India and Russia joint military projects: News

Just trying to clarify some misinformation on Indian AFV projects as i see many members using some terms very often:

1) Indian has Bought Approx 1600 T-90S and not the MS version.
- Approx 1000 of T-90S are already in service

2)T-90S would come for an mid life upgrade as its almost 14years since first 124 were inducted in 2001-02
- Upgrade would definitely involve technology and components from T-90 MS/ T-14/ Arjun

3) Next 10years Indian Army will not get a chance to induct any MBT in numbers, only small numbers will be inducted in lots of 100 over 3-4 years time, nothing more.
- so the next MBT big buy will come around 2025-27 period.

4) FICV in the big buy project for Indian Mechanized forces
- As per the project, it has to be Made in India, by an Indian company.
- Indian company can have partnership with foreign vendors.
- Most indication are that 2 different designs will be selected for tests and eventually one will be selected.
- Indian MoD will fund some % of both the design development cost.
- As with most Indian projects, this project has hit some roadblocks and slowed down, it should pick up by next year.

5) The current project of around 1500+ BMP 2 upgrade is what is on the cards. (most likely upgraded to BMP 2M standard)

I believe reports in Indian media about below par performance of Russian equipment are all paid news and none of the are any kind of official view.

Some joint ventures between russia and china and india would be usefull. Think that same tehnology is gives to both countryes. But most better i sugest that russia must stay close to india. Because indians have top scientists and their only problems are economical. So would be better to stay close. Both were togheter when was communism because both felt that others than Us should be powers. They both wanted peace. United states want only to rule the world. And all stay under their conditions....

dberwal wrote:Just trying to clarify some misinformation on Indian AFV projects as i see many members using some terms very often:

1) Indian has Bought Approx 1600 T-90S and not the MS version.
- Approx 1000 of T-90S are already in service

I believe its 1650 T-90 plus an additional 240 T-90 on china front.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20121105/main5.htm

So Total would be 1800 T-90

2)T-90S would come for an mid life upgrade as its almost 14years since first 124 were inducted in 2001-02
- Upgrade would definitely involve technology and components from T-90 MS/ T-14/ Arjun

Yes for Arjun and T-90MS.

I dont know if T-14 can be of help except for Constellation C4 system but I believe we will have our own Netcentric system for T-90.

5) The current project of around 1500+ BMP 2 upgrade is what is on the cards. (most likely upgraded to BMP 2M standard)

Additionally high power engine

I believe reports in Indian media about below par performance of Russian equipment are all paid news and none of the are any kind of official view.

True , Mostly Ajay Shukla who spearheads it , He is banned by Russian Embassy from any press event

Austin wrote:
I believe its 1650 T-90 plus an additional 240 T-90 on china front.

So Total would be 1800 T-90

IA has put upgraded T-72 on china front

the news of 240 T-90MS for china front is not authentic. Thus the number still stands at 1600-1650 approx

there is no need to place any new order of T-90 as even the previous order is not completed. India never buys in advance.

Yes for Arjun and T-90MS.

I dont know if T-14 can be of help except for Constellation C4 system but I believe we will have our own Netcentric system for T-90.

 one never knows what russians have up their sleeves, something can surely find place in T-90 upgrade

Nice

India to Develop New Tank, Use Russian Armata as Prototype

George1 wrote:India to Develop New Tank, Use Russian Armata as Prototype

This is a very welcome news and more such joint venture must be launched with Russia

Russian military hardware makes up around 40 percent of all hardware in the Indian ground forces (it is even more in India’s Air Force — 80 percent, and Navy — 75 percent). In total, there are around 600 T-55 tanks, almost 2,000 T-72M1 and 640 T-90C tanks

Viktor wrote:Nice

India to Develop New Ta nk, Use Russian Armata as Prototype

India must go for more joint ventures with Russia its only all weather friend

Can't wait for indian paid tabloits to bitch again about pathetic russian armor and indian version is better and how russians are incapable of delivering the product... yada yada yada

Werewolf wrote:Can't wait for indian paid tabloits to bitch again about pathetic russian armor and indian version is better and how russians are incapable of delivering the product... yada yada yada

Indian media is paid pout and shitty now a days, what matters is cooperation and joint projects between Russia and India

Any news on progress of signing FGFA contract during Indian PM's Russia visit ?

Russia says that it wants to make India a global hub for the upgrade, maintenance and repair of conventional submarines and its leading shipyard is in final talks to select an Indian joint venture partner for a mega project to set up facilities here.

With contracts worth several thousand crores in the offing for the upgrade of Russian origin diesel electric submarines — several from the Indian Navy itself — the joint venture has the potential of making the selected Indian shipyard a serious player in the international market.

Officials from the state-run Zvyozdochka shipyard told ET that a memorandum of understanding could be signed within a month as it is in final talks with an Indian partner for the project. Russian engineers have already visited the Indian yard and advised it on changes to be made as well as investments needed to execute the project.

“We are in the process of negotiating with an Indian shipyard and if these negotiations are successful, it could become our partner for future tasks of modernising Kilo class submarines. Not just for India but for third nations as well,” Evgeny V Shustikov, Deputy Director General of Zvyozdochka told ET.

While the Russian side is reluctant to share details, it is learnt that several rounds of talks have taken place between Zvyozdochka and the Gujarat-based Pipavav Shipyard that has recently been bought over by Anil Ambani’s Reliance. A final round of talks are expected to take place in August.

Explaining the project, Shustikov says that the Russian side is looking at a joint venture model with partners in India who can execute work orders from the region. India alone is looking at the imminent second life extension of at least four Kilo class submarines. This would give the fleet almost 15 more years of service life. “Our estimate is that we will be loaded with work for at least 15-20 years,” Shustikov says.

Other nations that operate Kilos in the region include Iran with three submarines of the same class and Nigeria with six. In addition, Russia has recently sold six upgraded Kilo class submarines to Vietnam that will require overhauling and repairs in the coming years and is pursuing several other orders in the region.

“India could become a second center in the world for Kilo class upgrade. For certain nations it is easier to send the submarine for repair to India than to any other place. It is also a good chance for India to master the repair and upgrade of this class of vessel,” Andrey Baranov, deputy CEO Rubin design bureau that has designed the Kilo class, told ET.

http://idrw.org/russia-wants-to-make-india-a-global-hub-for-submarine-upgrade-maintenance-and-repair/

Russia May Become Partner in India's Aircraft Carrier Project

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150722/1024934726.html#ixzz3ghIFHNaS

Russia and India in Talks on Military Hardware Joint Production

Russia and India are exploring the possibility of exporting and cooperatively manufacturing Russian helicopters and other military hardware, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said Friday.

NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — The two countries have been working together to develop a Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA.) The defense minister said in July that the project was long past the preliminary stage and estimated India’s total contribution at around $230 million.

In a written reply to the Indian parliament’s lower house Lok Sabha, the minister informed lawmakers that the Defense Acquisition Council (DAC) had authorized in May 2015 the procurement and co-production of Russian helicopters in India.

"No contract has been concluded in this regard between the two countries," Parrikar indicated. "Other projects under discussion with Russia include tanks, aircraft, ships etc," the letter continued.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150807/1025497423.html#ixzz3i8VyVtmO

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/160-Kamov-Choppers-to-be-Built-in-India-40-in-Russia/2015/08/27/article2996533.ece

MOSCOW: India can manufacture 160 out of the 200 Kamov Ka-226T Light Utility Helicopters -- which will eventually replace the vintage Cheetah and Chetak choppers -- while the rest will be made in Russia, the CEO of a state-run business and manufacturing conglomerate here has said.

Sergey Chemezov, CEO of Russian state-run business and manufacturing conglomerate Rostec Corporation, said under the agreement reached between Russia and India on manufacturing 200 KA226T helicopters, New Delhi will be free to build and export the aircraft to other countries.

This is considered a major step forward towards realisation of the 'Make in India' campaign of Prime Minister Narendra Modi which is being seen with keen interest here.

Chemezov said under the helicopter manufacturing project, the first 40 will be produced in Russia and the rest will be made in India with transfer of technology and licence for production.

State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is a "front-runner" for partnering with Russia for the manufacture of Kamov Ka-226T helicopters -- which will eventually replace the vintage Cheetah and Chetak choppers -- under the 'Make in India' initiative.

The Russian offer to build the Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) in India received clearance in May from the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC).

"Talks are on to identify a partner and it is up to India to choose a partner," Chemezov told international media on the sidelines of Moscow Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS), 2015, an aero show and aviation exposition.

There were talks that apart from HAL, Anil Ambani group was also interested in partnering in the exercise.

Indian Ambassador to Russia P S Raghavan had recently told PTI that defence cooperation between the two countries continues to be vibrant despite India buying or proposing to buy military equipment from other countires including France from which it intends to procure Rafale fighter jets.

India is still dependent on Russia for nearly 60-70 per cent of its defence supplies.

Chemezov said work on building Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) was also on the right track.

The two countries had signed strategic partnership agreement during President Vladimir Putin's India visit in 2000.

Chemezov said talks were in progress for negotiating ship and submarine building and creating service centres to cater to the need for maintenance of equipment already supplied to India.

Chemezov also pitched for a visa-free regime among BRICS nations for seamless trade facilitation, a move that could boost Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 'Make in India' initiative.

"There is a need for a visa-free regime among members of the BRICS nations. Customs hurdles also need to be eased. I hope our leaders decide on it soon to boost trade and Industry in our countries," Chemezov Viktor Kladov, the Head of International Cooperation of

Rosoboronexport, which oversees all import and export related to Russia, when asked, said,"The ease of doing business has indeed improved in India. Earlier there were too many delays. Decisions are being taken faster at the government level."

He recalled how Modi had fast-tracked the helicopter deal after visiting the Russian stall at the aeroshow in Bangalore recently.

Kladov, however, insisted that manufacturing has to be undertaken on a large scale to be mutually beneficial and cost effective for the two countires.

He said negotiations were on for joint designing of submarines for production in India.

Chemezov said though Rostec Corporation has become one of the ten largest in the world, sanctions were hurting the Russian economy.

He said Rostec ended 2014 with a surplus of 34 billion roubles despite sanctions imposed on the country by western powers.

"We are tackling sanctions step by step. You (India) have survived sanctions for many years (after Pokhran nuclear blast). I am sure, given our long-standing partnership, India

will help us face these sanctions which are wrong. Though the US is largely unaffected,the European Union has begun to feel the pinch in terms of orders for goods they now cannot sell us," he said.

http://defencyclopedia.com/2015/05/22/ka-226t-russias-unique-helicopter-now-in-india/

Russia, India in Talks on Making Ammo for Smerch Rocket Launchers

Russia and India are discussing possible cooperation in the production of ammunition for Russia-made Smerch multiple rocket launchers in India.

NIZHNY TAGIL (Sputnik) — Moscow and New Delhi are in talks on producing ammunition for Russia-made Smerch multiple rocket launchers in India, Russia’s Techmash Group said Wednesday.

"Talks are continuing, the Indian side is considering an appropriate form of cooperation, whether it will be a joint venture or co-production. It is still in the negotiating state," Techmash Group Deputy CEO Dmitry Rytenkov told RIA Novosti at the international Russia Arms Expo RAE-2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia.

India has dozens of Smerch rocket launchers in service. In August 2012, Russia’s arms exports agency Rosoboronexport signed a memorandum of cooperation with the Indian Defense Ministry to build Smerch ammo production and maintenance facilities on the Indian territory.

The two countries have been cooperating on several military production projects, including a fifth-generation fighter jet.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150909/1026791937.html#ixzz3lHMTE9ga

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150603/1022909517.html

http://sputniknews.com/world/20150922/1027358225.html
Werewolf is right. India sits on two seats regarding this. I think it may be in Russias best interest to sell to both India and Pakistan and just cut its ties to India short. India proven to not only be a benedict arnold, but also proven unreliable in these current times. India is quick to buddy buddy it up with the people who sanctioned it not long ago.

Screw India. Hope they end up in same position as Russia is (again) with no help at all. And get booted out of any further economic groups.

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/military/20150603/1022909517.html

http://sputniknews.com/world/20150922/1027358225.html
Werewolf is right. India sits on two seats regarding this. I think it may be in Russias best interest to sell to both India and Pakistan and just cut its ties to India short. India proven to not only be a benedict arnold, but also proven unreliable in these current times. India is quick to buddy buddy it up with the people who sanctioned it not long ago.

Screw India. Hope they end up in same position as Russia is (again) with no help at all. And get booted out of any further economic groups.

Rage quitting would be a very foolish move.
India does not join the US-camp, but such move would encourage it.

Its already too late. India is showing its true face. I am not saying rage quitting, but suggesting that Russia should sell Su-35S to pakistan, especially if Pakistan buys a fair amount of them. And disregard Indias opinion and state "its alright for you to sit on two seats, and sign military agreements with the enemy, whom sells weapons to your enemy and you also buy from, amd we cant sell to your enemy?"

Put India in the tough spot.

Maybe Russia could obtain other contracts in Pakistan as well, like civil ones (energy, agriculture, transportation, etc) where Russian products will be more favorable due to high population capital and under development that is Pakistan.

sepheronx wrote:Its already too late. India is showing its true face. I am not saying rage quitting, but suggesting that Russia should sell Su-35S to pakistan, especially if Pakistan buys a fair amount of them. And disregard Indias opinion and state "its alright for you to sit on two seats, and sign military agreements with the enemy, whom sells weapons to your enemy and you also buy from, amd we cant sell to your enemy?"

I disagree. India has been showing a strong trend to Russification of its weapons. Look at the stuffs before 1991. How many Russian weapons were in Indian Armed Forces ? And look at today. How many Russian weapons are there ?

Before 1991, India virtually had no Russian weapons. Reason is because India took part in Western side during the Korean War, that made Russian be largely skeptical against India, disregard of the increasing pro-Russian stance of India during the cold war.

However, at the late period of XX century, India made a drastic move of Russification. First is several MiG-21/23s. Then a batch of T-72s. And then, hundreds of T-90s and T-72s formed the bulk of Indian armoured forces, completely kicked the *** of Western tanks.

And look at the air forces. From several MiGs in 197x, now India has 200 Su-30MKI as the bulk of its air force. And several couples of MiG-29Ks for its aircraft carrier which was bough from Russia. Mirage and Harrier are shadowed by Su and MiGs.

Look at the infantry. Although INSAS used NATO cartridges, the design of INSAS is essentially a copy of AK. And somehow AK 7.62mm also makes the way into Indian army.

The reason for all issues about Western or Western-style weapon contracts (Rafale, Tejas, Arjun, Apache...) is that, these contracts are merely pie-in-the-sky to court with the pro-West faction in Indian politics. The pro-West faction in India is still strong and therefore the pro-Russia faction has to make compromise, by allowing Western ABCXYZ contracts to be signed in exchange for the cooperation of all sides in the goverment.

But all these Western contracts after all are just pie-in-the-sky. Look at Rafale. From 126 pieces it decreased to 36, and we won't know whether it can decrease more. Look at Jaitapur. It began in late 2010, but today it is late 2015 and I don't know whether it can be finished or not.

It is clear that Russian weapons have proven its effectiveness in India and Western weapons can only enter India in dream.

All Iam saying is that if India can get a free pass by sitting on two chairs, then Russia can get a free pass to sell to both sides like US does.

Pakistan is also under developed and tries for years to get on Russias good side, after soviet union and even still under heavy US influence.  Pakistan may have a lot to offer especially in civillian projects.  Already Russia is building the gas pipeline from Karachi to Lahor/Islamabad. Eventually they will end up ordering nuclear power plants, gasification plants, agricultural equipment and even automobiles. Plenty more opportunity.  And Russia has a lot to offer.

There are groups in Pakistan whom question the authorities decision on buying Chinese tech and energy equipment that China doesnt even buy for themselves and even stated why not buy from Russia this stuff? I heared these type of comments when my wife watches pakistani news and she explains to me.

Eventually, Russia will probably be given very lucrative deals from Pakistan. So Russia should get involved regardless if India is upset or not. They cant have everything their own way.