Isos wrote: Better would have been to just accelerate and leave the position. Impact would have done no damage.
Then you'll become one to whine about how useless Pantsir is. It just ran away. HIMARS is hitting everything. Useless Russian AD.
Fix your damm mind, you want AD to shoot down something (and risking getting hit) or keep running?
Shooting down a missile that's gonna hit rocks is useless. They can inovate a bit with their weapons.
Good mobility of pantsir allows them to turn on their radar, let the enemy fire at it, detect the rockets and just accelerate to 50km/h and leave the area before the impacts happen. This way they will empty ukro stocks, and pantsir will be seen as a tricky target and won't fire at it that much after they learn russians use them.
Ukrainians on the other hand are very innovative with their weapons with lot of successes. They were the firsts to use dumb civilian drone with grenades. I guess it's their position of weakness that pushes them to innovate.
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Being an adult and being a punching bag are two different things.
Only you are claiming Putin to be a punching bag.
(BTW if that were true the west would love him... he would be their favourite politician... the reality is that western leaders are punching bags and take regular punches from the US and just take it like bitches).
Acting like a child while being an adult leads to being arrested as a person. As a country acting out and being irrational and so fragile as the west leads to isolation... economic and political... which is what the west wants for Russia but sensible responses and careful moves have led to the west showing itself to be the nutter in this and many other situations.
I mean when American diplomats say to be Americas enemy is dangerous but to be their ally is fatal... well you work it out.
The firing angle of those CIWS is good against airborne targets. For unmanned boats there are not close enough to the sides of the ship. Put a few Gatling guns there. The calibre isn´t so important, just something that can spit out a lot of rounds.
If the threat is a sea surface drone with 300kgs of explosives then you seriously want to hit it before it gets within about 100m of your ship or it is going to kill and injure people on deck anyway... and also damage optics and sensors too.
Most Russian ships have HMG mounted on the decks for shooting at targets in the water...
Better would have been to just accelerate and leave the position. Impact would have done no damage.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
btw Russia has bombed Ukraine with Iranian made drones, shells etc.
Russia hits military targets, while Ukraine goes for markets and bakeries because military targets are too well protected.
So by this logic Russia is breaking its own rule as its using foreign provided weapons to strike within Ukraine, not Ukie forces on Russian soil..
Russia has been licence producing those Iranian drones for itself for some time. The original designs would likely be jammed by Russian EW equipment and likely would not have good enough navigation equipment for the Russians to want to use.
HATO refused to allow Kiev to hit targets inside undesputed Russian territory in the hope that Russia would not hit targets supporting Kiev inside HATO and EU countries...
If HATO now wants to drop that limitation then they have to accept that Russia might decide to also not spare targets in HATO countries openly supporting the nazi regime in Kiev.
Lots of HATO recon systems operating in the Black Sea that might end up finding out...
It seems NATO is preparing a first strike on Russia
Seems they creep to remove radars, S400 batteries and other equipment that could prevent their first strike
Then they are terrible at it... there are hundreds of S-400 batteries in service and more are being made all the time and they hit maybe one or two radars for those batteries?
So in 100 years they wont have hit enough air defence infrastructure to allow a meaningful attack to be achieved... in fact the longer it takes the better defended the Russians will be... not to mention closer to HATO borders they will be.
But how will it come? Do you match NATO and start crippling their early warning system ? Or do you hit them even harder ?
You wait till a large contingent of their instructors have arrived and barbecue them...
Then watch with amusement their attempts to get more countries in HATO to volunteer to send troops to replace them...
The problem is, the Americunts and the Eurofags aren't scared of Russia.
Biden has just said Ukraine wont be joining HATO... after revealing he wont be attending the big peace extravaganza in Switzerland...
But NATO so far is not backing down.
Hungary and Turkey are part of HATO but are not part of the problem. A few little fuckers yap like purse dogs... which is sad when it is the leaders of the UK and France and Germany and US, but at the end of the day it is their collapse that is most likely (as a group). Turkey is applying to join BRICS because it has been ignored all these decades to join the EU...
The position for Russia actually looks rather solid... I don't know why some are falling apart now.
IMO the next attack will be a mixed package of ATACMS, Scalps and Drones
They will mix in hits on frontline targets with some hit on some sensitive target
They might attack targets, but whether they hit any of them is another matter.
Radakins comments suggests that the British don’t consider the Russian nuclear deterrent a factor at all
The British are meaningless and have been for quite some time... as a target... inbred poo pushers the lot of them.... they have lots of traditions... many of them involve buggery of the staff.
The message they send is, we don’t care about your nuclear deterrent , you are too pussy to use it so we will hit you as we see fit
Russian officials have said Kiev is not dangerous enough to warrant the use of nuclear weapons but the use of HATO weapons and HATO troops led to training with tactical nuclear weapons by the Russian military.
If they think they are bluffing then that is fine... it doesn't matter what they think or say, it is what they do and if Putin thinks it is worth it... no point in having them if you never use them.
Remember the west claimed Putin would never invade anyone because he is weak... after Syria... they still thought he was too weak to start a war in Europe... now he is too weak to use tactical nukes...
We will see, but so far the record is not looking good regarding the wests predictions... running out of men and tanks and aircraft and ammo and missiles and bombs... and being isolated by the entire world... wrong every time but they never change policy or view... sanctions are working they just need more time and more sanctions...
Idiots.
If the roles were reversed the West would never allow this to happen.
The all powerful west... economies declining, US dollar no longer the dominant currency of trade in the world... being asked to leave from many of those 800 countries it occupies... when they want something it happens... NOT.
Remember those idiotic talks "from Lisbon to Vladivostok" about ten years ago?
How much has this appeasement policy cost Russia?
It cost them nothing... it gave them 20 years of cooperation and trade with the west to grow and develop their own technology base to the point where they can be independent of the west.
Russia offered a hand of friendship and the people in power in the west slapped it away and told him that civilised people just do what the US tells them to. 20 years and plenty of different political powers in charge of the various countries and the results were the same, so now when Russia turns away from the west no one can say he didn't try to go down the path of cooperation and trade.
Now he is taking Russia towards BRICS which is all about cooperation and trade without anyone imposing culture or language or religion on anyone else... China can remain communist and India and Russia can be democracies... Indonesia and saudi arabia can be muslim etc etc etc.
No bullying, no sanctions, just trade and cooperation and growth and development.
Now Putin's dreams have been shattered. He will never again stand aside Western leaders, talk to them and trade with them. The West wants to kill him.
I suspect Putin is smart enough to work out very early on that the west would never tolerate a strong Russia or a strong China or a strong anyone else... even the EU had to be broken by taking away its cheap energy.
Putin, despite his popularity, could never get Russians to get over their fantasies about the west... it took the west to take off its mask and reveal the true evil residing there to get Russian oligarchs to stop investing in other countries and buying houses in the west and yachts and other shit.
Now Russia will turn away from the west and embrace the rest of the world and to be honest there is a much better future for Russia and Russians with rest of the world.
Development and growth are great plant food for growing money and businesses... that is why western companies invested in Russia and many don't want to leave because they are making very good money.
Part of that of course is that Putin has created rules to make it expensive to leave... you are giving up your business essentially for 10 cents in the dollar of value... those who can are staying.
And when the west steals Russian assets in the west, then those are some of the assets Russia can pick and choose to take in return.
The West knows that Putin is an empty suit.
The west has seen Russia grow and develop into a real threat... could have been a very powerful partner, but they made them an enemy... so now it is threat.
SPIEF and BRICS are secondary to the survival of the state
SPIEF and BRICS are the keys to Russias future without the west and the worlds future with the west being a cog instead of thinking it is the whole car.
The survival of the state comes down to the Russian military and nuclear weapons.... and apart from the US no one else comes close to Russia... and how reliable is the US?
All that work that Russia's government did over the last 2+ years will go into the trash anyway if NATO missiles start impacting Russian cities, factories, etc..
The simple fact is that Kiev on their own is no threat to Russia, but Kiev with HATO weapons and HATO C4ISTAR systems is a threat that would require a nuclear response...
many others on both sides said that it's not worth taking out, as most military supplies go overland via the new railroad along the Azov Sea coast. But I like that they use their old An-26s as MPA, & those can be converted to gunships, if need be.
Transport plane based gunships are too vulnerable in a modern warzone. AC-130 type aircraft wouldn't last 10 minutes...
It is an asymmetric economic war with Europe, carried by the US, with a clear goal to pauperize it.
So not all bad then? Especially when they are inflicting pain on themselves at the same time... the money printer is getting very hot...
Shooting down a missile that's gonna hit rocks is useless. They can inovate a bit with their weapons.
Many missiles don't manouver except in the last few seconds of flight to try to hit the point of aim... what if it turns at the last second or two and goes for something important... by the time you realise that it is too late to do anything about it.
Ukrainians on the other hand are very innovative with their weapons with lot of successes. They were the firsts to use dumb civilian drone with grenades.
Innovative?
I used my friends drone to drop water balloons on neighbours 20 years ago... it is hardly rocket science or curing cancer.
Last edited by GarryB on Wed Jun 05, 2024 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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All that work that Russia's government did over the last 2+ years will go into the trash anyway if NATO missiles start impacting Russian cities, factories, etc..
And even Russia's military-industrial production advantage can be cut-down if it starts to come under attack, while NATO's military industries remain safe and sound and are able to ramp up however slowly - unmolested
yes and no, depending on say attack rate and weapons' used. So far they have 300km range? then push them back 300km. Level everything on your way. Much better than a nuclear war.
Understand this - if it's possible to get NATO to back down and cease further escalations, by downing some Global Hawk in the Black Sea or whatever; then I'm all for it.
That would be a good signal imho . Weapons for Yemeni resistance too. Talibs shall be not considered terrorists but Zelensky and co + NATO yes, they should..
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Western MSM coverage of Russian military capability is brain rotting cringe. None of the NATzO "game changer" weapons have proven themselves. None. Meanwhile the Russian Lancet drone was a real game changer and the current glide bomb campaign is proving real world effectiveness and not NATzO fanboi masturbation.
This denigration of Russian capability also manifests in the current insane dismissal of nuclear war risk. Hordes of NATzO lemmings are squeaking about Putin's bluff. As if the last two years are some sort of bluff. The retards.
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Why is it happening all at once ? You know China and Taiwan , Israel and Palestine and Russia and NATO ? Has the Empire lost it's marbles ? I used to think " ...why don't the world unite and settle the score with the Empire , once and for all ? " Alas , there was no unity of action . Nobody would coordinate a simultaneous assault , rendering the Empire forces useless ! But what the multi- polar world could not accomplish , the Empire is accomplishing itself . The death pangs of a dinosaur about to go extinct ?
Good mobility of pantsir allows them to turn on their radar, let the enemy fire at it, detect the rockets and just accelerate to 50km/h and leave the area before the impacts happen. This way they will empty ukro stocks, and pantsir will be seen as a tricky target and won't fire at it that much after they learn russians use them.
unlikely since they don't do it. Transitioning from road deployment mode to march mode takes about 5 minutes to make the switch..
Putin announced the number of prisoners: we have 6,465 prisoners of the Kyiv regime. they have 1,348 of our prisoners. We also announced our estimate of their losses per month - about 50 thousand irrevocable and sanitary (50 to 50). This is the most conservative estimate.
The ratio of irretrievable losses of forces of the Russian Federation and Ukraine is 1 to 5, Putin said.
Here is nice and safe retaliation target that gets the point (and pollutants) across without any WW3 drama that some folks here are needlessly shitting their pants over:
Just wait for weather forecast to hit the sweet spot and go to town on it
Transport plane based gunships are too vulnerable in a modern warzone. AC-130 type aircraft wouldn't last 10 minutes...
Still, the An-26s could be used as gunships for killing Ukr. sea drones/SF/marines- only a few Be-12 left in operation, while many Mi-17/24/35/28s r needed at the front.
Arrow wrote:"Moscow will consider an asymmetric response to the supply of weapons for attacks on the Russian Federation, Putin said"
+
from, the same interview: Putin noted that the United States or Great Britain were behind these attacks , depending on whose weapons they were. Russia , in turn, retains the right to send weapons to regions from where attacks will be carried out on sensitive targets in countries providing military assistance to Kiev , he added.
Путин отметил, что за этими атаками стоят США или Великобритания — в зависимости от того, чье это вооружение. Россия, в свою очередь, сохраняет за собой право направлять оружие в регионы, откуда будут наноситься удары по чувствительным объектам стран, оказывающих военную помощь Киеву, добавил он.
https://ria.ru/20240605/putin-1950823934.html
Red Sea Baby? Iran, Korea damn Caledonia?
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Still, the An-26s could be used as gunships for killing Ukr. sea drones/SF/marines- only a few Be-12 left in operation, while many Mi-17/24/35/28s r needed at the front.
The AN-26 would be too fast for engaging sea drones, and too slow and soft to be safe... it took years to get the AC-130 to a useful level and even then several have been shot down by weapons like MANPADS... which proliferate on this battlefield.
The AC-130 is a good support aircraft for US special forces operating against 3rd world countries with no superpower support, but that is about all.
The Russian Navy has plenty of helicopters for the job of chasing down drones...
Late model Hinds with chin turret mounted 23mm cannon and door guns would be ideal, as would Ka-29s with nose mounted MG and door mounted guns.
They really need to arm the Houthis to sink a carrier. That'll learn em.
Putin will weigh up the options and pick something that is most "effective" for Russia.
Somehow that grabbed an unrelated, albeit good, quote by Garry. Sorry about that. Anyways. . . .
Some like our very own Kent Brockman think Putin is being a punching bag by promising asymetrical responses to NATO allowing Ukraine to fire weapons into Russia itself. I disagree. Only a moron tells his enemy what he plans to do. Russia has all sorts of means to strike back at the west. These includes attacks on European and American energy grids. Russian linked hackers are at least alleged to have taken down the municipal government websites of several American cities. I am sure if they wanted to they could wreak havoc on the American and EU energy grids (its hot in America in the summer and an electrical shutdown would slow down the US economy and lower most people's support for this war). Russia could hit American forces illegally occupying Syria. They could arm the Houthis to help them and Iran take out American and NATO war ships. Saboteurs could hit European and American arms factories, especially those involved in making the long range weapons hitting Russia. They could organize coups and "democracy movements" in Africa and Latin America and other places the US seeks to exert influence on. IF Putin announces how he plans to react, safeguards can be put into play. By keeping his cards close to his chest he has an advantage of being able to hit in the fashion he sees most effective.
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Still, the An-26s could be used as gunships for killing Ukr. sea drones/SF/marines- only a few Be-12 left in operation, while many Mi-17/24/35/28s r needed at the front.
The AN-26 would be too fast for engaging sea drones, and too slow and soft to be safe... it took years to get the AC-130 to a useful level and even then several have been shot down by weapons like MANPADS... which proliferate on this battlefield.
In 2006, the much faster & well armed An-72P was proposed: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/ui8ybz/an72p_patrol_gunship_version_of_ukrainian/#lightbox https://www.generalequipment.info/AN72P.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-72#Variants
There's also no particular reason why Russia would have to stick with the An-12 as the platform for an operational gunship. Blackwater founder and notorious private military contractor Erik Prince had proposed converting smaller twin-engine An-26 turboprops into side-firing gunships as part of a plan to form a private air force to support the government of Afghanistan. Many of Antonov's smaller designs also had similar bombing capabilities to the An-12, too. The Indian and Iraqi Air Forces have been particularly significant users of the An-32 in the bomber role in the past. With this in mind, a Russian-made side-firing gunship design could find significant interest on the export market. Lockheed Martin is already pitching a kit to convert C-130s into armed special operations platforms and Airbus and Leonardo offer similar conversions for the twin-engine C-295 and C-27J turboprop cargo planes respectively. https://www.twz.com/28717/russia-reportedly-developing-its-own-ac-130-like-gunship-from-converted-an-12-cargo-planes
The slower An-26 has smaller turn radius than the AC-130, An-12 & An-72, so it could deal with surface targets if simularly armed.
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:58 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
GunshipDemocracy wrote:from, the same interview: Putin noted that the United States or Great Britain were behind these attacks , depending on whose weapons they were. Russia , in turn, retains the right to send weapons to regions from where attacks will be carried out on sensitive targets in countries providing military assistance to Kiev , he added.
Agree to a symmetric but symbolic and non-destructive response . Any real attack causing casualties or material damage , will at such economies of scale be in all reality militarily insignificant but is psychologically damaging to sense of security of private citizens , only serving to garner political support by the Hawks for more damaging attacks inside Russia by the Orcs .
The greatest damage against the MIC can be inflicted politically by the local population . These psychological effects can be achieved by : ( 1 ) A high altitude EMP non-nuclear low orbital device or Flare . ( 2 ) Damaging a national monument by missile . ( 3 ) A TV transmission , disrupting local programmes , message of peace from Putin . All these demonstrative acts will have far greater impact on MIC and war Hawks . All carried out by LDPR liberation front . Asymmetric responses or a hidden response even if military significant at small scale ( must start small ) , will achieve nothing to deter further attacks inside Russia by the Orcs / Hawks .
Good mobility of pantsir allows them to turn on their radar, let the enemy fire at it, detect the rockets and just accelerate to 50km/h and leave the area before the impacts happen. This way they will empty ukro stocks, and pantsir will be seen as a tricky target and won't fire at it that much after they learn russians use them.
unlikely since they don't do it. Transitioning from road deployment mode to march mode takes about 5 minutes to make the switch..
Newer versions can fire on the move. Very possible and easy to implement.
Good mobility of pantsir allows them to turn on their radar, let the enemy fire at it, detect the rockets and just accelerate to 50km/h and leave the area before the impacts happen. This way they will empty ukro stocks, and pantsir will be seen as a tricky target and won't fire at it that much after they learn russians use them.
unlikely since they don't do it. Transitioning from road deployment mode to march mode takes about 5 minutes to make the switch..
Newer versions can fire on the move. Very possible and easy to implement.
I believe the tracked version can fire on the move but I don't think it has entered service - yet.
ucmvulcan wrote:Somehow that grabbed an unrelated, albeit good, quote by Garry. Sorry about that. Anyways. . . .
Some like our very own Kent Brockman think Putin is being a punching bag by promising asymetrical responses to NATO allowing Ukraine to fire weapons into Russia itself. I disagree. Only a moron tells his enemy what he plans to do. Russia has all sorts of means to strike back at the west. These includes attacks on European and American energy grids. Russian linked hackers are at least alleged to have taken down the municipal government websites of several American cities. I am sure if they wanted to they could wreak havoc on the American and EU energy grids (its hot in America in the summer and an electrical shutdown would slow down the US economy and lower most people's support for this war). Russia could hit American forces illegally occupying Syria. They could arm the Houthis to help them and Iran take out American and NATO war ships. Saboteurs could hit European and American arms factories, especially those involved in making the long range weapons hitting Russia. They could organize coups and "democracy movements" in Africa and Latin America and other places the US seeks to exert influence on. IF Putin announces how he plans to react, safeguards can be put into play. By keeping his cards close to his chest he has an advantage of being able to hit in the fashion he sees most effective.
There are lots of ways to react, but what you are missing here is that nearly all of these ways will be interpreted by Washington as 'weakness', and an invitation to escalate further.
The only way out of this is to demonstrate the willingness to trade punches straight up
Only the threat of Armageddon has checked Biden's administration's willingness so far, to carry out attacks on Russian soil, allegedly limiting them to just some border territories for now.
If Russia demonstrates that it's only willing to supply some weapons to some New Caledonians, or whatever Putin is talking about now, then that fear will subside and what will happen next?
Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Orders could come from Ezekiel Abaddon for what it's worth, ot doesn't matter, it's still just Ukraine
Don't hate the player, just kill him
Who the fk is going to give the Ukraine ATACMS or even HIMARS, or put such systems under their command?
It's like giving a monkey a grenade. First of all they don't know how to use it. Secondly you can't trust them to use it responsibly. What if they try to use it to kill Putin next time he visits the Crimea? It takes years to train specialists for such systems. Same reason the Patriots in the Ukraine are manned by NATO crews.
So no I'm afraid 'giving the Ukraine weapons' is just a cock & bull story.
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