Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

Russia Suspends Visa-Free Regime With Turkey - Lavrov

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030864471/visa-free-regime-turkey.html

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that Moscow suspends the visa-free regime with Turkey starting January 1, 2016.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

Turkish Pilots Informed Air Force Commander Before Downing Russian Su-24

On Tuesday, a Russian Su-24 jet crashed in Syria. Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the plane was downed by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet over Syrian territory, falling 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) from the Turkish border.

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151127/1030853506/turkish-pilots-su-24.html

ANKARA (Sputnik) — Pilots of a Turkish F-16 jet informed the Commander in Chief of the Turkish Air Force, Abidin Unal, and Chief of Staff of the Air Force Mehmet Sanver before shooting down the Russian Su-24 jet on Tuesday, local media reported Friday, citing a source.

"Within five minutes, Turkish Air Force Commander Abidin Unal and Air Force Chief of Staff Mehmet Sanver, were briefed. When the pilots did not receive a command to cancel the procedure [to attack the aircraft, according to Turkish regulations to respond to a threat], successfully implemented it," the newspaper quoted an unnamed source as saying.

According to the source of the publication, the pilots of the Su-24 bomber received warnings about approaching the Turkish border from the Turkish side via a radio channel proposed by the Russian side on October 15 after an air incident in which a Russian military aircraft violated Turkish air space.

Unverified audio recordings circulating online contain barely audible voices identifying themselves as the Turkish Air Force and calling to "change your heading south immediately." The address in the audio does not mention threats to fire a missile.

On Thursday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that the audio recording of radio exchanges between the Turkish pilots with warnings to the Russian Su-24 aircraft pilots was a fake.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

Anyone knows what Russian Liberals.. like Kudrin and others
say about the whole Syria thing? and about Turkey conflict with Russia?

just curious..in which side they are now..and what they say Russia needs to
do to solve Turkey ,Syria and Ukraine.

Kudrin is not the worst of the liberals in Russia. People like Alexeyeva and Navalny are far worse.

Watched Felgenheur giving an interview to a Russian-language Israeli internet TV channel last night; I think the views of Russian liberals are pretty clear on this

Hollande's Meeting With Putin 'Deals US Geopolitics a Major Blow'

Following a meeting with Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande has proved himself to be an independent leader, who is willing to disregard US interests, defense expert Konstantin Sivkov told Sputnik.

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030859068/putin-hollande-anti-isis-cooperation-us.html

"For the first time in a long time a politician controlled by the US made a stand against … American geopolitics," Sivkov noted. "Hollande is acting tough and disregarding US interests in the process. By promoting ties with Russia, the French president is 'creating cracks in NATO's spirit,' essentially splitting the US-led coalition. This deals American geopolitics a major blow."

The analyst believes that the meeting could lead to real military and technological cooperation between Russian and Western forces engaged in the fight against ISIL.
Jobar, a Damascus district controlled by terrorists

The two leaders met in Moscow on Thursday to discuss anti-ISIL efforts and agreed to share intelligence data on terrorist groups. International relations expert Dmitry Suslov described the agreement as a "colossal breakthrough and colossal success."

"We managed to reach an agreement with Hollande in those areas, where we failed to with Obama," the analyst noted at a round table discussion held by Rossiya Segodnya International Information Agency.

Russia could use this opportunity to encourage cooperation with the US-led coalition via the communication channel between Moscow and Paris, he noted.

Hollande's visit to Moscow, according to Suslov, has also put an end to attempts to "consolidate the US-led coalition against Russia and to exclude any contacts between Russia and the Western coalition on activities in Syria."

Other experts do not share this optimism. International relations analyst Sergei Bolshakov considers Hollande to be a "week leader, who is fully controlled by the US." In his opinion, Washington is not interested in changing its strategy in the Middle East.

Russia has been engaged in counterterrorism efforts in Syria following a request from Damascus since September 30. Moscow's aerial campaign is aimed at destroying radical groups, which are seeking to overthrow the government of Bashar al-Assad. The US-led coalition, which has not received a formal authorization from Damascus, launched an airstrike campaign tasked with degrading and destroying ISIL in September 2014.

Turkey Refuses to Hand Materials on Attack on Su-24M Over to Russia

The Turkish side has refused to hand the Russian military attache any materials on Turkey’s attack on Russia’s Sukhoi Su-24M bomber, according to Russian Defense Ministry.

http://mil.today/2015/Syria38/

"Our military representative was notified that it was impossible to hand him any materials relating to the attack on a Russian plane on November 24 by a Turkish F-16 fighter," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said when speaking of the results of the diplomat’s visit to the Turkish General Staff. TASS qoutes him.

The Turkish Air Force’s F-16 fighter on Tuesday shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24M bomber that Ankara claims violated the country’s airspace on the border with Syria. The Su-24M crew ejected but one of the two pilots was killed by fire from the ground. The second pilot was rescued as a result of a 12-hour operation. During evacuation of the Su-24M crew, a Mi-8 helicopter was lost and a contract marine was killed.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said the Su-24M was above Syrian territory and "there was no violation of Turkey’s airspace." It said the Turkish Air Force fighter violated Syria’s airspace.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned that Turkey’s attack will have "serious consequences" for Russian-Turkish relations.

flamming_python wrote:
Watched Felgenheur giving an interview to a Russian-language Israeli internet TV channel last night; I think the views of Russian liberals are pretty clear on this

Any chance you could sum up the general gist of the video please pythin?

Turkey halts all military flights over Syria.

http://u-96.livejournal.com/4594750.html

Ass lovin' kebab bitches are not so tough anymore for some reason....

Few more shots from Syria featuring S400

Turkish F-16s was in Syrian airspace 40 seconds
The crew of the second aircraft of the Russian managed to convey a message about the launch of rockets from the fighter Su-24.

According to the Chief of the videoconferencing Minister Viktor Bondarev, Turkish F-16 shot down a Russian Su-24 was in Syrian airspace 40 seconds. At the same time, Colonel-General noted that the fighter has gone deep into the territory of the CAP is two kilometers away, and the plane of the Russian Federation did not cross the air border of Turkey.

- In accordance with the objective control materials, air defense, Turkish fighter plane was in Syrian airspace 40 seconds and went deep into its territory to two kilometers, and the state border of the Russian aircraft did not violate Turkey - assured Viktor Bondarev.

In addition, the Commander in Chief of the Russian Federation FSI said that the Russian crew of the second aircraft managed to convey a message about the launch of a rocket from a Turkish fighter.

- He watched the torch to his left and the trail of white smoke, what broadcasts reported the head of the flight, - said Viktor Bondarev.

Earlier, the military said that Turkey's radar monitored the Russian Su-24 more than an hour. Also, Colonel General reported that the F-16 Turkish Air Force aircraft were waiting for videoconferencing Russia in the air, it was a pre-planned action.

Soiled Sultan strikes again

Erdogan Warns Russia Not To 'Play With Fire'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/turkey-russia-erdogan_56584e06e4b079b2818a61be

This idiot just keeps on digging....  



Writers would call it Humiliation Conga

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumiliationConga

Rodinazombie wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Watched Felgenheur giving an interview to a Russian-language Israeli internet TV channel last night; I think the views of Russian liberals are pretty clear on this

Any chance you could sum up the general gist of the video please pythin?

Uh yeah sorry, forgot to translate.

Basically; the host goes to the first commentator - the esteemed military expert Pavel 'Pasha' Felgenheur; notable for his Georgian War predictions about how the US-trained, well-prepared Georgian army will thrash any response that the Russians make.
Basically he makes a couple psychological comparisons between Erdogan and Putin and also between their respective aims/reasons, and Turkey's and Russia's actions with defending Turkmen and ethnic Russians respectively, and the annexation of the Crimea and bla bla bla.
Also, he says that the Russians have no options to conventionally respond or anything like that (being quantitatively and qualitatively inferior in the region), they are limited to nukes, and that among the scenarios for what will happen next are the use of those nukes  
He does say a few sensible things though; that the Turks knew who they were shooting, and that whether or not the Russian plane really entered Turkey's airspace is not known, but in any case the action was premeditated.
All in all he takes a pretty nonchalant, faux objective, disconnected view of the whole situation - as if describing some incident that happened a few years ago between two countries on the other side of the world from Russia.

Then the host goes to his next guest, an Israeli ex-intelligence services head; Yakov Kedmi - who's also been making a lot of interesting commentary on the Ukrainian conflict over the past 18 months or so.
He views the Turkish downing of the plane as a clear provocation and that the Turks knew the plane wasn't threatening them.
He says that the scenario can go in either of two ways - a dying down of the tensions (and this is especially likely if the pilots are returned safely and are unharmed), or a steady increase in tensions. He says that Russia prefers the 1st scenario, but it depends on Erdogan and his real aims; he mentions the provocations Erdogan orchestrated against Israel a couple years ago and about how at the time there was speculation as to Erdogan's impulsiveness, brashness, and fitness for leadership - but that in the end it turned out that Erdogan was quite certain and was simply playing a sophisticated game, which called on Turkey ruining its relations with Israel in return for scoring political points at home and in the region and so on.
Kedmi finishes with a talk on Erdogan and Saakashvilli in terms of how he's not qualified to judge the psychological health of either one and that only a real psychiatrist would be able to do so.

Then finally the host turns to his guest in the studio (dunno who he is), who claims that based on the Russian internet, Russians are calling for revenge.
He points out that the Turks warned the Russians before, on previous occasions too, that the warnings to the aircraft were made over a lengthy period of time and that this was enough time for the Su-24 pilot to react and turn off his path or maneuver.
He says he cannot know what really happened but if Turkey insists on this version, than they probably have proof.
He also thinks that the Turks couldn't have known for sure that the Russian plane wasn't threatening them.
He views the Turkish actions as aggressive but somewhat justified.
He thinks no-one is interested in a real escalation, and that everything will die down after some muscle-flexing, perhaps after some new agreements between Russia and Turkey.
He's asked by the host as to whether he thinks something like this can happen between Israel and Russia - but he thinks it's very unlikely, given the agreements that Russia and Israel and their military delegations made at the start of the Russian intervention in Syria.
He only talks on this subject for the first 3-4 minutes, after that him and the host move onto unrelated Israeli domestic politics.

Honestly I dislike the last guest the most by far. Felgenheur is a known quantity and so are his views. But the last guest is intellectually dishonest, he doesn't state his real views, he starts of by painting Russians as some sort of vengeful animals in some sense, and then gives quite implausible justifications for the Turkish response that common sense would say are rubbish.

Mustafa Hajuroglu

=======================
Now officially in english :

Su-24 © Dmitriy Vinogradov / Sputnik
A Turkish fighter jet launched a missile at a Russian bomber on Tuesday well ahead of the Su-24 approaching the Turkish border, the chief of Russia’s Air Force said. The bomber remained on Turkish radars for 34 minutes and never received any warnings.

The attack on the Russian Su-24 bomber was intentional and had been planned in advance, Viktor Bondarev, the chief of Russia’s Air Force, announced Friday, calling the incident an “unprecedented backstab.”

The commander shared with the media previously unknown details of what happened on Tuesday.

On November 24, a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-24 tactical bombers took off from Khmeimim airbase in Latakia at 06:15 GMT, with an assignment to carry out airstrikes in the vicinity of the settlements of Kepir, Mortlu and Zahia, all in the north of Syria. Each bomber was carrying four OFAB-250 high-explosive fragmentation bombs.

Ten minutes later, the bombers entered the range of Turkish radars and took positions in the target area, patrolling airspace at predetermined heights of 5,800 meters and 5,650 meters respectively.

Both aircraft remained in the area for 34 minutes. During this time there was no contact between the crews of the Russian bombers and the Turkish military authorities or warplanes.

Some 20 minutes after arriving at the designated area, the crews received the coordinates of groups of terrorists in the region. After making a first run, the bombers performed a maneuver and then delivered a second strike.

Immediately after that, the bomber crewed by Lieutenant-Colonel Oleg Peshkov and Captain Konstantin Murakhtin was attacked by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet operating from the Diyarbakır airfield in Turkey.

To attack the Russian bomber with a close-range air-to-air missile, the Turkish fighter jet had to enter Syrian airspace, where it remained for about 40 seconds. Having launched its missile from a distance of 5-7 kilometers, the F-16 immediately turned towards the Turkish border, simultaneously dropping its altitude sharply, thus disappearing from the range of Russian radars at the Khmeimim airbase.

The Turkish fighter moved two kilometers into Syrian airspace while the Russian bomber at no stage violated Turkish airspace, Bondarev stressed.

The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.

Commander Bondarev noted that a pair of Turkish F-16Cs had been in the area close to the attack zone for more than an hour prior to the attack, which explains their presence in the area. The time needed to get the aircraft ready at the Diyarbakır airfield and travel to the attack zone is an estimated 46 minutes.

One of Turkish F-16Cs stopped its maneuvers and began to approach the Su-24M bomber about 100 seconds before the Russian aircraft came closest to the Turkish border, which also confirms the attack was pre-planned, Commander Bondarev stressed.

The chief of Russia’s Air Force also called attention to the readiness of the Turkish media, which released a professionally-made video of the incident recorded from an area controlled by extremists a mere 1.5 hours after the Su-24 was downed. (note that there was a video of the downing of the Russian Airbus 321 over Sinai as well, more preplanning)

Commander Bondarev also mentioned the memorandum of understanding regarding the campaign in Syria, signed by Moscow and Washington on October 26. In accordance with this agreement, the Russian side informed its American counterparts about the mission of the two bombers in the north of Syria on November 24, including the zones and heights of operation.

Taking this into account, the Turkish authorities’ statement on not knowing which aircraft were operating in the area raises eyebrows, Bondarev said.

Turkish Jets Ambushed Russian Su-24 - Russian Air Force Commander

For targets near the Turkish border Russia should use Smerch artillery that has 90 km range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-TRC_z7TQ

ultron wrote:For targets near the Turkish border Russia should use Smerch artillery that has 90 km range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-TRC_z7TQ

No, we should fly real close to the border, and provoke the turkish jets so they would give a reason to shoot them down. Basically what we are doing right now by bombing all those border crossings and turkish proxies.

ult wrote:

ultron wrote:For targets near the Turkish border Russia should use Smerch artillery that has 90 km range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-TRC_z7TQ

No, we should fly real close to the border, and provoke the turkish jets so they would give a reason to shoot them down. Basically what we are doing right now by bombing all those border crossings and turkish proxies.

I like this, would be easily done with a UAV trailed by Su-30SMs. And if the Turk pilot manages to eject, strafe him with the GSh-30-1 once he opens his chute. Turkish blood spilled on Turkish soil. Make sure the pilot who did this will never see his loved ones ever again.

Russian strike on Bab al Salam border crossing this afternoon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

Video 2 aftermath.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

I like it, so much about "safe buffer zone" and "no Russian flights near border".


Can anyone comment on the content of this video? What weapon was used, in your opinion? https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/670200295989866496

"Evil Russia is using illegal munitions on the peace loving civilians" meme has resurfaced. Incendiary bombs now. This time Raqqa where there is no such thing as a peaceful civilian.

https://twitter.com/raqqa_sl/status/670284120510111746
https://twitter.com/iraqisecurity/status/670335333867905024

SturmGuard wrote:Russian strike on Bab al Salam border crossing this afternoon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

Video 2 aftermath.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

I like it, so much about "safe buffer zone" and "no Russian flights near border".


Can anyone comment on the content of this video? What weapon was used, in your opinion? https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/670200295989866496

had to be an Air to ground missile with a heavy warhead.. fired from drone ,because it was too fast.. and anti tank missile will have been seen ,and even warned them.. of the attack..
they got no warning.  Whatever it was was AWESOME the wipe of Turkish and Israeli terrorist.


i want to see more lovely bombings of terrorist.. and there was many mercenaries there..
which is very good.  

For targets near the Turkish border Russia should use Smerch artillery that has 90 km range.

Against soft targets.. like terrorist they are not precise.. it also risk of falling in Turkey border.. is much better to use airforce with Kab-250 bombs.

SturmGuard wrote:Russian strike on Bab al Salam border crossing this afternoon.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

Video 2 aftermath.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuV_XIbjiIg

I like it, so much about "safe buffer zone" and "no Russian flights near border".


Can anyone comment on the content of this video? What weapon was used, in your opinion? https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/670200295989866496

Looks like Betab 500

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Looks like Betab 500

here a view of all the bombs Russia using.

https://www.rt.com/news/317662-russian-smart-bombs-syria/

Beautiful bomb ,hezbolah.. have to be having a lot of Fun with Russian new weapons..

"Forgive us Recep" - refering to Recep Erdogan written on R27 missile.

Apparently the new S-400 missiles are giving second thoughts to the fly over Syria
Airspace.

US Coalition Pulls Out of Syria, “On the Run” from Russian S 400

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/27/us-coalition-pulls-out-of-syria-on-the-run-from-russian-s-400/


Russia can use the su-24 shut down by Turkish terrorist , to their advantage..
Because now Russia have the right to retaliate Turkey.. but also Americans..
if Russia show evidence that the F-16s of Turkey did not acted alone and received
help from 2 American AWACS that were close and spying the Russian bomber to provide precise
position to the F-16s short range missiles.. without need to use its own radars. They fired the missiles at short distance to make it more difficult to react to them. But that only works if the target in this case Russian Airforce.. did not expect the Turkish side become so coward and
attack from behind a bomber that was only armed with air to ground weapons .

In a new confrontation Russian planes now know Turkey is on an undeclared war against Russia..so they will be now prepared to give the ISIS Turkish Airforce the punishment it deserve.