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SeigSoloyvov wrote:ucmvulcan wrote:Lets talk about American production. Back in the 40s we had a large pool of industrial workers. We had lots and lots and lots factories. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City produced steel. Wichita, Kansas City, Detroit, Los Angeles, Seattle produced tanks, jeeps, planes, guns. From Bangor Maine to Miami in Florida and from Seattle to San Diego and from Galveston to Tampa we had vast ship yards. Texas gave us oil. We were the undisputed kings of industry. Warning, propaganda ahead, but its based on fact:
We had all this industrial capacity, all these skilled workers and available labor to build these things to the point where we produced enough weaponry to supply ourselves and our allies and even our foes with weapons, logistics, food, and support equipment and buildings.
That was then. In WWI and WWII (Great Patriotic War), what you say was true.
Now?
Well, offshoring has put most US production in China and Mexico and etc. US factories are now empty weed grown lots. Most Americans are unskilled in terms of factory work and most Americans do not want that sort of monotonous job.
Wait, there's more. See in the 1930s Americans got to accept doing without. The Great Depression was a bitch. However, the experiences of doing without and a faith in the Roosevelt administration (that was by and large much deserved) meant that when FDR said we need to cinch in our belts and sacrifice for the good of the country and our British, French, Soviet, Chinese, etc allies we did. Now? There is no way that Americans are going to risk jeopardizing our consumer culture to give a clown in Ukraine the shells on the level he needs. There is no way that we are going to accept for long term increased taxes for a clown in Ukraine. America has become the land of the rugged individualist and lacks the means of production. The industrial capacity is lacking too. We talk a good game and make enough to terrorize the predominantly black and brown and mostly unarmed global south but we don't have the capacity to fight a Russo-Indian-Iranian-North Korean-Chinese bloc.
Will or won't is a different thing.
As for the manufacturing base the US is second behind China, we have PLENTLY OF factories, not in the same places as WW2 sure that's true
Also your comment is riddled with what ifs and blind assumptions, The US has the manpower, the manufacturing base and more to easily out produce the Russians if changed to a wartime economy this is a simple fact and we got plenty of resources.
I am not entertaining these idiotic notions that Russia can win conventionally simply because they cant and there is no shame in that, if you put the US in Russia position, we would also lose simply put Russia would enjoy some success for the first few years but once shit got to shift into gears they are done, they will be ground down to nothing. No one country on Earth could fight all of NATO on its own and win.
I am not here to sniff glue with copium addicts, these armchair experts here do not know better than the Russian MOD they claim to admire but act as if they know better, its hilarious to hear and see these excuses.
When the very guys they claim would win say "War with NATO is suicide" then I am not even interested in debates or entertain delusional fantasies period.
Not saying the russians would get bitch slapped or do no damage, sure they would put up a hell of a fight but in the end they would loose in a conventional war and they know, they have said it and this is why they invest heavy into ICBM tech and what not because that's their only real defense against NATO "okay if you attack us we all die together". This is simple fact.
i repeat the US has been planning for this for 10 years or more, the special operation has been going on for nearly 18 months, yet US munitions production is nowhere near Russia's, you are a paper tiger and bully, the USA is on the verge of bankruptcy with $32 trillion + and rising in debt and countries selling there US debt bonds including your so called allies as well as 119 countries actively ditching the US dollar, then there is the fact that you are a deeply divided nation on political lines between Republicans and Democrats
and all the NATzO countries including America have low levels of munitions , yesterday it was reported UK has no shells or bullets left in storage and Germany is down to 20K shells
billybatts91
If Western F-16 fighter jets show up in Ukraine, Russia will consider it as a nuclear threat, Sergey Lavrov said.
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Ammunition for tanks Leopard 1
The Russian Armed Forces launched a long-range sea-based high-precision weapons strike against AFU ammunition depots. The goal of the attack has been reached. All the assigned targets have been neutralised.
Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
In total, 455 airplanes, 242 helicopters, 4,995 unmanned aerial vehicles, 426 air defence missile systems, 10,687 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,138 fighting vehicles equipped with MLRS, 5,440 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 11,646 special military motor vehicles have been destroyed during the special military operation.
Russian Defence Ministry (https://t.me/mod_russia_en)
