Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45

Actually no, they are closing the existing ones. And transfer them to lets say China. But carry on.

On a soft skinned vehicle won't those be propelled inward and kill the occupants?

Not to mention the huge windows. 


Half of the Ukro "gains" in the last 6 weeks are gone. 

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Your right there isn't, because you cling to fallacies, Russia will never have the amount of missiles needed to impos such damage on NATO you clearly underestimate how much damage Russia would need to cause. Will millions die on both sides, yes. Would Russia cause heavy damage, yes.

But it's still going to lose, NATO is a much different beast than Ukraine. To compare them Is foolish, Ukraine will reveal defects and those defects will be addressed, that's why it's not good for the Russians to let this go on.

The more NATO seea the more it will correct

The damage that will be seen in Europe is only relevant to the stubborness of the Western vassals. If they want to die as cannon fodder for some globalists that are no where near the front and at most endangered from dying from to much booze, or getting some STD from one of Epsteins children for their sick sexual pleasure, then let them have their war. The issue that you don't seem to understand is, Ukrainians and Poles are of different breed than the German, the Brit or the Yankee.

Who in NATO is going to be fighting Russia? Do you really believe all of them will mobilize and go to the front? There is a good reason why Polish fighters are under UKRO insignia in Ukraine and not under their own.

Military-wise Ukraine on 24th February 2022 had more firepower and man power to kill Poland, Czechs and keep on rolling to Germany.
So tell me what do you mean by NATO being a serious firepower. The only ones that are capable of inflicting damage are the US and to some extend the UK.
The US is to far away to cause any damage without being fucked up by non-conventional ways in naval terms. The UK will be less of a problem than you believe. It's a tiny country and Russia has ten thousands of cruise missiles to kill their logistical junction points, MIC, stationary military installations and have more for anything else that might be targeted with cruise missiles.

Or are you talking about "mobilized" full potential NATO forces in some 15+ years from now?

There is no scenario were NATO can win. Russia will not remain to conventional means if they do not need to.

Article 5 is a big bluff and you will see it soon enough. The stupid ones that will believe in Article 5 are the Pre-baltics, Poland, Romania, Czechia and Germany. The Rest do not even matter as they are not the front and will not have anything to fear unless someone after Putin decides, tactical nukes are not only fair game put the name of the new game.

Remeber my words once you fat American Nazi will sit on the other side of the big puddle and laugh or fear, whatever your two neurons will short circuit for you, tactical nukes will be used, article 5 will remain mostly on words and more "weapon deliveries" to the 4-7 idiots at the front getting blasted to pieces. The US direct involvement will not happen.

NATO is a much different beast than Ukraine.

A pic is worth a thousands words. Bundesstat is good enough, or you need a higher level, SS?

mnztr wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:I hope so and I hope Russia bags a large number of Ukrainian prisoner. Both for the sake of Russians and Ukrainians. Widespread surrenders will shock the Zelensky govt and the West and also end this with less bloodshed on both sides.

They should be bagging large number of Ukrainian corpses

Bagging prisoners is just procrastinating

Earlier in the war I would agree, but most of these guys are reluctant conscripts dragged to the front. killing even cannon fodder will result in some losses. Surrender is also contaigious. Once the taboo is broken it will gain momentum. Its also demoralizes the leadership.

They are enemy soldiers, had the war been going better for Ukrs they would be gleefully charging forward to victory

By leaving them alive you sow the seeds of insurgency and your own inevitable defeat

Soviets did it and they are all gone now (good riddance), if Russians wan to end up like them they should keep coddling Nazis

NATO,...

*ask Americans to drop propaganda flyers over a town. They shove the entire pallet out the rear of some C-130 at night and it crashes to some poor bastards home that appears 3 days later hand full of flyers shouting at our front gate.

*the one guy in charge of ordering diesel of an large NATO base in Afghanistan goes home, never bothered think nobody took over his tasks. Nobody notices the fuel storage depleting the next few weeks. NATO base runs out of fuel, no more mechanized patrols for several weeks.

*go on an exercise to Scotland, having no own naval transport capacity NATO decides to just buy ticket's to the civilian ferry lines. Get actually warned by some these standard tickets are for regular transport. not millitary flatbeds with tanks that are outside the norm.
Flatbeds arrive at the harbor, Ferry loadmaster laughs and say only a small percentage can board. over 60 percent of NATO vehicles never came to the exercise and returned to base.
Or,...NATO  just rents one cargo ship to fully load with all their vehicles on.
Also brilliant, one torpedo and you take away the vehicles of entire company's.

*No air transport capacity of it's own to speak off, begged to the Russian private company's in 2008 to fly NATO logistics with their Ilushyns, antonovs and MI's instead in Afghanistan.

*go on exercise to Poland, discover they had no winter gear enough for just the few units being deployed there. NATO troops froze in the field so the Polish troops had to clear the barracks for their Western counterparts. Not enough tanks to take to poland, but just load the ones with the broken propulsion, the salvage tank will line them up nicely and the media will not notice. Oh, ...not enough .50 calls?. just spray paint some brooms black and tape them to the turret.

*go to Norway on exercise without Winter gear, So your NATO soldiers have to buy their own shit from third-party survival/army gear manufacturers so you do not go back home with toes or fingers missing.....or worse.

*NATO logistics?. give me a break. just a handful of army trucks here and there.
All logistical units where decimated by budget cuts and the transport now is privatized.
It is spend in civilian transport company's so they can do it instead. Because, it is cheaper.
NATO army's just keep the handful of their own trucks around for the eye of the Media.

*take your latest and greatest of Millitary gear to Afghanistan, during training you ask the right questions like: "if i am in the field without support, how do i deal with x problem?". "Well, you call the mechanic of the company". W...T...F!?!.
"no seriously, how do i get to the start component for the engine?".
Unreachable, its located in the V shaped hull underneath the engine itself.
"What if we modify this or that?".  "No, that violates the manufacturers warranty"..
the MIC at it's finest. the products are over priced and over hyped like the Russian said in the video. It is not made for War, The Russian stuff keeps going.

Test out the latest Boxer APC, find out the thing has a computer that needs to run a boot process before you can do anything. I hope the RF AT crews and KA/MI pilots have some patience with that.

The Gill AT system, Well the missile flying up loses it's acquired target briefly. when it comes down and there is another heat source, it goes after that. If the surrounding environment is almost just as hot. It loses its target. It turned out during field-tests for approval of the weapon was staged by corrupt officials. Just like many of NATO's current systems.

*NATO's BMS (Battlefield Management System) all infantry, vehicles and aircraft are linked and can see the battlefield information real time and share this.
Oh?. you have to abandon your vehicle you say?. just press an elaborate switch combination to whipe the system. And lets install this high-risk system also in soft-shell vehicles while we are at it. Amazing!. this just can not possibly go wrong in the battlefield!. But sure, meanwhile just laugh at the Russians utilizing the old tried and true method of an physical map and knowing just the plan x hours/days in advance to prevent the enemy having intel in case you get captured.

But hey, let's just do not listen to our (combat experienced) soldiers addressing all these things.
Instead, work them out of the army and replace them with LGBTQ pro-Yank Yes-men that are more concerned twerking with their asses on the gay parade than being an actual professional soldier that keeps going when things do not go your way.

....so.....how long does one want me to make this list about how screwed NATO really is against an adversary like Russia, China?. I have plenty of examples left.

When Russia is waging war over an 1400 KM (if i remember correctly) frontline and it's logistic machine is running just fine for 1.5 years now is reason enough that NATO is dead meat. NATO can not even make it to one of their own little exercises on their own power.

48 hours or less, that is what came out of simulations in the ridiculous full-glass made Brussels NATO headquarters how long it would take Russia or China to obliterate NATO's forces established lines.
As that was all the combat capable units and ammo would last in an 1:1 ratio engagement.

Rambo Has left the building Has a super secret mission on his fella Battlefield server to walk though

replace their 400 ancient Minuteman III ICBMs and they have 800 billion to spend (on crap)! Laughing LIKE1DISLIKE wrote:

So is the strategic submarine fleet. Old Ohio with Trident II which are also old.

It has always been said that Russia is betting mainly on the nuclear triad. It is true that they currently have the most modern nuclear triad, but also very strong conventional forces, which in the course of SMO become even stronger and are a challenge for the entire NATO.

US cluster munitions hurt Biden himself, by Dmitry Bavyrin for VZGLYAD. 07.12.2023.

Despite all the efforts of the White House and the US State Department, the transfer of American cluster munitions to Ukraine caused a huge scandal. It was a blow both to the international position of America and to the positions of Biden himself, who is losing his chances for re-election. And the main merit in this belongs to the Russian army.

The US presidential administration is going out of its way to show that the decision to supply the Armed Forces of Ukraine with deliberately inhumane cluster munitions was given to the head of state with great difficulty, one might say - painfully. And this, most likely, is not even a lie - Joe Biden's team had something to "grit their hearts about." Kyiv persuaded her to make a very risky bet.

It is not at all a matter of pangs of conscience for future civilian victims. The United States actively used cluster munitions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Biden, for most of his very long career, was a cynical and tough politician - a "hawk" in matters of defense and foreign affairs, linking in this sense with the Republicans. For most of them, there is no such problem at all as the market for cluster munitions: we make everything we want and we deliver it to whom we want.

Another thing is that forty years ago Biden spoke out against the supply of such weapons to Israel precisely because of their "inhumanity." But this is a solvable problem, at least Biden's image makers solve problems of this kind regularly: their boss often "bent along with the party line." Not in the sense that he sensitively changed his position, but that he bent it as long as possible, but “pushed it back” when his opponents turned into the majority.

For example, in the 1980s and 1990s, "old Joe" was not at all affectionate with blacks and gays, not to mention transgender people, but now life has forced him.

In the case of cluster bombs, life also forced them. “If they are not handed over to Kiev, then Ukraine will not have enough artillery not only for a counteroffensive, but also for defense,” Biden’s national security adviser Jake Sullivan justifies.

In other words, the President could not do otherwise, because the investment in the military victory of Ukraine has become the main one in his political career, its final directly depends on it. Everyone understands this. But the US ruling elite also understands that these cluster munitions will come back to haunt them in the near future - in the presidential election.

Biden's most likely opponent, Donald Trump, believes that cluster deliveries to the Armed Forces of Ukraine brought the third world war closer. More likely than not, but in this situation, it does not matter what Trump says. Trump will always and everywhere say that Biden has failed, and that his policies are disastrous for the country.

It is much more important what the “left wing” of the US Democratic Party thinks, for which cluster munitions are not a matter of what Biden really needs, and not that the Armed Forces of Ukraine that failed their “counterattack” can’t do without them now. It is a matter of principle where there is no room for compromise. Something like "you can't eat people - period."

Two dozen left-wing congressmen, even at the stage of discussions about cluster munitions, called for the United States to join the convention banning their use, production and transfer. And when the White House said “we will give it anyway”, this already gave rise to a wide wave of indignation at the level of various political, public and humanitarian organizations.

The Pentagon tried to reassure everyone by declaring that they would supply Kyiv with “especially reliable” shells, in which the volume of non-detonating filling does not exceed 3%. Journalists quickly found out that the Pentagon did not have such ammunition in the required quantity, since the production of cluster bombs was considered bad manners under democratic administrations.

At Biden, they tried to drown out the scandal by moving the conversation to another topic, but a day after it began, they took the line that the measure was not just “forced”, but also “temporary”. When the American "military industry" is able to satisfy the acute hunger of the Ukrainian artillery in conventional ammunition (and he is in a hurry and trying), the supply of "cassette" will immediately stop.

But the scandal did its job - it deepened the internal split between the government and the "left" Democrats, which were joined by several "moderates" who personally hate Biden with a pacifist position. Now it comes to the fact that "old Joe" will receive several "spoilers" at once in the elections , as a result of which the victory will go to the Republican. Most likely Trump.

In fact, the intra-party discussion is now being built on this. It's impossible to endure! - as if they are shouting alone. - After all, Biden is typical (fascist, capitalist, imperialist, old ruin - underline the necessary), but we need a progressive candidate, or at least a sane one.

Think again! - others conjure them. – After all, by doing this you are helping Trump, and there can be nothing worse than Trump!

In Trump's favor, these others are right. And their spell still works. But it works worse and worse - not at all. And the vast majority of voters, according to opinion polls, do not want to choose between Biden and Trump at all, which threatens to make the outflow of votes in favor of spoilers catastrophic for the incumbent and make his chances of re-election purely theoretical.

In this sense, it is not so important who will be the spoiler - some “leftist” like a professor from The Matrix  or, conversely, a “moderate” like those who belong to the No Labels political group, where they hate the Biden team, or those and others. The Republican voter is more conservative, stable and disciplined - he prefers to vote for candidates approved by the party. Therefore, the ship "Candidate Joe Biden" accelerated its movement to the bottom: the consequences of the informational detonation of "cluster munitions" are much stronger than it might seem from the outside.

A second fault line now lies between Biden and his key allies in the world. By and large, almost all allies, up to Canada, which many perceive as an annex to the United States.

Both it and Great Britain, and all the countries of Western Europe, and Australia and Japan signed the above-mentioned convention tabooing cluster munitions and now categorically stressed that they will abide by it, no matter what the Americans say.    

An unprecedented case: Biden’s decision was condemned even by the German “hawk” Annalena Burbock, who will never contradict the White House in matters of assistance to Ukraine (Chancellor Scholz is still trying, she will never). Even the Prime Minister of Britain stressed that he has and will not have anything to do with this.

Therefore, yes, in this case, the White House can be trusted: it was not easy for Biden to make a decision on cluster munitions. One must think that the United States is not lying about the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are experiencing a fatal shortage of shells instead of "triumphantly counterattacking."

We know the reasons for this state of affairs - this is the work of the military structures of the Russian Federation. Which, by the way, do not need to beg for cluster munitions from anyone, since Russia has them.

Thus, on Biden’s part, his “forced step” is a reference example of the aggravation of the armed conflict towards greater bloodiness, even put it in the famous Chamber of Weights and Measures. Perhaps, in two "nominations" at once - also as an example of a fatal mistake that cost US presidents re-election to their post.

https://vz.ru/world/2023/7/12/1220427.html