Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
I heard  this as US soldiers to Iraq , taking into account US gay army it is even funnier

We already had enough interweb comedy from hardcore Iraq/Afghnistan US one man army veterans who have been crying like little girls after a warning shot by Iskander.

They are force fed with their own exceptionalism propaganda that they are blinded by it. Some god complex while they would probably get a beating by Ukrainian forces with their limited military power. It's just an entire theme- and amusement park of western highly trained special super duper heroes and redditors getting blasted to pieces and complaining that the enemy actually is able to shoot back.

They are used to air superiority and overwhelming power against weaker forces, while Vietnam already showed the results of their air superiority doctrine with thousands of lost Helicopters, hundreds of aircrafts, atrocities were almost standard approach, chemical weapons used out of desperation and ineffectiveness of the Air Force. Hell, they used UH-1 Helicopters as one-time use choppers in many places due to the lack of resupply routes in full knowledge that they couldn't sustain them with fuel and maintenance.

That part was mind boggling, to make such a decision just to have always the front stuffed up but not to care about establishing supply lines first. Somehow they still use this tactic in the Ukraine. And the West dares to create such propaganda garbage like in CoD, where every second Red Army soldier gets ammunition and needs to wait till some comrade with a rifle dies.

All the yapping about Russia using nuclear weapons is clearly an attempt by NATzO to threaten the use of nuclear weapons itself.
Putin has made it clear that Russia has been receiving not so veiled threats in back channel communications. The western
fake stream media propaganda chorus is there to push what the deciders want.

The notion that Russia would need to use nuclear weapons against the Kiev regime is ludicrous. Look at the performance of the
Kiev regime forces on the battlefield.

ALAMO wrote:
Dima is trying to play a badass with this kind of stupid comments, while he is only making a fool of himself.
What fuckin' nuclear weapon, for the gods of Ethernia?!?
This is putting yourself in a shoes of such idiots like Truss, as she was the one spreading her shit about "not hesitate to hit the button".
A nuclear weapon, against a 25 mln country, that is running on its last reserves?
Really!?!
So trying to play a macho, he is de facto presenting Russia as some weak and failed state. An Upper Volta with A-bomb.

It's always dangerous to make more than one threat to use force in case of an event.
With every word the threat losses it's significance.
Through out life I have learned a valuable lesson to not trust words but actions. Either conduct nuclear tests in combination of another country like North Korea to show off what nukes actually are, since many forgot that they are more than just relics of the cold war. I am not an expert nor do I have the real picture before me to know all the possible options to make most use of the situation, however, what I do understand is that every single word or action Russia takes can only count on the willing or unwillinges of PONOS countries being US's meatshield. The US wants war and they are escalating it until we have a hot war, that I am certain about.

It's just a question who will chicken out first amongst the PONOS countries.

I am certain that Turkey will not do anything that will harm it's own position of the pan-turkish alliance and leading role of sphere of influence just for the US to have one more meatgrinder at Russia's border. I am sure the Poles are stupid enough to believe in promises of the US. It will be interesting next year.

Use of nuclear weaponry in this stage of the conflict would hurt cooperative ties between Russia, China, Turkey, Israel, India and so on so it is a 'last resort' weapon with great consequences. In this stage absolutely nonsense to even mention except for propaganda purposes.

With both gas pipelines surprisingly damaged - in whose interest one might say as Russia can simply close all valves to cut off delivery, I bet Europe / Germany would like to have kept options open regardless of current situation, so the only winner here would be the US increasing reliance on LNG export - tension on specifically the EU are severely increasing. It's hard to return the favor as the majority of gas production in the US comes from land, with only a very small portion retrieved from drilled wells in the Gulf of Mexico.

Covertly sabotaging LNG transports or the Alaskan pipeline is then an option to shift the balance, but you will enter dangerous territory there. Overall I think we already entered a somewhat soft phase of mutual destruction but done more covertly and politically.

Werewolf, just one correction, that is, the US lost over 3700 planes in Vietnam...

JohninMK wrote:It will be interesting for the US and NATO to see if it works for real. It is after all just a means of launching AMRAAMs from a truck not a plane.

Ukraine Confirms Receipt Of Longer-Range Missiles It's Long Sought From US

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2022 - 03:00 AM

Despite this past week which has seen US officials echo growing concerns over Moscow's ratcheting nuclear rhetoric - which Ukraine too has said it is taking seriously - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is now boasting his country has received a new, advanced US missile system.

He confirmed in a fresh interview with CBS’s "Face the Nation" that the National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS) has been long sought after by Kyiv, but previously in the war repeatedly denied:

Zelensky thanked the U.S. for the system as well as the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems it’s received, but added that his troops "absolutely need the United States to show leadership and give Ukraine" additional air defense systems it has requested.

Ukraine began urgently asking for transfer of the NASAMS by early summer, but the Biden administration as reluctant to provide missile systems with longer range, concerned they would be used to strike inside Russian territory and thus drag Washington and Moscow into direct cofronation.

According to a CNN report in June, "Ukrainian officials have asked for the missile defense system, known as a NASAMS system, given the weapons can hit targets more than 100 miles away, though the Ukrainian forces will likely need to be trained on the systems, a source said."

But that's apparently no longer enough of a concern to halt these longer range systems, despite the Kremlin repeatedly warning that attacks on its territory with foreign weapons are a severe red line.

According to The Hill: The Biden administration approved the shipment of six of the missile systems late last month as part of a nearly $3 billion lethal aid package to bolster Kyiv as it battles the Kremlin invasion.  

The NASAMS are considered "medium-range" systems, but are considered an improvement over prior missiles sent to Ukraine, which typically had a max range of 30 to 50 miles. The NASAMS are capable of defending against aircraft, cruise missiles, as well as drones and were designed by the US and Norway.

But Zelensky in the CBS interview didn't waist time asking for more, as has been typical, saying that amid his forces achieving success in the ongoing eastern counteroffensive they urgently need more tanks, artillery, and more missiles.



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-confirms-receipt-longer-range-missiles-its-long-sought-us

NASAMS design and features

The NASAMS air defence system features network centric, open architecture that provides increased survivability against electronic countermeasures. The missile system can engage 72 targets simultaneously in active and passive modes. The primary weapon of the system is AIM-120 AMRAAM.

Raytheon MPQ-64F1 Sentinel high-resolution, 3D pencil beam surveillance radar is fitted to the NASAMS to detect and track the targets. The missile system is also fitted with AMRAAM launchers and a passive electro-optic (EO) and infra-red (IR) sensor, hard-real-time communication network and an embedded and standalone mission planning tool.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/national-advanced-surface-to-air-missile-system-nasams/

If they do that, then its time Russia considered it got some "disaffected Muslim groups" to sink a US Nimitz class carrier and/or level one of 780 US bases placed (usually without consent) overseas.
Right now its a full on war by the United Snakes, posing as a proxy war, the ultimate in American Establishment cowardice.

TASS

Twoo MiG-29s belonging to the Ukroshistan Air Force were destroyed. 50 VSU fighters went to the eternal hunting ground near Nikolaev, 100 near Zaporozhye (Gepard regiment), and over 150 belonging to the 81st Airmobile Brigade were destroyed.

famschopman wrote:
With both gas pipelines surprisingly damaged - in whose interest one might say as Russia can simply close all valves to cut off delivery, I bet Europe / Germany would like to have kept options open regardless of current situation, so the only winner here would be the US increasing reliance on LNG export - tension on specifically the EU are severely increasing. It's hard to return the favor as the majority of gas production in the US comes from land, with only a very small portion retrieved from drilled wells in the Gulf of Mexico.

Covertly sabotaging LNG transports or the Alaskan pipeline is then an option to shift the balance, but you will enter dangerous territory there. Overall I think we already entered a somewhat soft phase of mutual destruction but done more covertly and politically.

Not really for this thread but to close it off here. Not only the US benefits but Brussels gets more power and any other gas seller including Norway and the gas speculators, all of whom have interests in keeping the price high which this achieves.

Also, apart from the US pipelines, the North Sea is covered with them. The UK will be an obvious target.

I see only 6 rockets in the NASAMS system so just send a dozen cheap suicide drones to overwhelm the system and its gone. I doubt they have implemented proper multi-layer air defense coverage.

Cost of system is 50Mio and each missile (AIM-120 AMRAAM) almost 1Mio each, so the return on investment for sending larger numbers of drones is there.

According to Rybar the Wehrmacht has now managed to setup pontoon crossings and establish a bridgehead east of Liman as well, near Belogorovka, and the town is now very close to being cut off and potentially surrounded, not looking good at all, we might have to abandon Liman. Fucking disaster, as the civilians do not seem to have been evacuated. Also the way they keep managing to cross the river with impunity is infuriating.

Mir wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:Werewolf, just one correction, that is, the US lost over 3700 planes in Vietnam...

10 000+ actually but not all in combat.

They lost over 3700 planes and over 5600 helicopters. Well, it seems to me that the whining is starting again on the forum, so let's see it off.

Podlodka77 wrote:Well, it seems to me that the whining is starting again on the forum, so let's see it off.

You have been trying to justify the current **** ups with pointless statistics from a US war that happened 60 years ago and has nothing to do with the current conflict , so please bare with my whining for just a little bit.

Field Marshal Serberus, no one addressed you, so you have cooled down a bit. Placing a picture of a certain military leader does not make you a military leader and you are not in the field around Liman. Are you a member of the forum or are you a participant on the front ? And the fact that we wrote Werewolf, Mir and I has nothing to do with you

kvs wrote:All the yapping about Russia using nuclear weapons is clearly an attempt by NATzO to threaten the use of nuclear weapons itself.
Putin has made it clear that Russia has been receiving not so veiled threats in back channel communications.   The western
fake stream media propaganda chorus is there to push what the deciders want.  

The notion that Russia would need to use nuclear weapons against the Kiev regime is ludicrous.   Look at the performance of the
Kiev regime forces on the battlefield.  

I don't think he meant ukro-hai hordes . To me its warning about NATO not to "take Odessa and Transnistria under international protection" . Or sinking Russian ships as some imaginary red line was crossed.

Podlodka77 wrote:Field Marshal Serberus, no one addressed you, so you have cooled down a bit. Placing a picture of a certain military leader does not make you a military leader and you are not in the field around Liman. Are you a member of the forum or are you a participant on the front ? And the fact that we wrote Werewolf, Mir and I has nothing to do with you

So the whining comment right after my report about the disastrous situation around Liman had nothing to do with me? Ok

Anyway same question to you, are you a military leader or a forum member? what military expertise do you have to classify the current loss of territory around Liman and the city about to be cut off still full of civilians, as not a big deal and everything going according to plan , when all evidence points to the contrary?

We are all entitled to our opinions regardless of our level of expertise  and i am just exercising it…thats kind of the point of a forum.

I'm just a member of the forum and I'm well aware of it, unlike you Field Marshal Serberus. You are nobody and nothing, just like me, you are irrelevant. You lead neither politics nor the army, but you write as if you know everything. I have nothing to explain to you, your team is Limb, Arghangelsk and that team. I have written several times that the match is played until the referee blows the whistle.

The situation in the Liman direction
as of 13.00 September 27, 2022

Allied forces repel attacks on Liman from Ozerny and Shchurovo.

A unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has entrenched itself in the village of Novoye. From the bridgehead near Redkodub - Novy, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trying to build on success in the direction of the village of Zelenaya Dolina and the Zherebets River in order to surround the Liman Group of Forces from the north and go to the rear of the troops defending the city of Liman.

On the western flank, the BARS-13 army reserve unit successfully repelled all enemy attacks on Novoselovka, Drobyshevo and Shandrigolovo.

East of the Liman, units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine set up several pontoon crossings between Kriva Luka and Belogorovka, created a bridgehead on the northern bank of the Seversky Donets, transferred equipment to the bridgehead and began preparations for an active attack on the positions of the allied forces in this area

Enemy mobile reconnaissance groups on light armored vehicles conducted reconnaissance in combat of the positions of the Russian Armed Forces in Yampol and Torskoy. The Kremennaya-Liman road is exposed to fire and is unsafe.

The last safe supply route for the Liman Group of Forces runs along the Svatovo-Makeevka-Terny-Liman road. The route is under the threat of blocking the Armed Forces of Ukraine both from the west from the side of Novy and from the south from the side of the Seversky Donets.

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WTF

Also the Altius but also just making the first models not in service yet.

Good opportunity for testing though...

Even if they just fly a stripped down model to soak up some BUKs and S-300s while using some ARMs to try to hit anything shooting at it using a radar.

The Altius being a long endurance drone for reconnaissance and the S-70 for quickly striking targets; mostly in the role as a bomber.

Agree that the Altius is a HALE or MALE, while S-70 is a wingman type drone for operating with fighters, or perhaps used on its own as a strike weapon... a sort of reusable cruise missile that can hit multiple targets and return with recon information about what it saw.

Concerning their use in the Ucrainian operation, basically till now Russia mainly used reconnaissance drones (they have many different types of those).

But that just makes sense... larger MALE and HALE types are horribly vulnerable to enemy AD and air power and are worth the risk of shooting down because they are a threat and are not super cheap.

Right now when Kiev is trying to rush Russian held positions with raw numbers and their AD damaged and concentrated mainly near military positions sending suicide drones will either cause serious damage and therefore force them to spread their AD to try to cover that... spreading it thinly and making it harder to hide, or they keep their AD with their forces leaving their flanks and rear exposed for drones to hit supply columns and ammo and fuel and weapon dumps.

Either way now is the time to use such drones, which would have been less useful before.

The early use of drones was to correct artillery fire and they appear to have done an outstanding job. Special forces obviously would also have their own drones.

These Iranian drones are very noisy... and I suspect that is on purpose.... it attracts enemy fire revealing firing positions to better eyes operating much higher up, and it would have a serious psychological effect too.

Now thanks to the Iranian drones they have a much cheaper alternative to attack aircrafts and cruise missile strikes. Of course it is a different type of weapons, and they cannot substitute long range missiles and real aviation but they cover a useful niche previously "neglected".

They have been using the odd suicide drone already... it is only recently it made sense to shift to more intensive use of such drones.

The denial that Iran sold Russia drones but now Russia has them in mass production suggests to me that they were able to deny any purchase because such purchases and licence production agreements happened months ago.

There is a larger version of Orion, called Sirius or something like that and also Helios. Both are in test phase. I would bet that Kronshtadt will come up first with serial model, as they showed more capapble than Sokol.

Pretty sure they would be keen to get a prototype into a realistic testing environment as quickly as they can...

Sooner or later we will probably see an APS of some sort that can use small TOR-like missiles that will by launch at incoming missiles. Sounds like fantasy but I think it is what it will come to.

They want them for ground vehicles to defend against artillery shells and artillery rockets so mounting them in bombers and fighters to defend them from SAMs and AAMs wouldn't be that far away... so helicopters next?

It´s more likely that in a few years manned attack helis will only use stuff like Izd. 305 + Vikhr or other ATGM´s in the same class while the use of unguided rockets against infantry will be delegated to heli drones. At least against near-peer enemies.

Area targets are area targets... if a helicopter needs to engage troops spread out in a field then unguided rockets and cannon fire are still the weapons of choice... lofting them for standoff range against peer enemies seems to work.

The ballistic range of the rockets is a known quantity and their digital maps and the known coordinates of the enemy means you could loft rockets easily enough to bracket large area targets easily enough.

Those box shaped rocket pods could be designed in the fuselage and thick wing of a large aircraft so they can be extended to fire or to reload and retracted for zero drag in flight...

Edward Snowden is a Russian citizen. Very good decision. If the West had more Snowden and Assange things would be fine.

They are both patriots... rather than ignore criminal activity they revealed it to the public in the hopes it would be dealt with properly... but clearly those with blood on their hands had powerful strings in their hands so the criminal activity continues unpunished and those trying to fix the west are demonised by the west.

Agreed, can't believe that bitch from Sky News also hasn't been banned either. Rosenberg should've been kicked out years ago. Why is Russia allowing foreign agents like them to still operate in the country while the West bans any pro-Russian media?

Well I suspect part of the issue is like Navalny... the best way to deal with them is let them speak and reveal their true nature... but snakes can be mesmerising...

I get that I do, because it's repeated ad infinitum on all blogs and on the forum

But it's just not true...

All these MOD statements about "hundreds of fighters killed" do not add up to getting pushed out of Kharkov

Look at the battle of Stalingrad... if the Soviets had just sent in all their forces at once the Germans would not have taken very much of the city at all and likely would have sent even more reinforcements to support the attack and of course holding the city would mean they could hammer it over and over from the air killing rather more soviet soldiers.

The point is that they drip fed troops into the battle and let the Germans gradually commit to taking the city piece by piece till only tiny parts remained... and then they used their forces they had been building up all this time to encircle the enemy forces now trapped in the city... no food no ammo no support in the middle of winter... so they did the only thing they could do at those temperatures with no food no ammo no fuel... they surrendered.

U.S will support both Pakistan & China if they go to war with India. If past is precedent then China will receive a lot of support from U.K as well.

The US wouldn't support China in anything at all, and there are more potential buyers of blue jeans and motorcycles in India than there are in Pakistan... they flipped on that choice a while back.

What they wont do is let India become much more developed and independent...

Exactly. This sounds like the excuse that the raid and retreat around kiev permanently pinned down and destroyed ukrainian troops which would make donbass much easier to take. Well, what a lie that was.

You are the liar.... there was never any claim the raid around Kiev would permanently do anything... the point of the raid was to pin down forces near there that could otherwise be sent to the Donbass because back then they had armour and they had fuel and if they weren't busy where they were they could have been sent to increase the strength of the Orc forces in the Donbass.

After a few months of taking out armour and fuel dumps and ammo dumps it was clearly decided that the Orc army had lost much of its mobility and it was safe to fall back to positions that could not be shelled by the Orcs.

BTW are russians using DRGs too to ambush troops behind enemy lines? Why can't several spetsnaz DRGs infiltrate around slavyansk and use the assistance of pro-russians there to destroy ukrainian SAMs and artillery?

Why didn't they think of that?

You really think the Russians are fuckwits don't you...

Most of the time the Ka-52 carries 2 pods (40 S-8 rockets) + a few ATGM´s. A 3,5t heli drone should be able to carry the same ammount of weapons and could operate closer to the frontline. Every regiment could have one unit for direct fire support. Which would take some years, of course.

And get shot down by the first stinger...

Mark Sleboda said on a Sputnik interview that the biggest concern for NATO jumping is a move on Odessa.

**** HATO... there was a time for talking but they thought using force was their way forward...

I'm just saying , when it happens , it will be the biggest moment of tension as the last valuable piece is taken off the board.

They made their own bed... who cares if they refuse to lie in it.

For nothing, we all write about Odessa, Kharkov, Nikolaev if the Russians have no plan to take those areas. It is not a problem to occupy them, but the problem is how many people will remain in those cities.

There might be a couple of million expats in Russia that want to go home to a safe Ukraine with a future... something the west effectively stole from them.

"Provocative" is to have HATO nazis at a 100% Russian city like Odessa...

Or to turn Sevastopol into a HATO naval base...

The effect is, that it is almost impossible to lock on to it with any MANPADS the Ukrainians have.

Then they don't have Iglas, because they are quite good against such targets...

Now, the bulk of the Russian optical lens production bases on the supplies of optical grade glass from China.

Don't believe that. Russian optics are rather good, their glass technology is very good too... the glass blocks the Mi-28 uses for its canopy can withstand direct hits from 14.5mm HMGs placed less than 10 metres from the side... no penetrations and smooth internal surface of the material.

It appears that both Nord Stream I and II have been sabotaged and will require a rebuild to make functional again.
This is not a side show.

Doesn't matter... I would expect Russia to cease delivery of gas to all EU countries supporting Kiev with money and weapons about the middle of this winter.

Dima is trying to play a badass with this kind of stupid comments, while he is only making a fool of himself.
What fuckin' nuclear weapon, for the gods of Ethernia?!?

Most western people think war is something that happens on different continents and that they are safe. Well prices going up and "enemy" countries talking about using nuclear weapons they actually have might get some results.

The notion that Russia would need to use nuclear weapons against the Kiev regime is ludicrous. Look at the performance of the
Kiev regime forces on the battlefield.

A string of tactical nuclear explosions along its western border with Poland might seal up some leaking threats to Russian forces...

Use of nuclear weaponry in this stage of the conflict would hurt cooperative ties between Russia, China, Turkey, Israel, India and so on so it is a 'last resort' weapon with great consequences. In this stage absolutely nonsense to even mention except for propaganda purposes.

When the other side thinks they can continue to escalate sometimes it makes sense to remind them where that leads to.

The old cowboy analogy fits this... the western model of nuclear conflict expect things to start with harsh words and then a few slaps and then punches and then chairs being thrown and bottles and knives and then finally they go for their pistols.

The Soviet model points out that if that is the case what is to stop the other guy going for his gun when you have both your hands on that chair you are holding above your head to throw at him?

Real fights in the wild west had nothing to do with fights in hollywood movies... you drew your gun first, you shot first and you survived and then you made up the story about him shooting first after getting his gun and firing a shot from that too before the sheriff arrived.

It's hard to return the favor as the majority of gas production in the US comes from land, with only a very small portion retrieved from drilled wells in the Gulf of Mexico.

Stop selling Uranium fuel to them... their nuclear power plants rely on it.

I see only 6 rockets in the NASAMS system so just send a dozen cheap suicide drones to overwhelm the system and its gone. I doubt they have implemented proper multi-layer air defense coverage.

Once you locate the launcher that is the perfect plan, or low flying cruise missiles.

All radar would need to be engaged too on a regular basis to limit its effectiveness.

You have been trying to justify the current **** ups with pointless statistics from a US war that happened 60 years ago and has nothing to do with the current conflict , so please bare with my whining for just a little bit.

An enemy in the Orcs current position over extending itself and attacking... what is not to like...

I don't think he meant ukro-hai hordes . To me its warning about NATO not to "take Odessa and Transnistria under international protection" . Or sinking Russian ships as some imaginary red line was crossed.

That is what I took it to mean too... HATO intervention, either against Odessa or trying to attack the Black Sea fleet.

So the whining comment right after my report about the disastrous situation around Liman had nothing to do with me? Ok

You called it... if you think a comment about whining after your post whining was directed at you then are you not agreeing with him?

What is so critical about this Liman that the entire conflict hinges on who occupies it this winter?

WTF

You mentioned allied forces repelling attacks against Liman multiple times... so what exactly the problem... let them fixate on that place and lose men and material trying to take it... this is snake island all over again...

Backman wrote:https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/27384

The former general director of Roskosmos, Dmitry Rogozin,   may head the new embassy, Vedomosti reports. @kedmi

@PapaDragon: Here you go, your prayers are being answered!

My main issue with the current situation around Liman is that it is getting trickier with every Passing day to get those BARS guys out safely. Assuming Rybar has the correct info that is.

Maybe they don't have to leave it at all, but for that scenario to Materialise, sooner rather than later the Ukrainians are gonna either have to run out of meat or run into some more Russians.

Podlodka77 wrote:I'm just a member of the forum and I'm well aware of it, unlike you Field Marshal Serberus. You are nobody and nothing, just like me, you are irrelevant. You lead neither politics nor the army, but you write as if you know everything. I have nothing to explain to you, your team is Limb, Arghangelsk and that team. I have written several times that the match is played until the referee blows the whistle.

I comment and form my opinions based on reports by sources that have previously reported accurate information, and at no point in any of my comments did I attempt to claim a i am some kind of military leader or have expert level of knowledge behind my opinions, so you can kindly **** off with that bs.

If the Wehrmacht successfully establishing two bridgeheads over the severny donetsk river to threaten cutting off Liman , the DNR troops and civilians doesn't concern you, or make you angry thats fine. Keep living in la la land.
We are here to discuss the SMO and I will make comments about the good and bad from our side, you can keep bitching and moaning at everyone who doesn't follow your blindfold approach, all good.
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Exit poll data: 89% of voters in the Kherson region voted for joining Russia. In the Zaporozhye region, reunification with the Russian Federation was supported by 95% of the residents who took part in the referendum.