Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45

where are the Shilkas ?? i thought they would be ideal for dealing with slow moving drones and to help support the Pantsirs, they could also be used for supressing infantry positions as well

Ukraine Helps Russia Get Secrets of Storm Shadow Missile, by Daria Volkova, Evgeny Pozdnyakov for VZGLYAD. 07.07.2023.

The Russian army got its hands on the most valuable trophy - the Franco-British Storm Shadow missile, with which the enemy strikes rear targets from long distances. What are the features of this missile and how will the analysis of its "stuffing" affect the tactics of countering such systems?

On the eve of the Russian military from the volunteer detachment "Bars-11"  captured  the Franco-British cruise missile Storm Shadow. This  was reported to RIA Novosti  by the head of the Military-Technical Center "Tsarskie Wolves" Dmitry Rogozin. According to him, the projectile was only partially destroyed, as it fell flat.

“The missile was divided into several parts by our technical specialists right on the battlefield. The high-explosive and cumulative parts are separate, the control unit is separate, the wing is folded for ease of transportation, ”Rogozin said. He added that the warhead uses very high-level electronics.

In his  Telegram channel  , Rogozin noted that the rocket’s materiel had to be taken out of the “gray zone” of the line of contact under shelling. In addition, Ukrainian saboteurs tried to intercept a car with a rocket and an escort car on the way. The operation to evacuate the captured Storm Shadow lasted two days.

Currently, the projectile was sent to one of the defense enterprises of Moscow. Rogozin noted that specialists will study the algorithms of the weapon control system and share them with air defense experts, which will make it possible to find an "antidote" for our electronic warfare systems.

The American edition of  The Drive  writes that the missile could be of great intelligence value to Russia. It is noted that in the design of Storm Shadow applied solutions that provide stealth. According to the newspaper, the materials from which the projectile is made, as well as the design of the warhead, may be useful for the RF Armed Forces.

The ammunition received an inertial guidance system with GPS correction, and at the final stage of the flight, the rocket uses an infrared homing head (GOS) with automatic target recognition. According to the publication, the study of the GOS, on-board electronics and software will allow you to find weaknesses in the rocket.

“First of all, the analysis of Storm Shadow will allow you to find out exactly what composite materials the rocket consists of. This information will be an important step towards the improvement of our EW stations. In addition, Russia gets the opportunity to disassemble the inertial guidance system of the projectile in detail, ” military expert Yuri Knutov told the VZGLYAD newspaper.

“Movement to the target of Storm Shadow is carried out in three phases. At the first stage, the warhead receives data from the base, which makes it possible to accurately direct the missile to the required square. Then, already in flight, the projectile reads the data from the GPS system. Thus, the correction of the trajectory takes place directly in the air,” the interlocutor notes.

"At the last stage, a thermal homing system is activated, which at lightning speed compares the image of the target embedded in the rocket with what the projectile camera sees. Such a three-phase system allows you to strike with maximum accuracy. Now the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have the opportunity to study this system from the inside", the expert emphasizes.

“Moreover, after a detailed study, countering projectiles will become cheaper, since we will be able to focus more on electronic warfare systems, although previously we had to use Pantsir ammunition,” the source emphasizes.

“It is difficult to accurately estimate the time needed to analyze Storm Shadow. However, as practice shows, a detailed review can take about a month. Nevertheless, the most important data will appear within a week of the start of comprehensive work in this area,” sums up Knutov.

“The Anglo-French Storm Shadow cruise missile is a valuable trophy for our defense industry. Research institutes will fully study this missile, its strengths and weaknesses, technical capabilities, and so on,” said Aitech Bizhev, ex-Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force for the joint air defense system of the CIS member states.

“It is especially valuable that in the conditions of hostilities and an obvious conflict with NATO, we managed to get such a sample. If we want to introduce some of the technologies used there, we will do it, we will adopt it,” he said.

“But the most important thing is that we will be able to improve our air defence system.

To do this, on the basis of the data obtained, analogues of missiles will be created - targets, according to which the calculations of air defense systems will learn to work, ”the expert argues. “Of course, the British and French will somehow react to what happened, modernize their system. But we are not talking about some very significant changes that take a lot of time. Most likely, they will make some technical improvements,” he added.

“In general, as part of a special military operation, we study every day, study the enemy in real military operations. Our army has gained invaluable experience in countering the entire arsenal that NATO has, and for all branches of the military,” Bizhev concluded.

https://vz.ru/society/2023/7/7/1220093.html

Oh no!, look at all these oppressed people in Ukraine!

Airshow for the people on the DPR shores

The DPICM 155mm rounds are the cluster munitions, which they seem to be supplying due to not having many more standard rounds left. The have millions and many are already in Europe.

U.S. National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan stated today that the Transfer of  155mm Cluster Munitions to Ukraine is Necessary due to the Increasing Shortages of Artillery Shells that they are continuing to face with this allowing for a “Bridge” for further Artillery Production and Procurement to be created; Sullivan also stated that hey have received Assurances from the Ukrainian Government that these Munition will be utilized in way to Severely Reduce the chance of Civilian Casualties.

Ukraine's counter-offensive has been moving slower than some had hoped, that has led to higher artillery expenditure rates — Pentagon official

Russia should start using cluster bombs widely

ahmedfire wrote:Russia should start using cluster bombs widely

Agreed. Any escalation on part of Ukraine or NATO needs a powerful response and therefore more Ukrainian and NATO militants needs to get slaughtered.

ahmedfire wrote:

Wait, Ukraine now has less territory than when this offensive started? My God, it would almost be worth taking miss low def off ignore to see her spin on this.

Wait, Ukraine now has less territory than when this offensive started? My God, it would almost be worth taking miss low def off ignore to see her spin on this.

This is actually what is going to happen , after the Ukies get exhausted , losing assets , men and hope , the Russians will start a new wave of counteroffensive which i believe in such circumstances will be successful .

Disagree . Oh wait a sec ! What is the objective of this war ? They said denazification & demilitarization . Therefore if Russia's tactics are right , then we should see : ( 1 ) Fewer or no Nazis and ( 2 ) Fewer or no weapons in the hands of Nazis . Are we seeing this ? Well there are no Nazis in the liberated areas , but many in the rest of Ukrs , so this is a partial success , proof of the tactic of territorial gain , as one successful method . But there is no demilitarization . The equipment they lost is being replenished . Then in this tactic , there is fail and Russia needs to change tactic . How ? Well if a madman Nazi attacks with a knife , then given the choice , do you defend with ( 1 ) bare fists , out of concern for the Nazi madman's life , over your own ? ( 2 ) A knife , out of respect for the rules of chivalry ? ( 3 ) A gun , out of concern for your own or other sane people's safety , over that of a Schmidt ? The answer is very very clear . If they escalate to using submunitions , you escalate to using theatre Nukes ! And you roll over their corpses with Tanks , until you reach Poland !

Instead of Ukr in NATO, Robinette in a suicidal move opted for cluster munitions to the terrorists. Response should be decisive blows in SVO (through counterstrikes before Vilnius) and Syria.

nomadski wrote:Disagree . Oh wait a sec ! What is the objective of this war ? They said denazification & demilitarization . Therefore if Russia's tactics are right , then we should see : ( 1 ) Fewer or no Nazis and ( 2 ) Fewer or no weapons in the hands of Nazis . Are we seeing this ? Well there are no Nazis in the liberated areas , but many in the rest of Ukrs , so this is a partial success , proof of the tactic of territorial gain , as one successful method . But there is no demilitarization . The equipment they lost is being replenished . Then in this tactic , there is fail and Russia needs to change tactic . How ? Well if a madman Nazi attacks with a knife , then given the choice , do you defend with ( 1 ) bare fists , out of concern for the Nazi madman's life , over your own ? ( 2 ) A knife , out of respect for the rules of chivalry ? ( 3 ) A gun , out of concern for your own or other sane people's safety , over that of a Schmidt ? The answer is very very  clear . If they escalate to using submunitions , you escalate to using theatre Nukes ! And you roll over their corpses with Tanks , until you reach Poland !

Now that's some boatload of garbage

Iranian version of stormshadow is coming pretty soon

The Russians already have a range of weapons with a similar capability like the Kh-59 family right up to the Kh-69 stealthy model.

Iranian copycat Javelin ready to go.

With modern QWIP thermal sensors it should be much more affordable, but they also make Kornet under licence so it will fill a gap and not just be their only ATGM.

Iran's the new China with its copies.

I'm curious how well these work. Hopefully better than the American variant.

A very western centric view... the Soviets made the MiG-25 and the US copied it with the F-15, the Soviets made BMP-2s and the US got the Bradley copy straight afterwards, Soviet tanks had smoothbore guns... widely criticised by the west as inaccurate and then within a decade western tanks have smoothbore main guns too but now they are super accurate.

Don't think the U.S. original (Javelin) has any particular faults, it does what it's supposed to do.

The low quality thermal sensor in the missile means it often has trouble getting a lock, which means against targets covered in camouflage it often has to be manually guided which has two very important effects... first your super expensive system that should be fire and forget isn't and is actually inferior to something like Metis that is much much cheaper, and second that weak warhead that is fine for penetrating the top of a vehicle would struggle with the frontal armour of most vehicles today.

They don't seem to be designed to be used in the cold and the wet, and the weapons supplied seem to be from old stocks and appear to have a high failure rate.

I guess proper Russian armor was tougher than expected as well (ie not "monkey-model" armor usually encountered elsewhere on the planet).

I suspect it is also a case that the men operating these weapons are used to handling Soviet equipment which is a bit more rugged and soldier proof and so having to handle western equipment so gently is probably not something they are used to.

And of course when it fails they lose confidence in the equipment so it is more likely to remain in its boxes and be sold to the highest bidder.

All in all, just seems like western military thinking simply wasn't suited for this, all the way from how the weapons work to how much they cost per bang, to how the tactics are employed.

Very much agree but would emphasise that western arms makers seem to get away with making fragile crap for top dollar, which means they will never have enough on the front line even spending 10 times more on "defence" than their opponents do.

where are the Shilkas ?? i thought they would be ideal for dealing with slow moving drones and to help support the Pantsirs, they could also be used for supressing infantry positions as well

I would think BMPs with command detonated 30mm cannon shells would be rather better suited to such a role.

The very small drones are hard to spot till they are rather close for very heavy weapons to be used... I would say that new belt fed RPK replacement would be a good weapon to deal with drones, but really airburst ammo is important and really only becomes practical at 30mm calibre and larger.

Russia should start using cluster bombs widely

Russia should deploy nuclear weapons to Iran.

Agreed. Any escalation on part of Ukraine or NATO needs a powerful response and therefore more Ukrainian and NATO militants needs to get slaughtered.

The US does not give a shit about Ukrainian soldiers or civilians, the US doesn't care what sort of clean up problems cluster munitions will create in a few years time...

They do care about what Russia gives Iran and North Korea and Cuba and Belarus.

Get a point by accident. Russkie are using cluster ammo since the very beginning.

They had them available from the beginning but the Russian forces are not using them, just like they have not used DU tank rounds either.

The orcs used their soviet era cluster weapons... they had them on that Tochka missile that killed all those civilians...

If they escalate to using submunitions , you escalate to using theatre Nukes ! And you roll over their corpses with Tanks , until you reach Poland !

Using nukes in this case would be self defeating. The US is giving weapons to nazis, Russia should give nukes to Persians...

It would be consistent too... when the UK sent DU tank rounds to Ukraine Russia deployed nukes to Belarus, so cluster munitions to Ukraine should equal Russian nukes deployed to Iran perhaps?

Of course having said that allowing Russia to now use its enormous range of cluster munitions from tube and rocket artillery as well as air delivered ordinance... those glide and guidance kits fit cluster bombs as well as normal dumb bombs too, plus the cheapest and most efficient way to arm a suicide drone is with a 2.5kg HEAT submunition normally loaded into artillery shells or aircraft bombs or rockets... it is already designed to penetrate top armour and is mass produced in enormous numbers and is relatively cheap...

There is no way this decision will bite the US in the arse.... their decisions never do because they always talk things through and assess from every angle... they don't just have yes men from the US MIC trying to sell shit.

nomadski wrote:Disagree . Oh wait a sec ! What is the objective of this war ? They said denazification & demilitarization . Therefore if Russia's tactics are right , then we should see : ( 1 ) Fewer or no Nazis and ( 2 ) Fewer or no weapons in the hands of Nazis . Are we seeing this ? Well there are no Nazis in the liberated areas , but many in the rest of Ukrs , so this is a partial success , proof of the tactic of territorial gain , as one successful method . But there is no demilitarization . The equipment they lost is being replenished . Then in this tactic , there is fail and Russia needs to change tactic . How ? Well if a madman Nazi attacks with a knife , then given the choice , do you defend with ( 1 ) bare fists , out of concern for the Nazi madman's life , over your own ? ( 2 ) A knife , out of respect for the rules of chivalry ? ( 3 ) A gun , out of concern for your own or other sane people's safety , over that of a Schmidt ? The answer is very very  clear . If they escalate to using submunitions , you escalate to using theatre Nukes ! And you roll over their corpses with Tanks , until you reach Poland !

The west will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, but once Challengers and Abrams, and cluster munitions and F-16s don't change things I think a lot of western powers start questioning the efficacy of the proxy war. Remember a few weeks ago Ben Hodges told us that Ukraine would win in 10 days. Now he is outting on qualifiers that its going to be victory in 2024 if Ukraine gets the right weapons. The west used to try tonsay its 200,000 Russians. Now its at least 25,000 Russian dead.

Now if you want nuclear war, well that depends on what happens in the 2024 elections in America and after. I am far less hopeful that the Republicans would seek to end this war peacefully than many on here are. Anyways, if you want nuclear war you may very well end up with it. I just hope none of us ever experiences that.

ucmvulcan wrote:Now if you want nuclear war, well that depends on what happens in the 2024 elections in America and after. I am far less hopeful that the Republicans would seek to end this war peacefully than many on here are. Anyways, if you want nuclear war you may very well end up with it. I just hope none of us ever experiences that..

But is Russia's arsenal of 1,600+ deployed warheads and 5,800+ nukes in stockpile enough to permanently eradicate NATO to extinction? NATO is like a Cancer that needs to be eradicated down to the single atom to prevent its filth from proliferating again. This is why Russia needs a minimum of 55,000 active warheads ready for lunch in a short notice with 100 megatons each for guaranteed Destruction of Russia's foes.

I wonder if Russia will attack during the NATO summit. Best time, all the clowns in one place. Russia can close airspace in the baltic region. I dunno, I get the feeling things are coming to a head.

Which is essentially why the Ukraine is going to lose... the west has complete confidence in its air power and the effect that has on any conflict, despite it not really being the slam dunk westerners think.

I really want them to send F-16s and Abrams tanks... it is actually easier to kill four men in a tank than four men scattered around in a trench and a 70 ton tank needs fuel and ammo and other support the Orcs simply don't have the manpower for.

Werewolf wrote:

The issue right now that is standing before Kazakhstan is that they are setup for failure and they are idiotic enough like Moldovia and Moldovians not to understand that they are after Georgia and Ukraine next on the line to be played like a damn fiddle.

Sanctions never worked and only solidify the political course the current government has. R
It's time to defend Russia's interest and start defending our borders.
If anyone is stupid enough to believe a country on the other side of the globe is going to protect you from your own stupidity against a neighbouring country, then face your destiny!

The presidents of these countries are literally agents of the US that were put there by the US. That is their career pursuit. Being an agent of the US. There is no teaching them anything. Once an agent of the US manages to become president (Georgia, Ukraine and now Kazakistan) the US controls the country. Literally. And what would the US do if it literally got control of kazakistan ? Pull it out of the Eurasian Union, pull it out of CIS and start building bio labs. And thats exacty what is happening.

And yet, Xi and Putin don't seem to have any strategy to counter this.

So the US is providing Ukraine with another $800 million worth of weapons, including cluster bombs. Although we are aware that the US and its NATO Lapdogs have been providing weapons to Ukraine from the beginning, perhaps it can no longer be denied that NATO is brazenly arming Ukraine with the aim of Killing Russians.

With this in mind, its only rational and fair for Russia to start shipping weapons to all parties that are hostile to NATO, and the sooner we see NATO creeps Killed inside and outside of Ukraine with the help of Russian weapons, the better.

JohninMK wrote:The DPICM 155mm rounds are the cluster munitions, which they seem to be supplying due to not having many more standard rounds left. The have millions and many are already in Europe.

This is just the usual escalation cycle. The less effectively Ukraine fights, the more deadly weapons the US and UK provides them. And of course it wont turn the war in Ukraine's favor. But it does cost Russia more casualties.

Watch Ukraine start lobbing these cluster munitions into Donetsk city. While western politicians strut around Kiev.