Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

Do I smell decision making centers burning to a crisp?

As for the obvious... of course the high-value target rats are hidden well and protected. It's gonna take more than for show air strikes but it's a start and good PR regarding threat follow-through . You don't want to be an empty threat buffoon.... which unfortunately Russia has become throughout this conflict... specially when bluffing about getting hit in your own territory.

Ned86 wrote:

limb wrote:

There is an extreme shortage of loitering munitions and forpost and orion  size armed drones. Lancets are barely used. theres not enough drones for counterbattery work. Iran has those in larger amounts. Theres only 1-3 orions being built every month, which is completely insufficient for a 2000km frontline.

Iran is a turbocuck US asslickinging nation if it refuses to sell drones to Russia.

They keep saying the same for cruise missiles and Iskander missiles since March, but yet they keep flying almost every day.
Two things you'll never have a shortage in Russia are weapons and cold.

For those claiming Russia doesn't use smart weapons -->

SHow me true himars destruction and then we can talk.
And nobody have said Russia don't have some  precision guided weapons , the problem is they are very few of them , and 99.8% of the attacks By Russian airforce on Ukraine artillery are unguided shit.  Only very very  few strikes and handful or bit more, of the totality use ultra precision  with  realtime tvcamera traking .

Nobody say Clown , that Russia don't have advanced missiles.  they have very few of them ,likely full of NATO or japanese electronics . What is being said ,is that in real practice Russian airforce is outdated the way it can really fight in a consistent day by day in a  strongly defended airspace ,as almost 100% of all real wars Russian airforce will face in Europe versus NATO or when NATO supply their enemies..

The video posted by me , tells the true,
That Russian airforce is Insufficient of everything.  
Is not an airforce designed to fight real big wars , only good against terrorist in syria that don't have air defenses. But in a sustained long war , Russia was very ill prepared. and Master chess Putin is to blame for it , only him.. because he is the one that assign the budget for military .

-That RUssia rely too much on soviet era weapons and hardware ,which is TRUE.
This unguided bullshit that Russia use , against very important Ukraine targets , Like Ukraine artillery ,or their air defenses is the reason they can't achieve air superiority . the reason why civilians are dying in donetk , the reason why the army suffer so many casualties  .

BECAUSE THE TRUE CLOSE AIR SUPPORT FROM THE RUSSIAN AIRFORCE ,that is supposed to provide protection to its ground troops from Ukraine drones ,is VERY POOR Almost non existant.

and you see the FAT LAZY minister ,when  he show "Evidence" the airforce is doing "something"
99.7% of the time ,what they release is a chicken coward airforce , that throws unguided Rockets
with an hellicopter or su-25 ,then the  pilots scared ,turn around 180 degrees as if their lives depended on it ,  without even knowing if their proyectiles hit anything at all .. So how in hell Russian airforce can know the strikes truly destroy enemy positions?   or what they hit?

HE  also shows ,how mediocre is Russia images of their optics in their most available strike drones.
low resolution shit. This is UNACEPTABLE ,for an Airforce . In 21 century. Russia have done a very poor job in the modernization of its airforce. and the few missiles they have to do high precision strikes with video will not change of this.. At this rate in a month of two ,Russia will have to fight with sticks and stones ,if they continue losing so much ammo , because ukraine  high precision long range artillery is destroying them.

Unguided STUPID SHIT , can only be acceptable if it is for scorch earth tactics , to deny an area to enemy of if there is large concentration of enemies there.  BUT IMPORTANT TARGETS , like very important moving targets,  like long range artillery ,like air defenses , need to be DESTROYED and  do it quick and Fast and don't play chicken games.

So the video is 100% correct . RUssia relays too much in soviet era unguided weapons to fight Ukraine ,and is on paper a modern airfore , but in real practice ,  Russian airforce rely too much ,almost exclusively on soviet outdated junk..  

They very very rarely , have confirmation in real time of  the things they strike..
They for example claimed destroyed HIMARS.. but it was a truck with a 777 artillery , not himars.
The trucks  used by HIMARS and 777 artillery are very similar.. but because the FAT lazy incompetent MOD of Russian military ,almost don't use modern weapons , with video feedback of exactly what they hit , so they don't really know how effective was their attack.  

What is even more astonishing ridiculous ,is that in SYria ,the russian airforce , yes did not used much precision weapons    ,but at least there ,they compensated ,because was CARPET BOMBING  , with very powerful big 500kg bombs ,in REAL TIME  ,to make sure nothing survive ,right at the moment enemy forces were spot from above their positions ,above the enemy heads.  Using a system ,that provided a near precision strikes but with a tons of bombs ,to bomb to hell the enemy positions ,But this is not happening anymore in Ukraine..

SU-34 was bombing non stop carpet  bombing terrorist positions right above their heads with big bombs.. the closest thing i have seen in Ukraine is the hellicopters using unguided rockets weak shit ,
and from far away distances. that they don't really know if it hit at all.  or the stupid new tactics they now came of using small drones to drop toy grenades on their positions..  IF this is how Russian airforce going to fight NATO?  God have mercy of Russia then. Because what Russia airforce is showing in ukraine is an amazing weakness.. to be in  real practice a paper tiger Airforce.


So carpet bombing right on time , exactly above enemy heads, right on time , in the perfect moment
they moving.  With visual confirmation of what they strike , This is galaxies away superior ,to the shit they doing now in Ukraine. of chicken running away from the air space as  soon they enter. and using unguided bullshit for  important moving targets.Israel airforce  would have done million times better  job ,in ukraine , using ultra precision strikes with real time tv  camera smashing Ukraine air defenses.


in short the Russian Army , The Russian airforce needs to do major reforms and completely go back to the drawing board , change those shitty tactics ,they have been mostly using for past months.
They can't carpet bomb in Ukraine  from a safe altitude ,,if they don't take  down those dam S-300s , or buks that it seems Russia just give up in destroying them.     Air defenses that israel airforce had no problem at all ,in dealing with their airforce, always hitting their intended targets with high precision. including storage depots  . so is kind  of irony ,that Russia needs to learn from a foreign nation how to target their own soviet era produced air defenses.  

It means that the quality of the bombing by Russian airforce was miles superior in Syria than in Ukraine. They don't used video or ultra precision bombs ,but at least they carpet bomb to hell the entire place.. but no longer they do this .. because of the missing elephant in the room, that Russian airforce don't have at all Air domination or air superiority over ukraine air space..  Is AIR CONTESTED , not air superiority , since Russian planes can't fly right above ukraine positions from medium altitude and bomb in peace as they could do in SYRIA.
Now observe how the russian airforce  throw a missile to a far away place in the  horizon and turn
the plane 180 degrees ,as if hell was ahead ,as if there was a no fly zone ahead ,they could not enter.

Russia AWACS and intel planes are missing in action too in Ukraine.
And the video explain also that it took Russia 6 missiles to strike one bridge in odessa. because
of misses.  Why would that be? because Russia is not using ultra precision missiles ,with real time video to correct the place the missile will strike?  

The RUssian AIRFORCE can be summarised this way..
INSUFFICIENT OF EVERYTHING... AIRFORCE  

Russia military was not well prepared to fight Ukraine ,and they had 8 fucking years to prepare.
Their Airforce is very very weak for close air support in moving targets ,is almost non existant.  The land forces are on its own if spot by a drone ,that are always flying above russian soldiers heads ,and then attacked by the drone and also attacked by artillery ,
Their best warship in black sea sinked to a third world nation , their cities fuel depots and military bases bombed by lonely drones , or mi-8 hellicopters. . Common ,this is bullshit . Paper tiger airforce.
this is what Russia is showing the world , showing to NATO ,that Russian airforce is very very weak.
And that is very inneficient highly mobile targets.. Like HIMARS for example , Like tanks ,like mobile air defenses,  when the enemy have too many tools to destroy enemy airforce.
5 months in the war and Russia still havent captured Kharkiv ,neither can't fly with its airforce in the rear of enemy frontlines.  it had to do it all with cruise missiles.. that neither provide information of what they really hit.

RUssia military is very poor in high tech electronics ,they depend a lot in western electronics and also their asian puppets ectronics too.. Instead of wasting near 100 billion of dollars in BULLSHIT epenis contest ,OLYMPICS ,football,instead of wasting money in very expensive  stupid disney parks in moscow. Putin could have used that money to properly modernize its airforce and get enough strike drones ,and not have its cities bombed by a third world nation so easily or have their soldiers leave behind ,mutilated their genitals ,after "tactical retreats" from ukraine.

There is the saying ...
Jack of all trades, master of none .  Russia Airforce is the most important weapon for Russia military , this is where the big money need to be invested . As good as Himars and Kalibrs cruise missiles are this kind of weapons are next to useless against moving targets on the ground. Airforce in other hand ,done right ,can be useful against all , moving and static targets. Priority should be Airforce and not big targets hard to defend warships , specially surface vessels that have no chance versus NATO. very visible targets that are hard to defend.. Only US can afford a large surface navy , because they have a large alliance , and have a lot  of airforce backing their navy.

Russia military should focus better in 3 things..
1) Airforce.
2)Airforce
3)airforce.
and after that SUbmarines for nuclear deterrence.

A true modern army , is one that  have a very powerful airforce , with full spectrum cover from air space to space domain. and that have plenty of drones from all sizes.. and prices , with plenty of ultra precision weapons ,  true close air support at all times , and heavy use of smart missiles with artificial intelligence. Instead of  Destroyers , Russia should get very high altitude Bombers with hypersonic weapons ,that strike from 25km altitude at least , things on the ground , that is more difficult to intercept.   Simply Russia military missed the boat on their modernization program. they  got their priorities wrong. Airforce should be the king ,Not artillery or surface navy and Energy weapons /laser guns, become the standard for defense. The good news is that Russia have very good scientist ,they are the true heroes ,saving Russia.. the bad news is that Russia is run by idiots.. by fools ,like Putin and his generals. So Russia scientific talent is unfortunately wasted,in the wrong way of development of Russia and its military. And this is not only said by me ,but by the Legendary Cosmonauts that resigned from their job in space ,in protest for Russia government (putin) being distracted in stupid things and not doing anything interesting in space.

Ned86 wrote:

Russians soldier and officer interviews from conflict zone state that in tactical engagements recon UAVs are Godsend. The results on the ground also show that Russian killchain is very short, you can cover target with artillery mission in 10 minutes or less after identifying. Russian interviews from Zvezda TV or even Patric Lancaster state that they ID the target and see if civilians are notin the risk zone and then do battle damage assessments on the go.

Not to mention live fire correction of mortars for small units when fire missions are more fluid and opportunistic.

I don’t know what other examples to show, but most of the heavy ordinance dropped on UA soldiers are under supervision of drones, there is no fog of war. Near the front. Satellites, sophisticated reconnaissance is nothing compared to thousands of cheap drones in the sky giving tactical awareness for those who actually matter.

Iraq war 2003 Air campaign by numbers



As we can see allied forces carried 40 thousand sorties in a month.
However, almost half was carried out by tanker, transport and "other" aircrafts.
About 20 thousands were combat sorties (~700 per day) of which almost all were done by US air force.
From 30.000 bombs, missiles and rockets dropped on Iraq

-68% was guided munition
-32% was unguided munition

Russia (acc. to Pentagon) flied 300-400 sorties per day.(info from March)
Later on there were report how russian air force doubled number of combat sorties per day.

more data here -->
https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Magazine%20Documents/2003/July%202003/0703Numbers.pdf

thegopnik wrote:

kill polish civilians, larping as nazi

actual NatSocs put you into a concentration camp for being a subhuman

get let out because the war is getting lost, expected to fight like a true patriot.

don't fight, immediately run away and flee to Western Germany

KGB finds you kills you like a rat

imagine how shit your country has to be to worship this manlet.

About mass killing of the ethnic Polish civilians:

http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944

ALAMO wrote:Well, the point is that it is exactly that, and was presented as a warehouse with M777 hit&destroyed.

I was addressing a wider perspective - Russian briefings are accurate, so if they claim that strikes HIMARS, they probably did.
Still don't get that hype, it is just like a Russian MOD stepping into Murican commercial campaign as an actor

Russian briefings are accurate

not they are not..
The Russian mosca destroyed did not sink because of "Accidental detonation of munition" .  
it was sink by Ukraine and they were bragging about hitting the warship with a cruise missiles hours before the Russian MOD admit they had "accident"

And neither the Russian MOD have proved they hit any HIMARS..

NOT HIMARS.



Finally we can put to rest ,Russian military MOD propaganda .

Russian airforce neither have air superiority as they claimed, Neither Ukraine defeat Russian airforce using saturation attacks , the lonely drone that blow out a fuel depot in ROSTOV Don , and the couple
of hellicopters and baykatar raids in Russian territory were not saturation attacks either , Only idiots makes excuses for incompetence of Russian military. There is propaganda in both sides.
So good luck for Russia when US supply more himars to ukraine ,the pain will increase significantly more for  Russian military. HIMARS Truck are very easy to hide , those trucks are used for many other things , like cargo transport too.. So from satellite Russia will not know the difference between a HIMARS or a Military cargo truck ,if they are not deployed. They did a good job , in building a long range artillery that can be difficult to spot its location.  Russia could learn something from NATO.
Russian MOD reports could be more accurate if they weren't using so much outdated weapons and had visual confirmation if Russia airforce was doing its job right ,and was using frequently TVcamera precision guided missiles. But they aren't. only once in a moon eclipse they show advance missiles after complains of public for so poor performance of their airforce.

caveat emptor wrote:

Ned86 wrote:
One thing I can't understand are all those people masturbating on drones and exaggerating their abilities while in the same time diminish Russian air defense, cruise missiles and hypersonic weapons.
Drones are toys nice to have, but they are not a gamechanger.

What I always keep pointing out is that drones we usually talk about can deliver small ammunition (10-15kg warhead) which is like a regular 155mm shell hit.
that can not match the hit made by Kh-29, Kh-59, Kh-22 or strategic Kh-101 missile and in reality it can not do much damage.

Remember the story about Switchblade drones being a gamechanger and yet we haven't seen or heard anything about their success.

In this type of war, where both sides have strong air defences, drones will not be as useful. Drones are very useful for reconnaissance, target detection and illumination. Also, in some limited strike role. Kamikaze drones will not be able to loiter for long periods of time above battlefield, since there's oversaturation with aa systems.
I will say that this constant talk about "game changers" is getting a bit long in the tooth already. They have their role, especially while working combined with arty, and that proves very useful in this conflict.
This forum became place where people from opposite sides look at everything through black and white lense. That's never a case in real life.

how mentally handicapped are people in this forum..
They themselves contradict in their same post..

So which one it is ? Not useful or very useful?
What a load of crap dude.. Drones are extremely necessary for winning wars today ,
look at the amermenian defeat , even with saturation of air defenses  by RUssia , they were humilited
by Israel loitering munition and turkish drones.  

All Russian artillery, air defenses, where smashed by strike drones and loitering munition.
yes they lost many ,but that's part of the game ,you use more , The trade ratio between cost /performmance is worth of it. They defeated Russia in armenia very easily . Iskanders ,S-300s,Tors,buks and many others , extremely useful against anything , all destroyed in armenia , how humiliating.. but hey Russia "was not" fighting there. They never send Special forces to help allies right? neither private military contractors.    Invisible ghost operated those smashed TOR air defenses that Armenia got in the last week of war ,and you dont need training for that.  

No weapon alone do all the job , but Drones will always win versus Any air defenses you can name in a duel.. A dozen of baykatar drones worth of  12 million dollars the entire package, can overwhelm a 500 million dollar S-400 defence , if used correctly ,They can fire many missiles ,  before they are intercepted if used correctly taking advantage of terrain . Strike drones are  designed to be used in Groups, like cruise missiles ,that they are usually intercepted but when used in group ,they can overwhelm the defences.. Just because Russia can intercept  a baykaktar doesn't  means they are "not very useful".  When used in groups in combined arms operations they can be very very deadly.
and even sink warships.. There is no more versatile weapon in the battlefield than strike drones. Most valuable weapon in the entire battle field..

Strike Drones are ULTRA PRECISION ARTILLERY but deployed in the air ,that constantly move   , and with superior view of the battlefield ,after they use all their missiles ,it can continue being used  to guide artillery while at the same time ,providing REAL  TIME monitoring of the battle field.. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

how can anyone question how amazingly important are drones yes of Any kind in modern warfare.
Heavy drones for striking and everything, incredibly cheap drones to be sacrificed and used in heavily defended zones to spy and to be used as decoys as target for enemy air defenses to hit them ,so you know their positions @garyb

JUST ONE super cheap kamikazi drone was used by Ukraine to destroy ROSTOV DON Fuel depot..  

How dare anyone question how extremely useful FOR EVERYTHING they are.
RUssia lost several fuel depots in most heavily defensed airspace in the planet ,deep inside Russia main land by Ukraine drones.  

Ohh noo drones not useful..  
Is ridiculous that anyone question how important is to have a strong drones force to this date.
This is what allows ukraine to spot Russian convoys and smash them , and provide locations to hit for artillery .useful to spot AMMO Storage of enemy in rear lines.. Stop with the mountains of excuses , and defending incompetence of Russia military. please. They are only winning in ukraine using brute force saturation of human lives , with artillery ,scorching entire cities , but  none of this tactics will work if Russia was fighthing today  israel airforce , you have smashed all those artillery very very easily. Those trench warfare of Ukraine versus Ruuussia would have never worked versus a competent airforce with plenty of high precision weapons with TVcamera guidance. .

Israel airforce have been smashing Syria for 8 years already and those piss poor air defenses of RUssia have done nothing.

[quote="Hole"]

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Did Putin accept Draghis resignation? 

Nah, the real story was "Ivana Trump dies at 73"
Well that's the headline on RT atm, Draghi only got 3rd spot.