Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9

Yeah but Gary, come on, calling someone a fucking retard and everyone else fucking niggers might be juuuuuuuuuuuust a little bit over the top. But hey, if you're ok with that, then I hope you're ok with someone replying in kind. Problem with that is then a great forum become a clusterfuck of gumbalufguf, if you know what I mean. Anyhoo...

We are all adults here and we have a complaints based system... being fooled by Kievs propaganda and loosing your panties and being called a faggot for it... I rather suspect when we find out it is Kievs propaganda we accept the crown of being a faggot and understand we were wrong.

The amusing thing is that when I do get complaints and I check up the history of the relationship between the two protagonists that often it has been going of for some time and that each has been abusing the other for quite some time... do I ban them both?

For some a friend and an ally is someone who will defend what you say and who you are no matter who wrong it is, well that is stupid... when your friend is being stupid you don't back him up, you tell him he is wrong and to pull his head in before it gets knocked off... the good friend gives good advice... it keeps you out of jail.

Some people wont listen to the voice of reason either.

The people who never abuse anyone else are never abused for their views.

Then people will be wondering what ghost penetrated their airspace undetected under their noses and created that much damage and watch how freaked out they'll be. More importantly, the benefit that would give the Su-57. What a perfect opportunity.

Or is it a trap and that is what they are hoping for.

Some people don't like to lose anything at all and will take no risks. Others will say that the Su-57 would fly such missions... that is what they are designed for, so flying a few of them to within Kh-69 range to take out those airfields and any other aircraft nearby that might also be used to attack Russia or Ukraine might be a valuable learning experience... just don't puss out if a lone Patriot battery hiding with everything turned off in the middle of the Ukraine waiting for the signal from HATO intel that the planes are coming past soon gets a lucky hit as they head back to base.

Most of the banter between adult males where I come from is derogatory so you have to be a bit thick skinned about things.

Anyone can say I am wrong and what I say is stupid (especially if it is wrong), but beware that personal attacks on admin and staff (ie me and George) wont be treated like light banter... I am not paid to do this and if I think this is all a waste of time I do have an off switch as well as ban switch that goes from 1 day to forever.

I think everyone could see there wasn't any damage to the aircraft, even though it was hard to tell for sure. But there was something weird about the mesh netting. And why just that one parking spot like you said?

As Mir points out above, modern fighter planes have chemical coatings and are sheet metal and have fuel tanks inside them that are highly flammable... something like a helicopter made of Titanium might leave a shell if it is burned like a Hind, but when it is aluminium framed like a Hip they normally burn to a pile of ash.

In the jet era the quest for more speed coincided with the swept angle of the wing - so yes it does play a critical part in the ability to fly at supersonic speed.

Which is ironic because the first officially supersonic plane had a straight wing but of course it was rocket powered and not very practical for anything but breaking the speed barrier. The F-104 has an almost straight wing too, but it is a rather small wing.

I doubt they'll risk losing some Su-57s & pilots, or any other planes for that matter, in such a raid; the Iskanders from Crimea & Calibers from ships/subs, besides ALCMs/Kinzhals can do it better & for a lot le$$.

There is that as well... the payoff of a successful attack by stealth fighters is offset by the risk of losing any of them, plus the fact that HATO air defences don't seem to be that amazing so launching some Vulkans or Granits from old stocks would be a good way of using up old weapons to hit targets you want to hit.

Regarding the Su-57 wing, its leading edge surfaces and the levicons mean you can make the wing profile very thin and very low drag, yet for takeoff and landing you can drop those surfaces down to give a curved high lift profile to low speed flight and very high speed flight.

It is a very clever combination that effectively changes the lift and drag profile of the wing and body surface in terms of lifting performance.

They said they were pausing the development of the long range ramjet powered R-77 so the upgraded rocket powered model could be rushed into service faster... I suspect with the upgraded rocket powered R-77 now in service they will go back to the jet powered R-77... perhaps even transferring from a ramjet powered version to a scramjet powered model.

The scramjet and ramjet would not be completely different designs a bit like the difference between a turbo fan and a turbo jet engine really, but the flight performance difference would be dramatic with all the same issues.

Plasma engine ignition should allow engine restarts across a range of altitudes and flight speeds, and flying rather faster for a similar period of time should allow a significant improvement in performance.

AAMs moving at mach 9 plus would be impossible to dodge... 1 second before impact they would be about 3km away...

I heard rumours they were going to upgrade the Kh-31 to scramjet propulsion too... that would make it a rather interesting weapon... if high accuracy could be achieved it would be rather potent against air and ground targets... and for a missile in the 600-800kg weight range could be carried by most fighter aircraft quite easily.

From a PiBu Russias air launched weapons from 2017 it mentions the K-77M as the Izd180 using a solid rocket engine, but mentions a Izd180PD version that uses a ramjet engine.

He mentions a project izd 270 to replace the medium and extended range K-77M type missiles, for which no information is known.

Quite useless to have it a mach 9. The radar inside won't follow. It's hard to dodge a fast missile but it's not easy for the missile to touch a target too.

Heavy Russian missiles have long had warheads with special warhead options... in fact a missile moving a mach 9+ doesn't need a powerful explosive in its warhead... a centreline column of HE surrounded by a column of cubes and odd shaped fragments would be all you would need... from 3km away the radar on the missile tracking the target with active radar tracking will know exactly where the aircraft will be in 1 seconds time and it can fly through that point in space... it can calculate a time to set off the warhead to scatter 60kgs of metal cubes and fragments so that the cone of fragments will fill a large area around where the Air to Air missile passes as it approaches the expected position of the target, which will be shredded by the passing of metal fragments moving three times faster than a high velocity rifle bullet.

If an AAM flying at mach 9 can't hit a subsonic or supersonic flying target then how do you think a mach 7 plus S-400 can hit a ballistic target moving at 4.8km/s... which is mach 15 BTW.

Explosive fragmentation warheads have traditionally been used to hit manouverable targets without getting direct contact with the target.

The manouver limit on the target in the 1 second it has before impact limits how far from the calculated point of impact it can be and the difference is not big even with the most manouverable target.

It will do 1 km before the wings start correcting the flight path once radar send info if it manage to detect the target.

The radar in the incoming missile wont start tracking the target 1 second before impact... it will have been tracking the target for a while and determined the interception point carefully and continuously until impact or near flypast.

Even ground based radars have hard time locking on very fast targets, let alone a small radar with 10km range inboard a missile.

A radar mounted on a missile that moves at 3km/s would anticipate all targets to be fast moving relative to itself.... including stationary ground based objects.

The rumor i heared basically implies that the internet mistakes izd180 for R-77M, whilr its actual name is izd 170M. Meanwhile, izd 180 is a scramjet powered missile with an AESA seeker, and four square intakes. It's still a rumor though, KTRV is one of the most secretive russian corporations in terms of their products.

Yes, it is rather unusual for the K-77 to be izd 170 and the K-77M to be a different number, and that could be a mistake, but the heritage of the missile has to be taken into account because the first missiles, also called R-77 and RVV-AE... the former being Soviet domestic and the latter being for export... the RVV-AE are izd190 it seems according to PiBu... With the breakup of the Soviet Union the production was moved to Moscow and the vast majority of missiles were the latter export missiles of which the Russians bought a few batches... by 2006 about the only inservice fighters that could even use the R-77 were late model Su-25T and TMs and MiG-29SM aircraft so they didn't need thousands of missiles anyway.

The R-77-1 is described as the izd170-1 and a couple were made in 2004 for testing on Su-30SM but the aircraft were not ready. In 2010 they successfully test launched them from Su-27SM3 aircraft and the missile entered production. The RVV-SD is this missile for export.

The K-77M is described as a second stage upgrade of the R-77 missile optimised for internal carriage.

As I mentioned above this information is from 2017 when this PiBu book was published.

Unfortunately we won't know if it happens or not as due to secrecy of information. All we will get is some info trickled and that's it.

But I agree with Lancelot, this should be mass produced even in its current form rather than waiting for the upgrade.

Besides engines, what else does the upgrade consist of? GaN instead of GaAS modules? My understanding they swapped to GaN before mass production was even announced. Maybe stronger modules rather than the 30W I suppose.

But what else?

So instead, it's already superior to Su-35 so it only makes sense to mass produce it. In future when the upgrade is ready, start producing that and slowly upgrade current models. Or have the base model just replace most other of the older jets. In which can be donated to nations like Syria and North Korea.