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79 posters
Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Hole- Posts : 11122
Points : 11100
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
- Post n°601
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
- Post n°602
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
The containers in that pic are 20 foot.Look at size or Ka-27 vs container. It looms both are 40 food ones
This is with the 40 foot Kalibr container (& 20 foot control container)
A while back I read something dismissing 20386 along the lines 'if it can only take 1* 40 foot Kalibr container & its at the expense of the Ka-27, you might as well just strap a 40 foot container to the flight deck of a 20380' and its fairly hard not to agree IMO.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
- Post n°603
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
hoom wrote:.......
A while back I read something dismissing 20386 along the lines 'if it can only take 1* 40 foot Kalibr container & its at the expense of the Ka-27, you might as well just strap a 40 foot container to the flight deck of a 20380' and its fairly hard not to agree IMO.
People need to accept the fact that ships below certain size and pricetag can't do everything
This is one of those ships
Everyone has complaints but nobody is looking at intended purpose of those ships
Also, putting container on deck of 20380 is excellent way to capsize it
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
- Post n°604
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Ka-27 weighs how much? (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)
20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
GarryB- Posts : 40548
Points : 41050
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°605
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
They could always put Ka-226s on board.... there would be plenty of space for a few pods and two Ka-226s... with their main rotors folded they are rather small... and with two you could have combinations.... one helo with a radar and a pod with a dipping sonar and another helo with anti sub torpedoes and depth charges to attack any sub detected...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
- Post n°606
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)
20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
Old radars, old AA missiles, old sonar, no anti-ship missiles in UKSK and glows on radar like a Christmas tree
Time marches on...
Hole- Posts : 11122
Points : 11100
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
- Post n°607
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Which class do you mean?
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3917
Points : 3895
Join date : 2016-04-08
- Post n°608
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)
20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
KA-27's weigh about 7 tons.
Hole- Posts : 11122
Points : 11100
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
- Post n°609
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.
kumbor- Posts : 313
Points : 305
Join date : 2017-06-09
- Post n°610
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
SeigSoloyvov wrote:hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)
20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
KA-27's weigh about 7 tons.
11356 in comparison to 20386 is almost 50% bigger!
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6171
Points : 6191
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°611
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
PapaDragon wrote:
People need to accept the fact that ships below certain size and pricetag can't do everything
This is one of those ships
Everyone has complaints but nobody is looking at intended purpose of those ships
OK thsi is universal ship so what kind roles can she perform?
you dont need really put any container there to capsize herAlso, putting container on deck of 20380 is excellent way to capsize it
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
- Post n°612
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Hole wrote:Which class do you mean?
11356
They are okay and ones that are under construction should not be sold to India, instead they should wait until engines are sorted out, complete them and send them in service
But for new orders they should focus strictly on new models (whichever is on roster) and 11356 is not new
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
- Post n°613
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Exactly and the heaviest Kalibr is 2300kg -> a container with 4 is about the same weight -> no stability issue from swapping one for the other.MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.
Point is for a large displacement & cost increase vs 20380 the containerised Kalibr of 20386 comes at the heavy cost of losing the helicopter to carry them which is replicatable in 20380 without the extra cost.
20386 is said to be 3400ton full load vs 3800ton for 11356, they're very much comparable in size so it shouldn't be a huge ask to have similar capability in a newer ship with smaller SAMs.11356 in comparison to 20386 is almost 50% bigger!
Old radar, new processors & combat system, new SAMs, can't comment on the sonar, at least anti-ship Kalibr (there are both the subsonic long range & supersonic sizzler versions), its not proven that it can't fire Onyx since the Indian ones fire Brahmos & I don't believe its horrendously un-stealthy or that stealth is especially applicable to surface ships.Old radars, old AA missiles, old sonar, no anti-ship missiles in UKSK and glows on radar like a Christmas tree
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3917
Points : 3895
Join date : 2016-04-08
- Post n°614
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
Hole wrote:MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.
they do not weigh that low, maybe the police and utility versions but the military ones weigh roughly the weight I said.
Which is you go by that weight system is like 14k-15k lbs.
GarryB- Posts : 40548
Points : 41050
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°615
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
MTOW of the Ka-27 in the SAR role is indeed 11 tons, but the Ka-28 anti sub model is 12 tons MTOW, while the AEW radar Ka-31 now called Ka-35 is MTOW of 12.5 tons...
Note the anti sub Ka-28 has a payload capacity of 800kgs... which is normally a torpedo or depth charges...
Note the anti sub Ka-28 has a payload capacity of 800kgs... which is normally a torpedo or depth charges...
Hole- Posts : 11122
Points : 11100
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
- Post n°616
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
kumbor- Posts : 313
Points : 305
Join date : 2017-06-09
- Post n°617
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
George1- Posts : 18523
Points : 19028
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
- Post n°618
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
This is Gromkiy from Amur Shipyard
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
Points : 430
Join date : 2018-03-02
- Post n°619
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
https://www.cna.org/CNA_files/PDF/IOP-2018-U-018268-Final.pdf wrote:It has been repeatedly pointed out that the shipbuilding programs are missing a small ship, which could be described as a “brown-water corvette,” focused primarily on ASW in the coastal zone.
Fresh analysis from CNA. Relevant in the context of the topic about poor Russian ASW capabilities. Opinions? Steregushchy and derivatives seem quite good with 2x4 Paket NK torpedo tubes and Ka-27. On the other hand, 3 tonn RBU-6000 submarine rocket launcher doesn't seem too problematic to mount on a 3000 tonn Derzky corvette. Seems that they lack a modernised version.
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
- Post n°620
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
yep, first trip out on trials for 2nd Pacific fleet 20380.This is Gromkiy from Amur Shipyard
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6171
Points : 6191
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°621
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
verkhoturye51 wrote:https://www.cna.org/CNA_files/PDF/IOP-2018-U-018268-Final.pdf wrote:It has been repeatedly pointed out that the shipbuilding programs are missing a small ship, which could be described as a “brown-water corvette,” focused primarily on ASW in the coastal zone.
Fresh analysis from CNA. Relevant in the context of the topic about poor Russian ASW capabilities. Opinions? Steregushchy and derivatives seem quite good with 2x4 Paket NK torpedo tubes and Ka-27. On the other hand, 3 tonn RBU-6000 submarine rocket launcher doesn't seem too problematic to mount on a 3000 tonn Derzky corvette. Seems that they lack a modernised version.
"generously funded by Carnegie Corporation, New York" , can you imagine US expert taking grants from Russian MoD? me neither.
1) 5 large ASW ships 1155 class will be modernized by 2022 AFAIK
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/545992
2) RBU-6000 is modernized ammo already , 500 new rounds were ordered by MoD
https://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9C%D0%B2%D0%BC%D1%8114/
IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.
3) I still hope 22160 can be used as decent ASW corvette, Pantsir, Paket + helo. 2x4 Kalibrs (i.e. rocket torpedos)
George1- Posts : 18523
Points : 19028
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
- Post n°622
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
It is planned that by the end of this year the corvette "Gromkiy" will be part of the Pacific Fleet.
Currently, at the Αmur plant, under the state contract of June 4, 2015, the construction of the next two for this plant corvettes of project 20380 - “Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (serial number 2103, laid down on July 22, 2015) and “Rezkiy” (serial number 2104, founded July 1, 2016).
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3396330.html
Currently, at the Αmur plant, under the state contract of June 4, 2015, the construction of the next two for this plant corvettes of project 20380 - “Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (serial number 2103, laid down on July 22, 2015) and “Rezkiy” (serial number 2104, founded July 1, 2016).
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3396330.html
GarryB- Posts : 40548
Points : 41050
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°623
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.
It also had a secondary anti diver mission, which I guess could translate into an anti UUV capability too...
kumbor- Posts : 313
Points : 305
Join date : 2017-06-09
- Post n°624
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
GarryB wrote:IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.
It also had a secondary anti diver mission, which I guess could translate into an anti UUV capability too...
For anti diver and anti ROV UUV there are light 57mm multi barrel mortars. There is also "Damba" RBU bomb for RBU-6000 for same purpose. For AS there is a similar bomb with small sonar. As all western littoral subs are single hulled, it proves effective, at least to make submarine surface.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6171
Points : 6191
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°625
Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette
kumbor wrote:
For anti diver and anti ROV UUV there are light 57mm multi barrel mortars. There is also "Damba" RBU bomb for RBU-6000 for same purpose. For AS there is a similar bomb with small sonar. As all western littoral subs are single hulled, it proves effective, at least to make submarine surface.
its not about depth but range against subs. Unlikely to meet new sub in range less then 4km...