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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:38 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    It's not a problem what i will be "running with". Question is what Russian population, or at least part of it, will go with, as Russian MoD says zilch.
    You're a self proclaimed communist. I don't think i have to tell you how seriously Soviet Union took propaganda war and informational hygiene during WW2.
    When we are at Russian MoD and propaganda, interesting story is that Andrei Ilnitsky, that was in charge of informational work in MoD, was fired recently. His previous experience was as a manager in Khodorkovsky organization Open Russia from 2003-06., meaning during Yukos affair. How was this subversive element allowed to be employed there is a big question and another in the long string of pearls?

    Bud the only one going with Ukr claims are you and the rest of the Telegram housewives

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:38 am

    Drama queens.

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    Post  Kiko Tue Aug 20, 2024 2:58 am

    Rogov: Russian Armed Forces liberated the village of New York in the DPR.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:44 am

    "Putin's zero reaction to the events in Kursk region proves that there is no reason not to give us permission to strike the Russian Federation with long-range weapons" - Zelensky

    There is a lot of desperation visible in Kiev.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Aug 20, 2024 4:04 am

    Arrow wrote:"Putin's zero reaction to the events in Kursk region proves that there is no reason not to give us permission to strike the Russian Federation with long-range weapons" - Zelensky

    There is a lot of desperation visible in Kiev.

    I mean this statement isn't wrong.....I don't know why your getting that out of these words.

    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"

    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.

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    Post  Arsenic Tue Aug 20, 2024 4:08 am

    unfortunately, so true…

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Aug 20, 2024 4:41 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I mean this statement isn't wrong.....I don't know why your getting that out of these words.

    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"

    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.

    He's not saying anything logical at all. Barely any time has passed for Russia to have reacted

    You're not going to get a nuclear strike on Kiev but negotiations being ruled out lends itself to the conclusion that the city will have be besieged, stormed and taken.

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    Post  Isos Tue Aug 20, 2024 6:29 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Arrow wrote:"Putin's zero reaction to the events in Kursk region proves that there is no reason not to give us permission to strike the Russian Federation with long-range weapons" - Zelensky

    There is a lot of desperation visible in Kiev.

    I mean this statement isn't wrong.....I don't know why your getting that out of these words.

    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"

    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.

    Untill there is a reaction and no more Kiev.

    This guy is under coke. If Putin was as crazy as him there would be radioactive clouds everwhere and 5 million men army in Poland.

    Reality is more complicated. In Kursk they are hunting ukros like rabbits. Why would they overeact when the enemy sends thousands of fighters get killed ?

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    Post  lancelot Tue Aug 20, 2024 6:51 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I mean this statement isn't wrong.....I don't know why your getting that out of these words.

    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"

    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.
    They crossed Russia's red lines. And got invaded and lost 20% of their territory. Probably half a million or a million dead and severely injured. Almost half of their power generation destroyed. Half of their population emigrated. A couple million of their citizens moved into Russia.

    There is plenty Russia could do to make the Ukr economy scream. From destroying Ukrainian nuclear power plants, their electric interconnections with Europe, mining the waters and sinking ships around Odessa, etc. Which thus far they have not done.

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    Post  TMA1 Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:39 am

    They invaded Ukraine didn't they? I wasn't expecting Russia to do this. Most didn't. If Russia was willing to invaded Ukraine they ultimately would be willing to go further, even to the point of nukes. It is clear that Putin is thinking of brics nations and Russia is making moves so as to not allow alliances to waver. As long as Russia is not doing anything hasty then you and I can sleep at night. As long as Russia isn't going full mobilization and/or doing live nuclear tests we are relatively safe. Same cannot be said for the poor soldiers dying because our elites here cannot relent a single bit and are acting bizarre to say the least.

    Edit:made a correction

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    Post  sepheronx Tue Aug 20, 2024 8:40 am

    Yes, indeed there is still a lot more options Russia has on the capabilities to deal with. Why place all your cards on the table all at once?

    One thing I never took into consideration with my rather distaste of how this war was being treated, was the other BRICS states. The Duran guys pointed out that Russia obtained a lot of pressure from India and China to go easy. There may be way too much truth to that, that I didn't even really think of.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:10 am

    And this is why I have been critical of Russian authorities:

    🇷🇺⚔🇺🇦 The Fascist Kiev Regime is using civilians as human shields and executing them at point-blank range in the border region of Kursk.

    "They find an orphanage, settle on the first floor... They force the children and teachers to the second floor, using them as shields," General Alaudinov reported.

    Footage from action cameras of AFU terrorists revealed their Nazi-like treatment of Russian civilians:

    "I received numerous photos showing civilians who were simply executed at point-blank range, shot in the head, in the back of the head. Unfortunately, all these civilians have perished."

    The general expressed his condolences to the families of the victims and promised that all the victims would be avenged.

    🔴 @DDGeopolitics

    They should have evacuated these people.
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:12 pm

    Arrow wrote:"Putin's zero reaction to the events in Kursk region proves that there is no reason not to give us permission to strike the Russian Federation with long-range weapons" - Zelensky

    There is a lot of desperation visible in Kiev.
    And it will amount to jack.

    Anything short of massive thermonuclear salvos will barely cripple a military superpower like Russia.

    Not even sure if that is enough. The Barbarossa Operation inflicted devastating apocalyptic levels of destruction to the Soviet heartland and it didn't. stop. the Russians.

    Probably easier to blow the planet apart than defeat these maniacs.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Aug 20, 2024 2:38 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    I mean this statement isn't wrong.....I don't know why your getting that out of these words.
    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"
    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.

    You are watching the whole situation from a very narrow and short angle.
    Ukrainian coup was nothing other than "punishing" Russia for not staying in line like the others.
    Unleashed by the Obama administration, by a direct order of his masters.
    The direct cause was Russian intervention in Syria, that destroyed a long lasting project of destabilizing and throwing under the bus one more Middle East country which opposed Israel.
    Russia humiliated muricans, and all the collective west that was involved in beefing up the terrorists for a decade.
    The final act of removing Syrian chemical weapons by a common, Russo-China naval group, was like splitting straight into the greedy faces of the whole bunch of muricas vassal states.
    It was Obama direct involvement that caused Putin to push Yanuk for negotiations.
    And just one more murican fraud, as they acted directly opposite to the mutual agreement.
    Crossing Russkie red lines ended up with 20% of Ukraine gone, and rolling.
    lancelot summarized that already.
    This state won't exist as independent after the war is over, and it is crystal clear to anyone who has at least two brain cells.
    And guess what? It was fully independent before 2014, and sucking Russkie cash dry on a shocking scale.
    Russian international position has never been better, and that is crystal clear to anyone who is not infused with the western shitstream.
    They became a hero to the global South, and the role of BRICS is grooming as we speak.
    We face a de facto alliance of Russia and China, being a direct opposite of the American struggle since the 60s.
    What is even more shocking, its economy is vibrantly booming.
    Russia is already a 4th world economy, the biggest in Europe.
    They have just hit 150 mln citizens, and growing.
    Last but not least, Putins approval ratings hitting historic heights.
    Not bad for a pussy.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Aug 20, 2024 2:49 pm

    Russia is already a 4th world economy, the biggest in Europe. They have just hit 150 mln citizens, and growing. wrote:

    And now the largest nuclear power in the world with a completely new nuclear triad. In addition, they are currently leading in the arms race, in almost every field they are building better and more modern weapons. The US can only go in quantity now. They are doing better now than in the Cold War. Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 20, 2024 5:55 pm

    I did, but it wasn't quantified. BMPD livejournal mentioned something about 10 in 2022, 12 2023 and 16-18 this year. This is only numbers i've seen quoted by reputable source.

    So going from 10 per year to 12 per year one year into a war and 16-18 per year... so they have not even doubled peace time production during war time... sounds like they have not lost their entire fleet nor do they expect to do so any time soon.

    Since he was always considered as a very solid and knowledgeable source on Russian military, there's nothing better out there to go with.

    And it is a rule that such people are never wrong...

    That is some next level cope, If it was just a few thousand missing them is understandable but with sates, recon drones etc amassing that many men and the russians missing it isn't defendable.

    Nothing can be hidden from satellites and men moving around in a country is obvious proof of an incursion in the planning... always.

    I don't even think Putin is that gullible enough to honor some "deal" about not attacking and thinning out troops on purpose, that is one of the silliest excuses I have heard to date

    Gulible doesn't come in to it.... ask Merkel and Holland... their names are going to be shit in Russian history books now... sometimes trust is necessary, but even if it only worked for 3 years and failed during the 3rd year it is probably still a good deal he would take again...

    his year, the industry in Russia has significantly increased production of combat aircraft. About 20 Su-34s and about 20 Su-57s are coming out. The question is how many Su-35s and Su-30s?

    Well there is proof if ever proof was needed... production of 16-18 is supposed to be proof that the Su-34s have been decimated... so 20 new Su-57s means they must have taken heavy losses too... Rolling Eyes

    Now several manuals have been prepared for journalists, in which the Russians are pre-assigned as the culprits.

    The problem they have is that they only control the western copy and pasters so no one will believe them anyway... except those already paid off and they likely knew in advance anyway.

    This is very bad, Russia needs 5th generation aircraft.

    I would have an enormous list of things they would need before I even mentioned 5th gen fighters.

    About the trap theory I also have my doubts, but it's somewhat more plausible to me than Russia simply not having any defenses there are at all because they thought some deal would be honored and then being blitzkrieg'd and having to rush reinforcements and throw conscripts into battle in desperation.

    You can call it a trap if you want to but it is how normal international borders work... amusing someone from New Zealand has to explain it to you guys... you get thousands of illegal immigrants crossing from Mexico into the US. Actually having a standing army of soldiers watching that border simply makes no sense at all... the border is too big and even if you did have people standing there with rifles and armour there wont be enough of a force of 12 thousand trained and armed men with artillery and drones and armoured vehicles suddenly appeared at one point in the line.

    It makes more sense to have guard posts and observation positions placed so they can see the border and if one or two mexicans try to cross somewhere you call a half dozen guys i a jeep to chase them down and lock them up to be sent back. When you see a 12K strong group with armour and drones and artillery you have to call a much bigger much better equipped force that will take longer to assemble and bring in to position.

    Call it a trap but that is just how it is... ask yourself if Israel can be surprised by a border incursion with all their fences and expensive border monitoring equipment who else has any chance at all.

    Like I said an invasion of Poland or Moldova or Romania and I suspect you would get to the capital before anyone noticed most of the time.

    Yes, there is, if you miss a mass grouping of enemy forces and those forces exploit that to execute a surprise attack, that is the very definition of being caught with your pants down.

    Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the word Surprise in the phrase surprise attack.

    Their pants are on and their belts are working... they were surprised and now they are ripping them a new one.

    If anyone has lost their pants and are taking a drubbing it is the Ukrainian forces.

    The saying means that you are caught unaware and taken by surprise, that the text book example of it

    With gay homo erotic, private school suggestions of buggery... which never happened.

    Russia wasn't expecting this attack, they didn't know about it until it happened.

    Which is directly implied by the term Surprise attack. Any other factors you want to discuss... like they took weapons and armour with them because they intended to fight?

    The only reason Ukraine failed to penetrate deeper is because they have so few forces to spare they could not group up the numbers needed

    Continuing the unpleasant homo erotic imagery I see... the reason they didn't do better was because large convoys of men and vehicles would have been shredded so the had to quickly split up which massively reduced their fire power and mobility because even though they split into small groups their vehicles are breaking down or getting spotted and destroyed by artillery, airpower and of course drones and teams on the ground.


    I merely said they were taken by surprise to those who are denying they weren't, that is all

    Nobody disputes it was a surprise attack, the issue most of us have is that any force of 12K trained and equipped soldiers could penetrate most borders so a surprise attack with that sort of force that penetrates 10-20 kms into a border but is then stopped is not really a successful incursion when it is stopped an enormous distance short of objectives like the Kursk NPP.

    Defence is made of layers... you know like the three layer defence the west laughed and and then Kievs forces failed to penetrate even the first layer of the defences... but they were front line army defences, not border defences manned by FSB and border guards.

    As I said, I doubt the numbers in the article, but also Russian MoD should come out with the real number.
    As for Ukrainians, they were coming up with some crazy numbers of over 1000 POWs.

    Why?

    The public really does not need to know... especially the western public.

    Like daily losses report, which continues to show losses north of 2k every day for two months already. I can't see how Ukrainian army can sustain these level of losses for such a long period, without completely falling apart.

    You have already explained it... they lie. They lie to themselves and they lie to others...

    How many more of these S 300 systems can Ukraine have, every now and then they destroy some S 300 after two years of war. The number of launchers was probably much greater than officially reported.

    A full battery is 6 or 8 launch vehicles plus radar and other systems, so when on the run and hiding that means one original S-300 battery could be deployed with only one or two launch truck TELs so when a Ukrainian S-300 "battery" gets hit they have 3 to 6 more of them if they have enough radar systems.

    They used to have about 200 systems. Plus Slovakian. Plus some from the US, bought for evaluation back in the 90s.

    Which could be split in to two to three times more than that in operation.

    I can accept that these partially-conscript manned units were green, given that as a cohesive unit they wouldn't have taken part in the SVO prior, and in some cases may have performed poorly - but that's not the same as being overrun,

    They are there to stop illegal immigrants and smugglers, they are a trip alarm that is not supposed to stop any military force... when a military force moves through they couldn't stop them even if they wanted to, they just wouldn't have the weapons and ammo and training and numbers to do so.

    They did their job and no one would expect border patrols to stop a nazi invasion... whether it is mid 1941 or 2024.

    I'm sure Ukrainians know how many they've captured. On the other hand, Russian general population has to know. When you don't provide credible sources, population will go next for what's available and that's usually enemy sources.

    Why do you think the Russian side knows how many Russians the nazis have captured... they are nazis... they can take people off the street and claim they were border guards... when you don't post numbers and the only numbers are from the enemy who lies then the fact is that you simply don't know how many POWs there are... get used to disappointment.

    The number does not matter. Russia will not be negotiating with terrorists.

    "Putin's zero reaction to the events in Kursk region proves that there is no reason not to give us permission to strike the Russian Federation with long-range weapons" - Zelensky

    There is a lot of desperation visible in Kiev.

    Made all the more funny by the fact that Putins reaction is still to come and I suspect it will be tailored to make sure Zelensky and the west don't like it.

    This attack was likely to achieve several goals... first capture the Kursk NPP, second a distraction, to hit the Crimean bridge, and also to stop progress on the the main battlefield as Putin has to withdraw forces from the front line to deal with this incursion, and of course to spread fear and chaos in Russian territory.

    Looks rather like it has failed on all counts, and in fact Russian advances on the front line are accelerating...

    And we will have to wait to see the response...

    Ukraine has crossed Russia's red line after red line, and they just went "grrrr terrorists, bad"

    Actually, when Kiev blew up two parts of the Crimean bridge Russia stepped up their attacks on the Ukrainian electrical grid, which is currently in a very bad way... and winter is coming... things are not looking good for Kiev really... but only if you let the facts get in the way of the story.

    Zelensky like or hate him made a logically correct statement, he was saying he called Russia's bluffs so many times and they did nothing so clearly there is nothing to suggest he cannot do more.

    One of his red lines was Ukraine in HATO and he invaded the Ukraine and has killed half a million Ukrainian men... was that a bluff too?

    And when Iran are flying Su-35s and popping US ships with Onyx missiles you might start to understand no all consequences are obvious or immediate.

    A bit like Kosovo declaring independence leading directly to Georgias attack on South Ossetia and that five day war with Russia.

    So much for unique.

    Putin is weak when you are a moron with no memory or understanding.

    One thing I never took into consideration with my rather distaste of how this war was being treated, was the other BRICS states. The Duran guys pointed out that Russia obtained a lot of pressure from India and China to go easy. There may be way too much truth to that, that I didn't even really think of.

    They will listen to allies but are not obliged to follow their instructions or vice versa. Countries do not tell other countries what they have to do in a normal world.

    The western world is not normal.


    They should have evacuated these people.

    With what? They spent the time collecting up the forces to kill the nazis, wasting time trying to move civilians out of these areas would be impossible... who would do it? The border guards the Ukraines claimed they captured? Pixies? Will the fairies help them? Maybe Gandalf will summon the Eagles?

    The US can only go in quantity now.

    And when the US dollar tanks they wont even be able to afford quantity... the first thing they will have to do is close down 9/10ths of their military bases in other countries...


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    Post  franco Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:36 pm

    Russian MoD reporting 2355 Ukrainian casualties over the past 24 hours including...

    Summary of the Russian Ministry of Defense on the progress of repelling the attempted invasion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine into the territory of the Russian Federation (as of August 20, 2024)

    Units of the North group of forces, with the support of army aviation and artillery fire, thwarted attempts by enemy assault groups in the direction of the settlements of Borki, Korenevo, Kremyanoye, Russian Kanapelka.

    As a result, the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost more than 60 people killed and wounded, two tanks, eight armored combat vehicles and six units of automotive equipment were destroyed.

    Reconnaissance and search operations are continuing to identify and destroy enemy sabotage groups in the forests that tried to penetrate deep into Russian territory.

    Air strikes, artillery fire and the actions of the defending troops hit the concentrations of manpower and equipment of the 22nd, 115th mechanized, 80th and 82nd airborne assault brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the areas of the settlements of Apanasovka, Borki, Viktorovka, Kositsa, Lyubimovka, Plekhovo, Tolstoy Meadow, as well as west of Bogdanovka.

    Tactical air strikes were carried out in the Sumy region on the areas of concentration of personnel and military equipment of the reserves of the 61st mechanized Brigade, 101st, 103rd, 106th and 129th Air Defense brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the areas of the settlements of Alexandria, Belopolye, Volnaya Sloboda, Vorozhba, Loknya, Mogritsa and Khoten.

    During the day, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to 350 military personnel and 25 armored vehicles, including four tanks, an infantry fighting vehicle, two armored personnel carriers, 18 armored combat vehicles, as well as 8 vehicles, two mortars and an electronic warfare station.

    In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 4,130 servicemen, 58 tanks, 27 infantry fighting vehicles, 50 armored personnel carriers, 299 armored combat vehicles, 131 vehicles, 27 artillery pieces, five anti-aircraft missile systems, seven multiple launch rocket launchers, including three HIMARS MLRS and one MLRS, six electronic warfare stations, four units of engineering equipment, including two engineering barrier vehicles and one UR-77 mine clearance unit.

    The operation to destroy the AFU formations continues.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12526068@egNews

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    Post  franco Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:39 pm

    It is obvious No to any sane Rolling Eyes viewer from the West that Russia is suffering pale a severe beating affraid from Ukraine cry

    thumbsup

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Aug 20, 2024 8:18 pm

    Foreigners will be able to obtain a temporary residence permit (residence permit) for three months outside the quota and without having to confirm their knowledge of the Russian language, knowledge of Russian history and legislation, if they do not agree with the ideological course of the authorities of their countries. The relevant decree of President Vladimir Putin has been published on the legal information portal.

    "<...> Those who expressed a desire to move <...> for reasons of non-acceptance of the policy implemented by these states, imposing destructive neoliberal ideological attitudes that contradict traditional Russian spiritual and moral values," the document says.

    The list of such states will be compiled by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
    https://www.rbc.ru/politics/19/08/2024/66c3433d9a794733e2a69ded
    One of the results of SMO, so I'm posting it in this thread.

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    Post  Regular Wed Aug 21, 2024 12:20 am

    Strategic blunder and intelligence failure on Russian side (absolutely moronic given that there were warnings that got ignored)

    Overcommitment (typical of them) on Ukrainian

    Russia is not stopping in previous fronts, Ukrainian gains in Kursk slowed down and don’t look worth holding, giving Putin green light to finally use conscripts maybe to even move them into Ukraine since Rubicon was crossed.

    Ukraine lost AD, artillery and tons of manoeuvre  assets (100+ as per Ghost of Omsk counting)

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    Post  nomadski Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:58 am

    The rate of attrition for Ukrs , along the 1000 km ( approx) frontline per day is 2000 , or 2 killed per km per day ! The rate of attrition for Kursk frontlines of 50 km ( approx ) per day is 350 , or 7 killed per km per day ! So It is a trap .

    Twisted Evil

    BTW , a single barrel shotgun , similar to 40 mm under- Barrel grenade launcher can be manufactured cheaply and issued to troops , to use against drones . They are mostly looking up at the sky , and hidding among bushes ,  instead of fighting and looking forward .

    Rolling Eyes

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    Post  Regular Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:51 am

    It’s not a trap and it’s a big f up by Kursk authorities. Belgorod region learned the lesson and invaders literally lost their head (Dracula approves) trying to pull any of in Belgorod.

    Manned fortifications, local defence force, shelters, dragons teeth, mines. No mines, scarcely manned checkpoints, soft bellies, no drone/counter drone operators and list goes on. Who ever was responsible for Kursk should be thrown into tar and feathered. If it was a trap, it was for authorities who soon will (some are) be under investigation. Rumours have it, there was some bureaucratic hurdles and bullshit involved when it came to fortifying region as well, but we will see.

    About casualties, I wouldn’t trust overall MOD numbers as it’s way too much, equipment doesn’t check out. RuMOD also lied terribly during first days of Kursk and you can see how happy was Putin during briefing. Better be conservative and be proven wrong than hyperbolic;

    So most of the mass casualty events were ambushes (that we can count the bodies, POWs and equipment ) and remote strikes, they are nowhere near to this level so far. None the less, Ukrainians are in fact bleeding hard, even lost heavy movers… and I am not sure how long they can feed their incursions. When will they realise it’s pointless? They already crying that bad russia doesn’t even care. I am afraid they will try to pull something even more vile during times of desperation.

    Also, individual solution for FPV drones exist, it is also kinetic form and instead of grenade launcher (which was already used, but not practical at all due to GP limitations, no follow up shots and hard aiming)
    Not sure about another heavy hitter.
    They need something that is similar to service rifle, easy, abundant, so Vepr and Saiga are best options.

    Russian soldiers got delivered Vepr-12K of newest modification. Good shooter can hit drones from 100 meters away and can followup (10 shells in the mag) and according to guys like Indus, there are people with 15-20 shotdowns as it’s pretty effective.  Impressive length of this shotguns barrel. There were also test available online of Russians using various methods trying to shoot drones and automatic shotgun was the most efficient as its almost guaranteed kill with second shot. There is literally not much more to invent here. Autonomic antidrone technology used on tanks, well that would win you some contracts on any side of this conflict, haha

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60 - Page 8 Img_0510

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    Post  nomadski Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:44 am




    Trap may be accidentally made . This one is a mental trap , a Custer's last stand . An irreversible decision !  Two legs good , four legs better ! Two eyes good , four eyes better ! Ten shotgun shells guided by twenty eyes better than ten shotgun shells guided by two eyes . About ten times better ! Mass produced , should be cheap , simple tube .






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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:55 am

    ALAMO wrote:Russian official data claim that they don't know the fate of about 2000 civilians.
    If we will combine that with the materials revealed on ukro body cams, we can seriously consider a mass hostage taking.

    In which case applying Israel style response would be quite in order



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    Post  Regular Wed Aug 21, 2024 5:08 am

    nomadski wrote:


    Trap may be accidentally made . This one is a mental trap , a Custer's last stand . An irreversible decision !  Two legs good , four legs better ! Two eyes good , four eyes better ! Ten shotgun shells guided by twenty eyes better than ten shotgun shells guided by two eyes . About ten times better ! Mass produced , should be cheap , simple tube .







    The trap is Ukrainian mindset to cling to what is lost or has no net positive for war effort. Remember Krinky.

    Yes, many barrels shooting at one target is much more efficient, but soldiers are already pushing weight limits. I liked the idea of GP having shotgun shell, but soldiers on the ground spit at this idea after trying.

    So far, it's small fire teams with one designated man with a Vepr. When asked what could be improved in their fight against the drones, people like Indus and frontier fighters say that they would like to have effective EW for vehicles. Neither side has cracked jammers to be 100% effective.

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