GarryB wrote:HATO drones operating in international airspace being shot down would be something the US would want as an excuse to officially get involved... they could send HATO "peace keepers to Kiev" or Odessa or elsewhere...
If that's what they want to do then they will do it and find an excuse for it as neccessary.
And that sort of thing is what Russia should take notes from. Do, instead of talk.
Don't let them be the ones who decide the time and the location and the level of escalation. Russia has escalation dominance, it's its own turf. Let them be the ones who sweat instead.
HATO platforms operating in international airspace would be difficult to justify with regards to shooting them down.
At a time when American missiles operated by Americans are crashing down on Russia I dare say you have all the justification you need.
As for justifying it before the West - why bother? Russian drones are not flying in international airspace surveying the US, so there can't be a parity response.
It is funny that people complain and say Putin is doing nothing when events are actually happening... he has said that Russia can respond in kind but such actions are not instant and need to be planned and coordinated so the right people suffer and as few other people suffer as possible that are not involved.
Essentially these two attacks have given the green light to Putin to do things he warned them he was going to do.
When the damage from this becomes apparent in the west of course the west will openly blame Putin for all of it but in private channels they will likely beg to go back to the way things were and they will promise to stop escalating... or maybe they wont and then Putin can continue to respond.
It is funny... it is very much like the peace deal, I am glad they are not accepting his terms because it means their deal gets worse and worse.
I hope Putin and the enemies of the west get some good shots in before the west talks things down in private...
You're assuming the West is reasonable and will be willing to cut a deal if not now then somewhere down the line
The situation needs to end first and then investigation and analysis, and then planning a response and executing it so that the right people suffer.
Why would the situation end if the West sees that Putin is all bark and no bite?
This is the CIA switching from using nazis as cannon fodder to stupid sects of Islam to do their dirty work.
Perhaps there needs to be some racial disharmony in the US, or perhaps some problems in Europe maybe.
How about some pro Assad Syrian refugees could hatch a plot to flood the channel tunnel or the London underground... there are so many groups the west has pissed off and so many juicy targets... the Olympics in Paris are coming up and both France and the Olympic committee have given Russia the middle finger... how about something happening there...
Russia is spoiled for choice and the thing is that Putin warned them about playing this game... it is a game Putin normally chooses not to play, but so is invasion and he played that when the west ignored warnings too.
It should have been playing that game since 2022.
And really leaving people in the West alone and simply supporting anti-establishment political forces there and the Palestinian protests achieves more problems for the establishment and thus for Russia, than encouraging some sectarian whatever.
This isn't about revenge, it's about results
But with regard to results, none of this will result in the Western elites currently threatening Russia being deposed from power, at least not immediately. And it's to these Western elites that the correct messages must be sent. And by sent I mean branded on their foreheads so that they don't forget.
Russia is a country not a person... the west has been giving it its best shot especially the last 10 years to hurt Russia and has only made Russia not only stronger and more independent, but also realise what a bunch of
the west actually is and that the anti colonial party called BRICS is where Russias and the rest of the worlds future really lies.
Yes Russia has played its cards brilliantly. Now the West is clambering onto the table in a rage like that guy from Lock Stock & Two Smoking barrels who lost at poker during the game near the start of the film and was promptly thrown out by the bouncers. So what's Russia going to do?
Putin has been very consistent and never reacts before all the facts are in and they have a good idea of who did what and why and when and where.
The response has to hurt the right people and hit the right pockets and still be sensible.
I'm not saying Putin needs to leave. That's what the West is saying
But it is true that Putin has become too predictable. NATO has developed a mathematical model for him and can predict his responses to stimuli.
Putin needs to mix things up a bit.
Russia needs to openly do what the west does for a short period to show the west what can happen if two plays the same game, but if Russia just keeps playing all the wests games then why choose Russia over the US or EU because they would all be the same.
Russia doesn't need to play the West's games, it needs to show the bully his place.
This 'if you do the same back to them as they do to you then you're the same' line is sophistry.
No, you fight evil as you must fight it.
And be nice with everybody else. That'll already be an improvement compared to the West.
The west has been using its interpretation of Putin to defeat him since the mid 2000s and their ignorance and clumsiness has led to his and Russias rise in power.
Do you expect them to suddenly become smart over night?
It is going to take a few elections and a lot of fools to lose their jobs before the west wakes up and smells the roses.
But the point is that Putin is steering the ship to destroy Kiev as his first priority... bullshit terrorism isn't going to stop that car crash and he needs to make sure Ukraine is done.
Well that's true, the West has been outsmarted by Putin and his team so far
But they've decided to mix things up. They're being confrontational like never before. And Putin has not adapted to that as yet. In fact the Russian elite seems to be in denial. These people want to kill you. They are not interested in 'peace negotiations'. Cutting a deal when the stakes are so high would amount to them losing their empire as the only leg that it has left to stand on is rest of the world's fear. Take away that fear and they're done. They know that, hence why they won't go for a deal. The only solution is to make them in turn fear losing something else even more than their own empire.
Putin said the opposite of turning the cheek... he talked about a response in kind... which is not something you can organise quickly if you care about who suffers and who does not... and he clearly does.
That's just the problem. Putin said. Instead of Putin did.
He is not a psycho that will kill random innocent people to upset the west because he knows the west don't give a **** about most people anyway.
Nor do you have to be. You need to retaliate against the same NATO military infrastructure working in support of strikes against your soldiers and your civilians.
This woman is sensible enough to understand the west needs escalations because otherwise they lose.
But is she smart enough to realize that if they escalate and Russia does nothing, then they can still win?
Putin is also sensible, but that is not to say he wont inflict pain on the enemy for these escalations and also continue the plan to make things unbearable for the Ukraine to get a collapse to be sooner rather than later.
Putin needs to get his Stalin act going. And post-WW2 Stalin at that.
**** the crazed cowboy crap that the US is trying for.