Security services around Europe are on alert to a potential new weapon of Russia’s war – arson and sabotage – after a spate of mystery fires and attacks on infrastructure in the Baltics, Germany and the UK.
lol it’s clear they’re mixing random shit with actual sabotage
Their problem is that they have been blaming Putin for everything, so they sort of have to continue that now...
Except now it could be just normal people sick and tired of how tough things are yet Ukrainians seem to get funding and support and of course all those billions of Euros going to Kiev when locals are hurting too...
Heard analysts mention two things :
I have heard analysts say Putin wont invade the Ukraine... analysts don't know anything... they are merely making assessments and guessing.
and if attacks are not significant , irrespective of range and type and who is actually firing or directing them , then it makes sense not to retaliate against NATO in a major way , but to keep it mostly symbolic .
What Putin defines as significant might not be what anyone else considers significant... that is a dangerous game to play...
If nothing changes , then Russia has no choice but to fight on , the end result of the point where the fighting stops , depending on what gives or breaks first !
Russia can't quit before this is done because in 10 years time they will have to do it all again... Kiev is fast running out of bodies...
What's wrong with that? NATO is just using its once in a lifetime opportunity to destroy Russia, once and for all.
Even if they are that stupid because nothing they could do would destroy Russia short of actual nuclear strike which they wont do anyway, then they are just creating enormous hostility from the largest country on the planet rich in resources at a time when their economic base and identity is about to be destroyed.
They have smashed away the foundations beneath the country they live in and making large powerful countries their enemy... good luck with that.
There is another way for Russia to prevent its mainland from being hit. Hit back and cause serious damage to the ones that hit Russia. In their own territory and in strategic targets. They will back off. After all they have more to lose than Russia as they have bigger populations and are richer than Russia.
Or do they realise they have killed the golden goose and this is their attempt at suicide by trying to get Russia to wipe them off the map?
It is up to Russia to decide whether it wants to die or fight back.
A European expects Russia to save him... that is funny.
Russia should continue grinding up the men and resources of Kiev... the money disappears quickly enough and moving men and resources reveals them to Russia for strikes and their destruction.
The west is trying to goad Russia into doing something stupid, but when this is over Russia is just going to ignore the west and let it fade into insignificance, because it is not important and does not want to be part of the world around it.
The best outcome for the world would be if the sane minds in the West will stop the escalationary process after Russia's retaliation.
Best outcome for the world is that the west continues to destroy itself and its control of international organisations and structures so they can be rebuilt in a more fair and representable way.
The problem with Russia's non-retaliation policy is that it gives more power to war-hawks in the West. They can say: "Look, we can do anything to Russia and they will do nothing to us. Why not hurt Russia even more when they are weak and down?".
Those same warhawks are going to increase military spending for everything, most of which is totally wasted for most western countries. Those western warhawks are so detached from reality that letting them continue is the most destructive thing Russia could do to the west... and it continues to work... 63 billion was going to fix everything and now they need more...
Whoever's paying you to do 'Concern Trolling' here should get a refund.
It is interesting that the advice for Putin is the same as the advice for western leaders... attack back and they will back down.
The west is losing in the Ukraine and in Africa and around the world but Putin is still getting it all wrong.
Of course the failure of the west is not Putins doing, but you can credit Putin for not stopping his enemies when they are making a mistake... which they always seem to be doing.
With these 'strikes against Russian units on the border with Kharkov' they're dipping their toe in the water. But answer this, what happens next after you dip your toe in the water and it turns out warm?
And the smile on your face at the idea of how nice the warm water feels is replaced by a grimace as a crocodile comes out of the water and grabs your foot and drags you down into the water and death rolls you... while that American mate of yours who dared you to dip your toe into the water rapidly leaves the area and starts thinking about alibis for the police and friends and family...
It is funny that everyone claims Putin is weak because of what they say he wont do, because that is all in their heads.
I am sure Western politicians think he wont escalate with the things they are doing too... till he does... of course this escalation bullshit is meaningless when you consider the number of Orc soldiers being diced up on the front line every day...
I have to agree with Karl Haushofer here the only way to stop this cycle of escalation is to hit back and hard. It can put the escalation into overdrive, but even if it does, sane minds will win out after some raging.
What do Christians say about that? Eye for an eye and we all end up blind?
The west is escalating because they know they are losing and have been outplayed... they are trying to get Russia to throw a tantrum and upset them.
Russia has openly attacked the main airbase in the Ukraine where the F-16s were most likely to operate from, which means the introduction of F-16s is either cancelled or they will be forced to operate them from HATO countries and Lavrov has said if they do then they are fair game...
Not sure what else you want from them.
But as to NATO, they'll next be sending Tomahawks with 3000km range to the Ukraine, and claiming that the Ukrainians are the ones launching them.
Greater flight range is no advantage... the longer it spends in the air the more likely it is to be detected and shot down. There is nothing magic about Tomahawks.
Deploying 3,000km range Tomahawks to Europe frees Russias hand to develop new Medium and Intermediate range ballistic and cruise missiles with ground based launchers... so go ahead and do it I say.
OK Flaming, lets assume you are right and that US is just attacking Russia claiming its Ukraine.
Let us also say that Russia retaliates and hits directly at NATO assets in NATO Countries as a form of retaliation.
And that is exactly what the US needs to convince European countries that when Russia defeats Ukraine that they are next so HATO has never been so important for the defence of Europe from big evil Russia.
We have the conundrum that Ukraine will beat Russia and is destroying their military, yet at the same time when Russia has destroyed the Ukraine it will take on HATO next and invade Europe...
The deadly dangerous weak fluffy bunny...
Again, let's say you do nothing. Then Putin dies in a helicopter crash some months later.
You deal with problems as they arise... if you want to make up problems then your responses are not going to match reality.
If Putin dies in a car crash then you get elected president and WWIII starts immediately and everyone dies... congratulations... you got what you wanted... you killed your enemies by killing yourself... perhaps we should call you guys the Skynet crew.... you sound like AI anyway... just because computers run AI programmes it does not make them smart... or right.
What will your options be then? Assassinate the US president? And how much likelier will that be to herald full-scale war as opposed to a symmetric response in the current situation?
I would say assassinating the US president would be something half of Americans will be considering after the next US election anyway... supplying the right tools is all that would be needed I suspect.
Or will you be on here again, saying that alas Putin is already dead, what does it matter, if you retaliate then you'll just risk war?
At what point is it worth retaliating, sepheronx?
So if Putin dies in a helicopter crash then you want to murder the US president. I hope you are assuming Putins death was orchestrated rather than just an accident or do you see Putin as the adult in the room preventing you from behaving like a
?
But moreover you don't get it. This is the chance now to avoid any such scenario like that. The only chance in fact, if I've read the US political and military elite correctly and I believe I have.
US policy has been US domination of the world for the last 100 years plus, their implementation, however, suggests their fourth Reich is not going to be a 1,000 year reich either.
state department has said the ukies are free to attack military targets in russia.
Youve got to be next level stupid to think the ukies have no right to bomb their enemies military infrastructure, fuel supplies etc during a war.
Glad you think that way because the Ukies were not given permission to attack such targets in fear that Russia would respond in kind and attack military infrastructure and fuel supplies and ammo production and recon resources in EUROPE.
I mean you have got to be next level stupid to think the west can prop up the Orcs and not expect to feel some love too.
If Russia cannot have their stuff bombed then they should not be bombing Ukraine's.
If HATO cannot have their stuff bombed then they should not be supporting nazis in the Ukraine attacking Russia and Russians.
this entire notion that Ukraine has no right to attack the russians inside russia military wise during a dam war is perhaps single handed the biggest braindead thing have seen on this forum in sometime
It is cute that you think rights come in to this.
I can't believe I'm saying this but Sieg has a point.
The reason they have not widely attacked targets in Russia with HATO weapons is to avoid Russia attacking HATO in response...
So when the Orcs start attacking Russian targets in Russia... well you can work that one out for yourself I suspect.
US can justify it internationally that Ukraine can strike whomever they like in Russia, the nation they are at war with.
Who gives a **** what the US says... it claims to not be a party to this conflict so their say is meaningless... unless they are a party to this conflict which they clearly are so start by destroying the US embassy in Kiev... ten Kinzhals...
Russia cannot strike at NATO because it isn't at war with them, yet.
HATO is supplying Nazis in Kiev and is a party to the conflict. Russia has not attacked HATO directly because HATO pretends it is telling Kiev not to attack Russia directly... when the gloves come off HATO will realise their mistake but of course that will be too late... the history of Europe for the last few decades really.
Since the very start of the war the Ukrainians were targeting airbases in the Rostov-on-Don and Belgorod regions with Tochka ballistic missiles (a few times successfully).
They have been shelling targets in Russia for a decade now...
They were conducting helicopter raids in the Belgorod region, and made an attempt to invade it a couple of times. The Ukrainians attacked Moscow, they attacked even a Russian strategic bomber base. With their own weapons. None of this provoked WW3.
It doesn't till it does.
So nip in the bud, you don't have a choice.
There is no need for terror groups or car bombs or whatever. Just firm and prompt action.
Funny you make it sound so simple.
Putin is not responding to things that have not properly happened yet so you claim he wont respond at all, but you think one over reaction from Russia and the west will suddenly completely change direction and back down and be sensible.
They are playing chicken, but they are as dumb as chickens looking at their past decisions and ideas have made things much worse for themselves and better for Russia in most areas and now all they have is escalation, so Russia is just waiting... when F-16s start flying what will the west say when they get shot down?
What escalation then?
Rafales?
F-35s?
Tactical nuclear weapons?
Then announce another round of partial mobilization.
So Russian economy with a shortage of workers and you drag more men out of civilian life.
Putin has already stated they don't need another mobilisation... pretty clear he knows what he is doing.
Well, it seems consensus around here is for Russia to go to war with NATO.
Ironically it is what the neocons probably think is their only way out of this too...
Well, lets see how this pans out. I don't think Putin will go for it because he isn't one for escalation and he is more level headed. But if it costs him his life, so be it. In end, Russian government and MoD has to decide. They have more in the know than us anyway.
The west has probably been trying to kill him for the last two decades.... good luck with that...
In which both cases Ukraine is correct. Russia has shit defences as those drones shouldn't have been able to fly that far to hit the target. And they are also right in saying they can strike anywhere in Russia, because they can. This is also a major failure on Russia's side.
Yeah, because western airspace is locked up tight against everything, while anything can walk through Russian air defence when it wants...
Russia will still move its stupid ass very slow, and it will suffer a lot of civilian deaths because of it when Ukraine does these token attacks.
If I had told you 30 years ago that the war of Russia against the west would have this level of casualties you would have laughed in my face.... the civilian losses in this conflict are a fraction of the losses during the conflicts in Chechnya...
I mean, Russia could end this a lot quicker and save a lot of its own people.
You sound like an American saying America could have won in Vietnam if it had just been harder or tougher or used more bombs or this or that...
It will take as long as it takes... you can speed it up by surrendering only and that is not an option.
They can still conduct attacks just not deep inside, thy merely dont have the weapons but you alll are acting like if they are given the weapons they cannot attack in that manner which they totally can and have every single right to
The attacks against military targets tend to fail horribly... they even had their own Bay of Pigs attack that got slaughtered...
Occasionally they hit markets and bakeries and kill some civilians, but they are nazis so that is to be expected... it is why they are killing thousands a day.
the actual truth entirely revolves around needing to escalate the conflict to save the AFU, which is collapsing. It has nothing to do with hitting Russian supply lines which are way out of reach anyway, and everything to do with the escalation creep of triggering Russia’s red lines and slowly wedging NATO into the conflict.
So HATO is losing and in desperation is trying to get Russia to give them an excuse to get directly involved... but if that means sending in HATO troops then great... send them in and Russia will wipe them out... HATO training doesn't stop HE and fragments...
Also when HATO troops start getting ready to go in to the Ukraine their logistics tails will be enormous... tanks burn an enormous amount of fuel... even when they are not moving around a lot... so smashing them would be a real treat...
Putin at the start of the conflict said that "if you see that a fight is unavoidable, so then strike first". I'm not advocating striking first, but I am advocating hitting back at least. No way around it.
Hitting back means hitting second, but you seem to want to hit first.
^ Ukraine is run by the US state dept and CIA. They are in complete control. Everything that happens , happens because the US wanted it to. All the terror attacks , all the isis style depravity , all of the attacks on Russia were directives straight from the US. If there was some semblance of Ukranain agency , most of this stuff wouldn't be happening. And don't take that as a compliment to Ukraine.
I keep saying it... 10 Kinzhals on the US embassy would solve a lot of problems very quickly.
I have a simple solution that I have been suggesting since the first year of the SMO. Select one Ukrainian city and turn it into a sea of fire (using conventional/ thermobaric weapons).
So brutally murder hundreds of thousands of people you claim to be going in to liberate?
Sounds like a solution for a nazi problem... perhaps take over the country and put all the nazis in one place and then do that to the one place.
Can I suggest Brussels?
Only NATO won't let Russia win the war. No sir.
They can send all the money they want... they can end the war quickly by cutting Kiev off from everything, but they can't keep the war going when there are no Ukrainians left to put on the barbe...
That's why all these arguments about how 'Russia is winning the war' and just needs to 'stay the course' are doomed.
Why?
HATO hasn't acted yet, so Putin is free to respond in a way to make HATO not act again... that is how it has worked... Russia has plenty of options including cutting off the logistics to a country of 20 million people... hitting fresh water and power but also rail and road and other means of getting food and material to the civilian population of the country will cause insurrection faster than hitting a base in poland.
Yes that's exactly right and that's what NATO is attempting to spoil, and simply ignoring their entrance into the war is not going to make them magically go away. You will have to deal with them as the Ukraine itself fades away.
Putin and Lavrov have pointed out the obvious... Kiev has no hit Russian targets with western weapons because they don't want to be an active open party to this conflict. The west giving Kiev the green light to do as it pleases makes HATO an open and active party to this conflict and therefore fair game for attacks...
You can’t hit NATO without triggering an even greater escalation
Russia needs to have a real justification for that, and it doesn’t
If HATO green lights hits on Russia then Russia should be allowed to respond in kind... hitting repair bases in Poland, and logistics centres with ATACMS that are delivered to Ukraine for use against Russia.
Ukraine is the ultimate proxy because of the proximity, size, and population to be used as fodder
Except when there is blowback like attempts to assassinate Fico...
I already explained that Israel basically conducted a genocide, and while there is a symbolic ICC case against Netanyahu - Putin is considered exactly the same for saving children in a war zone
We have to leave Israel out of this... this really has nothing to do with them or western double standards regarding Israel or themselves.
Ergo all the arguments about how Russia needs to manage its image to global south is moot especially if you call for direct NATO strikes or even nuclear use
It is not about image. Russia needs to behave within its own rules and culture and not become the monsters they are fighting who are happy to murder civilians to embarrass an opponent or casual rival.
Russia needs to implement the sanitation zone - with minimal casualties
Russia can keep grinding... the US is desperate for solutions before November, Russia does not care about such deadlines... they can just keep chipping away at Ukro forces and liberate the territories that have voted to join the Russian Federation and once that is achieved the land beyond that is not that easy to defend so advancing 300km to create a buffer zone to protect Russian territory from nazi attack simply makes common sense but as HATO escalates and gives longer ranged weapons then the distance they need to push back to create this buffer zone gets bigger and bigger... till they reach HATO territory where any attack from HATO territory becomes something new... nukes can't be justified against Kiev but against a nuclear armed military power like HATO then it would become necessary...
The retreats and gestures of goodwill created this, now he needs to own it and do what needs to be done
The retreats were necessary because they didn't have enough troops on the ground to hold such large volumes of territory, so they included it in a peace treaty.
Turns out Kiev is incapable of being honest when it comes to peace treaties and Europe is worse, so the future of the conflict is not going to be any peace treaty with anyone.
The destruction of the Ukrainian military is the only solution left.
HATO sends in troops... introduce them to Pinocchio and Tulip and FAB-3000 glide bombs, not to mention other interesting missiles and weapons.
As if the West will let Russia wrap up the war there in this squeeky clean manner with a bowtie on top that you advocate, Arkhangelsk. It doesn't work that way. They won't let you implement the scenario that you hope for. Sanitation zone or whatever.
The west can huff and puff all they please... if they send in troops then those troops can get burned... HATO intervention into "Russian" territory, whether in the Ukraine or Kaliningrad is a nuke-able offense...
You talk about there being no way to attack NATO
When HATO says Kiev can hit anything they please then Russia is free to do the same...
Yeah NATO found a way because you guys have us the way.
You got the war you wanted, stop pretending Putin did this.
If you didn't make these silly mistakes we wouldn't have had it.
See above.
You can blame us for our share but you knew dam well say one of given the chance we would take it, so you foolishly gave us the chance and shocker we took it.
So it is Russias fault the west is a bunch of evil colonial
.
As the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me anymore then that well we know who the dumb sob is"
They know you are evil... there is no surprise here at all...
And you keep giving us more and more by refusing to end this ASAP.
Hahahaha... you think your situation is improving the longer this takes?
Own shares in the US MIC?
This is making Russia more independent and understanding much better its place in the world and your place too.
At this point Russia isn't getting all of Ukraine that ship as sailed, beat you guys can now hope for us getting up to the dneprio and Odessa and it's only a matter of time before those windows close also
It is funny you think the west gets any say in this...
You don't get to whine like a lil bitch that Russian military assist are behind attacked, doesn't matter who the orders come from a legitimate target is. A legitimate target.
It has been HATO that has been supplying weapons but putting limits on where and what Kiev can use those weapons for because they don't want to join Russias list of legitimate targets for being Kievs logistics and C4ISTAR centre... guess what happens when those limits go?
So your latest outburst isn't based on something that's actually happened but something you've imagined in your mind?
X2
If NATO approves strikes on Russia the military campaign will immediately become a lot more complicated as there won't be a secure rear, or a secure military-industrial base, or a secure environment for the civilian population.
If HATO approves attacks in Russias rear then Russia can approve the obvious response of attacks on Ukrainian C4ISTAR and logistics and support located in HATO countries.
That was why HATO didn't approve attacks on Russian territory, what else would they expect Russia to do?
Now answer why do you think they've thought up of missile strikes on Russia as a means of changing that dynamic?
They know Ukraine is going to lose... they can pump all the money they want into the country and their own pockets... what they are thinking about now is themselves and HATO and if HATO fails in the Ukraine what use is it?
Well it becomes useful if Russia directly threatens other HATO countries and making HATO countries supporting Kiev fair game is a great way to get Russia to engage such countries and of course they will squeal like stuck pigs...
Except the Israeli and South Korean missiles will be impacting Russia and killing Russians, while the Iranian and North Korean missiles will be sitting in their launch vehicles safe and harmless.
South Korea is a small very densely populated country and Israel has a tiny population too... they are not going to launch any strikes on Russia any time soon... and if they tried the response from Russia would be worse than any attack Iran or North Korea could have launched at them.
And everyone will have a good laugh at Russia together.
Funny little world you have in your head there... south korea wont be nuking anyone because they have no nukes and the effectiveness of a few missile strikes from them against Russian territory would be rather unimpressive. Israel has nukes but to use them would be to invite their own destruction.
Iran and North Korea already have good missile technology... they got it from the Ukraine...
- and all counts for nothing if you don't have the balls to use it in your own defense.
Doesn't mean much if you use it every chance you get either.
They'll fly them from Polish and Romanian airfields
And you will be on here explaining why Russia can't strike them.
Once they attack targets they are fair game no matter whose airspace they are in... or whose airfield they operate from.
Doesn't matter if you're Mike Tyson, if all you do with your arms is defend and never attack, the opponent will eventually find a way through and do damage to you.
When the Ukraine runs out of men essentially what we are saying is that Mike just ripped Kievs arms off...
If Russia fails to do this it will be interpreted as Russia punking out.
Interpreted by whom?
The west won the propaganda war decades ago... how is that keeping them warm in winter time?
American culture is a very direct one. They have no concept of Eastern cultures' subtlety or delayed revenge or whatever. It's like those Hollywood movies with the high school jock picking on the nerdy Asian kid or whatever. You don't want to be the nerdy Asian kid, even if you do get your revenge 5 years later or whatever. They won't respect that.
American culture is turning into a toilet... it is hardly a culture anyone should respect or try to emulate.
What Russia can do is go bigger, harder and longer on Ukrs, plain and simple
As for NATO that's for later, finish Ukrs first
Russia is waiting for this to become official HATO policy and then their response will be in kind... but of course they are running out of men so it might not matter too much anyway.
These people basically gave NATO and Ukraine a path to strikes on Russia
Look at who likes your post...
We aren't directly attacking as I said we are giving them weapons and pointing out targets sure, learn the difference.
So you say, but will Russia really care much about the distinction?
Oh btw the Russian did the same shit to us during during a few of our old wars, I'll give you a hint one was in Asia region.
Yeah, but remember you were the bad guys there too... white colonials imposing their will and culture on other countries... you would think you would stop but you never do.
It should be obvious that the leadership is not as great as people were claiming, especially after all the firings/demotions/rearranging of deck chairs…
Changing positions is normal during a new election cycle, and I am not sure how being more of a **** would make anything at all better for Russia.
My theory about why so-called Russia supporters here oppose Russia retaliating against NATO is that these people live in the Western countries themselves. They are afraid for their own skin. They might like Russia and support Russia, but when their own well-being is on the line they would rather have Russia defeated than risk their own livelihoods.
My theory is that you have opened your eyes to the evil of the west and the impossibility of redemption because all political parties are just as corrupt and evil and that the only solution is destruction and only Russia has the power to implement such a solution...
And Russia will be defeated unless it starts to retaliate.
So you keep saying, but how does that work?
I realise stupid escalations by the west in the past in every aspect... cultural, political and military, have enabled Putin to make choices and moves to improve the situation for Russia and reflect the damage back at the west improving Russias position, but I don't think if Russia stops retaliating that much will change really.
Eventually the west is going to go too far and nukes will be put on alert or perhaps even used, but even in its broken state the west is not suicidal... it loves itself too much to deny the world of its existence.
Politico is reporting Thursday afternoon, "The Biden administration has quietly given Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia — solely near the area of Kharkiv — using U.S.-provided weapons, two U.S. officials and two other people familiar with the move said Thursday, a major reversal that will help Ukraine to better defend its second-largest city."
Kiev has been mounting attacks from that region into Russian territory since 2014, which is why Russian forces are moving in that direction now.
Kiev being able to shell civilian targets in Russia will only kill more Ukrainian soldiers.
However, this is surely going to be a distinction without substance or meaning from Russia's point of view, as it makes attacking Russia's sovereign territory with US weaponry 'allowable' for the first time. According to more details of what are expected to be the immediate implications:
This is excellent because Russia knows where ATACMS are stored in HATO countries for transfer to Kiev and where orcs are being trained in HATO countries... places that can be easily targeted when needed.
It is NATO's intention to prevent Russia from "finishing Ukraine" by escalating to war to a point of direct NATO strikes inside Russian borders.
It was also HATOs intention not to agree to anything and to let Kiev sort everything out on the Battlefield.
NATO will be hitting critical and strategic Russian infrastructure including powerplants and arms manufacturers and military bases. These missiles will launched from NATO countries such as Poland, Romania and Baltic countries.
Except a lot of that infrastructure in Russia could be defended by Russian Air Defences, while those missiles launched from HATO countries would be obvious targets for Russian missiles that western air defences are known to not be able to stop.
Under these circumstances Russia will not only be prevented from "finishing off Ukraine" but will be completely defeated if they refuse to retaliate. There will be nothing left from Russia's military and military industrial complex after NATO has finished its attack.
Hahaha... yeah, because Russia has never responded ever before to any Orc attack ever... get your head out of your arse.
Any missiles fired from HATO territory at targets in Russia is an act of war... Article 5 is meaningless because the attack was initiated by them so there is nothing to defend if Russia responds to such an act of war.
10 ATACMS operational-tactical missiles were downed.
But but but that can't be true because ATACMS are magical and can't be shot down by anything...
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Arkanghelsk
After a long break, another exchange of prisoners of war took place.
Sofa General Staff
Previously, in underground facilities, training of flight crews of the Ukrainian Air Force and preparation for organizing flights took place in coordination with the NATO control center located in Poland. At the time of the strike, there were up to 410 people there.
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