Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

flamming_python wrote:
I really would not put overly much stock into the claims of enemy propaganda mouthpieces smack in the middle of an ongoing offensive and corresponding info-war campaign.

Based on what information, did you decide that there were even 100 prisoners at all, nevermind 100 conscripts?
I've already posted a video Ukrainians filmed where there was a captured FSB borderguard with certainly hair length far beyond anything tolerated during my time - claiming that he was a conscript.
The Ukros are engaged in a massive bullshit operation here. Both about who they took prisoner and how many.

Not that I entirely discount the possibility of course, of a large number of Russian POWs captured. One can't assume the competency of green units and their commanders. But it would be pretty strange if several times as many Russians would have been captured on their own land as Ukrainian troops on enemy land while the later are basically fighting at a disadvantage and being attacked from the air as well.

lancelot wrote:So what if Russia was caught somewhat unprepared at Kursk? No one in their right mind would think the Ukrainians would do such a dumb move. It is as simple as that. Look at the Kursk border region. It is empty spaces and tiny hamlets. The largest place they captured at Kursk is Sudzha. A place with a population of 5,127 people. Compare that with Niu York that the Russians captured at roughly the same time with a pre war population of 10,064.

Just continue thinking Ukraine is doing some sort of masterstroke with this move when all they will get is a boot to their face.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes, there is, if you miss a mass grouping of enemy forces and those forces exploit that to execute a surprise attack, that is the very definition of being caught with your pants down.

The saying means that you are caught unaware and taken by surprise, that the text book  example of it

This cope is getting sad,

what you said makes sense if they weren't scrambling to redeploy forces, and the fact is the russians were in a huge rush to move troops from other areas, it was not a well-coordinated move they were sending units piecemeal into areas to organize them.

IF what you said was true they would have had these forces at staging points ready to counter-attack much sooner than they did, fact is they weren't hence that russian convoy getting himmered.

Russia wasn't expecting this attack, they didn't know about it until it happened.

The only reason Ukraine failed to penetrate deeper is because they have so few forces to spare they could not group up the numbers needed

flamming_python wrote:Based on what information, did you decide that there were even 100 prisoners at all, nevermind 100 conscripts?
Not that I entirely discount the possibility of course, of a large number of Russian POWs captured. One can't assume the competency of green units and their commanders. But it would be pretty strange if several times as many Russians would have been captured on their own land as Ukrainian troops on enemy land while the later are basically fighting at a disadvantage and being attacked from the air as well.

caveat emptor wrote:You misunderstood me. Ukrainians are claiming they hold over 1k Russian POWs, taken in this incursion alone.

Broski wrote:Yes, lets give the side that's lied about everything the benefit of the doubt for the millionth time, Jesus F Christ! We've seen videos of these scumbags kidnapping Russian civilians from areas they've invaded and laughing their ass off while doing it, which is exactly what you'd expect from White ISIS. Obviously they'll try to use this as a bargaining chip to get some Nazi POW's back, or kill them, or both, because that's what terrorists do.

ALAMO wrote:Russian official data claim that they don't know the fate of about 2000 civilians.
If we will combine that with the materials revealed on ukro body cams, we can seriously consider a mass hostage taking.

Arrow wrote:How many more of these S 300 systems can Ukraine have, every now and then they destroy some S 300 after two years of war. The number of launchers was probably much greater than officially reported.

caveat emptor wrote:Many units were overrun in the first two days of the attack. I would not expect conscripts or border guards to fare well against mechanized units. Most likely, conscript units are stripped of some officers, as well, who are taking part in the active fighting in other areas. 
As I said, I doubt the numbers in the article, but also Russian MoD should come out with the real number. 
As for Ukrainians, they were coming up with some crazy numbers of over 1000 POWs.
As for what's strange and what's not, observing this war for so long, nothing is that strange anymore.

Arrow wrote:How many more of these S 300 systems can Ukraine have, every now and then they destroy some S 300 after two years of war. The number of launchers was probably much greater than officially reported.

caveat emptor wrote:It's not excluded that Greeks sent Cyprian systems, as well. Actually, those would be most modern Ukrainians would have, if that was the case. Also, Bulgarians should have some.

flamming_python wrote:

Overrun with propaganda more like. ... Especially when it's coming from the Ukrainians, who after the first couple of weeks of the war were already claiming that they killed 10,000 Russian troops and destroyed 100 Russian aircraft.

caveat wrote:
As i said, MoD should announce numbers and end all speculations.

caveat emptor wrote:

As i said, MoD should announce numbers and end all speculations.

flamming_python wrote:
MoD is not going to announce jack. If you want to run with Ukro numbers be my guest

ucmvulcan wrote:

what's in it for MoD? They tell the truth and its only like 60 thousand and they get accused of lying.  They tell the truth and its 100 or 200 thousand like some of you assholes who will remain nameless want? Its a cause celebree in the west.  Keep it a secret.  Keep the whole thing a secret.  The west and Ukraine already does things based on believing their own lies.  West says Russia out of missiles by the end of March (2022) hit Kiev hard in April 2022.  West says Russia out of tanks? Parade t-72 and newer variants.  Russia can't supply winter clothing to its troops? Take pics from the front of troops in winter gear.  Troops using mosin nagants? Take pics of troops with latest model kalashnikovs.   They say they shot down more rockets than you launched? Show pics of the burned out targets that "intercepted" your rockets. In no way do you risk opsec.  No pics of deployments.  No current footage by RT of the front.  They love murdering journalists, don't give them that chance.  

caveat emptor wrote:

I'm talking about number of POW conscripts, as this is very sensitive subject. I don't know if you're aware, but many people in Russia still remember issues around conscripts during Chechen wars.

ucmvulcan wrote:

Many in America still remember conscription from Vietnam.  Its why Biden's ploy to bring back and expand selective service caused outrage.  Want to deal with anger over conscription? Show victories.  Take care of the families of the dead and wounded, and win the fucking war.  You and I don't need to know because Ukraine and NATO sure as shit don't need to know.