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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:23 am

    The Patriot system would have shot down 3 s-34 today ?

    Only three. Surely they meant 30.

    The level of Murican delusions never stops shocking me, and the only fact that stands behind is that we deal with undereducated thugs with superiority syndrome for most of the cases.

    It is normal though, if you listen to western experts the 9x19mm is way more powerful than the 9x18mm, and in terms of energy there is a difference, but anything a 9x19mm will penetrate will normally also be penetrated by the 9x18mm with the right ammo and they both make 9mm holes.

    But when talking about 7.62x54mm and 7.62x51mm a few mms doesn't make any difference we are told... equally western 50 cal is 12.7x99mm vs Soviet 12.7x108mm are the same. Funny how higher velocity 9x19mm is better than the 9x18mm but the 7.62x25mm is not better than the western 9mm.

    Funny how things work.

    SS might claim the Bradley can survive some hits, but BMPs can survive hits too... but if either was as strong as a tank there would be no purpose to the T-15 or B-11 or K-17.

    Nothing on the battlefield is 100% safe, not even a T-14.

    This is hopefully not true...

    NYT wishes...

    Russia is not interested in declaring victory, it is interested in having its demands met.

    And honestly, as modern 30 mm ammunition can penetrate more than 100 mm, no chance anything lighter than a tank will stand that.

    Their new 57mm grenade launcher fires a much bigger much heavier much longer projectile in the APFSDS version and with much more propellant than any version of any 30mm cannon round could manage.

    Calling me a nazi Because I said, the Bradley is more survivable than a BMP, you see its that kind of stupid logic that makes people not take you seriously outside of this forum.

    Its standard main gun round is a DU round and is filled with ammo and fuel like any other armoured vehicle on the battlefield.

    It is essentially a BMP-2 with no amphibious ability any more.

    Add on armour packages will change protection in different directions a little but at the end of the day most anti armour weapons designed to deal with previous generation tanks... so 300-500mm penetration weapons will cut right through a Bradley.

    The Russians are not idiots and will have worked out which weapons are most suitable to defeat each type of Ukrainian weapon and all the weak points to hit to get a kill or at least immobilise or start a fire to get the enemy to abandon the vehicle.

    Modern armour piercing rounds have better penetration than the rounds used when this vehicle was first designed and I rather doubt the Ukies are getting the latest most top secret super heavy armoured version... although that will be the price that is used for the deal I suspect.

    Also the BMP was designed with the roll I stated, that is how it was designed and for the very reasons the soviets designed it.

    In the west there are the definitions APC and IFV. These definitions equate to the Soviet and Russian BTR and BMP. The Russians coined the term BMP before the west came up with IFV, so BMP as a description for both the Bradley and the various BMP models actually makes sense.

    The west was planning to use their BMPs the way the Soviets were planning to use their BMPs... essentially if the enemy has little or no anti armour weapons the troops stay inside the vehicles and use firing ports and the vehicle does the fighting using its fire power and optics. If the enemy has anti armour capacity then the troops dismount and the BMP provides direct fire support from a few hundred metres behind where its optics and weapons are still very effective and powerful.

    The Bradley actually had specialised gun port rifles that stayed in the vehicle and came with their own ammo supply for being used from inside the vehicle.

    The APC just drops the troops off and retires back a distance and provides fire support with its main gun. The US vehicle being an exposed soldier operating a pintle mounted 50 cal on an M113, while the Soviet vehicle being a BTR-60PB with a 14.5mm HMG and PKT MMG in a turret.

    The BTRs armour was not great but better than the two ton truck the western equivalent soldier would be riding in with some protection from small arms and shell splinters and being fully amphibious too... and the turret mounted guns.


    To be a battlefield taxi to ferry mass amounts of troops quickly, its gun was just meant to engage soft targets while the infantry was getting out.

    Actually the opposite... the BMP-1 had a 73mm gun and the BMP-2 had a 30mm cannon and the BMP-3 had a combination of both types of weapons plus they all had ATGMs specifically so they could deal with enemy equivalent vehicles and enemy tanks.

    The BMP wasn't meant to be taking anything other than small arms fire because of its lack of armor protection, the vehicles internal layout

    The vehicle was intended to operate near the front lines and needed to be operated properly to survive. On a battlefield where a tank is not safe... Leopard IIs and Challengers have been lost, while Abrams tanks seem to be hidden away not venturing anywhere near the front line for some reason... in such an environment you think a Bradley is going to cut through Russian defences and take back the Donbass?

    I don't bootlick, if you cannot tolerate someone saying your precious russian made vehicle is less survivable than an American made one.

    If I am wearing a leather jacket and you are topless I could say I was better protected from machine gun fire than you are... but is the difference even relevant when topless guys and guys with leather jackets are being killed on the battlefield fairly routinely on both sides?

    I would say a Bradley on the Orc side is no safer than a Soviet era BMP simply because all the weapons the Russians will be using will be capable of destroying either.

    AD will down most of these IF they ever come.

    One or two might get taken down by russian birds

    Would normally agree with you but I rather suspect the Orcs will get very clear instructions on where they can fly to minimise their risk to Russian air defence systems, which means surprise attacks by fighters might be more successful.

    The problem is the Russians should never be agreeing to any deal.

    They have the means to win this, so if they do some kind of deal then Putin sold out is own people or the russians are much weaker then one thought.

    And that is what the NYT is going for... trying to get doomers to doom about Putin betraying them and giving up, when Putin has said no such thing.

    This is American bullshit... lap it up bitches.

    Videos don't lie, I find the way your reaction hilarious, honestly, it's a riot when a little truth sets you fanboys off so much.

    Videos don't lie? Have you seen Star Wars?

    Why would you make a deal? why would you place your entire wager on signing a piece of paper?.

    They are not making any deal, that is what western sources are claiming. They are open to talks but they are not offering surrender and likely will not accept any terms short of unconditional surrender and a laying down of arms by their opposition.

    After a certain point you cannot blame others for fucking you, you can only blame yourself.

    Putin has stopped the fucking and is blaming no one. The problem is being resolved in 100 different ways as we speak... on the battlefield, and in the global economy.

    Ukraine is not Switzerland which has a population actually devoted to neutrality.

    Switzerland seized Russian assets and joined the western sanctions. They are as neutral as Poland in this.

    Ukraine has a population that is in significant part pro NATO and pro EU so any neutrality will be just a thinly veiled pro western stance.

    And eastern regions of the Ukraine wanted to keep speaking Russian and trading with Russia and Kiev said no and murdered them for it. The deal that Kiev was going to impose on Eastern and Southern regions of the country should be applied to the north and west.

    If you don't love it leave. Go to your EU and US and Canada... I am sure they will take you with open arms.

    As I said before, no end of hostilities until Russian troops are in Lvov. This problem needs to be solved once and for all.

    A collapse of the army and unconditional surrender would lead to Russian and possibly Belarussian and maybe CIS troops moving in to keep the peace... maybe even Turkish troops because they stayed neutral in this... they can keep order while referendums are set up to decide the future of the various regions of the country.

    If Putin leves Ukraine with all those deads with no territorial gains he is dead.

    He has no reason to accept such terms.

    Estonian Interior Minister Lauri Läänemets on readiness to extradite Ukrainians who fled the war to Kiev: We are ready to sign such an agreement and help Ukraine. We have an idea where these people are living in Estonia. We are ready to help deliver them from Estonia to Ukraine if they need it.

    That would be interesting because such men being sent to certain death might choose to fight and die in Estonia or EU countries.

    Its pure fantasy to think Ukraine will ever de-arm for good, they will never.

    They have a choice of course... except when there is no money and no weapons or ammo...

    at least 15 F-16s are already operating in Ukraine, seemingly they shot down a couple of Russian aircraft,

    Prove it.

    Sounds like the Su-34s being shot down story they had recently... maybe instead of Patriots not shooting them down it was F-16s not shooting them down?

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    ArgentinaGuard


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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Dec 24, 2023 1:33 pm

    I haven't commented on the forum in a while. The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a complete failure and they are running out of money and materials. Even Zelensky came to Argentina to beg, which shows his desperation. Everything indicates that Russian military victory is near. Surely in the middle of 2024. Even the anti-Russian media is saying it. The truth is that I admire the capacity that Russia has had. A great and fearsome nation.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:20 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:The truth is that I admire the capacity that Russia has had. A great and fearsome nation.

    I would only replace "fearsome" with "fearless". Smile

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    It's ripping BMPs to shreds, look like it's more than useful for war

    So far they managed to lose more than half of the provided.
    Using them as some fukin strategic reserves Laughing

    GarryB wrote:

    Prove it.

    Sounds like the Su-34s being shot down story they had recently... maybe instead of Patriots not shooting them down it was F-16s not shooting them down?

    The whole story was reported as fake, with 2022 pictures used as background.
    Combined with the F-16 bullshit, it looks more and more as psyops. And - again - it was spread by the same channels as other fake news. Call me surprised.

    And regarding reports that some EU countries will forcefully relocate Ukrainian males, you might guess what they will do having open borders with Belarus and Russia Laughing

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 24, 2023 4:54 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    It's ripping BMPs to shreds, look like it's more than useful for war



    It's not even making it to the frontline drones are taking it out before they make it to the drop points

    They can't be evacuated out of the battle zone, and they can't be repaired or supplied in the quantity needed for real war

    Actually soviet Bmp-1 are more useful for a real war, and thats why Ukraine relies overwhelmingly on it, if it had to rely on western supplied IFV, it would have lost in 2022

    Bradley and other western weapons are not built for proper war


    That's not even true they get to the frontline just fine again there are literal videos of it, The Ukie's problem here is they only have a handful of them and they have no means to repair them.

    Which is what I said would be the problem day 1 for them lack of proper logistics. You cannot except a handful of anything to change the tide of a war, but that doesn't mean they aren't slapping BMP's apart left and right on videos because they are

    The fact is they are doing well for an IFV in the conflict zone and are being use heavily in combat and Russia has yet to take them all out despite only a handful being given months ago, will they win the war hell no but they are doing well for themselves given the fact there was only 40 something given, so to say they are bad for war is just pure nonsense.

    Just like I have told clueless Western peeps, Russians tanks are good for what they are designed to do, yeah they have their weaknesses but all tanks do. Your personal bias does not dictate the reality of a weapons ability in war
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:15 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 67cc3910
    Looks like a winged FAB coming in.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:18 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    That's not even true they get to the frontline just fine again there are literal videos of it, The Ukie's problem here is they only have a handful of them and they have no means to repair them.
    Which is what I said would be the problem day 1 for them lack of proper logistics. You cannot except a handful of anything to change the tide of a war, but that doesn't mean they aren't slapping BMP's apart left and right on videos because they are
    The fact is they are doing well for an IFV in the conflict zone and are being use heavily in combat and Russia has yet to take them all out despite only a handful being given months ago, will they win the war hell no but they are doing well for themselves given the fact there was only 40 something given, so to say they are bad for war is just pure nonsense.
    Just like I have told clueless Western peeps, Russians tanks are good for what they are designed to do, yeah they have their weaknesses but all tanks do. Your personal bias does not dictate the reality of a weapons ability in war

    And again, you are opening your mouth proving no clue only.
    Not 40, but 186 Bradleys were supplied to Ukrs and that is the number revealed BY SEPTEMBER 2023.
    Before "mighty counteroffensive" Oryx provided detailed data of 53 pcs lost.
    As Oryx is a psyop made to fool the numbers and ceased to exist as soon as it became impossible to fake them by presenting Ukro junk as Russian, we can be pretty sure that MANY more were destroyed.
    And that is only before the summer struggle started, where 47th Brigade - the sole equipped with M2 - was decimated.
    This whole dumb discussion is made because of the 47thBde is being bleeded white now at Avdeyevka, and some materials were revealed with M2 being used as fire support.
    On one occasion, one Bradley found a column of MTLB and destroyed three of those.
    The masturbation orgy began at all ukrochannels for the reason and looks like our local emperor of Serbia was invited, too.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:02 pm

    I even told the troll that they initially supplied 50 Bradleys and ended up with about 190 then he still gets it wrong dunno Laughing

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:26 pm

    https://t.me/stepnoy_veter/4556

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:52 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    That's not even true they get to the frontline just fine again there are literal videos of it, The Ukie's problem here is they only have a handful of them and they have no means to repair them.
    Which is what I said would be the problem day 1 for them lack of proper logistics. You cannot except a handful of anything to change the tide of a war, but that doesn't mean they aren't slapping BMP's apart left and right on videos because they are
    The fact is they are doing well for an IFV in the conflict zone and are being use heavily in combat and Russia has yet to take them all out despite only a handful being given months ago, will they win the war hell no but they are doing well for themselves given the fact there was only 40 something given, so to say they are bad for war is just pure nonsense.
    Just like I have told clueless Western peeps, Russians tanks are good for what they are designed to do, yeah they have their weaknesses but all tanks do. Your personal bias does not dictate the reality of a weapons ability in war

    And again, you are opening your mouth proving no clue only.
    Not 40, but 186 Bradleys were supplied to Ukrs and that is the number revealed BY SEPTEMBER 2023.
    Before "mighty counteroffensive" Oryx provided detailed data of 53 pcs lost.
    As Oryx is a psyop made to fool the numbers and ceased to exist as soon as it became impossible to fake them by presenting Ukro junk as Russian, we can be pretty sure that MANY more were destroyed.
    And that is only before the summer struggle started, where 47th Brigade - the sole equipped with M2 - was decimated.
    This whole dumb discussion is made because of the 47thBde is being bleeded white now at Avdeyevka, and some materials were revealed with M2 being used as fire support.
    On one occasion, one Bradley found a column of MTLB and destroyed three of those.
    The masturbation orgy began at all ukrochannels for the reason and looks like our local emperor of Serbia was invited, too.

    I just need to say one thing to show you are full of shit.

    186 were pledged not delivered I know the source you are quoting and that's what it says, and under 50 units have been sent so far.

    I assume I do not need to explain to you what pledged means right? but I will anyways.

    Pledged means, we promise to send 186 units in total but they will not all be arriving at once.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:54 pm

    Mir wrote:I even told the troll that they initially supplied 50 Bradleys and ended up with about 190 then he still gets it wrong dunno Laughing

    I suggest you get your sources right before you insult someone, 186 have been pledged not delivered.

    and actually confirmed losses of Bradley's are around 20ish units.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:14 pm

    Lol. We have grown men buying into USG broadcasts of war shipments and Oryx confirmed kill counts.

    What next - are you going to tell me Santa is going to come down the chimney this evening to hand you presents too? Razz

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:25 pm

    lyle6 wrote:Lol. We have grown men buying into USG broadcasts of war shipments and Oryx confirmed kill counts.

    What next - are you going to tell me Santa is going to come down the chimney this evening to hand you presents too? Razz

    Sorry buddy, I don't go by "trust me bro"

    You want to prove me wrong show me the hard evidence then. but insulting or complaining when you openly lie and I call you on that BS isn't going to change anything just makes ya look foolish
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    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:34 pm

    A helpless example of murican troll Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  Belisarius Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:46 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    and actually confirmed losses of Bradley's are around 20ish units.


    Lost Armor has visual evidence of at least 42 destroyed Bradleys.
    https://lostarmour.info/armour

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:02 pm

    Can we stop this Bradley vs BMPn discussion here, 95% of it has nothing to do with this thread? It all belongs elsewhere.

    Back on topic.

    I think they meant 'struggles with' rather than "can't handle"

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:03 pm

    seigsolovyov wrote:

    That's not even true they get to the frontline just fine again there are literal videos of it, The Ukie's problem here is they only have a handful of them and they have no means to repair them.

    Lol they didn't make it to the front in Zaporozhye,  and our boys ended up capturing that piece of shit in Avdeevka when it showed up to the fight,

    Ergo anytime it showed up to the front for a fight, it got taken out as soon as it showed up


    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Which is what I said would be the problem day 1 for them lack of proper logistics. You cannot except a handful of anything to change the tide of a war, but that doesn't mean they aren't slapping BMP's apart left and right on videos because they are

    The Americans themselves don't have the logistics to repair them and procure them, that's why the Pentagon is crying about dipping into its own storages and not arming Ukraine

    The reality is the west doesn’t have the ability to sustain or fight a real war - This is what happened to western artillery systems as well, they don't have the barrels to sustain the fire rates of even 2000 a day by an artillery regiment

    Nor can western militaries repair them or bring them into theater fast enough

    It proves the superiority of Russian and soviet weapons for war

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    The fact is they are doing well for an IFV in the conflict zone and are being use heavily in combat and Russia has yet to take them all out despite only a handful being given months ago, will they win the war hell no but they are doing well for themselves given the fact there was only 40 something given, so to say they are bad for war is just pure nonsense.

    Lol this is a lie, they aren't being used heavily, anywhere they show up they get yeeted, captured, or evacuated and the Ukrainians are losing territory like in Klesheevka, NovoMikhailovka, and now Rabotino

    You are literally making shit up, and it's funny because all other western sources are themselves saying what shit American equipment is, that Russia is overwhelming the Ukrainians in spite of the Wonderwaffe

    Well I guess that's what happens when you have weapons that aren't meant for war


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:23 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:05 pm

    Alamo even provided stats from their favourite go-to man "Oryx" that 52 Bradleys were lost months ago already - and this was confirmed by CBS.
    We are now in December 2023. Back in January the Pentagon "pledged" a 109 Bradleys. This is what they got by September 2023:

    186 M-2A2 ODS and 4 M-7 BFIST.

    Here is what one of the Ukie drivers think of the Bradley Wunderwaffe:

    Ukrainian Serhiy Gavryliuk is a truck commander on a Bradley. A civilian until the war began last year, Gavryliuk received a month-long intensive training with the U.S. military in Germany. He told Williams that Bradleys have helped keep his fellow Ukrainian soldiers alive, and sometimes, have even deflected Russians without having to fire a shot.

    "It scares them," Gavryliuk said. "When we hear their radio and they hear that Bradley coming, they start to run away."

    The Bradley is adept at protecting its occupants against Russian forces, in part, because it was specifically designed to do so decades ago.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:13 pm

    20 ... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    https://t.me/intelslava/54044

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    JohninMK wrote:Can we stop this Bradley vs BMPn discussion here, 95% of it has nothing to do with this thread? It all belongs elsewhere.

    It belongs perfectly here John, but you are probably missing the cause.
    This whole moronic dispute raised by nafo a-holes was ignited by a targeted propaganda campaign that is being carried out at full swing.
    We had an incident in an ongoing battle for Avdieyvka, where an M2 targeted a column of MTLB and destroyed or damaged three of them.
    It was recorded.
    A whole propaganda campaign raised around that sole case, with multiple propaganda channels pushing that forward.
    Titles like "Bradley decimates Russian BMPs" were repeated in the best Goebbels style.
    People were fooled and tracked trucks, which MTLB is, were presented as BMP to create a new Wunderwaffle.
    This time called Bradley.

    Rambo is either dumb or shameless. Or both.

    Edit :
    A very interesting event.

    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/80030

    Ukrainian POWs are being escorted to the rear by the drone only, as soldiers have better things to do.
    I must tell you that the application of those drones is starting to scary me...


    Last edited by ALAMO on Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:37 pm

    so many articles about ceasefires but i dont see anything from .ru news websites scratch

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:45 pm

    Lancet vs. Gyurza-M.

    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/80057

    What makes it more tasty, is the fact that in Polish propaganda shitstream this particular boat - called Bucha - was described literally TWO days ago, as ... drone killer that does what?
    Right!
    Decimates Russkie drones.
    Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

    Post  Hole Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:23 pm

    To Arrow/ALAMO: Those Bradley in the short videos look slightly damaged. lol1

    Russia can repair all her stuff or produce new one. The Ukros can´t even change damaged tracks on their Bradleys.


    Decimates Russkie drones.
    Russkies waisted another drone on that boat.
    Strategy works! cheers
    lol1

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:46 pm

    They can fix that if only supplied with scotch tape!

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

    Post  VARGR198 Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:58 pm

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

    Post  dionis Mon Dec 25, 2023 2:32 am

    https://postlmg.cc/3WjcLDQd

    Helicopterpilot reportedly implied at least 2 Su-34 were indeed shot down (source reliable from previous experience? anyone know).

    There haven't been any videos of kitted FAB-500 attacks since against Krynky, which is telling.

    Knowing that Ukraine still has SAM assets, how are these jets going up without Kh-31P missiles always on board? (Ditto for cruise missile attacks on Kiev - why not have Kh-31P armed aircraft in Belarus shooting at active radars in Kiev?)

    Seems like the whole field of anti-radiation missile warfare is one big Hail Mary.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #51

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