India and Russia joint military projects: News

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India, Russia to create FGFA ahead of schedule

India Interested in Producing Frigates Jointly With Russia



From 2003 to 2013, Russia delivered to India six frigates of project 11356. The first three vessels were equipped with Klub-N cruise missiles; the others were armed with BrahMos cruise missiles.

The Indian government expressed interest to jointly produce project 11356 frigates on its territory, Oleg Shumakov, director of the Yantar Shipyard, told RIA Novosti.
From 2003 to 2013, Russia delivered to India six frigates of project 11356 which were built at the Baltiysky Zavod in St. Petersburg and at the Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad. The first three vessels were equipped with Klub-N cruise missiles; the others were armed with BrahMos cruise missiles of Russian-Indian production.

"After we completed a series of three Indian orders, we hoped that India would continue partnership. What is more, the Indian Defense Ministry said the county’s navy needed three-four more vessels of that class. Currently, they are examining a scenario to produce such ships at home, of course, with our participation and under our guidance," Shumakov said.

He also noted that frigates which are planned to be built in India will equipped with more advanced weapons than actual vessels of the project.


"According to our plan, those ships will be of the same class, but with different weapons. Weaponry progresses non-stop, so, I think, the new vessel will be equipped with something more advanced. However, as for its seagoing capabilities, it will be the same. Now we are consulting with our Indian colleagues on all the aspects of the project," Shumakov added.
Frigates of project 11356 are armed to fight against surface warships and submarines as well as to repel aerial attacks — both separately and in formation.

They are equipped with versatile missiles, artillery guns and advanced radio-technical devices for anti-submarine and anti-aircraft defense.

Vessels of the project have a displacement of nearly 4,000 tons, a length of 125 meters, a speed of 30 knots (56 kmh), and a crew of 180.



http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150520/1022361828.html#ixzz3ag5mN646

A private Indian company 'Reliance Infrastructure', via it's subsidiary 'Reliance Defence Systems' is looking to get into the Nuclear Submarine business

Indian businessmen looking for a partner in Russia to construct nuclear submarines

22/05/2015 RIA Novosti

The Indian company Reliance Infrastructure is looking for a partner in Russia to create a joint venture for the construction of nuclear submarines and warships, using “stealth” technologies, according to an article in the Indian newspaper Economic Times.

According to the newspaper, top executives of the company are currently in Moscow, where they are meeting with senior officials of the Russian Ministry of Defense. A source familiar with the negotiations said that this week these Indian executives might even meet with Sergey Shoigu and name a potential Russian partner, one with the necessary technological expertise.

The report said that negotiations are currently underway for the construction of six modern nuclear submarines, using technologies provided by a foreign partner, at the shipyards in the Indian state of Gujarat.

http://in.rbth.com/news/2015/05/22/indian_businessmen_looking_for_a_partner_in_russia_to_construct_nuclear__43277.html

'Big Deal' is an understatement if it goes through

Actually it will be a MASSIVE DEAL FOR RUSSIA .


http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-eyes-massive-nuclear-submarine-deal-india-12997

Indian private sector working jointly with Russian defense cos is welcome decision and win win for both nations,. Russian have contributed in the compact designs for Arihant sub nuclear reactor

India can be first foreign buyer of "Armata"

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150605/1068373773.html

MOSCOW, 5 Dec — RIA Novosti. India is interested in buying Russian military generation platform "Armata" or its individual components for further processing tank, said in an interview with the Agency Sputnik the Indian expert of the analytical center Gateway House Samir Patil.
He commented on the words of the Russian presidential aide on military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin, who said yesterday that India, China and Southeast Asia have shown interest in the new models of Russian armored vehicles, primarily to the tank "Armata".
"India has plans to develop its own tank — Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). And I think, if the budget allows, India can purchase the "Armata", or at least some of the components for study and future use when creating your own tank," said Patil.
In addition, according to him, about the benefits of the acquisition of the tank "Armata" says that this platform is suitable for creating a range of combat vehicles.
"And I think India would be interested in purchasing such a fighting platform for the army," — said the Agency interlocutor.
The expert also did not rule out the possibility of joint development of the necessary Indian "tank of the future".
"Russia is the only country with which India maintains joint development of weapons. These projects combat aircraft of the fifth generation (PAK FA) and transport aircraft (MTS Multipurpose transport aircraft"). I think that India will be interested in the possibility of establishing a joint venture for the development of a new tank because it corresponds to the initiative of Prime Minister modi's "Make in India". This program is aimed at finding foreign partners for joint development and production", said Patil.
The main feature of the tank is a new generation of T-14 "Armata" is its layout. The entire crew of the tank is placed in the case and protected in an armored capsule. Combat vehicle equipped with active protection system which secures the destruction of the incoming anti-tank ammunition in automatic mode without human intervention.
The level robotics platform "Armata" suggests that as additional special elements you can create fighting machines that operate without human presence on Board.

"India has plans to develop its own tank — Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). And I think, if the budget allows, India can purchase the "Armata", or at least some of the components for study and future use when creating your own tank," said Patil.

That is exactly why they would want a modern tank in their fleet, to try to safe their failed project and to develope their MIC.

Werewolf wrote:

"India has plans to develop its own tank — Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). And I think, if the budget allows, India can purchase the "Armata", or at least some of the components for study and future use when creating your own tank," said Patil.

That is exactly why they would want a modern tank in their fleet, to try to safe their failed project and to develope their MIC.

There´s nothing wrong with this as long as Russian factories and R&D keep running.
Before Indians get their Armata, Russia will have not T-14 but T-34-Relsotron

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

"India has plans to develop its own tank — Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). And I think, if the budget allows, India can purchase the "Armata", or at least some of the components for study and future use when creating your own tank," said Patil.

That is exactly why they would want a modern tank in their fleet, to try to safe their failed project and to develope their MIC.

There´s nothing wrong with this as long as Russian factories and R&D keep running.
Before Indians get their Armata, Russia will have not T-14 but T-34-Relsotron  

Of course there is something wrong with this. If India wants a modern tank to sustain and build up their own Tank manufactoring industry then they should ask the russians for help in R&D and not trying to cut short by trying to reverse engineers with their 30-40 years behind state of the art tank manufactoring. Russia shouldn't be stupid and sell such crucial technology to anyone at least not as long their are no new T-34's in prospect or a vast upgrade for T-14.

Sorry, but isn't this Indian "FICV" an IFV project?  And also supposed to be fully amphibious?
So they wouldn't seem be interested in licencing "tank" designs for it, although Kurganets would seem potentially appropriate.
Armata seems more of a basis for any future replacement for T-90...but I'm not sure if they have such a program yet?

mutantsushi wrote:Sorry, but isn't this Indian "FICV" an IFV project?  And also supposed to be fully amphibious?
So they wouldn't seem be interested in licencing "tank" designs for it, although Kurganets would seem potentially appropriate.
Armata seems more of a basis for any future replacement for T-90...but I'm not sure if they have such a program yet?

FICV is an ICV indeed. But wheeled and tracked.

mutantsushi wrote:Sorry, but isn't this Indian "FICV" an IFV project?  And also supposed to be fully amphibious?
So they wouldn't seem be interested in licencing "tank" designs for it, although Kurganets would seem potentially appropriate.
Armata seems more of a basis for any future replacement for T-90...but I'm not sure if they have such a program yet?

earlier in this thread was info about addons to make Armata swim :-) but interest from Indian side is true regardless for what they need it.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
I believe you have pessimistic perception of situation. Su-30MKI or Brahmos examples prove this is not necessarily true. IMHO both sides benefited nicely. Money for Su-30MKI helped to build Su-35...

T-34 is not in plans of course but was my visualization to support thesis that when India will be happily producing T-14 Russia will be far ahead with own Armor.

Of course i am pessimistic when hearing such news. This isn't some non important technology to an Allied country, this is  India which is hardly lobbied by Western countries to be any Russian and Anti-Sino. If the Indians want a good tank and want progression with their failed project they can participate and ask for R&D on basis of Prorif-2 which is today among the best if not the best protected tank with the highest mobility.

Money is cheap when national security can be comprimized. Whenever i hear that Russia is supplying Su-35, S-400/300, Ka-52, T-14, or any PKO/PVO systems that is a concern for me, based on such events like UK buying russian T-80U,MSTA-S and K5 via Morocco. If the West wants progression in fields it holds no experience and technologies they should do it like US did out of necessity. Buying cooperation and patents of Kontakt-1 related technology to make ARAT ERA for Abrams tanks.

Those technologies above and more are above what the West can produce right now, so yes i am pessimistic when hearing of exports of such technologies.


PS: Your signatures always make me laugh.

Russia could cooperate with India but directly selling them the Armata (even in five to ten years) would not be the smartest decision. We already know that the T-14's Western equivalent (next-gen Leo) is *at least* 15 years away, and as such Armata should be valued and protected until then. India could maybe get information on the APS, next-generation etc, but not the components themselves. - Unless they sign an agreement to say, build Armata chassis for Russia or something like that. 

Russia is ahead of the game right now, they need to keep it this way. 

(M1A3 is coming in around 10 years but will only be a minor upgrade comprising of a diesel engine, improved armor, and possible a new FCS. It will not be a threat to Armata.

Werewolf wrote: Of course i am pessimistic when hearing such news. This isn't some non important technology to an Allied country, this is  India which is hardly lobbied by Western countries to be any Russian and Anti-Sino. If the Indians want a good tank and want progression with their failed project they can participate and ask for R&D on basis of Prorif-2 which is today among the best if not the best protected tank with the highest mobility.

Money is cheap when national security can be comprimized. Whenever i hear that Russia is supplying Su-35, S-400/300, Ka-52, T-14, or any PKO/PVO systems that is a concern for me, based on such events like UK buying russian T-80U,MSTA-S and K5 via Morocco. If the West wants progression in fields it holds no experience and technologies they should do it like US did out of necessity. Buying cooperation and patents of Kontakt-1 related technology to make ARAT ERA for Abrams tanks.

Those technologies above and more are above what the West can produce right now, so yes i am pessimistic when hearing of exports of such technologies.

Technologies have one constant - pace of changes: today new tomorrow obsolete. I do not think Russia would sell best in breed stuff for Russian Army. But as you mentioned in National Security issues short investment money is not most important. However is Armata localization in couple of years can bring India closer to Russo-Chinese partnership and say extra 160bln/m3 / year of gas via safe route via China. Not ot mention common production of Superjets/cars or other goods to 3rd markets. Then this makes sense

Werewolf wrote: PS: Your signatures always make me laugh.

If you said quality of my posts is super I wouldn´t mind either BTW accidentally i found Pindos Mountains in Greece but Zhyrinovski made me spill coffee on keyboard. I had to add it

Mike E wrote:Russia could cooperate with India but directly selling them the Armata (even in five to ten years) would not be the smartest decision. We already know that the T-14's Western equivalent (next-gen Leo) is *at least* 15 years away, and as such Armata should be valued and protected until then. India could maybe get information on the APS, next-generation etc, but not the components themselves. - Unless they sign an agreement to say, build Armata chassis for Russia or something like that. 

Russia is ahead of the game right now, they need to keep it this way. 

(M1A3 is coming in around 10 years but will only be a minor upgrade comprising of a diesel engine, improved armor, and possible a new FCS. It will not be a threat to Armata.

I guess there will be Armata-E option before any export contract is inked and delivered. In geopolitics there is no love only national interests and in Russia´s best interest in keep India on BRICS/SCO side.

Mike E wrote:Russia could cooperate with India but directly selling them the Armata (even in five to ten years) would not be the smartest decision. We already know that the T-14's Western equivalent (next-gen Leo) is *at least* 15 years away, and as such Armata should be valued and protected until then. India could maybe get information on the APS, next-generation etc, but not the components themselves. - Unless they sign an agreement to say, build Armata chassis for Russia or something like that. 

Russia is ahead of the game right now, they need to keep it this way. 

(M1A3 is coming in around 10 years but will only be a minor upgrade comprising of a diesel engine, improved armor, and possible a new FCS. It will not be a threat to Armata.

Russia should treat the T-14 like the US treats the F-22 Raptor. Russia should treat the PAK-FA this way as well. India can
go an develop its own super duper tech. I am sick and tired to listening to all the Russia bashing over Russia's "non delivery" of
the two-seater PAK-FA to India and the routine claim that India paid for the development of the PAK-FA.

Countries are allowed to have special status equipment which they do not sell for national security reasons. There is
no right of any other country to buy this equipment. The T-90MS is good enough for export. The SU series of jets
are good enough for export as well.

kvs wrote:

Mike E wrote:Russia could cooperate with India but directly selling them the Armata (even in five to ten years) would not be the smartest decision. We already know that the T-14's Western equivalent (next-gen Leo) is *at least* 15 years away, and as such Armata should be valued and protected until then. India could maybe get information on the APS, next-generation etc, but not the components themselves. - Unless they sign an agreement to say, build Armata chassis for Russia or something like that. 

Russia is ahead of the game right now, they need to keep it this way. 

(M1A3 is coming in around 10 years but will only be a minor upgrade comprising of a diesel engine, improved armor, and possible a new FCS. It will not be a threat to Armata.

Russia should treat the T-14 like the US treats the F-22 Raptor.   Russia should treat the PAK-FA this way as well.   India can
go an develop its own super duper tech.   I am sick and tired to listening to all the Russia bashing over Russia's "non delivery" of
the two-seater PAK-FA to India and the routine claim that India paid for the development of the PAK-FA.  

Countries are allowed to have special status equipment which they do not sell for national security reasons.   There is
no right of any other country to buy this equipment.   The T-90MS is good enough for export.   The SU series of jets
are good enough for export as well.

2nd this.

Not only is T-90MS already better than anything the west can offer for export also than most of what NATO has in its own service, but also Sukhoi export jets are also much better than what the West offers for Export, in technology wise aswell as performance wise, but i guess you should buying M1A1H which are on the level of T-72B or T-80U standards of protection with inferior mobility and durability, because all operators of those M1A1 export models seam to enjoy how advanced technology of these beasts is, so they change them for T-72M monkey models due their ineffectivity on the battlefield. Lack of ammunition is kind of a cripplying effect in urban warfare, but unless you are not planing shooting on Ironman with KE penetrators you are better suited wth even MonkeyModel 72's firing HE-Frag ammunition against US incenstous terrorists in urban warfare.

[quote="kvs"]

Mike E wrote:Russia could cooperate with India but directly selling them the Armata (even in five to ten years) would not be the smartest decision. We already know that the T-14's Western equivalent (next-gen Leo) is *at least* 15 years away, and as such Armata should be valued and protected until then. India could maybe get information on the APS, next-generation etc, but not the components themselves. - Unless they sign an agreement to say, build Armata chassis for Russia or something like that. 

.

3rd this..

Is kind of stupid Russia give away their best technology ,to other nations that later ends in the hands of western spies.  India basically wants the technology of armata without working for it ,for cheap ,to reverse engineer it and later design their tanks..  India also wanted the technology of Pak-Fa .. and also want Russia to help India to build Yasen Submarines.. know where im going.?  India wants to become a super power for almost free.. ,paying just a small fee.  But when they do Business with US..or Israel or any NATO they never get any transfer of technology .. They buy the product and pays the market price for it.. not special price.  

Russia should evaluate if its worth of doing , transfering technology to their allies for next to nothing.. China is on the same boat..but worse.. they want SU-35 to reverse engineer it.. and
later sell it back for cheaper price.. China have no ethics at all in Business. And Russia should be
very careful with their S-400s to China ,because they will reverse engineer it and later sell it back to nations like Turkey... already doing that with Chinese version of S-300.

CHina also sold T-72 copies to Venezuela if remember well.. is really bad.. Russia needs to become 100% independent and trade zero technology that is crucial for its nation defense.
Chinnese really have no ethics with business...  And Russia sales to CHina should be limited to Energy ,raw materials.. If want to help  .

IT will be better a share project if Russia wants to help India and or China and send new young engineers ,recently graduated.. that are not genius but ok students. who never developed anything ,to build a partnership to develop military weapons with India or China.. but without compromising any top technology from Russia.  SOmething similar to the S-350 project between Russia and SOuth Korea. That will be a win /win for both sides..  because both sides will get knowledge.. and it will not be Russia selling technology and teaching all..and instead will be both sides working together to develop something new.

But giving away the nation top technology is stupid .
in the last few days ,have read how much India wants help to build submarines like Russia ,
Stealth Planes like Russia , next generation tanks like Russia. And it looks like just like China
they both are taking advantage of Russia economic problems to Extort Russia and obtain for very cheap state of the art  for next to nothing

CHina for example originally wanted 32 Su-35 planes.. because they need to reverse engineer the engines.. and the more Russia economy is in trouble ,the more cheaper is the offer from China.. now they are negotiating for 15. . Imho not worth of the pain. Russia should not sell their best hardware to anyone .

India and CHina are great nations , and Russia should continue having close relations with them.. but their best technology should be better keep.. and not sold anywhere , just like Americans do with their F-22 plane.

That said i really think is bad idea Russia sell Pak-FA to anyone else.. or Armata.. and instead
Modernize upgrade their Su-30 and Mig-29 and make them a bit more stealthy ,not using Pak-fa technology.. and sell those for exports.. Same with their  T-90.. to add Arena ,improve the protection and Gun power a bit. and sell those for exports only.. In other word just optimize
their older technology for exports.. good enough to compete with western upgraded F-16s and European fighters.. but not as good as Pak-FA or Su-35 electronic warfare capabilities.

Already Russia had lots of problems with important technology being stolen ,when US organize a coup in X or Y nation and the new Government in Power shares Russia technology with them.

This happened with Egypt.. with Ukraine now , and with some asian countries . etc.


In a bit off topic news.. speaking about India.. Just days ago ,the new Obama freedom fighters
that Obama trains and arms, killed 20 Indian soldiers with american anti tank weapons..

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150606/1023008146.html

This should be an awakened call for India ,to stop its neutrality in the world and become much
more active in world conflicts in alliance with Russia.

Werewolf wrote:
Of course i am pessimistic when hearing such news. This isn't some non important technology to an Allied country, this is  India which is hardly lobbied by Western countries to be any Russian and Anti-Sino. If the Indians want a good tank and want progression with their failed project they can participate and ask for R&D on basis of Prorif-2 which is today among the best if not the best protected tank with the highest mobility.

but they are already buying T-90MS by the hundreds- they want a new state of the art tank.

Werewolf wrote:
Money is cheap when national security can be comprimized. Whenever i hear that Russia is supplying Su-35, S-400/300, Ka-52, T-14, or any PKO/PVO systems that is a concern for me, based on such events like UK buying russian T-80U,MSTA-S and K5 via Morocco. If the West wants progression in fields it holds no experience and technologies they should do it like US did out of necessity. Buying cooperation and patents of Kontakt-1 related technology to make ARAT ERA for Abrams tanks.

there is always that risk yes, but look on the bright side. your likely adversary is using stuff based on your stuff at least a generation earlier .
you still have the knowledge behind the operating principles of your old stuff, and you especially know its weaknesses. time to exploit those!

kvs wrote:
Russia should treat the T-14 like the US treats the F-22 Raptor.   Russia should treat the PAK-FA this way as well.   India can
go an develop its own super duper tech.   I am sick and tired to listening to all the Russia bashing over Russia's "non delivery" of
the two-seater PAK-FA to India and the routine claim that India paid for the development of the PAK-FA.

and who are these people bashing the Russians- certainly not the people who matter. never read of Indian generals bash Russian tanks- ive read of Russian generals do so tho.

kvs wrote:
Countries are allowed to have special status equipment which they do not sell for national security reasons.   There is
no right of any other country to buy this equipment.   The T-90MS is good enough for export.   The SU series of jets
are good enough for export as well.

dude its only a tank- not an iskander. if they are willing to sell iskanders i say they are ready and willing to sell armatas too. and iskanders are more of a possible security threat than any number of tanks- load a nuke warhead on it and you have an effective nuke weapon read to strike.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
I guess there will be Armata-E option before any export contract is inked and delivered. In geopolitics there is no love only national interests and in Russia´s best interest in keep India on BRICS/SCO side.

there would be an Armata-E eventually, in fact the modular nature of T-14 and rest of armatas lends itself well to making different versions, including an export one.

and who knows- perhaps UVZ manages to convince the Indians to invest in T-95 instead.