Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

Only with one engine, prototype two is being used for tests

a lot of bias here in these articles. I personally am sceptical about stealth aircraft most of the time there not really needed and when I heard Russia wanted 195 su-57 I doubted it. I expect around 50 for me they have there uses but that many (195) would be a waste of money especially with 6th gen coming along and the push towards UAV systems. 

what I always see in articles is russian economy bad and lack of funds they all fail to realise that Russia’s economy is actually doing quite well under the sanctions in fact I always laugh at sanctions the west never learn just look at Cuba and north Korea they haven't given up after half a century lol. in fact north Korea was more modern that the media portrays when I spent 10 days there visiting various parts of the country  (with guide of course) all sanctions do is turn the country into self reliance mode which is great less imports needed and boosts local trade, jobs, creates new industries and sometimes offers new export items as well as form closer ties with allies. So sanctions don't actually work.  They also fail to see the difference in usa defence budget and Russian budget if roles were reversed what state would usa military be in???? one article I read said that the difference in budgets was still hard to realise how this would effect procurement in Russia as you get more rubles for the dollar yeah okaaay the man was a moron like usa having a a budget at least ten times more than Russia hasn't got something to do with the fact usa can procure more expensive items and equipment in Russia isn't 10 times cheaper. people write this garbage are mad. 

war is boring and national interest is written by bias puppets who have no clue what their talking about some of the article's are completely embarrassing and some look like they have been written by 10 year olds.

your views on the su-57 future / this so called news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHaPZdrielk&app=desktop

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/rip-russias-stealth-fighter-why-su-57-serious-trouble-43542

@d_taddei2:

Yeah, latest NI stunt is 100% unsalvageable crap. They just keep regurgitating their anti Russian propaganda regularly, because Russia is the enemy and hence it is to be harassed and weakened until it gives up and can be destroyed. Their course is set, nobody should reasonably host hopes of a settlement with US unless a cataclysmic change takes place among their leadership.

This bashing of the Su-57 is a very interesting phenomenon, devoid of any technical merit or basic honesty, that continues unabated since the very beginning of the program, changing the arguments as they are busted but keeping the actors and the general tone of the thing. As of late it is very amusing to see the usual suspects struggling to cope with the fact that USAF seems to be planning to order F-15 again, after having mocked Russian VVS for still buying gen 4++ fighters and considered them useless junk in the modern warfare. Apart from how embarrassing it would be closing the line of the F-22 and then ordering its predecessor instead (and what it says about the F-22 as a weapon system itself), it is very interesting seeing them justifying the movement by the fact that ANG should only be tasked with air space defence missions and stealth is not necessary for it... yeah but Russia is desperately keen on attacking CONUS or something similar needing stealth right? On the other hand, F-22 seems too good to be ordered further but Su-57 cannot be considered unnecessary by Russia by now, sure.

Regarding the future numbers and use of PAK-FA, I guess it is still not 100% decided. They said and it is true that they need to use and understand 5G before jumping to 6G. So Su-57 will be produced and used, at least in some modest numbers before 2030. But it is true too that early 5G (F-22) were expensive toys while late 5G (F-35, Su-57) seem to be just a short lived effort before 6G appears. So to say, not much came out of 5G due IMO to US conceiving it under a partially flawed philosophy and influencing other countries expectations and requirements through it. Planes that ended up being expensive, frail (F-22) and relying excessively on stealth and superiority of the technologies and not of the airframe (F-35), forcing USAF to rush into 6G. Hence the Russian intent on using Su-57 as a way into 6G. Is this possible? To a certain extent I think so, since the airframe is considerably more advanced than other 5G designs and a good step in direction to what we see from 6G (small rudders, advanced aero, big weapon bays, long range, distributed apertures) and then most of what seems will be the defining characteristics of 6G (unmanned operation, variable cycle engines, connectivity & smart sensors, DEW, interaction with UCAVs etc.) should depend on discrete subsystems that would logically be possible to retrofit on an existing platform. Due to size, philosophy and layout the Su-57 is considerably more apt to remain actual after such upgrades than for instance F-35, limited by cooling capacity, range, weapon bays size and lacklustre aero performance for a fighter. And now with the creation of UCAVs this capacity to remain actual will be increased even more, because the UCAVS themselves offer the possibility of being tailored to different missions and theatres, from more to less permissive, from strike to AD or interception. In that case of course the number of actual Su-57 being deployed would be affected by two novel factors:

> On the one hand, one fighter is said to be coupled with up to 30 UAVs, meaning numbers of Su-57 wouldn't need to be big to command a powerful UCAV airforce
> On the other, the flexibility granted by the UCAVs would allow the Su-57 to substitute the great majority of current fighter-like planes in VVS.

So in short, a very long term program, but not a failed one IMO, except in the West's wildest dreams.

PapaDragon wrote:Su-57 will be getting same treatment as Flanker series: gradual acquisition over long period of time with constant upgrades and modifications. It's not going anywhere.

Expect to see Gen 5++ version of Su-57 in several decades, same as how Su-27 became Su-35.

That seems the idea indeed. But as I discussed further, weight of Su-57 fleet vs. other planes & UCAVs will depend on future developments of air power. I think they will be able to cope will new developments, do not buy that the new Western 6G UFO proposals are going to materialise as soon and as marvellous as published.

Basis or first specimen of 6-gen will be new interceptor (''MiG-41''), not Su-57.

Volume of work on Su-57 by now seems to be orders of magnitude above anything else, let's wait for MiG-41 to go its way. It is not clear  what characteristics it will have or in what generation it will be classified. Not that it matters too much though. But in any case officials have clearly mentioned the Su-57 as a plane that will be developed into next gen...

Hopefully Russia follows similar approach and come up with ''Su-30X'' down the road

They have that strategy already at work isn't it? (this was what these monkeys were mocking in the first place, until they had to swallow the notion  that their almighty USAF may emulate it     ). The Su-30SM and Su-35S fleets are quite new and the former is slated for modernization soon. They will be there for 20+ years to come.

This is without a doubt one of dumbest things USA has ever done. I read all the reasons for it but I still can't wrap my head around it.

It is so dumb that I am inclined to suspect the plane having some serious flaws in terms of practical operation, export ban does not help to dispel that suspicion. That, or the MIC killing any possible rival of JSF. In any case it was produced in very little numbers for an US plane while appears that it will be both outlasted by its predecessor and substituted soon by the PCA after being declared the best and most dominant fighter of all times

All good points and yes the usa will go back to F-15 basis although they will still likely make it expensive and plagued with faults it what they do to milk the money. F-15 is a good aircraft though.

and yes Su-30/34/35 along with mig-35 & 31 upgrades and slow introduction of su-57, mig-41 as I said I see stealth a niche role a one trick pony so to speak and yes GarryB spot on with advancements in sensors and radar stealth aircraft will be short lived a bit like the mini disc concept it only lasted a few years it also seems it's cheaper to invest in new sensors and radar than it is to invest in stealth technology. so although as u say it's good to reduce rcs but don't spend too much money on it or worry about it too much. It's a bit like the whole tank and better armour saga it was always cheaper and easier to develop an anti tank missile to defeat the new armour, armour technology couldn't keep up and they knew it was a losing battle hence new focus on soft and hard kill systems.

Hole wrote:Well, the western block has to reduce the RCS because of the dense network of russian air defence systems. Also the B-2 and F-22 were designed to bring guided bombs close to the target (10km or so). On the other hand the "stealthiness" of the Su-57 and (soon) Okhotnik are more then enough for the much weaker western (ground-based) air defences. Plus the russian jets/drones will mainly use AGM´s (Kh-59M2, Kh-58UShK) and glide bombs.

US is developing and ordering as many stand-off weapons as they can, all while mocking Russia fake stealth with their usual duplicity. So much for pretending they can come 10 km of a SAM site without being observed

Found this source with technical characteristics of the Su-57:

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/istrebiteli-i-perehvatchiki/su-57-pak-fa/

It comes from New Defence Order Strategy, which I considered a serious source, but I am not very convinced, since Russia has not made public essentially any technical data of the plane.

Any thoughts about credibility of these data??

The crew - 1 person
Length - 19,7 m
Wingspan 14 m
Height - 4.8 m
Wing area - 82 sq. m
Wing sweep is 48 degrees

Takeoff weight - 37000 kg
Takeoff weight normal - 30610 kg
Empty weight - 18500 kg
Thrust-to-weight - 0,98-1,13
The mass of the fuel - 11100 kg (in internal tanks)
The payload mass up to 10000 kg

The maximum speed is 2,600 km/h (at altitude)
Cruising speed besforsazhny - 1.47 M

Operating ceiling of 20,000 m

The flight range (without refueling):
◊ with the FTB - 5500 km
◊ without PTB - 4300 km

The run - 350-400 m
Mileage is 350-400 m

Maximum operating overload - 10-11 G

Also thrust of izd. 30 is stated 17-18 t.

BTW, here:

http://dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/aviatsionnye-rakety-i-bomby/9-a-7660-kinzhal/

They also state that Kinzhal will be compatible with Su-57...