Russian special military operation in Ukraine #39

The Polish Leopards the hohols are getting are of the L2A4 variant with the old B-armor.
3BM42 alone is overkill.

I think if the latest western tanks come into the conflict many peoples bubbles will burst. This war shows that certain key technologies made a big difference but beyond a certain point you just get diminishing returns. APS is the next leap of important (and very expensive!) technology that will be focused on and procured.

But even beyond this the biggest importance (bigger by far than the latest wunderwaffle tech) is numbers, and good tactical and strategic use of those numbers, combined with well trained infantry.

I will add on a side note that a big discovery of this conflict is 98.9 percent of "osint experts" and devotees are idiots, or at best midwits that think more of their abilities than they should. I have been sorely disappointed in a few who I thought were sharper and more thoughtful than the rest. Kinda sad.

Arrow wrote " ..The aims of SMO , was denazification , demilitarazation , stopping shelling of donbas , neutrality of Ukrs.... " None of these aims can be achieved without the complete defeat of Ukrs and long term Russian presence in entire country . It is clear now that this will truly take many years to achieve , and that in reality it may not be achieved . A more realistic aim would simply be to liberate the Russian speaking majority areas by military means . And live with a Nazi , nuke armed and NATO state entity to the West . Although and hopefully without ongoing skirmishes and shelling . But even this last desirable outcome , may not exist , given the nature of forces involved . I used to think SMO could be achieved by other means , that talks must exist at some point , that political upheaval will remove Nazis , elections can take place and diplomatic talk does no harm ........

But even beyond this the biggest importance (bigger by far than the latest wunderwaffle tech) is numbers, and good tactical and strategic use of those numbers, combined with well trained infantry.

Ukraine only mounted resistance in this war due to numbers. Not particularly well trained or equipped. Not super duper nato communications or any of that bullshit. Just numbers. Nato took a whole country hostage. And are constantly shipping bodies to the front to dig in.

I don't know why Russia was so cheap with the troops in this war. They have 700,000 active military. The whole thing could have been different if they sent more troops

Ukraine is still standing and will fight even if country is ruined economically and 14 millions of its people are displaced.

Costs on Russian side too are huge - no matter how much manpower and equipment is sent into the battle it is not enough. Not one strategic goal so far Russia was able to complete.

Ukraine is now strategic partner of Western military alliances - in my eyes no one could predict that development 1 year ago.

You try to paint some sort of parity in the stalemate, except hundreds of billions of dollars from the west has been pumped into the Ukraine with very little to show for it, while for Russia the almost complete separation from the western economy has almost been achieved and they are not a destroyed husk the west claimed they would be.

It seems most of the rest of the world does not give a shit about the Ukraine or the west which is vastly more important than any results on the ground, except on the ground Russia is having steady progress too and has expanded its borders by adding four new regions to its Federation.

Well yes Russia is aiming for marathon - it has no other options. Originally plan was to crush Ukraine in a couple of months and install pro Russian government and finish it - did not go well.

Which is why you are always so wrong... you think Russia is America... destroy Mexico that is too friendly with Russia or China and install an America friendly government...

The US turned the Ukraine into a threat to Russia and Russian territory and that is what Russia is dealing with... there was never any expectation that a military defeat of the Ukraine would take only months... there was a hope that the people of the Ukraine were not prepared to die for the US but then who knew Saakashvili would be that stupid in 2008 either...

Statement that Russian losses are not so big are based on what? Russian side is hiding their losses even more compared to Ukraine. Neither losses of people nor equipment are public. You hide numbers when they are not good, nothing to speculate there, Ukraine is doing that - but Russia too, it is the same reason for acting like that - both have huge losses.

Even if that was true the losses for Russia are necessary or there will be US missiles on their border within 5 years time and probably nuclear armed.

Regarding NATO - that organization is dinosaurs from another era. It is not functional nor it has clear purpose or strength for some time now. Nor it is really dangerous to Russia - for years.

HATO is the US in a mech suit pretending to be much bigger and much more powerful than it really is... the lack of democracy proves this... they don't discuss anything... either Brussels dictates or the US does and the rest follows except for one or two states who argue.

Now their cheap energy has gone the EU is just going to get weaker and less competitive and the US is going to keep sabotaging them to keep them following their demands.

We see that some countries in NATO are quite big supporters of Russia (Hungary, Turkey).

They are not supporters of Russia, they support their own national interests over the interests of the US and Germany.... which is what all countries should be doing.

Only security guarantee for them can be given by US, not NATO.

Tell that to the Afghans fighting the Taliban and ISIS...

So no, NATO is not real reason for this war; if anything this war clearly clarified that and exposed all weaknesses of NATO publicly.

Of course HATO is the reason for this war because HATO is the US and having the US in the Ukraine is more of a threat than Russians in Cuba.

Ukraine still has many restrictions on strategic weaponry that has longer ranges, more payload etc... but as war continues those restrictions will melt too. Again it was up to Russia to do quickly the job and make a peace - it did not happen

Do it.

Send them planes and Russia will just shoot them down.

Send them long range missiles and Russia will have no choice but to neutralise the entire territory... the longer the range of missiles you provide the further back from Russian territory anything that might remain of Zelenskys forces will have to be pushed from the new Russian territory... and I am pretty sure as they push them back more and more Ukrainians in that neutral buffer space are going to want to have a referendum and join Russia just to get investment and money spent on them, because it is only a matter of time before the US cuts and runs because it is embarrassing how all their super weapons are failing against the enemy they were optimised to fight.

The burning tanks will be hard to explain because they were going to be a game changer... the aircraft they will blame on Orc pilots because of their lack of training... even if they are western pilots.

No one in Kyiv will ever again listen to what Moscow has to say. For them - Russia crossed line of no return.

A line Kiev crossed about 9 years ago when they started banning a language and shelling their own people.

China is calling for a ceasefire not because they love a fellow autocrat like NATO, nor do they like Russia. China wants to harm India because India is importing billions of dollars worth of Russian crude oil, fertilizers and rolled steel.

Rubbish.... China is just being a good world citizen but unlike western countries that make such choices they are trying to be even handed and fair and balanced... something the west never is.

In fact the west and HATO complained that the Chinese suggestion is invalid because they failed to help Kiev so they obviously support Russia and therefore are too biased to be impartial... like them... almost like they don't understand what words mean any more.

Because it is cheaper to do it on the front (or close behind it).

Watching how they get it there and then destroying a few of those bridges would also hamper future distributions of said items.

Bring these tanks to the front, capture these, rate them, @Leningrad 1941 Tiger I

They will likely have them around Kiev or Odessa... at best they might gather lots together for a spring offensive aimed at the Crimea in an all or nothing push, but I doubt it... these vehicles can be picked off at range and will be for the propaganda value.

Their low numbers means you could use weapons you wouldn't normally use like LMUR or Kh-38...

First leopard tank apparently have arrived in Ukraine. With huge manpower and a lot of gear from west let’s be real, it will be a force not to be underestimated. Time will tell.

The Russians weren't beating them in combat because the Orcs were using the wrong tanks...

Western lies regarding these tanks... they have been training the Orcs for 9 years... but on other stuff probably till last year when they likely expanded the training to HATO shit.

I don't know why Russia was so cheap with the troops in this war. They have 700,000 active military. The whole thing could have been different if they sent more troops

Perhaps they were hoping it wouldn't turn into a war and all the rats would leave the ship and a quick change of leadership and everything would go back to normal... but the rats were running the ship and had no where to run to that was better than where they were...

Over time I rather suspect things will change, but Russia can't be in a hurry because this is too important to just rush out a result.

And yes... the trimming will commence now...

I think he is implying that Russia is using Gerans on Ukraine amor logistics and stuff

Next time some of these experts will say that the average american is much more capable of fighting against stray dogs than the average russian against bears, thus americans are superior

If they are using Gerans on tactical targets that can only mean the Russians have mastered domestic production of the Gerans.
Imagine if they married the ultra-long endurance (12 hrs+) of the Geran with the man-in-the-loop guidance of the Lancet.
That shit would rape.

That would require some serious signal retranslation subsystems, making the thing complicated and costly.
If we are talking about using its 12h loitering time for getting some range of course.
I would say that Lancet with some heavier punch is all that is needed. Its small destruction potential is projected deliberately into the project. What made it an excellent antyinsurgency tool, is a slightly tactical disadvantage for a full scale heavy gear war operation.

ALAMO wrote:That would require some serious signal retranslation subsystems, making the thing complicated and costly.
If we are talking about using its 12h loitering time for getting some range of course.

You just need a powerful enough repeater on a drone. Orlans regularly include one on longer range recon flights alongside a dedicated EW drone and the actual observation drone so it shouldn't be that hard to include this support capability.

ALAMO wrote:I would say that Lancet with some heavier punch is all that is needed. Its small destruction potential is projected deliberately into the project. What made it an excellent antyinsurgency tool, is a slightly tactical disadvantage for a full scale heavy gear war operation.

With 12 hrs of loitering time you can severely complicate shoot and scoot operations by mobile artillery.
The 50 kg unitary warhead is probably too much for most targets though, so maybe a cassette dispenser can be substituted instead so you can bomb several targets with several highly accurate passes.

Arrow wrote:The best tank Ukraine will get will be the Leopard 2A6. Will the new 3BM60 be enough for it? There will be very few of these type Leopards. Abrams are unlikely to arrive and if the US hands them over, it will probably be in a much weaker version. Even if they have modern ones with M829A4 ammunition, how dangerous is it for the T-90M?

The German L2A6 still retains the L2A4 hull it was originally upgraded from. In fact only the L2A7V would finally have the upgraded hull, and Germany's only just getting that variant for itself. So its not as survivable as one might think, since even outdated 3BM42 can still kill the L2A6 with a hull shot.

And since the L2A6 is expected to spearhead the offensive, it won't be able to make use of cover as much as it wants to hide this glaring weakspot. There should be more than enough opportunity for Russian gunners to slip a shaft through the vulnerable chassis ammo rack. Can't say the same for the Ukrainian gunners since the heavy ERA coverage of Russian tanks is a lot more comprehensive covering both turret and hull instead of focusing on one place like the German Leopards did.

And no, the Ukrainians won't get the most modern ammo, lol. Ukraine's a magical place where entire ammo convoys disappear without a trace after making an unplanned turn. I'd bet samples of the most advanced shells NATO materials technology can design would be on an express courier to Rostec labs just right after its handed over to the Ukrainians.

Hole wrote:The Leo2 will never see a T-90M. Artillery and ATGM´s will take them out.

Exactly. These Leopards would have to run the gauntlet of precise and devastating Russian firepower before it can even get in range of a single Russian tank. And since there's only so much of them its not that hard to concentrate devastating firepower and exhaustive observation means to hunt them down for good.

Ehhhhhh its a big frontline, Russia isn't going to have every section lined up with drones or arty, completely unrealistic to suggest that Leo's will never find a russian tank.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ehhhhhh its a big frontline, Russia isn't going to have every section lined up with drones or arty, completely unrealistic to suggest that Leo's will never find a russian tank.

Even across a broad front there's only so much places where a penetration is feasible and has juicy enough targets behind worth getting at. And the Ukrainians only have so much steel to commit in an armored thrust in the first place so its not really that hard to guess where they will attack. Of course the lead-up to the actual attack will rarely be undetected either so even if the Russians mess up they can still redeploy their forces especially their airpower right where they are needed.

Slav life...

https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/45984
02/25/23. It's very hot under Ugledar.
Our artillery and aircraft have been "raging" since morning. They hit with a large caliber, so that high-rise buildings began to take shape.
203-mm "Malki" and "Peonies" went into action.
Plus, there is unverified information that the Aerospace Forces also work with something rather "heavy" and missile (probably X-59 or something else similar).
———————
About fucking time, if true

Another HARM took down.
Date of manufacture 1987.
Expired in 19... something, so 25 years ago.

Ukrs brought burned out tank claimed to be Russian to Berlin, to make some show.

But the result was not what they have expected ...



Berliners started to lay flowers to pay respect to the Russian soldiers.

Edit : what the guy is saying, he brought 2000 red roses to cover that tank to show that Germans are not the enemies, and that the govts should finally start diplomatic contacts to end the war ASAP.



https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/62698

Something I haven't seen yet. A VDV team on quad carrying support weapon, ATGM and AGS. Nice!

Recently I read how the US was better at combating air defenses in Vietnam than Russia was in Ukraine. In this comparison, they just didn't take into account that Ukraine had much more powerful air defenses than North Vietnam.There's nothing to even compare wrote:

That was 50 years ago tech, how the F is that comparable. That said even those Russian missiles with updated electronics and radars are still formidable today. They lost 9500 planes and helos in Vietnam not including the ones had to throw into the sea