Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

thegopnik wrote:So uhh GarryB is it OK to start a thread on the general thread on how to survive a nuclear fallout like, move far enough from cities, buy a lot of canned goods for storage in basement, a gun, an anti-radiation suit, a truck without fancy electronics, radiation detector, etc?

Invest in property in New Zealand. Christchurch is nice if you don't mind the odd earthquake or two. The crazed shooter was... untypical.

mr_hd wrote:What arrogance from Putin... nevertheless I am sure Ukraine does not care what is his opinion or to be more precise they care to learn his concerns and do EXACTLY opposite. They will not stop, it does not matter if it takes 10-20-30 or more years... Russia is now in permanent war ladies and gentlemen.

Forget 30

Ukraine will run out of carcasses in 3 years

I say bring on the permanent war  

Big_Gazza wrote:

thegopnik wrote:So uhh GarryB is it OK to start a thread on the general thread on how to survive a nuclear fallout like, move far enough from cities, buy a lot of canned goods for storage in basement, a gun, an anti-radiation suit, a truck without fancy electronics, radiation detector, etc?

Invest in property in New Zealand.  Christchurch is nice if you don't mind the odd earthquake or two.  The crazed shooter was...  untypical.  

The Pacific will most likely suffer from some major nuclear tsunamis (and fallout) - I would pic a spot right in the middle of Australia, but then you'd probably die of hunger and thirst anyway!

turned it around 180 degrees

360 degrees, according to some western politicians.

The crazed shooter was... untypical.

The crazy PM was more concerning.

is very out of shape.

And all those other problems like pronouns or uniforms.
Is your commanding officer a he/she/them?
How do you identify?
Do you wear a skirt or trousers to your uniform?

In case of nuclear holocaust there are enough spare missiles to dedicate a few of them to the main settlements in Australia, New Zealand and also Patagonia (where some western plutocrats and oligarchs are buying land to have their safe haven)

I doubt any place will be really safe in case of Nuclear war between NATO +Japan+ Australia block and Russia+China+ Iran.

I really hope that we will never experience such war

Putin still hopes for good relations with the West and signing another junk agreement like Minsk and Istanbul. Where the West will deceive him once again.

Putin will work with all sorts of countries and groups, including the Taleban and the Saudis and Turkey.

It is not the position of a leader of a country to pick and choose who to trade and cooperate with and who to sanction and cancel and attack economically and politically... that is the wests game.

The west might plan to fool him again, but I think any agreement signed will be water tight with consequences written in.

The real irony is that the anti Russian actions of the west is destroying the west... if they dropped the sanctions and started treating Russia and China with respect they might avoid the collapse they are heading for otherwise... but remember they are not very smart and think Russia and Putin are just as much evil self centred bastards as they are... and even when Russia does not act out like the west does, they still claim they are the same or worse than the west in terms of evil.

Right. Interestingly, during the negotiations in Istanbul, Russia did not want these districts.

They had not voted to join the Russian federation then and the Russian Federation had not accepted their request to join.

They were still Ukrainian.

It took 8 years of murder from Kiev to make them change their minds about being Ukrainian.

It is known that the West will not participate in these negotiations and talks. So, in time, Russia may order even more.

The Russians have said before, the longer Kiev leaves it the worse the offer will be for them.

What arrogance from Putin... nevertheless I am sure Ukraine does not care what is his opinion or to be more precise they care to learn his concerns and do EXACTLY opposite.

What arrogance?

Zelensky demands like he is winning. Putins demands respect the referendums and voice of the people in these former Ukrainian regions to join the Russian Federation.

We are all hoping Biden and Zelensky will laugh and say it needs to be sorted on the battlefield because in a years time the deal is going to be even worse and will never be this good again.

They will not stop, it does not matter if it takes 10-20-30 or more years... Russia is now in permanent war ladies and gentlemen.

I would rate the Chechens ability to create a forever war much higher than Ukraine... and how is that working out?

It is not about the west, it is to show the rest of the world (Africa, Asia, South America) that Russia does not want war.

The really amusing thing is that HATO will not accept a Russian victory in political terms, but in terms of military I don't think they could stop them, and I don't think HATO politicians realise that sending HATO troops to Odessa might just get the locals to start shooting HATO troops and stirring up a bit of insurrection for themselves.

Russia knows it has been hitting HATO officials helping the Ukraine in this conflict and they wont avoid hitting HATO formations located anywhere in the country... in fact considering this whole situation was created by HATO who has been sitting on the sidelines all this time shouting out instructions and advice to the nazis the Russians have been fighting they might like to get a shot at such participants directly.

"Kyiv rejected Russia's new peace proposal.

We knew they would... they have painted themselves into a corner. The opposition to Zelensky however might be thinking that is not a bad deal considering the alternative is defeat on the battlefield and universal conscription leading to the collapse of the country... men and women sent to the front lines means industry and retain and social structure breaks down.

ah for that they can found a nova Ukraina in Canada or Australia instead of polluting the old continent.

Well then I would say either the US or keep it in Europe... let them reap what they sowed for themselves.

If Putin thinks Russia should give up and just have the 5 oblasts, he needs to step down. OR be stepped down.
End of story.

They are just the opening topics... they will also have to discuss handing over the people they have documented evidence that have committed crimes to be tried too of course... plus we can be assured that Kiev will not even consider such a shift from their peace plan...

At this point the US is unlikely to concede to Putin's proposal anyway - and he knows it.

Biden is not going to admit defeat and deal with the man he has been calling the devil all this time just before an election.

Talk of 12 trillion in resources handed to Russia and also China... it is out now so they have to fight to the bitter end... or should I say give loans and promises of HATO membership to the bitter end of the Ukraine.

The longer this proxy-war continues the more territorial claims will be made from the Russian side - including Odessa etc.

And I think Putin is smart enough to know they wont accept this offer because that would be smart and minimise their losses.

Putin looks weak when proposing these peace deals...Why is he doing this publicly?

As mentioned above this is just before the meeting in Switzerland and of course a HATO meeting in July and gives lots of ammunition to those really interested in actual peace, rather than the rape and pillage zealots wanting to strip mine the Ukraine for everything it is worth but needing to remove the Russian occupiers first. They have been trying to remove the people since 2014 and the situation is rather worse now than then for them.

The interesting development of all of this is that in a few months most folks from north west Ukraine will be ready welcome the Russian troops as liberators

Well they have been told the areas occupied by the Russians including the Crimea look like the Gaza strip... but when they find out which side has been rebuilding and restoring life and which has just been pretending to build fortifications and the money all going missing I think their attitudes to Russia and Russians might soften a little.

The West has been at war with Russia since at least the Napoleonic period (Napoleon and then the "great game" between the British and Russians over central Asia) and maybe as far back as Ekaterina, hell possibly as far back as Peter.

New Zealand is a British colony for the most part and we have a harbour gun here to protect us from the Russians when we realised the Royal Navy was too thinly stretched to protect all her colonies and our navy was a few row boats and a dinghy. The gun here in Dunedin was built in 1889 and was all about stopping the Russians and nothing to do with communism.

There may need to be something left that can be called 'Ukraine' to hang all the debts on.

And that is the problem for the west... all their donations are turning into loans... all this lend lease will need to be paid for and you can bet Russia wont pay.

Ukrainian Gaza. I'm all for it if the Banderites get the same sort of treatment as the Palestinians do from Israel.

How about a reverse Minsk agreement where Russia patrols the border with the EU but the region gets autonomy and neutrality and they can speak any language they like.

Bite your tongue... we have too many already thank you very much!

I was waiting for a response... France and Germany and the Netherlands and Poland love these nazis so much send them there... including the ones that went to Canada and Australia and the rest of the world.

Why is Putin reiterating a proposal for peace negotiations at a time when NATO is hell-bent on escalating and talking about entering the war?

Perhaps he wants them to enter the war... dead bodies going back to Europe might stir up a real reaction in the west which is what it might actually take to end this conflict.

Maybe he wants to accentuate the fact that the deals in Minsk and Istanbul were then and this is now and the next deals are not going to be as good as this one... the longer you take the worse the deal for you.

It will only embolden NATO more.

He is basically saying we are keeping what we have taken and expect Kievs forces to leave the entirety of these regions before peace talks can begin about what happens next. These bits are Russian and are not up for negotiation. What else we demand will depend on how long this takes and what you do regarding attacks on Russia and sending F-16s and Mirage fighters or French troops.

The rest of the world gets it.

It's not them a message should be sent to.

I suspect it is a clear message to any countries going to the Swiss "peace" conference on where Russia stands. Kiev might say all sorts of things but they now know what Putin has said and can measure what Kiev says against that.

Kiev will of course be claiming Putin wont stop at the Ukraine and will invade Moldova and Poland and Romania and of course also the Baltic states to liberate Kaliningrad etc etc.

This statement clearly shows Russia is not interested in invading HATO, but will fight them if they start something.

The problem is that Ukraine should have been already a neutral country since 1992.

All of Eastern Europe and former Soviet States were supposed to be neutral... the Russians thought they would pull their military out of Europe and the US would do the same.

For some reason the British have a hate hard on for Russia since they were hostile around the time of Elizabeth I.

It is funny.... the British never stop talking about the Russians... it is like an obsession... and it isn't really mutual... Russia does not seem to be very fixated with the British at all.

According to Western data, North Korea has just delivered 10,000 containers containing 5 million artillery shells to Russia.

Western data have to explain why the Russians are firing thousands of artillery shells every day for the last three years but they have no shells to give to the Ukrainian forces despite giving billions more in dollar terms for this conflict.

The west has scoured the world looking for ammo and a lot of it was very low quality cheap crap.

I rather suspect any North Korean ammo will be good quality... they take their artillery very seriously.

I wish he'd just start saying the truth. That the Pukraine belongs to Russia and GAYTO needs an almightly slap.
You can't end 30 yrs of Nazi/similar brainwashing in a deal with pathological liars.

They can deal with the Chechens then the Ukrainians wont be impossible... especially when reality can be used to prove your point... take some Ukrainians for a trip through Chechnia and Crimea and Mariapol... and then take them back home to where they live in the Ukraine held by pro western forces and let them contrast and compare futures.

Better mobilize another million men according to hysterical doomers.

The fact of the matter is that for every man on the front line you will have 4-5 providing supplies and command and control... 700K means maybe 250K fighting soldiers.

Putin knew that Kiev, Brussels and Washington will not accept Russia's terms.
So, off come the gloves... and it is the West's fault, they should have accepted Russia's terms just like they should have accepted Russia's terms in February-March 2022.

When they advance and take more regions and those regions organise referendums and decide enough is enough and to join the Russian Federation because anything left neutral will be claimed by the west based on the money they are owed... and the next offer and maybe they will realise the sooner they accept an offer the better their result because it is only going to get worse.

Maybe challenge NATO harder, by hitting drones over Black Sea? But that's about it.

Knocking down HATO drones will likely start with HATO basing of Kievs F-16s in HATO countries as clear evidence of direct support... gloves off.

So uhh GarryB is it OK to start a thread on the general thread on how to survive a nuclear fallout like, move far enough from cities, buy a lot of canned goods for storage in basement, a gun, an anti-radiation suit, a truck without fancy electronics, radiation detector, etc?

Might be a good idea...

Yes, its all political kabuki, but the NATOstani faggots are not the intended audience. Russia is demonstrating to the non-Western industrialised world and the "global south" the feckless intransigence of the collective West and their neutered dog Zelensky.

Their little getaway in Switzerland will have Kiev and the US and EU and HATO countries telling everyone that Russia is out of control and when they have finished with Ukraine they will invade Europe so everyone should act together against Russia before it is too late.

Well this message makes it clear Putin is interested in peace and is not interested at the moment of taking all the territory of the Ukraine under its control.

In fact they only wanted Crimea in the Istanbul talks but since then four new regions have voted to join the Russian federation and Russia is legally bound by its own rules not to give those regions away to anyone.

Russia is winning on the batlefield, her economy is growing strongly, and the public are firmly behind the government. Fck me, but if it was raining gold coins some people here would complain that they got hit in the head..

At a time when her enemies are not in such good economic shape and wasting more and more money on the gamble to hurt Russia.

The issue with this is that a huge portion of the US population is very out of shape. The Draft wouldn't do much.

And one of those countries is producing millions of artillery shells a year and the other is not. Being fat wont protect you from shrapnel.

360 degrees, according to some western politicians.

Dead or alive classic...

In case of nuclear holocaust there are enough spare missiles to dedicate a few of them to the main settlements in Australia, New Zealand and also Patagonia (where some western plutocrats and oligarchs are buying land to have their safe haven)

The rich Americans who seem to be coming buy large plots of land up central otago... a pretty sparse area... you could nuke Auckland and Hamilton and get more than half of New Zealands population but the rest of the country would be fine... in fact we would probably appreciate the quiet...

I doubt any place will be really safe in case of Nuclear war between NATO +Japan+ Australia block and Russia+China+ Iran.

I really hope that we will never experience such war

The fact of the matter is that those who survive had better be strong and resourceful and ruthless because law and order will break down and it will be the law of the gun... which I am sure some gun nuts will think is wonderful but anyone can shoot a gun and it doesn't matter if you are Michael Gross from Tremors, or Michael Gross from Family Ties, anyone can take a hunting rifle with a scope and shoot you without warning and it is over.

After a few months finding food is going to be a problem and many will be too upset because they can't get on Tik Tok... or this website.

ucmvulcan wrote:This is a last chance for peace before we kick you a** statement by VVP.  

Yeah, with one small 'but'

Being that they're not impressed, they don't think you have the balls to follow through with any threat or retaliation, evidenced by this bluster and demonstration in the first place; and even if you did work up the courage, they'd still kick your ass. Your troops will all run and flee at the slightest approach of the US Marine Corps, together with your rusty tanks and inaccurate missiles and all the rest of it.
As in fact they entirely anticipated that the Russians would at the start of the Ukrainian counter-offensive last summer - and when it didn't turn out that way, they probably persuaded themselves that it was just because the Ukrainians were incompetent and had backward training, backward equipment and were basically just the same Russians, ultimately.

VVP, they despise you and your entire nation. Not only despise, but hate, not only hate but look-down upon, not only look-down upon, but belittle in all seriousness, not only belittle in all seriousness - but want to destroy, and annihilate. As all their newspaper articles overflowing with bile and warmongering and calls to dismantle Russia should tell you. They literally convinced themselves that your economy was the size of Spain, that you're a gas station posing as a country, and that you're a weak pushover that the Ukrainians alone can destroy. This wasn't just rhetoric, it was belief. And they're not about to let go of these perceptions now, they're doubling down on them. Because it's the only thing left for them to do. And the only way out of this is to demonstrate both resolve and capability, the minute they step over the latest red line that you've set and dare you. Anger and Telegram tantrums and naval exercises and new offers of negotiations will not help. They have all been attempted previously to no avail and there is no reason to repeat them.

GarryB wrote:I was waiting for a response... France and Germany and the Netherlands and Poland love these nazis so much send them there... including the ones that went to Canada and Australia and the rest of the world.

As far as Germany, Netherlands and co, they deserve the consequences.
I just don't want them in Italy. I will be glad to leave Germany if the living and working conditions improve in my country.

I would not mind as well to look for opportunities in Russia after the relationship between our countries have at least a bit relaxed and travel is easier. (I have old relatives and I do not want to need to spend more than a day and a lot of money to visit them).

Also I would like my kids to grow up in a place with more traditional values, even if it would be possibly an initial problem yet another language for them.

From Putin's words, in Russia Italians are still seen in a more positive way than most other europeans. So maybe there are still chances.

Hopefully there will be opportunities in Odessa (it is by the sea, the weather is better than in Sankt Petersburg, Moscow or Kazan and it is closer to Italy) after it will have been freed.

As far as Nordic countries like Sweden and Finland, which recently became extremely hostile and hating of Russia, it would be interested to see what happens when the Neonazi gangs from Ukrainians will start fighting against the gangs from the other "refugees" groups.

In a couple of generations Finnish and Swedish people will be a protected group to visit in zoos

Putin actually gave Ukraine a fair deal. For this war to continue both sides might have to start recruiting in the third world. Then there will be epic war porn

Russian MoD reporting 2010 Ukrainian casualties over the past 24 hours.

They finally put that fire out.

Three days later, firefighters in the Kyiv region managed to extinguish a powerful fire at an industrial facility that arose after a Russian strike.

Russian troops advanced deep into the defence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Kharkov, 06.15.2024.

Ministry of Defense: Russian troops advanced deep into the defence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Kharkov.

During the offensive in the Kharkov direction, units of the North and West military groups advanced deep into the defence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and defeated the Ukrainian troops, the Ministry of Defence reports.

The department’s Telegram channel indicates that in the Northern direction, the personnel and equipment of the 71st Jaeger Brigade and the 125th Territorial Defence Brigade in the area of ​​Volchansk and Ternova were destroyed.

Seven counterattacks by the 36th Marine Brigade and the 13th National Guard Brigade were also repulsed.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces' losses amounted to up to 350 people, two tanks, three vehicles, a D-30 howitzer and two Bukovel-AD electronic warfare stations.

In addition, in the Western direction, Russian troops occupied more advantageous positions and defeated the 14th, 63rd, 116th mechanized brigades, the 117th technical defense brigade and the 13th national guard brigade near Sinkovka, Petropavlovka, Dronovka, Grigorovka and Chervona Dibrovy.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces lost up to 495 people and three infantry fighting vehicles.

Two M777 howitzers, an FH-70 howitzer, a 2A65 Msta-B howitzer, a 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled gun, a D-30 howitzer and a Grad MLRS were destroyed.

The total number of Ukrainian Armed Forces losses per day was more than 845 people.

https://vz.ru/news/2024/6/15/1273248.html

With the massive increase in the use of loitering munitions and swarm drones infantry has become extremely vulnerable. The importance of infantry has decreased massively.

Not really. You can have all those wonderful game changers but you still need to occupy something with someone.

A CNN journalist said what surprised him aboard the Admiral Gorshkov in Cuba, 06.15.2024.

CNN journalist: Residents of Cuba were able to freely film on board the Admiral Gorshkov.

Residents of Cuba received a unique opportunity to board the frigate Admiral Gorshkov and film there, which was encouraged, US correspondent Patrick Oppmann said in a report for CNN.

According to him, in his 12 years of living in Cuba, such a large convoy had never been seen on the island. He was also surprised that hundreds of Cubans could easily board the Russian frigate, and they were allowed to film using their phones, RIA Novosti reports .

Oppmann considers the arrival of Russian Navy ships in Cuba as a signal for the United States. According to him, the presence of the Russian fleet in the port of Havana suggests that Russia may respond to the West for placing weapons on the Russian border.

https://vz.ru/news/2024/6/15/1273284.html

RTN wrote:With the massive increase in the use of loitering munitions and swarm drones infantry has become extremely vulnerable. The importance of infantry has decreased massively.

Well, drones are quite effective but at the end it's still the one with the bigger gun that wins. Russian guided fab 1500 are doing much more damages than some quadcopters with a grenande attached to it.

Same for Palestine, israeli bombs are doing much more damage than hamas RPGs

You can also compare the state of civilian infrastructures. Russian and Israel clean, Ukro and Gaza destroyed.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2024/06/13/1043687-chto-korabli-vmf-delayut https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/13/russia-nuclear-drills-nato/

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/13/russians-s-500-crimea/

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/06/french-mirage-2000-fighters-are-headed-to-ukraine-heres-how-kyiv-will-use-them/

https://original.antiwar.com/John_Zavales/2024/06/13/countdown-to-zelenskys-peace-summit/

https://youtu.be/JDQspro1xV0