Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

flamming_python wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:state department has said the ukies are free to attack military targets in russia.

Youve got to be next level stupid to think the ukies have no right to bomb their enemies military infrastructure, fuel supplies etc during a war.

If Russia cannot have their stuff bombed then they should not be bombing Ukraine's.

this entire notion that Ukraine has no right to attack the russians inside russia military wise during a dam war is perhaps single handed the biggest braindead thing  have seen on this forum in sometime

It has got nothing to do with the Ukrainians having the right or not, this is a false narrative. Since the very start of the war the Ukrainians were targeting airbases in the Rostov-on-Don and Belgorod regions with Tochka ballistic missiles (a few times successfully). They were conducting helicopter raids in the Belgorod region, and made an attempt to invade it a couple of times. The Ukrainians attacked Moscow, they attacked even a Russian strategic bomber base. With their own weapons. None of this provoked WW3.

The question is not about the right but about the means. The Ukrainians have no means to attack Russian territory anymore. So they ask NATO forces to do that instead for them. And it becomes a question as to whether Russia allows NATO to attack it or whether it retaliates to that.

Again I reiterate these are NATO crews, manning NATO equipment, getting targeting data from NATO recon and intel means, and attacking targets within Russia. And they get their orders from NATO too. The only relation they have to the Ukraine is that they're operating from its territory.

Perhaps Russia's invitation of Yanukovich to Minsk for tea with Putin and Lukashenko is a hint at a Russian response. Namely the setting up of a fake Ukrainian state and fake Ukrainian army that can then hit NATO territory with about the same 'convincing' level of plausible deniability

They can still conduct attacks just not deep inside, thy merely dont have the weapons but you alll are acting like if they are given the weapons they cannot attack in that manner which they totally can and have every single right to

SeigSoloyvov wrote:They can still conduct attacks just not deep inside, thy merely dont have the weapons but you alll are acting like if they are given the weapons they cannot attack in that manner which they totally can and have every single right to

Well Seig, you can permit them whatever you want.

But it is my country and I say that we must be ready for war, and retaliate in kind in case of any NATO strike on Russian territory deep inside or not.

Again, it is not a matter of Ukrainians using weapons provided to them. Ukrainians have used UAVs provided to them to attack Russia as well. Here we're talking about actual NATO combat formations that take orders from NATO. And we certainly have a right to strike back against NATO in this case.

sepheronx wrote:Well, it seems consensus around here is for Russia to go to war with NATO.

OK.

Well, lets see how this pans out.  I don't think Putin will go for it because he isn't one for escalation and he is more level headed.  But if it costs him his life, so be it.  In end, Russian government and MoD has to decide.  They have more in the know than us anyway.

Simplicius the Thinker's view is that this whole scenario is designed just to justify the introduction of NATO forces into the Ukraine anyway, that the issue of NATO strikes on Russia is just being used as an instrument

Ukraine is not keeping up with Russian recruitment whatsoever, as numbers for the new ‘mobilization’ continue to look dire. Even police from cities like Kharkov have reportedly been thinned out and sent to the front:

Not only do the AFU tankmen say the Abrams isn’t properly armored for modern combat, they speak of its various breakdowns and inability to withstand the terrain.

MSM reports that the U.S. stopped even sending the Excalibur guided artillery round because it has performed so dismally, continually jammed by Russian EW

This leaves the Russian Krasnopol as king of the battlefield, which continues not only performing daily, but whose use has vastly increased. Just in the past few days alone we’ve seen footage of Abrams, M109s, and other high profile Western systems all taken out with the Krasnopol.

Now the West is increasingly worried about Russia’s unparalleled industrial achievements.

Zelensky admits they have “no long range 155mm” rounds at all: So much for that NATO artillery superiority.

the actual truth entirely revolves around needing to escalate the conflict to save the AFU, which is collapsing. It has nothing to do with hitting Russian supply lines which are way out of reach anyway, and everything to do with the escalation creep of triggering Russia’s red lines and slowly wedging NATO into the conflict.

In the meantime, the U.S. empire continues to go down in a flaming wreck before our eyes:

The U.S. Empire has never looked so utterly exhausted, defeated, and bereft of any redeeming moral standing or leadership qualities as it does now:

The optics have never been worse—it is truly an Empire in total terminal decline, its entrails strewn across the globe for all to see. - Simplicius

Which could well be the case. And in this case escalation will be unavoidable too. NATO troops in this case will ultimately enter the Ukraine even if Russia does decide against direct retaliation.

Putin at the start of the conflict said that "if you see that a fight is unavoidable, so then strike first". I'm not advocating striking first, but I am advocating hitting back at least. No way around it.

^ Ukraine is run by the US state dept and CIA. They are in complete control. Everything that happens , happens because the US wanted it to. All the terror attacks , all the isis style depravity , all of the attacks on Russia were directives straight from the US. If there was some semblance of Ukranain agency , most of this stuff wouldn't be happening. And don't take that as a compliment to Ukraine. 

They condemned it you say. Thats hilarious. The Ukraine that you seem to think still exists , was gone when Yanukovych fled.

Even the biggest FABs don't look very big in this region when you zoom out. 

If Nato is going to cross the red line and deploy troops to Ukraine , Russia might as well break out the tactical nukes. Tactically nuke assemblies of NATO troops when they come.

I have a simple solution that I have been suggesting since the first year of the SMO. Select one Ukrainian city and turn it into a sea of fire (using conventional/ thermobaric weapons). Let this be a reminder not to cross Russia's red lines. If NATO continues with its behavior, then a second city will be decimated, and then a third, continue the process until everyone is dead in Ukraine. I don't care if civilian casualties are in the millions. This is a message that sooner or later London, Paris, Berlin, Washington DC. will be the next to be decimated (this time, with nukes).

lol the zoo emptied out, the cages are open and there’s a full blown party

Hit NATO? No shit , didn’t know MAD was something we were into here, I don’t want to die yet so how about that

Use a tactical nuke on Ukraine? The ideas get brighter and brighter, who knew you could become even more depraved than Israel

Cmon let’s think real clear about this

Ukraine is on the verge of collapse, they wouldn’t be reacting this way if everything was kosher - Ukraine is on the verge of a collapse, they are sending the last drip of organized armed forces

Everything else they have is just volksturm

So introduce a little prejudice into the equation and prosecute the war with cold and calculating aggression

Putin is a war criminal according to the ICC, South Africa has said they would arrest him and this has been said in other countries

Israel just finished the Gaza debacle and it’s on the same level as Russia

How’s that for irony

Russia should be bombing Ukrainian cities into Mosul style piles of rubble

You want a sanitation zone with minimal casualties? Clear the fucking path

How this escapes the minds of our zoo creatures is beyond me

Somehow we skipped that part and we have brilliant suggestions from hitting NATO to dropping tactical nukes

Have you all lost your mind?

This isn’t about what China or India think anymore, in fact after the Israel debacle has China stopped doing business with Israel? Has India?

No India is fucking supporting Israel

And the Chinese happily work Ashdod port

Newsflash no one gives a **** about Palestinians

And no one will give a **** about dead Ukrainians

If they’re going to mobilize every last man woman and child to come kill you

Then kill them in their fucking sleep and be done with it already

Muh shared 1000 year fraternal history be damned

These people hate Russia and they will hate Russia whether you come to them with flowers or whether you bomb them into submission

That’s the nature of the beast - this is a war and Israel just finished theirs

It’s time for Russia to do the same

Well that's exactly the point

The Ukraine is nearly done.

Only NATO won't let Russia win the war. No sir.

They will escalate. And if you don't want to hit NATO fine. But they will hit you. And they will know you're an empty suit and scared of them.

That's why all these arguments about how 'Russia is winning the war' and just needs to 'stay the course' are doomed. Yes that's exactly right and that's what NATO is attempting to spoil, and simply ignoring their entrance into the war is not going to make them magically go away. You will have to deal with them as the Ukraine itself fades away.

Arkanghelsk wrote:lol the zoo emptied out, the cages are open and there’s a full blown party

Hit NATO? No shit , didn’t know MAD was something we were into here, I don’t want to die yet so how about that

Use a tactical nuke on Ukraine? The ideas get brighter and brighter, who knew you could become even more depraved than Israel

Cmon let’s think real clear about this

Ukraine is on the verge of collapse, they wouldn’t be reacting this way if everything was kosher - Ukraine is on the verge of a collapse, they are sending the last drip of organized armed forces


It’s time for Russia to do the same

You've just bought into the nuclear boogeyman too much. Its all mostly BS. Go to Chernobyl. Nature took over 20 years ago. Or Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Inhabitable for 30 years.. yeah right.

Don't be a pussy. Nukes can be used in Ukraine. What are you worried about ?

You can’t hit NATO without triggering an even greater escalation

Russia needs to have a real justification for that, and it doesn’t

Ukraine is the ultimate proxy because of the proximity, size, and population to be used as fodder

The issue here is that yes strikes are being conducted - you say by NATO but there’s no way to actually corroborate that so your on shaky grounds anyway

Even if it is NATO in Ukrainian uniform it still has the veneer of plausible deniability needed to at least obfuscate NATO involvement - yeah they don’t do a great job of hiding it , but they’re fighting with the conditions imposed on them (no air support, no artillery, exposed to Russian strikes) and that enough means that it is a deniable act that Russia can’t just open up on NATO bases because of a really good hunch

Using a nuke is out of the question , wtf do you accomplish with that that you don’t by using conventional weapons ?

I already explained that Israel basically conducted a genocide, and while there is a symbolic ICC case against Netanyahu - Putin is considered exactly the same for saving children in a war zone

Ergo all the arguments about how Russia needs to manage its image to global south is moot especially if you call for direct NATO strikes or even nuclear use

Russia needs to implement the sanitation zone - with minimal casualties

So you go to Kiev and you start razing the place and you capture it - now you hold the political and administrative capital of the enemy state

You also control the northern Dnieper and can cut off weapons supplies to the east

You do the same thing in Kharkov, you bomb it to rubble and you capture it , repeat in Sumy, Chernigov, Zaporozhye and the rest of the Donbass

The meatgrinder works, but now you just need to grind them where they sleep, eat, and live

That’s war and that’s what they will do to belgorod, Crimea, Donetsk, Lughansk, Kherson etc if you let them

And for now you have to eat whatever strikes get through with ATACMS, HIMARS, Drones etc and you have to accept they will get through

That’s what has been allowed by dragging this thing out and is an inherited political problem that needs to be solved militarily within the parameters that Putin decided to allow the west to play by

The retreats and gestures of goodwill created this, now he needs to own it and do what needs to be done

To think that the west would afford him time to just slow grind this out was another mistake that Putin made on top of getting couped by NATO, 2 broken ceasefires, Istanbul agreements, and the SMO

It’s time to stop being such a smart ass and start fighting the war that he started

If not please someone explain that he should not risk everyone’s life because he is scared to finish what he started

As if the West will let Russia wrap up the war there in this squeeky clean manner with a bowtie on top that you advocate, Arkhangelsk. It doesn't work that way. They won't let you implement the scenario that you hope for. Sanitation zone or whatever.
The only thing you can do is carry on the denazification and demilitarization on your terms, without being provoked into rushing it.

And plausible deniability my butt, we're talking direct attacks here, let them taste the same medicine instead of having just our military infrastructure, industries, people's livelihoods ground down through attrition.
You talk about there being no way to attack NATO - we'll they've certainly found a way to attack us. Why is it that WW3 should result only from attacking them, and not us? Time to put some fear into these exceptionalists, before it gets worse.

Yeah NATO found a way because you guys have us the way.


If you didn't make these silly mistakes we wouldn't have had it.

You can blame us for our share but you knew dam well say one of given the chance we would take it, so you foolishly gave us the chance and shocker we took it.

As the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me anymore then that well we know who the dumb sob is"

And you keep giving us more and more by refusing to end this ASAP.

At this point Russia isn't getting all of Ukraine that ship as sailed, beat you guys can now hope for us getting up to the dneprio and Odessa and it's only a matter of time before those windows close also

Backman wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:state department has said the ukies are free to attack military targets in russia.

Youve got to be next level stupid to think the ukies have no right to bomb their enemies military infrastructure, fuel supplies etc during a war.

If Russia cannot have their stuff bombed then they should not be bombing Ukraine's.

this entire notion that Ukraine has no right to attack the russians inside russia military wise during a dam war is perhaps single handed the biggest braindead thing  have seen on this forum in sometime

Whoosh. You don't seem to know what the developing crisis even is.

Nato is using Ukraine to strike Russia's strategic weapons and defenses. Military infrastructure that has nothing to do with the Ukraine war.

This would be like a civil war breaking out in Cuba with Russia supporting the communists, and then Russia shooting at natl missile defense and radar sites in Florida.

When the US is at war with a country and Russia arms that country, that country is within it's righta to attack us with those weapons.

Doesn't matter if we are ordering the attacks.

Ukraine is at war with Russia, and those are valid military Targets.

You don't get to whine like a lil bitch that Russian military assist are behind attacked, doesn't matter who the orders come from a legitimate target is. A legitimate target.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yeah NATO found a way because you guys have us the way.


If you didn't make these silly mistakes we wouldn't have had it.

You can blame us for our share but you knew dam well say one of given the chance we would take it, so you foolishly gave us the chance and shocker we took it.

As the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me anymore then that well we know who the dumb sob is"

And you keep giving us more and more by refusing to end this ASAP.

At this point Russia isn't getting all of Ukraine that ship as sailed, beat you guys can now hope for us getting up to the dneprio and Odessa and it's only a matter of time before those windows close also

This conflict is going to end with every last inch of the Ukraine under the control of Russia, and any inch that isn't controlled will have to be formally annexed into either Poland or Romania such that it won't remain as some sort of NATO-aligned terrorist entity that can used to attack Russia. But not too much, no-one's going to allow Poland to go past Western Ukraine or for Romania to grab say Odessa.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:When the US is at war with a country and Russia arms that country, that country is within it's righta to attack us with those weapons.

Doesn't matter if we are ordering the attacks.

Ukraine is at war with Russia, and those are valid military Targets.

You don't get to whine like a lil bitch that Russian military assist are behind attacked, doesn't matter who the orders come from a legitimate target is. A legitimate target.

So you're saying NATO has a 'right' to attack Russia but that Russia does not have the 'right' to attack NATO back in response?

Gotchya.
Think you're a little mistaken on that one though bud. And again, rights really don't come into it.

flamming_python wrote:Russia will lose a lot of men by trying to rush things.

Nobody said anything about rushing, Putin's already stated what will happen if NATO approves of strikes on Russia and the Ukraine will lose more territory because of it. That won't require a mad dash to the Dnieper but the same systemic bombing campaign that's currently processing over 1000 Ukroaches per day into mulch and fertilizer.

The NATO missile threat against Russia will only grow in time and missiles with greater ranges will be supplied once Russia fails to give an adequate response to their use. The ATACMS is only the beginning.

The longer the range of missiles NATO supplies, the smaller the Ukraine gets.

They'll give them whatever is necessary to launch them, or analogous missiles, if neccessary modifying them to be launched from a less expensive asset, or they will attempt to extend the range of other missiles such as the same ATACMS.

Do you wonder why NATO keeps having to give longer and longer ranged missiles to the Ukraine in the first place? Is it because the Ukraine is winning?

Israel has a bunch of short range ballistic missile systems, so does South Korea, and those can be given to the Ukraine too and targeted, launched with the help of NATO personnel and NATO intelligence.

You know what else can be given? Iskanders to Iran and North Korea to massively upgrade their ballistic missile arsenal, which would be an absolute nightmare for both Israel and South Korea.

But more dangerous are cruise missiles assuming the launch platforms are provided. F-16s might be able to launch some of them.

F-16's need smooth runways completely cleared of debris to take off from... good luck finding one of those in the Ukraine.

If you allow them to keep launching them at will, they will eventually find weak spots.

Well lucky for NATO, Russia hasn't been shooting down any Ukrainian aircraft or missiles nor upgrading their air defenses as of late. I guess Russia finally ran out of weapons?

By allowing them to strike Russian territory with no direct repurcusions?

Again, by your schedule, yes?

There is as yet nothing to retaliate against, I am opining as to Russia's options for when these attacks come as it appears now that they will and soon

So your latest outburst isn't based on something that's actually happened but something you've imagined in your mind?

You don't live in Russia and are not subject to military mobilization

I didn't know I needed to be Russian to have an opinion on the SMO, thanks for reminding me.

it's not your place to say what my reaction should or shouldn't be.

You're free to react however you want to but don't expect people to not respond to your reaction on a public forum.

Above all I want the situation to de-escalate and for the war to be contained

... and what the hell do you think Russia's been doing this whole time?

That will all be interpreted by the enemy as a sign of supreme weakness.

How has that worked out for NATO so far? Dedollarization, Decolonization in Africa, the EU in recession, Russia's footprint expanding geopolitically as opposed to isolation, 5th column rats demoralized after thinking they had friends in the west, 6th column crybabies mostly silenced (except on russiadefence.net), Russian economy booming after the sanctions from hell, Russia's military potential growing exponentially on a shoestring budget.

And if it proves instead that war is inevitable, then the war was always going to be inevitable,

Is it, though? Most of your whining the last page and a half has been assumptions, conjecture and imagination.

Might as well address a few more comments made since this post.

sepheronx wrote:OK, so you are in charge.

Who would you strike first.  What would be your response exactly?

flamming_python wrote:announce another round of partial mobilization.

600,000+ men are already serving in the SMO, only half of that fighting force is deployed to the front at any one time. All of the freshly mobilized will need at least 6 months of training, and lets not forget about the economic impact this will have on Russia, not that you seem to care at all.

And then have the 'Ukrainian' army carry out some demonstrative strikes on NATO supply bases on Polish or Romanian territory adjacent to that of the Ukraine.

Who's to say the Ukrainians haven't already done that? How many are employed throughout Poland alone? How many of them are Russian informants? How many are willing to "accidentally" set a factory on fire for a few million rubles? How many non-Russians/Ukrainians are willing to commit sabotage acts against NATO with the 10's of millions of illegal immigrants they've imported into their countries?

Well, it seems consensus around here is for Russia to go to war with NATO.

Yes, the "rational" people here who see Russia kicking the Ukraine's ass and neutralizing everything that NATO could muster are worried about new Wunderwaffe being gifted to the Ukraine so they want Russia to kickstart a nuclear war to show them who's boss. LOL!

But it is my country and I say that we must be ready for war

You're panicking over Wunderwaffe Tomahawk missiles that the Ukraine doesn't have and want Putin to preemptively start WW3 against NATO (which NATO literally wants).

Putin at the start of the conflict said that "if you see that a fight is unavoidable, so then strike first". I'm not advocating striking first, but I am advocating hitting back at least. No way around it.

You're advocating striking first, in retaliation for a weapon the Ukraine doesn't have

Even the biggest FABs don't look very big in this region when you zoom out.

Zoom out far enough and Earth looks like a tiny speck, doesn't make the FAB-3000's any less devastating against Ukrainian positions.

If Nato is going to cross the red line and deploy troops to Ukraine , Russia might as well break out the tactical nukes. Tactically nuke assemblies of NATO troops when they come.

Kinzhals will get the job done just as well, while denying a desperate NATO any precedents to follow.

Select one Ukrainian city and turn it into a sea of fire (using conventional/ thermobaric weapons).

Ah yes, Dresden the Ukrainians. That's exactly how the US won the war in Vietnam... right?

That's why all these arguments about how 'Russia is winning the war' and just needs to 'stay the course' are doomed.

Oh God, until today I almost forgot about the Doomers. Thanks for reminding us that Russia is doomed (yet again).

You've just bought into the nuclear boogeyman too much. Its all mostly BS. Go to Chernobyl. Nature took over 20 years ago.

Move in there then get back to us in 5 years, if you last that long.

The only thing you can do is carry on the denazification and demilitarization on your terms, without being provoked into rushing it.

Yes, lets ignore the fact that's Russia is currently doing the very thing you're suggesting them to do and have done so since February 2022.

I don't normally do these Garry-type replies but, tonight clearly warranted it. Chickenshit doomer season is back guys and nothing less than nuclear war will suffice! Also, Putin is f*cking up again and needs to be replaced with a psychopath like this;

I have a simple solution that I have been suggesting since the first year of the SMO. Select one Ukrainian city and turn it into a sea of fire (using conventional/ thermobaric weapons). Let this be a reminder not to cross Russia's red lines. If NATO continues with its behavior, then a second city will be decimated, and then a third, continue the process until everyone is dead in Ukraine. I don't care if civilian casualties are in the millions. This is a message that sooner or later London, Paris, Berlin, Washington DC. will be the next to be decimated (this time, with nukes).

Twitter post by Geroman on Tuesday "Compared to data from two weeks ago
, the enemy continued to transfer significant forces to the northern direction. At the same time, the “hodgepodge” effect has been preserved; they are still represented by 1-2 battalions. Something new that is noteworthy is the transfer of airborne assault units from near Rabotino and marines from near Krynoki. In addition to this, of course, transfers continued from all other directions. In total, 21 brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the “ Advance Guard ” are represented in the Kharkov direction, as well as additional reinforcement by border units and GUR" Z-committee TG

What is the most absurd part of this whole dispute, aside from the fact that it is always being trigger by some dedicated trolling - is how distanced from the reality it is.
Russkie are wining decisive the biggest war in the last 70+ years.
Sure it is localized, but de facto it is a world war.
On a scale of the Korean.
And they are winning it single handed, in a way if they are carrying big and long lasting drills.
They are winning not only in military terms but also in both economy and politics.
Half of Africa is waving three colors.
Seven out of 8 bln humans on the planet, either support Russkie, or give a shit about the whole story at most.
People from the west are leaving their countries and coming to Russia, on a base of traditional and human values.
And give the testimony of their choices, world wide, prompting a rude response from the former compatriots, as the realities can't be denied anymore.
Ukraine is bleed white. It won't recover. That would require generations and hundreds of bln for reconstruction, they both lack.
They won't represent a serious threat to Russia anymore.
BRISC is expanding as we speak.
U$D role in world trade & reserves is decreasing.
The US role is fading away, with clear symptoms that China is stepping in for real.
Europe is being deindustrialized, with a clear shift from the political ideolo to the realities that were formed 30 years ago. Soon, it will be ruled by the people contesting the federalization concepts and getting back to the "Europe of nations" idea.
The world community rejects the woke concepts, leaving that shit to the caste that is clearly mentally ill.

Yes, it is a great moment to nuke some shitty farts in a middle of nowhere indeed.
That would help much!

Broski wrote:Nobody said anything about rushing, Putin's already stated what will happen if NATO approves of strikes on Russia and the Ukraine will lose more territory because of it. That won't require a mad dash to the Dnieper but the same systemic bombing campaign that's currently processing over 1000 Ukroaches per day into mulch and fertilizer.

If NATO approves strikes on Russia the military campaign will immediately become a lot more complicated as there won't be a secure rear, or a secure military-industrial base, or a secure environment for the civilian population.
It must not be allowed to happen and the optimum strategy is deterrence by demonstrating both the capability and the readiness to retaliate in the same manner.

The longer the range of missiles NATO supplies, the smaller the Ukraine gets.

The longer the range of missiles NATO supplies, the smaller NATO gets.

Fixed it for you

Do you wonder why NATO keeps having to give longer and longer ranged missiles to the Ukraine in the first place? Is it because the Ukraine is winning?

No, it's because it's losing.
Now answer why do you think they've thought up of missile strikes on Russia as a means of changing that dynamic?

You know what else can be given? Iskanders to Iran and North Korea to massively upgrade their ballistic missile arsenal, which would be an absolute nightmare for both Israel and South Korea.

Except the Israeli and South Korean missiles will be impacting Russia and killing Russians, while the Iranian and North Korean missiles will be sitting in their launch vehicles safe and harmless.

And everyone will have a good laugh at Russia together.

All this technology, all these military specialists, all these state of the art missile systems, and so many of them - and all counts for nothing if you don't have the balls to use it in your own defense.

F-16's need smooth runways completely cleared of debris to take off from... good luck finding one of those in the Ukraine.

They'll fly them from Polish and Romanian airfields

And you will be on here explaining why Russia can't strike them.

Well lucky for NATO, Russia hasn't been shooting down any Ukrainian aircraft or missiles nor upgrading their air defenses as of late. I guess Russia finally ran out of weapons?

Doesn't matter if you're Mike Tyson, if all you do with your arms is defend and never attack, the opponent will eventually find a way through and do damage to you.

Again, by your schedule, yes?

I'm not specifying a schedule, except that cause and effect have to be obvious here. So it does have to take place after the NATO attack within a reasonable amount of time, and if takes a little longer, then you have to at least keep the tension and whatever mobilization, etc.. building in the interim.

If Russia fails to do this it will be interpreted as Russia punking out. American culture is a very direct one. They have no concept of Eastern cultures' subtlety or delayed revenge or whatever. It's like those Hollywood movies with the high school jock picking on the nerdy Asian kid or whatever. You don't want to be the nerdy Asian kid, even if you do get your revenge 5 years later or whatever. They won't respect that.

So your latest outburst isn't based on something that's actually happened but something you've imagined in your mind?

Based on what they are now quite openly saying that they're preparing to do.

I didn't know I needed to be Russian to have an opinion on the SMO, thanks for reminding me.

You don't, but it might have helped you to understand my reactions, since you seem to be taking such an interest in them.

You're free to react however you want to but don't expect people to not respond to your reaction on a public forum.

Why yes what's under discussion are missile strikes by states we are not presently at war with on my own country, in the event of which I can be mobilized. But I'd much rather be mobilized now yet have a chance of seeing the threat warded off, than be mobilized later when an expansion of this war has become a certainty.

... and what the hell do you think Russia's been doing this whole time?

Giving warnings that are on the cusp of being ignored

How has that worked out for NATO so far? Dedollarization, Decolonization in Africa, the EU in recession, Russia's footprint expanding geopolitically as opposed to isolation, 5th column rats demoralized after thinking they had friends in the west, 6th column crybabies mostly silenced (except on russiadefence.net), Russian economy booming after the sanctions from hell, Russia's military potential growing exponentially on a shoestring budget.

Yes and that's why they're desperate and threatening to enter the war themselves. And you still have to meet their threat and either scare them off or beat them, else even despite all their setbacks - if they're allowed to just pound you while you do nothing, then they can still win.

Is it, though? Most of your whining the last page and a half has been assumptions, conjecture and imagination.

Well it's quite simple. They'll just keep escalating until either you do have to respond, or your own home front will collapse from demoralization because you're not protecting them.

I'm reminded of Churchill's quote
"You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war"

600,000+ men are already serving in the SMO, only half of that fighting force is deployed to the front at any one time. All of the freshly mobilized will need at least 6 months of training, and lets not forget about the economic impact this will have on Russia, not that you seem to care at all.

There are enough troops at the front to hold NATO. NATO has less men in readiness.
But it would be necessary to start preparing the next batch of reserves with no delay, in anticipation of the war expanding.

Who's to say the Ukrainians haven't already done that? How many are employed throughout Poland alone? How many of them are Russian informants? How many are willing to "accidentally" set a factory on fire for a few million rubles? How many non-Russians/Ukrainians are willing to commit sabotage acts against NATO with the 10's of millions of illegal immigrants they've imported into their countries?

You misinterpreted what I said. Go back and read it again

Yes, the "rational" people here who see Russia kicking the Ukraine's ass and neutralizing everything that NATO could muster are worried about new Wunderwaffe being gifted to the Ukraine so they want Russia to kickstart a nuclear war to show them who's boss. LOL!

It's not wunderwaffe it's NATO attacking Russia. And it's just the beginning, if you let it be.

You're panicking over Wunderwaffe Tomahawk missiles that the Ukraine doesn't have and want Putin to preemptively start WW3 against NATO (which NATO literally wants).

Nothing preemptive about responding to an attack

You're advocating striking first, in retaliation for a weapon the Ukraine doesn't have

I feel I'm just repeating myself at this stage

Yes, lets ignore the fact that's Russia is currently doing the very thing you're suggesting them to do and have done so since February 2022.

Yes and so why has NATO thought up of missile strikes on Russia as a way of turning the tables on that, do you imagine?
Was it just a random idea that they have that can't possibly achieve any of their stated objectives and can safely be completely ignored?

I don't normally do these Garry-type replies but, tonight clearly warranted it. Chickenshit doomer season is back guys and nothing less than nuclear war will suffice! Also, Putin is f*cking up again and needs to be replaced with a psychopath like this;

There's no dooming here. Everything is still up for grabs. Although Russia seems to be softening its warnings now and that's not a good sign. If Putin miscalculates here he will run into the same situation again but more extreme, and soon.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:state department has said the ukies are free to attack military targets in russia.

Youve got to be next level stupid to think the ukies have no right to bomb their enemies military infrastructure, fuel supplies etc during a war.

If Russia cannot have their stuff bombed then they should not be bombing Ukraine's.

this entire notion that Ukraine has no right to attack the russians inside russia military wise during a dam war is perhaps single handed the biggest braindead thing  have seen on this forum in sometime

100% correct and I can't even believe we are actually arguing about this

War is war

What Russia can do is go bigger, harder and longer on Ukrs, plain and simple

As for NATO that's for later, finish Ukrs first

Agree with all who say that SMO started too softly on the Orcs . But this was the result of historical experience : For one the victory of Soviets over Nazi Germany allowing the thinking of swift victory by Russia over their junior grandchildren the Orcs . The other the belief of brotherly relations between two Slavic nations , where in reality sufficient differences in religion and language existed that differentiated the populations . Agree that it is not too late to hit transportation and communication hubs . Not likely that Russia will advance fast enough to save as booty the industrial infrastructure . Nor will it be allowed to use Bridges over Deniper to cross and confront the Rat- master NATO . Bridges have been left standing . Disagree about targeting civilians . However civilian infrastructure of civilians providing aid to the Orcs become targets . Especially farmers allowing equipment to be hidden or stored . If nukes are hidden then they will likely be used . And if they are displayed , then they will likely not be used . Brandishing is illegal , but so is everything that is good in life , it is either illegal , immoral or fattening !

Proportional response was not given to NATO ? This started with North stream and is now at the stage of Taurus directly into Russian cities . Not that it will adversely change the course of the war in the short term, quite the reverse , but may still be demoralizing and if allowed to progress will become significant at some stage , needing a response . Was a proportional response given at any stage ? A deterrent ? I remember under- sea power cables cut between mainland U.K. and Scottish Islands ! Also heard about Russian satellite chasing American paparazzi one lately and then there was the fires in factories of western MIC ! So perhaps too harsh to say that red lines allowed to be crossed without any consequence ? And still room to give symbolic or actual proxy response by Houthi or other ! They need the nuclear powered cruise missile to do eternal circumnavigation of the world !