The Situation in the Ukraine. #9

The picture is fake according to multiple sources, as it has many critical errors that are easy to spot.

Mike E wrote:The picture is fake according to multiple sources, as it has many critical errors that are easy to spot.

Question is who posted this picture first (who faked it)?

Another question is, will this be used as "evidence" to portray that Russia is again to blame for MH17 despite all facts and evidences are pointing towards US?

To the knee-jerk "it's a fake" crew: where the f*ck would the faker download the satellite image of the ground to superimpose the aircraft?
The resolution of the background image is an order of magnitude higher than the crap America was putting out "proving" squat about
Russian artillery in and out of Ukraine on the eastern border. You think they paid several grand to play a prank?

Werewolf wrote:

Mike E wrote:The picture is fake according to multiple sources, as it has many critical errors that are easy to spot.

Question is who posted this picture first (who faked it)?

Another question is, will this be used as "evidence" to portray that Russia is again to blame for MH17 despite all facts and evidences are pointing towards US?

No clue... Supposedly the original source is unknown. 

Probably, knowing the West....

kvs wrote:To the knee-jerk "it's a fake" crew: where the f*ck would the faker download the satellite image of the ground to superimpose the aircraft?
The resolution of the background image is an order of magnitude higher than the crap America was putting out "proving" squat about
Russian artillery in and out of Ukraine on the eastern border.  You think they paid several grand to play a prank?

IMHO, it is just as fake as the NATO pictures you cite. The aircraft is of the wrong type (it appears to be a 767 not 777), the logo is not in the proper location, and the engagement location of the Flanker is unusual, or so I've heard.

AFAIK they were found stuck in the seat

Does it remind You of?


Not to talk about fake trail, perfect timing of picture, wrong airliner and etc in the sat pic.
Those who believe it are really gullible.
Stupid Russian propaganda like the one about Lewthwaite being killed in Ukraine by a sniper But I bet You guys believed it too like a gospel.

Vann7 wrote:
Is really sinckening to watch again and again trolls like you ,like the ones you find in MP forums ,that believe they know everything and call Russian media "propaganda".

Barking to the wrong tree, pidar. Can't I fucking question or ask questions? Go fuck Yourself with Your mp.net I'm not there as it's more or less chatboard.
One day you agree that it was SU-25 who took it down, next day it's Ukrainian BUK, now it's SU-27 (Russian "experts" called it Mig-29 in 1kanal video)

etaepsilonk wrote:

medo wrote:It is not a tracer of gun round. If it is a gun fire, there would be more rounds tracers in the air and a fire light at gun barrel. This is most probably air to air missile.

It doesn't remotely look like AAM. Where's the smoke trail, for example?

Errr.. yes, it looks EXACTLY like a missile...  Smoke trail?  Try watching actual AAM launch footage sometime...

Having said that however, I'm guessing its a fake.

A single square hole vs various circular ones.  That doesn't quite work as evidence.  There needs to be multiple variations of the same hole.  As well, the square metal piece found does not quite look like the one shown for the BUK, as the buk, when warhead explodes, wont have perfect squares flying in all directions.  Could be the actual case it was, but not conclusive.

That Su-27 is faker than pretty much anything.  A Su-27 would light up on radar quicker than probably a Su-25 due to its size.  No mention of Ukrainian or any other Su-27 in the vercinity. No mention of Su-27 by Russian military which would have seen that Su-27 fairly easily.

sepheronx wrote:A single square hole vs various circular ones.  That doesn't quite work as evidence.  There needs to be multiple variations of the same hole.  As well, the square metal piece found does not quite look like the one shown for the BUK, as the buk, when warhead explodes, wont have perfect squares flying in all directions.  Could be the actual case it was, but not conclusive.

That Su-27 is faker than pretty much anything.  A Su-27 would light up on radar quicker than probably a Su-25 due to its size.  No mention of Ukrainian or any other Su-27 in the vercinity.  No mention of Su-27 by Russian military which would have seen that Su-27 fairly easily.

Yep... Regular, we are talking about a couple square holes versus dozens of circular ones. Claiming that we are fools for are beliefs (which are more realistic than yours) is &%#$.

Agreed.

Regular wrote:

Vann7 wrote:
Is really sinckening to watch again and again trolls like you ,like the ones you find in MP forums ,that believe they know everything and call Russian media "propaganda".

Barking to the wrong tree, pidar. Can't I fucking question or ask questions? Go fuck Yourself with Your mp.net I'm not there as it's more or less chatboard.
One day you agree that it was SU-25 who took it down, next day it's Ukrainian BUK, now it's SU-27 (Russian "experts" called it Mig-29 in 1kanal video)

You always pick any bullshit propaganda pictures from internet without providing any source of where the information came and call it a fact.. whenever is against Russia government story..  but any information or pictures that support Russia story is automatically rejected by you.. thats what is annoying.. your pathetic double standards. I even managed to debunk one of your so called supported "Evidence" that Russian tanks were in Ukraine ,clearly showed it was a photoshop manipulation.



Is the source is not know then we cannot say for certain if is real or not... but i will trust far more in photographic evidence released to the world by the Russian Government , than from anyone in the west. That we know how the so called "Freedom nations of Europe" have been supporting for months the bombing of civilians ,women and children day and night of kiev, and not a single time have condemned kiev for that or any ultimatum ,no sanctions. The Fact that no Nation in the west have released their real evidence (satellite information) that the Rebels shoot down the plane and Russia is the only one that have shown their evidence that kiev did it .. is very telling...  All that the west have against the Rebels is a photo of a buk missile being transported in Ukraine in a zone controlled by kiev.  For anyone with half a brain is clear Kiev did it.. because of all the information available. Direct irrefutable evidence of the crime against the malasyan plane doesn't exist.. but facts here and there when you connect everything clearly shows Kiev is the one trying to sabotage the investigation while the Rebels fully allows access to the Accident. For anyone with a brain that should be more than suspicious.

Anyone can do this.. post random internet photos.. and claim is "Evidence"



See?  just using google images you can get almost anything.  Does that proof anything? no.. it doesn't proof
anything at all.. not even proof that is related to the topic in discussion. If we don't know the source we can't say anything.. whether is fake or not.. or at least investigate the possibility. In this case i know is fake ,was taken from Pan Am flight 103 investigation.

We need the source of the information to have a better judgement of it, its reputation and credibility is important...
If the previous satelite photos were released officially by Russia Government at G-20 ,as some rumored.. If.. thats the case , i will consider it real .. and not Russian propaganda as other here automatically label it just for being Russian government.  But so far i don't need any more evidence of who did it.. Its clear Kiev did.. They have all the motives in the world to do it.. Thats the very first question on any investigation on any crime ,who could had the motives to commit this crime? and why? and Russia have zero to gain for the malasyan plane incident. Neither the Rebels have anything to gain. Kiev is the only one who could benefit for such crime . Because kiev is the only one that control the civilian air traffic ,in the air space.. they are fully responsible for the security of any plane they allow to fly over its airspace. Rebels long time ago declared a no fly zone over their controlled zones and Kiev totally ,intentionally allowed a civilian plane to fly over a zone they were losing a planes in the dozens...say and night..

Now some names are showing up.. about the source of this photo...It was not released by Joe ,who no one knows.
,and who live in moms basement .. but apparently was released by the vice president of the Russian Union of Engineers,we have a starting place for an investigation.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/759835



I will have a big laugh if later the photo is confirmed to be aunthentic from their satellites by a foreign nation from Europe..

Mike E wrote:

Regular wrote:Wow so quick to buy any idiotic image to fit Your agenda. Common people, don't be like Ukrainians. It's most likely a troll who send it to 1kanal and that's it

Don't be so quick to dismiss it... Obviously, a single image is worth crap, but that doesn't guarantee that this is a fake. 

 I' going to parade this around the internet, and prove that those who say it is fake (because it was released by Russia) are worthless hypocrites.

 


Correct.
thats exactly what i say. to dismiss evidence just because comes from Russia is completely retarded . Then when cannot evidence from any nation in the world.. because Europe is a colony of USA and is highly controlled by them..
and the white house installed Poroshenko in power.. so they will never support a real investigation that could point
fingers to kiev for the downing of the M-17 plane.  Not a single time in months Europe have condemned kiev for the killing of civilians... they told nothing about the odessa massacre ,100 people burned alive and all they told was being "concerned". then you have the discovery of mass graves of civilians with hands tied and no complains either,
The army passing with their armor over civilians and no complain. Red Cross workers killed by Ukraine and no complains..Journalist killed by kiev army and no complains.. Regular should just ask himself for what reason OSCE keep silence about the bombing of civilians women and children.. why they don't denounce kiev directly for war crimes? and demand they to stop in public?

And instead calls for "both sides" to restrain from violence and protect civilians..?   I can't believe people be so blind to not see whats going on in Ukraine after months, and how the west looks to the sides and allows it.  If the west allows Kiev to get away with their crimes every day ,day after day..again and again.. for months..to this day ..,with their intentionally bombing on civilian places.. Then why can he believe a real investigation can come from the malasyan plane if the investigators all come from the nations politically supporting the kiev crimes. Simple sanctions on Ukraine by the European Union and or threatening them with total isolation North korea style , if they do not stop their war.. could end the violence in no time and the war.. because Ukraine cannot survive as a nation if Europe totally blockade them.

But what we see from Europe and US its handlers ,is totally the opposite of what they should be doing.. specially from Rogue nations like Lithuane and Poland that are asking for more sanctions on Russia still today ,which is a clear support for kiev war crimes in eastern ukraine. Since they point fingers at Russia for the problems of violence.. when is the nazis they support the ones that bombs cities with civilian every day fueling the violence.

It is crazy that people even for a second thought it was real...
( amd then i am talking about the sukhoi )

By the way, Amely Rose's website is at http://thebizarrebirdcage.blogspot.com.au/.

Looking at the discussion of the "fake" satellite photo at MP.net I see lots of even Russia "stronk" people are clueless. The fact
that both the aircraft and the fields beneath them are in focus confirms that the image is taken from a much higher altitude and
not "right above" the aircraft.

The issue I have with the image is that the fields do not look like they are in Ukraine. Ukraine was collectivized and the old style, small
farm fields were merged into very large ones. All of the original wind break trees and fences would have been removed decades ago.
I highly doubt the Ukrainians have managed to recreate such a historical looking patchwork of fields after 1991.

I don't get the discussion.

Why are you discussing something that is completley irrelevant to the outcome because we already have all evidences we need to know who did it and for what reason.

Werewolf wrote:I don't get the discussion.

Why are you discussing something that is completley irrelevant to the outcome because we already have all evidences we need to know who did it and for what reason.

I agree.

I have pointed out a number of times on this thread that the guilty parties in the destruction of MH17 are the parties that ordered the change in the route of the airliner from the route that it had been using on the days before the day it was destroyed.

Many people seem to think that the route change happened after the airliner entered the Ukrainian airspace. That is not true.

At some stage after the airliner had entered the Ukrainian airspace, in response to something, the airliner performed additional maneuvering, away from the changed route that it had undertaken. However, this is not the same thing as the change in the route planing. Maneuvering away and deviation from a route are different from using a different route. It was the new illegal route that took the airliner into the Novorussian territory, i.e. the war zone.

Notice that I have always used the term "destroyed" and not "shot down". The reason is that the mechanism of destruction of the airliner has not been disclosed.

Interview with Henry Kissinger: 'Do We Achieve World Order Through Chaos or Insight?'

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-henry-kissinger-on-state-of-global-politics-a-1002073-druck.html

 SPIEGEL: So let's talk about a concrete example: How should the West react to the Russian annexation of Crimea? Do you fear this might mean that borders in the future are no longer incontrovertible?

Kissinger: Crimea is a symptom, not a cause. Furthermore, Crimea is a special case. Ukraine was part of Russia for a long time. You can't accept the principle that any country can just change the borders and take a province of another country. But if the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side. The annexation of Crimea was not a move toward global conquest. It was not Hitler moving into Czechoslovakia.

SPIEGEL: What was it then?

Kissinger: One has to ask one's self this question: Putin spent tens of billions of dollars on the Winter Olympics in Sochi. The theme of the Olympics was that Russia is a progressive state tied to the West through its culture and, therefore, it presumably wants to be part of it. So it doesn't make any sense that a week after the close of the Olympics, Putin would take Crimea and start a war over Ukraine. So one has to ask one's self why did it happen?

SPIEGEL: What you're saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?

Kissinger: Yes, I am saying that. Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine's economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia. This does not mean the Russian response was appropriate.

SPIEGEL: It seems you have a lot of understanding for Putin. But isn't he doing exactly what you are warning of -- creating chaos in eastern Ukraine and threatening sovereignty?

Kissinger: Certainly. But Ukraine has always had a special significance for Russia. It was a mistake not to realize that.

SPIEGEL: Relations between the West and Russia are tenser now than they have been in decades. Should we be concerned about the prospects of a new Cold War?

Kissinger: There clearly is this danger, and we must not ignore it. I think a resumption of the Cold War would be a historic tragedy. If a conflict is avoidable, on a basis reflecting morality and security, one should try to avoid it.

SPIEGEL: But didn't the annexation of Crimea by Russia force the EU and US to react by imposing sanctions?

Kissinger: One, the West could not accept the annexation; some countermeasures were necessary. But nobody in the West has offered a concrete program to restore Crimea. Nobody is willing to fight over eastern Ukraine. That's a fact of life. So one could say we don't have to accept it, and we do not treat Crimea as a Russian territory under international law -- just as we continued to treat the Baltic states as independent throughout Soviet rule.

SPIEGEL: Would it be better to stop sanctions even without any concessions from the Russians?

Kissinger: No. But I do have a number of problems with the sanctions. When we talk about a global economy and then use sanctions within the global economy, then the temptation will be that big countries thinking of their future will try to protect themselves against potential dangers, and as they do, they will create a mercantilist global economy. And I have a particular problem with this idea of personal sanctions. And I'll tell you why. We publish a list of people who are sanctioned. So then, when the time comes to lift the sanctions, what are we going to say? "The following four people are now free of sanctions, and the other four are not." Why those four? I think one should always, when one starts something, think what one wants to achieve and how it should end. How does it end?

SPIEGEL: Doesn't that also apply to Putin, who has maneuvered himself into a corner? Does he act out of weakness or out of strength?

Kissinger: I think out of strategic weakness masked as tactical strength.

SPIEGEL: What does that mean for any interaction with him?

Kissinger: We have to remember that Russia is an important part of the international system, and therefore useful in solving all sorts of other crises, for example in the agreement on nuclear proliferation with Iran or over Syria. This has to have preference over a tactical escalation in a specific case. On the one hand it is important that Ukraine remain an independent state, and it should have the right to economic and commercial associations of its choice. But I don't think it's a law of nature that every state must have the right to be an ally in the frame work of NATO. You and I know that NATO will never vote unanimously for the entry of Ukraine.

SPIEGEL: But we cannot tell the Ukrainians that they are not free to decide their own future.

Kissinger: Why not?

Vann7(Ванюча) turn Your brain on for a moment. Russian aviation forums dismissed those pictures in minutes and they are not pro Ukr.
Go and read Anatoliy Shariy a famous journalist who debunk s Ukrainian lies.. I know only way will change Your mind when other outlandish version pops up, you were the one believing it was Su-25 who shot it down.
But believe what You want. I believe it was a lousy troll from USA used to discredit Russian media even against it's viewers.

My opinion is that it was BUK. I've seen pictures of square entry holes in the derby and then older BUK warheads do have square fragments. One supposedly stuck was found in the seat. Who shot the jet I don't know. If seps did it then they didn't know it was passenger jet as they don't have radar installations, if Ukraine shot it down they clearly knew who was flying. Or maybe they were shooting blind too as there were Ukrainian reports of Russian jets shooting down their planes in Ukraine territory.
What is more important why there are no flight control records published. Who planed this rout should face criminal justice no matter who shot it down. All this cover up is nonsense and only tosses the shadow.

Austin wrote: Interview with Henry Kissinger: 'Do We Achieve World Order Through Chaos or Insight?'

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-henry-kissinger-on-state-of-global-politics-a-1002073-druck.html

 SPIEGEL: So let's talk about a concrete example: How should the West react to the Russian annexation of Crimea? Do you fear this might mean that borders in the future are no longer incontrovertible?

Kissinger: Crimea is a symptom, not a cause. Furthermore, Crimea is a special case. Ukraine was part of Russia for a long time. You can't accept the principle that any country can just change the borders and take a province of another country. But if the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side. The annexation of Crimea was not a move toward global conquest. It was not Hitler moving into Czechoslovakia.

SPIEGEL: What was it then?

Kissinger: One has to ask one's self this question: Putin spent tens of billions of dollars on the Winter Olympics in Sochi. The theme of the Olympics was that Russia is a progressive state tied to the West through its culture and, therefore, it presumably wants to be part of it. So it doesn't make any sense that a week after the close of the Olympics, Putin would take Crimea and start a war over Ukraine. So one has to ask one's self why did it happen?

SPIEGEL: What you're saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?

Kissinger: Yes, I am saying that. Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine's economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia. This does not mean the Russian response was appropriate.

SPIEGEL: It seems you have a lot of understanding for Putin. But isn't he doing exactly what you are warning of -- creating chaos in eastern Ukraine and threatening sovereignty?

Kissinger: Certainly. But Ukraine has always had a special significance for Russia. It was a mistake not to realize that.

SPIEGEL: Relations between the West and Russia are tenser now than they have been in decades. Should we be concerned about the prospects of a new Cold War?

Kissinger: There clearly is this danger, and we must not ignore it. I think a resumption of the Cold War would be a historic tragedy. If a conflict is avoidable, on a basis reflecting morality and security, one should try to avoid it.

SPIEGEL: But didn't the annexation of Crimea by Russia force the EU and US to react by imposing sanctions?

Kissinger: One, the West could not accept the annexation; some countermeasures were necessary. But nobody in the West has offered a concrete program to restore Crimea. Nobody is willing to fight over eastern Ukraine. That's a fact of life. So one could say we don't have to accept it, and we do not treat Crimea as a Russian territory under international law -- just as we continued to treat the Baltic states as independent throughout Soviet rule.

SPIEGEL: Would it be better to stop sanctions even without any concessions from the Russians?

Kissinger: No. But I do have a number of problems with the sanctions. When we talk about a global economy and then use sanctions within the global economy, then the temptation will be that big countries thinking of their future will try to protect themselves against potential dangers, and as they do, they will create a mercantilist global economy. And I have a particular problem with this idea of personal sanctions. And I'll tell you why. We publish a list of people who are sanctioned. So then, when the time comes to lift the sanctions, what are we going to say? "The following four people are now free of sanctions, and the other four are not." Why those four? I think one should always, when one starts something, think what one wants to achieve and how it should end. How does it end?

SPIEGEL: Doesn't that also apply to Putin, who has maneuvered himself into a corner? Does he act out of weakness or out of strength?

Kissinger: I think out of strategic weakness masked as tactical strength.

SPIEGEL: What does that mean for any interaction with him?

Kissinger: We have to remember that Russia is an important part of the international system, and therefore useful in solving all sorts of other crises, for example in the agreement on nuclear proliferation with Iran or over Syria. This has to have preference over a tactical escalation in a specific case. On the one hand it is important that Ukraine remain an independent state, and it should have the right to economic and commercial associations of its choice. But I don't think it's a law of nature that every state must have the right to be an ally in the frame work of NATO. You and I know that NATO will never vote unanimously for the entry of Ukraine.

SPIEGEL: But we cannot tell the Ukrainians that they are not free to decide their own future.

Kissinger: Why not?

The interviewer really steers the interview into the desired direction. Strategic weakness is becoming strategic strength with ever deal russia makes. The answer on the last question is of devious arrogance since they, the US, made this mess for ukraine.

http://novorossia.su/ru/node/9537

Общие потери в украинских войсках в Новороссии (Донбасс, Луганск, Харьков, Одесса и др.) с 3 апреля — по настоящее время. С фронта не вернулись около – 20 904 военнослужащих, в т.ч. членов военных и военизированных подразделений украинских силовиков.

Из них — около 3 282 боевиков «Правого сектора», в основном вошедших в состав Национальной гвардии, а также 30 наемников из специальных батальонов олигарха Игоря Коломойского «Днепр» и «Азов», «Айдар». По некоторым данным трупы вывозились в Днепропетровск и уничтожались в местном крематории, или закапывались на месте расстрела и числятся как без вести пропавшие.

— около 11 590 военнослужащих Украинской армии (в основном из 25 десантной Днепропетровской бригады и 95 аэромобильной Житомирской бригады, 24-й моторизованной бригады из Львовской области, 79 аэромобильной бригады, 51 механизированной бригады, 24-я механизированной бригады из Яворова, 72-я отдельной мехбригады из Белой Церкви, Кременчугской бригады ГУР МО и других подразделений украинской армии, в основном из мест дислокаций с Западной Украины),

— около 4 192 сотрудников МВД, из числа «нацгвардии»;

— около 379 сотрудников СБУ Украины;

— 243 человек Госпогранслужбы Украины;

— 88 сотрудников ЦРУ, ФБР, спецназ РУМО США;

иностранных наемников:

— 630 человек из числа польской ЧВК «ASBS Othago», американских ЧВК «Асаdemi» и «Greystone Limited», ЧВК из Канады, Германии, Великобритании, Литвы, Эстонии, Италии, Швеции, Турция, Чехия, Финляндии, африканских и арабских и других стран.

— другие категории вооруженных формирований Украины — 1779 чел.

Ukrainian military lost in combat in Novorussia 20904 soldiers. From them 11590 from Ukrainian army, 3282 Pravy Sector, 4192 Naciguard and MVD, 379 SBU, 243 Border guard, 88 CIA and US special forces, 630 foreign mercenaries, 1779 other Ukrainian formations. Very big losses for half a year of fightings against small and weak opponent.

medo wrote:http://novorossia.su/ru/node/9537

Общие потери в украинских войсках в Новороссии (Донбасс, Луганск, Харьков, Одесса и др.) с 3 апреля — по настоящее время. С фронта не вернулись около – 20 904 военнослужащих, в т.ч. членов военных и военизированных подразделений украинских силовиков.

Из них — около 3 282 боевиков «Правого сектора», в основном вошедших в состав Национальной гвардии, а также 30 наемников из специальных батальонов олигарха Игоря Коломойского «Днепр» и «Азов», «Айдар». По некоторым данным трупы вывозились в Днепропетровск и уничтожались в местном крематории, или закапывались на месте расстрела и числятся как без вести пропавшие.

— около 11 590 военнослужащих Украинской армии (в основном из 25 десантной Днепропетровской бригады и 95 аэромобильной Житомирской бригады, 24-й моторизованной бригады из Львовской области, 79 аэромобильной бригады, 51 механизированной бригады, 24-я механизированной бригады из Яворова, 72-я отдельной мехбригады из Белой Церкви, Кременчугской бригады ГУР МО и других подразделений украинской армии, в основном из мест дислокаций с Западной Украины),

— около 4 192 сотрудников МВД, из числа «нацгвардии»;

— около 379 сотрудников СБУ Украины;

— 243 человек Госпогранслужбы Украины;

— 88 сотрудников ЦРУ, ФБР, спецназ РУМО США;

иностранных наемников:

— 630 человек из числа польской ЧВК «ASBS Othago», американских ЧВК «Асаdemi» и «Greystone Limited», ЧВК из Канады, Германии, Великобритании, Литвы, Эстонии, Италии, Швеции, Турция, Чехия, Финляндии, африканских и арабских и других стран.

— другие категории вооруженных формирований Украины — 1779 чел.

Ukrainian military lost in combat in Novorussia 20904 soldiers. From them 11590 from Ukrainian army, 3282 Pravy Sector, 4192 Naciguard and MVD, 379 SBU, 243 Border guard, 88 CIA and US special forces, 630 foreign mercenaries, 1779 other Ukrainian formations. Very big losses for half a year of fightings against small and weak opponent.

Biggest losses ever in any war in six months after ww2.