootdowns of helicopters and Russian aircraft for years, and plenty of other footage has turned out to be fake or distorted. They released footage of their own troops landing in helicopters and getting slaughtered on that island and pretended it was Russian troops getting killed.

    They have the entire western propaganda machine working 24/7 making shit up for them.

    I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue.

    I have said it time and time again. And for year after a year.

    This is all Putin's fault.

    Yes, and 80% of Russian voters disagree with you.

    Yes, such as the "Minsk agreements" Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 8 1f606

    Oh boy did Putin get fooled there.

    He was lied to. Hardly his fault. Now he knows he was lied to I doubt he will trust anyone in the west ever again... and no Russian leader will be allowed to trust them either.

    This is a good thing.

    Without all this deception Russia would still be importing food from the EU and all of their trade would be going to western markets and Russian energy would be going to Europe super cheap and coming back as finished goods at an enormous markup so Europe makes a comfortable living on the deal.

    Russian oil travelling on European ships with insurance via companies in London all pumping money into the western economies.

    More importantly now Russia is looking to the rest of the world for trade and cooperation... if it didn't cost them thousands of lives it would be the best thing that happened to Russia in the last 200 plus years.

    For them Russia is already a pariah state. Russia has been completely shut out from Western trade and institutions.

    And that has not hurt Russia even slightly... infact it has meant a lot of money that bled off to the western economies has stayed in Russia and improved things.

    There are HATO countries that would like to openly trade with Russia who recognised there was profit to be made and benefits to be gained but the bitchy HATO countries on their period wont let them.

    Russia doesn't suffer from this... the rest of the world will happily buy their oil and gas... even when they don't even need it because they know the west does and so they can always sell it to the west... with a nice profit of course.

    If Russia conducted a tactical nuclear strike on Ukraine nothing in that department would really change.

    They can already destroy anything they want in the Ukraine, there is no need and no advantage to using nukes there... it would just complicate the clean up.

    The west wants nukes to be used so they can point to Russia and claim they are the bad guys... knowing they are never going to clean up the Ukraine no matter how it ends.

    There is another option as well. Russia starts targeting strategic assets on Western territory.

    So you think a nuclear war in Europe is a solution to anything at all?

    Might make a lot of western idiots stop talking about global warming...

    As for Yanukovich, apart for the fact that he was a legitimate president at the time of his removal and familiar face in the West, his value is very limited.

    Everyone in the west paints him as being pro Russian but he is nothing of the kind. He is just not an idiot and recognised the EU and HATO economic package was basically loans, while the Russian offer was substantially more money and in terms of investments and support that did not have to be paid back... he picked the obvious and got overthrown by the west whom he supported anyway.

    I do not see why there is surprise and concern about the increased attacks on Russian territory.

    Nazis being nazis, and the west being the west...

    Or, active jamming it, like a constant barrage of jamming.

    They wont want to give away all their secrets... set up a Ukrainian opposition and arm them and they can attack things Russia can't.

    That is the sort of thing the west does all the time.

    After 8 years of Minsk, he again wanted to sign in Istanbul papers on the neutrality of Ukraine, which were worth nothing to the West, and also stated how beneficial it would be for Russia.

    "Vladimir Putin: the Istanbul agreements in 2022 suited both the Ukrainian and Russian sides."

    Pretty sure he would have made sure there was no wiggle room.

    Which is why Kiev didn't go for it.

    To be taken seriously, Russia just needs to arm and assist the Houthis on GAYTO ships.

    They are doing better than that... Putin has recognised the Palestinian states right to exist... and the Israelis and Americans are pissed.

    But Russia is asleep at the wheel in terms of "the Great Game". It's military prowess is admirable. It's geopolitical action is moderate. And it's willpower to protect the FSU and nearby from American puppet coups is poor. Likewise, it's willpower to exact retribution on America and it's chuhuahuas is pisspoor.

    I would say the west is in real trouble for the first time in centuries and most of it is their own doing. BRICS and even international courts ignoring US threats of sanctions to start criminal cases against Israeli leaders.... it will be US senators and congressmen and presidents next...

    I do feel a bit sorry for the frontline Russian soldiers reading the dribble from some of you guys whining and bitching...

    Ohh no.. an S-400 battery was hit... a building with a radar in it was hit... and all that while Russian troops are advancing and pushing Nazi forces back further from Russian territory and making Russian territory safer.

    Every terrorist attack further justifies the extermination of the nazis and their enablers... which is what is happening every day.

    With the saving grace being that we will just have to defeat their standing armies - I can't imagine the hedonistic, post-religion, post-gender, post-everything populations of Europe and North America will be ready to go to war and fight for the sake of moral outrage alone, nor even just have their societies economically mobilize for war.

    Using nukes against Kievs forces makes no sense... they are almost gone now anyway.

    Using nukes against HATO is what they are for... the slow escalation does not make sense when using nukes... you hit and you hit hard and you threaten if there is any response you are going full retard and population centres in Europe will be glassed... that alone should set panic in Europe with an exodus of people from large cities.... without a single missile launch that would cause catastrophy... still want to fight Russia?

    NATO's response to Putin's peace proposal...I hope Putin stops with thinking that this will end at the negotiating table...They want to defeat Russia, not gift them land...

    HATO countries sending troops to Ukraine for any purpose is a gift... if you send soldiers to a war zone you can't complain if they get killed...

    Russia has plenty of long range missiles with very large non nuclear warheads that could deal with large numbers of HATO troops on Ukrainian soil very effectively.

    HATO training does nothing to stop artillery and cruise missiles...

    Russia could have divided Ukraine in 2014 with popular support in Eastern Ukraine and with a legitimate legal/moral case. It would have been a military cakewalk and would have saved thousands of Russian lives.

    And instead they waited for the inmates to take over the asylum and now they can grind up most of the population with a clear conscience that they are killing nazis and anti Russian idiots.

    This excuse that Russia wasn't ready in 2014 just speaks to the utter lack of strategic thought and frankly incompetence of the Russian government and intelligence agencies.

    In 2014 Minsk 1 and 2 had not failed yet, it was essentially a Ukrainian civil war that the west was stoking but the Ukrainian people didn't much care about because they were going to join the EU and HATO and everything will be fine for them.... living the American dream...

    The Orange Revolution was in 2004. Russia had 10 years to prepare for what anyone with a brain in their head could see coming.

    Again, it is not Russias place to tell Ukraine what to do and what not to do... Ukraine made it Russias business with their behaviour after 2014 and Russia still did everything they could to avoid conflict while the west and Kiev did everything to ensure a conflict happened.

    The west and Kiev got their wish and still they are not happy.

    Russia was also totally unprepared when the 2014 Maidan revolution happened. The West had its agents all over Ukraine while Russia had practically nothing. Whatever you might have think of Victoria Nuland and the State Department, they did their job well.

    The government of Yanukovich was openly hostile to Russia and only took the Russian economic package because the western package was shit.

    Russia likely warned him about the coup and he probably didn't believe them or didn't care because he was pro west anyway.

    He thinks the west is good and Russia is evil and the last thing he thought was going to happen was that the Americans you pour so much praise on hired Georgian snipers to murder hundreds of people... civilians and police to start a coup... who knew Ukrainians were that stupid or the US was that evil.

    Well both are obvious now to everyone, so any Russians killed destroying the Kiev regime is protecting the interests of Russia... that is what their military is for.

    I understand westerners don't understand that because normally western soldiers fight to keep the price of oil low, or to ensure the pro western cocaine cartel remains in control of this or that route, but if Russia was ever to use its military then this is a good case for doing so... which is why Putin gets such approval ratings... Russia really is fighting evil.


    The one thing Russia did right was to grab Crimea. That's it.

    Russia didn't grab anything... the people of Crimea rescued themselves and invited Russian forces in to keep the peace while they had a referendum and made it legal and official.

    But what really pisses me off is the missing TorM2. That's when I get really pissed. There is a SAM system in an open field. Completely without any cover. And there isn't even a gate anywhere.
    Such an expensive, high-quality system without TOR coverage? Whoever was responsible for this, go to the gulag.

    Funny guy... if it isn't in view of the picture or the video then it isn't there?

    What exactly can a TOR system do against a clusterbomb warhead?

    Putin had his chance in 2014-2015.

    Putin has 6 years and most likely another 6 years after that... then Medvedev can have a go and then another two terms for Putin...

    Agreed. But in practical terms it is much easier to clean the house if you compel all those nazis now spread all over the country to gather in Galicia and then convince Poland to take them. It is safe to assume that Poles, even knowing it is a poisoned gift, will not be able to disdain such a spoil and political victory and will swallow the bait whole.

    When the Orc military collapses all the nazis are going to scamper to the west... probably Canada and Europe...

    There is enough hate and resentment in Ukraine that they would likely prefer to remain independent and limited than become a tiny part of Poland or any EU country.


    On the upside they all seem to be guilty of money related crimes (minus dipshit from Vuhledar) instead of treason

    20 years ago they would have been working for Ukrs and would have all gotten away with it

    So a progress overall

    The west and 10 years of open and encouraged hate towards Russia has been a good purge of sensible people to separate the wheat from the chaff.


    I'm not so sure that works in Russia's favor. Small, weak statelets are very easy for the West to infiltrate and subvert, literally the whole Eastern Europe is a testament to that. Relying on these newly formed countries to remain neutral and serve their own best interests is a lesson in folly. The Ukraine, no matter which version of it exists after this war, will always be Russia's bastard child.

    Look at the baltic states... big mouths and talking tough, but not relevant in any really important sense...

    I remember when the west said the same thing about artillery ammunition production, not only did they fail miserably in achieving their own goals, they ended up with dumb 155mm shells costing more than a guided Krasnopol.

    And their use of cluster munition armed rounds freed Russias hand in terms of their use too.

    Here's a strip down of an "antenna" for Arahis radio that was bought through regular military procurement with a price tag of 3000 rubles. Whoever allowed this shouldn't be tried for corruption, but for treason.

    3,000 rubles is about 30 US dollars... they are hardly robbing the Russian taxpayer... that is peanuts... in the US the lawyers bill would be $30,000 US dollars just to do the paper work for this thing... and you call it corruption?

    When did you flip from being a worthwhile poster into a 14 year old girl? FFS grow a pair. Its WAR. Shit happens. Endless navel-gazing and self-recriminations won't make the enemy lie down and give up.

    But you don't understand Big Gazza... in war when you put on a bullet proof vest that means no enemy rifle or machine gun or even sniper rifle can harm you... so a SAM system should be able to shoot down absolutely everything and anything and never get hit.

    That's easy to answer... the enemy drone that took the video would no longer be there.

    We're not in kindergarten here. There is no TOR firing, there is no TORthere. If there was one, the drone wouldn't be there.

    What type of drone was it... how powerful was the optics magnification level... how far away was it flying?

    Cluster munitions are not laser guided, and ATACMS using inertial guidance is not that accurate but with a cluster warhead it does not need to be super accurate.

    Once they bleed them down they can move south from Belarus.

    I rather suspect they would prefer to attack in multiple locations along the current line of conflict and mop up Orc forces running from fire to fire trying to hose water everywhere.

    Moving forces can be taken out on the move or when they form up to attack when they arrive...

    Expect the body count to increase over the next few weeks.

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    higurashihougi
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  higurashihougi Sat May 25, 2024 7:19 am

    https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid02HbPnBfaw9CQNegncuD9gXhcbYDrYrdFczR9oBBoKS9iWKDcNfbyXygTQrvbmjcFkl

    It is imperative to not misunderstand that S-400 can intercept ATACMS. No, S-400 are not designed to do so.

    The ATACMS flying trajectory is beyond the intercepting range of S-400. For example, ATACMS can reach max height of 60km while S-400 AA missile max height is 30km. In this context, ATACMS attempts to attack the blind spot of S-400 radars or the area that the S-400 missiles cannot reach.

    Moreover, in the specific sector of Donetsk, the frontline is very long. It is very challenging to delpoy a high density of S-400 to cover each others, as the majority of S-400 are deployed at vital sectors such as Krym, Rostov, gathering area of troops, headquarters, where multiple layers off AA systems are located.

    Lastly, Ukrainian tactics is using, at the same time, many missiles including ballistic missile, anti Radar missiles, and baiting missiles, together with electronics warfare, to overwhelm S-400. When S-400 opens fire AA missile, that is meant to intercept the anti-radar and baiting missiles, not ATACMS.

    At the moment, only S-300V used by Russia and Patriot used by Ukraine can effectively intercept ballistic missiles.

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Sat May 25, 2024 7:47 am

    mnztr wrote:I think its legit to say the R-37M is one of the stars of the SMO, and has transformed thinking about AAMs. I expect ranges will get much longer and likely someone will release a 2 stage missile at some point which can launch either full missile or just the first stage if the target is close.

    BALDERDASH!

    The issue is reliable targeting for them. Very few Russian radars can see past 200 km and you expect its range to double.
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 25, 2024 7:49 am

    higurashihougi wrote:https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid02HbPnBfaw9CQNegncuD9gXhcbYDrYrdFczR9oBBoKS9iWKDcNfbyXygTQrvbmjcFkl

    It is imperative to not misunderstand that S-400 can intercept ATACMS. No, S-400 are not designed to do so.

    The ATACMS flying trajectory is beyond the intercepting range of S-400. For example, ATACMS can reach max height of 60km while S-400 AA missile max height is 30km. In this context, ATACMS attempts to attack the blind spot of S-400 radars or the area that the S-400 missiles cannot reach.

    Moreover, in the specific sector of Donetsk, the frontline is very long. It is very challenging to delpoy a high density of S-400 to cover each others, as the majority of S-400 are deployed at vital sectors such as Krym, Rostov, gathering area of troops, headquarters, where multiple layers off AA systems are located.

    Lastly, Ukrainian tactics is using, at the same time, many missiles including ballistic missile, anti Radar missiles, and baiting missiles, together with electronics warfare, to overwhelm S-400. When S-400 opens fire AA missile, that is meant to intercept the anti-radar and baiting missiles, not ATACMS.

    At the moment, only S-300V used by Russia and Patriot used by Ukraine can effectively intercept ballistic missiles.

    That post shows lack of understanding and general history of S-300P system tho. In 91 Gulf War, Russians saw Patriot performance there and concluded that it's nowhere near what's needed to protect populated area, it has to destroy the warhead. Thus 48N6D was born with the directed fragmentation warhead, then they further optimize the S-300P for that target resulting as S-300PMU-2 Favorit for export and PM-2 for internal use.

    Also they dont intercept in apogee of the missile tho, the S-300, Patriot and Aster do something called Terminal phase intercept, where they intercept the hostile missile when they already back in atmosphere. Thus why you see in any S-300 brochure it intercept Ballistic target at 25 km altitude even for S-300V. I wonder where do these people got idea on it.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat May 25, 2024 8:53 am

    Any truth to this?
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 25, 2024 9:09 am

    Unlikely. It's a speculation, rumor mills.
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 25, 2024 9:32 am

    It is imperative to not misunderstand that S-400 can intercept ATACMS. No, S-400 are not designed to do so.

    It has already intercepted several ATACMS, and is perfectly capable of doing the job but its main job is looking for other threats including drones and aircraft flying at much lower altitudes.

    The radar for the S-400 can scan for ballistic targets but when doing so it looks up making it vulnerable to drones and cruise missile attacks.

    The best systems for engaging ATACMS are likely BUK and S-350.

    ATACMS are not easy targets, but equally they are not impossible targets like Iskander and Zircon and Kinzhal and Kh-32 and Kh-101 and even Kh-22M missiles seem to be for Kievs air defences.

    The issue is reliable targeting for them. Very few Russian radars can see past 200 km and you expect its range to double.

    You seem to be under the impression that R-37 missiles are lock on before launch weapons.

    The first test launch of the R-37 was from a MiG-31 at a target well beyond the radar range of the aircraft at the time, but target information was supplied by an Su-30 flying closer to the target. The distance covered by the missile for the intercept was 300km.

    That post shows lack of understanding and general history of S-300P system tho.

    S-300 can only intercept apartment buildings you silly.... Embarassed

    S-400 is designed to intercept targets moving at up to 4.8km/s which essentially means only ballistic targets can fly at that speed at the moment and for quite some time for the west.

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 25, 2024 9:36 am

    Any truth to this?

    Unlikely... unless Kiev attacks them it makes more sense for them to remain relatively neutral... just like China...

    Belarus does not benefit much from joining the conflict directly and now they have nukes on their territory, it would make it a bit dodgy too.

    Joining the conflict would allow HATO to attack Belarus the way they are attacking Russia (and pretending it is Kiev that is doing it).
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    Post  TMA1 Sat May 25, 2024 10:00 am

    You will note that the ATACMs which dispense submunitions are the ones getting past the air defense systems. Those missiles dispense the submunitions quite a distance away. I think this is one of the major hurdles and I wonder if software could fix this or if a new missile would need designing.

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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 25, 2024 10:04 am

    On recent video of apparent defeat of S-300/400 system tho one thing i speculate is possible use of older 48N6P missile. This missile does not have the directed blast fragmentation of the newer 48N6D or DM. As a result the missile can still intercept the target but cant kill the entire warhead, thus submunitions remains and still rain down on site.

    On subject of Survivability of submunitions warhead, US Testing seems to confirm this. Thus why the latest ERINT and THAAD are all Hit to Kill.

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    Post  Mir Sat May 25, 2024 10:34 am

    I think it was Nomadski that suggested a turtle SAM. Sounds like a good option to me - esp for the more strategic SAMs.  Smile

    The radar would be more problematic to protect, but at least there will be less exploding SAMs.
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    Post  Hole Sat May 25, 2024 11:36 am

    Galicia and then convince Poland to take them. It is safe to assume that Poles, even knowing it is a poisoned gift, will not be able to disdain such a spoil and political victory and will swallow the bait whole.
    Poland won´t be allowed to take it.
    The Americans want to keep Banderaland as proxy, no matter how small.

    something that will prompt NATO intervention 
    No chance.

    and Patriot used by Ukraine can effectively intercept ballistic missiles.
    lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

    ATACMS can reach max height of 60km while S-400 AA missile max height is 30km. I
    What is going up has to come down.
    This only means that the 48N6 missile can hit the Atacms only at a closer range,
    which could lead to debris and sub-munition reaching the target area.

    By the way, the MIM-104 has a max. height of 24km.
    Only the PAC-3 MSE can "hit" ballistic targets at 34km.

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 25, 2024 11:40 am


    On subject of Survivability of submunitions warhead, US Testing seems to confirm this. Thus why the latest ERINT and THAAD are all Hit to Kill.

    Pretty sure a hit to kill warhead would not be effective against the early deployment of munitions.

    Plus as the interceptor approaches a very simple solution to a hit to kill warhead is side mounted rocket thrusters on the cg of the warhead bus to shunt the warhead sideways a few metres in the last few seconds of interception.

    The US can't even intercept Iranian and ancient Soviet ballistic weapons and all of HATOs newest SAMs can't stop Iskander let alone Zircon and Kinzhal and Kh-32... with any type of warhead.

    Only having submunition warheads getting through means any really hardened target is safe from western ballistic missile attack... which is a serious problem for the west because most of the HQs they will want to hit with these weapons will be underground and hardened.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 25, 2024 11:55 am

    Should this SAM discussion be in a more appropriate thread? Where it won't be lost over time as it will be here.


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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 25, 2024 11:56 am

    Could it be possible that the Russians would not be averse to NATO countries sending 'trainer' troops.

    Political and military victory over Ukraine is not enough to rock NATO to the core and force them to accept the December 2021 Russian proposals. To achieve that either the population at large or the smaller but still important countries who, much to the probable annoyance of the big 5 could have a significant PR impact, have to react.

    The few body bags returning to the UK, Germany and Paris now can easily be hidden but if that turns into hundreds or maybe just a few tens arriving spread between say Oslo, Copenhagen, Warsaw and Bucharest could do the job.

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    Post  Firebird Sat May 25, 2024 12:23 pm

    @Garry
    The main problem is, while u know about weapons, you know basically nothing about the culture of the Ukraine and the Russian World.
    I remember for 8 years you basically said "Russia doesn;t need the Ukraine, it should let it rot".
    And how do those comments look today? Do u still stand by them?

    You sidestepped the fact it had been Russia for nearly all the last 1100 years (parts subject to Nazi invasion aside, Polish invasion aside etc). You sidestep the fact 50 % of the population basically considers themselves Russian. Most of the other 50 % is certainly a "fraternal people" albeit poisoned by GAYTO and Nazism to some extent or other.

    My point is simple, if Putin capitulates after the price Russia has paid  then it WOULD be clear he is a Washington plant. I do not believe he is. But I can see utter idiocy when I see it, and so can the Russian people. You however, as a New Zealander cannot. I do not believe Putin would thrown in the towel because it makes no sense.
    You call ME an idiot for criticising a complete sellout? Words fail me...! Look at what YOU were saying for 8 yrs! Look in the mirror!

    MOving on, I love Putin as a "father of the Nation"... on the civil side. But he admits himself. He fucked up.
    Read that again. He admits it himself. He admitted he REGRETTED standing aside for 8 yrs.  He HASN'T made the right decisions on the strategic side.

    And he won a landslide victory because the powers that be value unity. There was no real alternative. They do NOT value flim flam ostrich in the sand "lets wait and see" BS re the Ukraine for 8 yrs. If Putin keeps on with the appeasement style BS, make no mistake, the Siloviki will depose him either via the electorate or other means.
    Anyone who can't see THAT is the idiot!

    The Pukraine could have been crushed in a fortnight in 2014... or at any time til around 2021 or so.
    Putin must now try and redeem himself and ensure such fuckups never occur again. Kazakstan, Belarus, the Ukraine, ANYWHERE in the Russian World and near abroad. He also needs to learn the meaning of the word deterrent and set up a proxy tit for tat situation vs GAYTO devils.

    Either Putin is playing some big game of Maskirovka or he has made several big **** ups.
    The drafted Istanbul agreement makes zero sense either. So much so, I struggle to believe he was serious about it.


    PS
    You think Russia gives a shit about Palestine? It's not about Palestine. Russia should be doing proxy wars vs America not piss around on legalistic BS.

    So Putin also talking "bullshit" in your mind because he regrets sitting on his arse for 8 yrs? 🙄
    Even the village mong can work out Russia could have finished the job in a fortnight not 2 yrs if it started years before.

    Your words here on Putin "He was lied to. Hardly his fault".
    So who you gonna blame? The pixies? 🙄
    He's the President of Russia with decades experience. And you say "it wasn't his fault"?
    He should be surprised the Empire of Satan lied to him?
    And you call ME an idiot? 😂

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    Post  Isos Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm

    It's impressive to think there are pro russians thinking it's a good idea to give Poland more territories to increase their size thus giving nato more grounds. Poland is literalery sending weapons to kill as many russians as possible. Why would a normal russian with its full working brain think it's a good idea to give them ukrainian lands.

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    Post  Mir Sat May 25, 2024 1:06 pm

    Isos wrote:It's impressive to think there are pro russians thinking it's a good idea to give Poland more territories to increase their size thus giving nato more grounds. Poland is literalery sending weapons to kill as many russians as possible. Why would a normal russian with its full working brain think it's a good idea to give them ukrainian lands.

    I believe this is ONE part of the current talks between Russia and Belarus. Not to allow Poland any territory in Ukraine.

    As for Belarus getting directly involved in the conflict: The Russians used Belarusian territory as a springboard at the start of the SMO. That "implicates" Belarus as an enabler - meaning that they are already involved. There were even skirmishes between the two countries. However  Ukraine can ill afford a second front and had to concentrate around the Donbass. The Russians had their problems too, but the initiative is currently in favour of the Russians.

    Things might change even more dramatically with the attack on the Russian strategic radar site, but I would not be surprised to see Belarus entering into the conflict.

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    Post  kvs Sat May 25, 2024 1:30 pm



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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 25, 2024 2:27 pm

    Lapain wrote:Only the Poles will truly fight for NATO, therefore the Ukronazi army needs to be reduced to a minor player as much as possible till this eventuality comes. Defeat Poland and the NATO project in Europe crashes head down.

    That's a matter of opinion, not fact

    Isos wrote:It's impressive to think there are pro russians thinking it's a good idea to give Poland more territories to increase their size thus giving nato more grounds. Poland is literalery sending weapons to kill as many russians as possible. Why would a normal russian with its full working brain think it's a good idea to give them ukrainian lands.

    Poland will carry out 'denazification' in Western Ukraine, by which is meant de-banderification - even more effectively than Russia. Much more effectively than Russia in fact, judging by the USSR's piss-poor job

    But mainly, if Poland annexes this territory, then it can't be used as plausible deniability for strikes on Russia or as some future Idlib style terrorist training base and so on.

    This is all theoretical though. Pretty sure that Poland doesn't want to touch any of these lands with a 10-foot pole. They are interested in arming them to the teeth against Russia to the last Banderite, and nothing more.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 25, 2024 2:56 pm

    Rogozin Accuses the U.S. of Striking Russian Early Warning System for Nuclear Attacks

    ▪Senator and former head of "Roscosmos," Dmitry Rogozin, commented on images circulating online after a drone attack on the "Voronezh-DM" radar station. This station can detect ballistic nuclear missile launches up to 6000 km away.

    ▪"Since the USSR acquired nuclear delivery systems, the U.S. has never ceased its attempts to gain military-strategic superiority over us. NEVER... Now, Washington has commissioned a crime, hiring an irresponsible thug to damage an object of our Missile Attack Warning System (MAWS), a key element of the Strategic Nuclear Forces' Combat Control System.

    ▪Of course, it's conceivable that the attack on the MAWS facility in the Krasnodar region, if not a Ukrainian military fake, was initiated by Kiev or by some military maniac within the Ukrainian armed forces seeking to ignite World War III. However, given Washington's deep involvement in this armed conflict and its total control over Kiev's military planning, the notion that the U.S. is unaware of Ukrainian plans to strike Russia's missile defense system can be dismissed. Washington will have to fully answer for the current and future crimes of the reckless Ukrainian leadership.

    ▪Thus, we are not just on the brink but already at the edge, beyond which, if we do not stop the enemy from such actions, an irreversible collapse of the strategic security of nuclear powers will begin."

    Source: RVvoenkor

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    Post  nomadski Sat May 25, 2024 4:00 pm




    The Americans have similar Radar . Houthi can have Russian nuclear powered cruise missile with conventional warhead , to attack from Yemen the North Atlantic region . Don't worry about me , I have three days of food supplies as advised by the British government . I'll be alright !

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    Post  Hole Sat May 25, 2024 4:10 pm

    Thus why the latest ERINT and THAAD are all Hit to Kill.
    Doesn´t matter, part of the bomblets will survice and continue the flight to the vicinity of the target area.

    But mainly, if Poland annexes this territory, then it can't be used as plausible deniability for strikes on Russia 
    That´s why the American regime won´t allow it to happen.
    Sure, Poland could send troops to annex the teritory, but it would
    stay "independent". 

    with the attack on the Russian strategic radar site
    Judging by the pic(s) the building wasn´t hit by a missile, otherwise it would be mostly destroyed.
    But the are doesn´t look as if it was hit by hundreds of bomblets.
    That means most likely some AD missile hit the incoming missile and only debris and parts of the
    warhead hit the area/building.

    Those radars are build from pre-fabricated parts.
    All electronics come inside a container that is put into the supporting structure of the building.
    That means the system can be repaired quite fast.

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