Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Tsavo Lion wrote:
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/13/russians-s-500-crimea/

Anyone ever found that "S-500" site tho. and if it's operational there would be multiple batteries of them already and by rules, Moscow will receive them first before other units, like S-400.

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/06/french-mirage-2000-fighters-are-headed-to-ukraine-heres-how-kyiv-will-use-them/

This is rather bold claim tho especially the RCS part, also the 160 km range envelope claimed for R-37. 160 km range was range for R-33S, while R-37 has been proven that it can kill something from a legit 300 km range.

the article has some mistakes, but the info. is interesting!

https://youtu.be/CDPCdVC0Ipc https://youtu.be/fTqfiSdZBYc

It's amazing that these buffoons are still entertaining the fiction of the "Ukraine" using the Mirages.
Unlike with the F-16s, there hasn't even been an attempt to pretend at indigenous capabilities by means of that much advertised Ukrainian pilot training scheme; which wasn't even particularly believable in that case either.

These are NATO fighters being piloted by NATO pilots operating in the NATO command structure (or you think they'll be taking orders from the coke-head in Kiev?) and if they attack targets in Russia, or decide to fly out of Romania or Poland for their sorties - then that's an act of war.

Am saying this before anyone here tells anyone else to turn the other cheek. You go do that on your own dime for your own issues if you wish.

flamming_python wrote:Am saying this before anyone here tells anyone else to turn the other cheek. You go do that on your own dime for your own issues if you wish.

You keep bringing that up but the consensus here has been NATO airbases hosting "Ukrainian" F-16's or Mirages will be destroyed with the first sortie flown from there. Putin has said as much himself.

Looking at the map, we also know these planes will most likely come from Romania directly or fly through Romanian and Moldovan airspace to attack Crimea. A direct flight from Poland to the Russian border would be over 1300 kilometers and the combat range, even with external fuel tanks would be compromised by flying at low altitudes to avoid detection from Russian and Belarusian radars.

Honestly, the Russians have more to fear from Ukrainian Sukhois and MiGs modified to carry NATO missiles.

RTN wrote:With the massive increase in the use of loitering munitions and swarm drones infantry has become extremely vulnerable. The importance of infantry has decreased massively.

The use of drones has significantly degraded the effectiveness of armor and artillery close to the line of contact. Warfare has returned to an attritional art where numbers matter. Distributed infantry - light infantry moving fast on dirt bikes or quads with mobile high-tech weapons and ability to target the enemy with standoff weapons is now the name of the game. In other words, demographics and the political ability to sustain losses, matter like they always have. If Russia had the population of China, this war would already be over.

calripson wrote:

The use of drones has significantly degraded the effectiveness of armor and artillery close to the line of contact. Warfare has returned to an attritional art where numbers matter. Distributed infantry - light infantry moving fast on dirt bikes or quads with mobile high-tech weapons and ability to target the enemy with standoff weapons is now the name of the game. In other words, demographics and the political ability to sustain losses, matter like they always have. If Russia had the population of China, this war would already be over.

Is not so much that technology affected the nature of the fighting

Nor does the population disparity really have to do with that

But the political strategy and the very approach to fighting the war

The SMO was initially conceived as a rapid operation to intimidate the Ukrainian leadership to agree to a specific set of goals set by the Russian leadership

In that it failed, whereas it succeeded to force Ukraine to the negotiating table, it failed to introduce any real consequences for the Ukrainian state and so they were able to keep fighting as the west supplied weapons and ammunition to them to keep up the fighting, and they mobilized a population that had not been forced to flee as refugees, but lived in comfortable homes and cities where the war was a faraway thing

So the Russian strategy has evolved , as the political leadership has begun to realize that a negotiated settlement is not at all possible

That’s why the Russian aerial campaign has become not only more intense, but more vicious in its selection of targets

You’ll note that the electrical grid and by extension of that public utilities is now being targeted

Large parts of the country run off generators now, and sewage is failing in places like Kiev, Poltava, Kharkov, Sumy, Dnepropetrovsk with some places having less than 4 hours of electricity per day

Eventually this all will be destroyed and it will force Ukrainians to flee the country as it will be unlivable

This is how wars are supposed to be fought , because their goal is to impose an unconditional surrender of the enemy

Putin has only realized this now and while attrition has served its purpose, he understands that the restrictions and limitations given into the Russian military, and the rules of engagement must become lifted and non restrictive

Once the energy system is fully destroyed, as well as the European transmission systems and load balancing systems and substations which handle European supply

The VKS will switch to remaining civilian infrastructure and force an exodus of Ukrainians

Had this been done for some months prior to invasion

Ukraine would have already collapsed and there wouldn’t be any men to draft as most would have just fled by now

Attrition and maneuver are not mutually exclusive doctrines or ideas, they are hand in hand a part of war and the strategies used by the leadership of both sides

The Russian general staff has had this plan in its desk for a while now, only recently has Putin decided to approach this from another angle

Look at TCC officials now fighting against civilians in broad daylight

That is the beginning of societal collapse and will lead to a collapse as at the frontline as well

By then the positional fighting will be seen less and less as Ukrainian military is reduced to volksturm and the Russian army will “maneuver” through a lot of unpopulated territory and empty land

Ofc until Ukrainian society is totally destroyed, it will be “meat grinders” and “depopulation by artillery”

But once the Ukro remaining population flees and the countries important infrastructure is crippled , Russia will quickly move throughout the country

Eh, che! Echate un vistazo a esto. (Hey, man! Take a look at this):

Cuban President Visits Russian Ships in Havana Port, 06.16.2024.

A Russian Northern Fleet naval strike force, including the nuclear-powered Yasen-class Kazan cruise missile submarine, the Admiral Gorshkov frigate, the Akademik Pashin supply tanker, and the Nikolai Chiker rescue tug, entered the port of Havana on Wednesday as part of a long voyage.

Cuban leader Miguel Diaz-Canel Bermudez said he boarded Russian frigate the Admiral Gorshkov, which arrived in Havana, and greeted Russian sailors.

"Today we toured the interior of the frigate Admiral Gorshkov and the deck of the submarine Kazan, ships of the Russian Navy on an official visit to the Port of Havana. It was a wonderful and pleasant day, even with the incessant rain. Welcome, friends from Russia," the president wrote.

“Welcome, friends from Russia”: Cuban President greets Russian sailors

Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel Bermudez visited Russian ships docked in the port of Havana and greeted the sailors.

“Today we toured the interior of the frigate Admiral Gorshkov and the deck of the submarine Kazan, vessels of the Russian Navy, which are on official visit in the port of Havana,” Diaz-Canel wrote on the X social media platform.

“Impressive and pleasant afternoon, even under the persistent rain. Welcome, friends from Russia,” the Cuban leader added, saluting Russian servicemen.

The official visit of the Russian delegation under the command of Vice Admiral Mikhail Neupokoyev will last from June 12 to 17.

https://sputnikglobe.com/20240616/cuban-president-visits-russian-ships-in-havana-port-1118979609.html

Being that they're not impressed, they don't think you have the balls to follow through with any threat or retaliation, evidenced by this bluster and demonstration in the first place; and even if you did work up the courage, they'd still kick your ass. Your troops will all run and flee at the slightest approach of the US Marine Corps, together with your rusty tanks and inaccurate missiles and all the rest of it.

What you describe is a problem for the west and not for Russia.

Western politicians are idiots and they clearly have idiots advising them.

Their smart advisors clearly gave inconvenient advice so they were replaced by idiot yes men long ago.

This is not going to fix itself when there are no consequences and Russia taking Ukraines Black Sea coast is likely one of the better consequences for the west and Kiev rejecting Putins offer.

Essentially it is Putins offer or continued war... and they are losing the war so even if they don't like Putins offer it remains the best option for them moving forward.

The longer it takes for them to work that out the worse the offer will become over time.

So the dumber the western politicians are and the more stupid their advisors are the better for Russia... and honestly the Ukrainian people too.

VVP, they despise you and your entire nation. Not only despise, but hate, not only hate but look-down upon, not only look-down upon, but belittle in all seriousness, not only belittle in all seriousness - but want to destroy, and annihilate.

The ones in power very much do... if they had managed as much of a turnaround in their own countries that he has managed in Russia they would be treated like kings by their respective populations. Instead there is resentment and hate and so they want to redirect that hate to Putin for doing this to the west... for forcing them down this path, for leading them to their own destruction... which is ironic because Putin was always the only path away from that end.

They took the colonial white european path and it is destroying them and they don't know what to do because they painted themselves into a corner and have no one else to blame but themselves... and a western politician never takes any blame for anything.

They have all been attempted previously to no avail and there is no reason to repeat them.

And the irony is that all the talk about Russia being weak and drunk and corrupt, is mirrored by how amazing and powerful HATO is... so it is not just about how incompetent and weak the Russians are it is the feeling that if they just untied their own hands and sent in one brigade of French soldiers they would sort it all out and lead the way to victory...

Ironically the best thing for Russia is for HATO to follow though on their threats because that frees up Russias hands to do things that probably need to be done.

From Putin's words, in Russia Italians are still seen in a more positive way than most other europeans. So maybe there are still chances.

Your current leader is not pro Russia nor pro Putin, but equally she is not stupid and is calling out stupid when she hears it, which is a sign she is more interested in Italy than in the wishes of the US or Brussels.

Hopefully there will be opportunities in Odessa (it is by the sea, the weather is better than in Sankt Petersburg, Moscow or Kazan and it is closer to Italy) after it will have been freed.

I would like to see a land bridge to the Danube for Russia and also land access to Moldova... not for occupation, just to make hot heads cool down and to let those people in those separatist regions have options... it would be good for people who live there too.

Trade options would improve... Russia has always been keen to trade with Europe so if Moldova is not bullied by the west to not trade with Russia I think their economy will improve with trade with Russia.

For all its talk about being a civilised garden, Europe is more a prisoner of the US than Russia ever was except in the 1990s for a while.

[quote]As far as Nordic countries like Sweden and Finland, which recently became extremely hostile and hating of Russia, it would be interested to see what happens when the Neonazi gangs from Ukrainians will start fighting against the gangs from the other "refugees" groups.[quote]

Hate is destructive, but the US MIC earns money from it so it is encouraged.

Putin actually gave Ukraine a fair deal. For this war to continue both sides might have to start recruiting in the third world. Then there will be epic war porn

I thought they were rather stupid to reject it so quickly out of hand. Even if their new F-16s don't get shot down on their first flights they are not going to turn the tide of war. Ukraine needs bodies and they are getting mercenaries... but pretty soon their corrupt nature will lead to word on the street being that you will get robbed and you will die if you fight for Ukraine no matter how much they promise it doesn't matter if you are dead and you never see the money and nor does your family...

They can't escalate themselves out of this and they wont wear down Russia either, they are going to run out of men soon and what they send in place will be the workers that keep Ukraine operating and then the women that were being used to replace them.

Lots of heavy or dirty physical jobs women can't or wont do, and society simply can't operate without some of these jobs being done.

Three days later, firefighters in the Kyiv region managed to extinguish a powerful fire at an industrial facility that arose after a Russian strike.

After three days I would say they didn't put the fire out... they poured water on it and it ran out of fuel.

Not really. You can have all those wonderful game changers but you still need to occupy something with someone.

And someone needs to charge and launch and recover the reusable drones.

The SMO was initially conceived as a rapid operation to intimidate the Ukrainian leadership to agree to a specific set of goals set by the Russian leadership

I don't think that is true... it was known from the outset that this conflict was supposed to damage the Russian economy and overthrow and undermine Putin, so making it a SMO or limited intervention was intended to minimise the effect on the Russian economy... which is why three years into the conflict the Russian economy has a growth rate of almost 5% while western economies are ten times less at 0.5% growth if that.

I have heard western officials talk about Russia wanting a win in three days but I have never heard any Russian officials say anything of the kind.

In Kosovo Allbright claimed it would be over in a week... it is western politicians and military so caught up in how powerful HATO is and how weak everyone else is that make such ridiculous claims.

War is war... only a fool will tell you how long it will take.

Using the basic code of western propaganda he is essentially saying that the west needs to be broken up to free the people from oppression from Brussels and Washington...

I don't think the EU is a bad idea, but I think the way it works is not in the interests of all its members, or even some of its members.

The UK made a horrible mistake of leaving... they should have stayed and demanded reform, but it seems it will only get fixed when enough countries leave.

BTW this is interesting:

EU was a fine idea until it got grasped by the Hegemon. So it was untimely set up.

In short: The MoD and Putin 2.0 have started optimizing and coordinating bottom-to-top UAV cooperation between the army and industry.

Belousov and Dyumin discussed issues of supplying UAVs to Russian troops

https://radiosputnik.ru/20240614/bpla-1952805473.html

MOSCOW, June 14/ Radio Sputnik. Russian Defense Minister Andrei Belousov and Russian Presidential Aide Alexey Dyumin held a joint meeting on the supply of unmanned aerial vehicles to the troops, the press service of the Russian defense department reported.
"
“A joint conference call was held at the National Defense Management Center of the Russian Federation between Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation Alexei Dyumin and Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Andrei Belousov on issues of interaction with the constituent entities of the country regarding the supply of unmanned aerial vehicles and training in their use,” says the Telegram channel of the Ministry of Defense.

During the meeting, Belousov emphasized the need to streamline and coordinate the deliveries of certain equipment to the front by the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, especially electronic warfare and electronic reconnaissance equipment, in order to avoid excessive variability of products and increase the efficiency of their use at the front.
"
“Belousov noted that from the very beginning of the SMO, the constituent entities of the Russian Federation have been providing great assistance to the troops in the supply of equipment and equipment. We are talking about the purchase and supply of drones, trench electronic warfare equipment, wheeled vehicles, elements of armor protection and other equipment directly to the units,” – the publication says.
In turn, Dyumin pointed out the need to increase the efficiency of interaction between subjects and regional businesses with the Ministry of Defense in the development and production of drones, electronic warfare equipment and other high-tech devices.

Arrow wrote:Italian Prime Minister Meloni said that if Russia does not accept the conditions for Ukraine, it will be “forced to surrender.”

Lady with Melons, did she tell how she want to force?

Lady with Melons

Most probably an outright f*cking mastoplexy, since Greaseballs love disproportionate tits.

did she tell how she want to force?

She´ll take off her clothes one by one until Russia surrenders. 

The US has sounded the alarm due to a change in Xi Jinping's position on Russia, 06.16.2024.

NYT: Washington fears increased support for Russia from China.

MOSCOW, June 16 – RIA Novosti. The White House is concerned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping will more actively support Russia, writes The New York Times .

“ There is a growing belief among members of the administration of US President Joe Biden that Xi Jinping’s views on his country’s role in the military conflict between Russia and Ukraine have changed and in the future Beijing will support Moscow more strongly,” the publication says.

The article notes that just a few months ago, most American officials considered this point of view an exaggeration, and Biden publicly expressed doubts that Russia and China would be able to “overcome mutual suspicions” and begin to cooperate.

This week, G7 countries in the final statement of the G7 summit in Italy said they were concerned about China's support for Russia and called on Beijing to put pressure on Moscow.

As Xinhua reported, Chinese leader Xi Jinping, at a meeting with Putin in May, said that China supports holding an international peace conference to resolve the situation in Ukraine at an appropriate time, if it is recognized by Moscow and Kiev and subject to their equal participation.

https://ria.ru/20240616/rossiya-1953206882.html