Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

JohninMK wrote:The man on the left looks as if he is not having a good time, with the reality that his time may be coming to an end starting to feel very sobering.

The best he can hope for is to get a job at Hoover, Wilson, or some other god awful think tank or retire to one of his villas on the Med. Next best he can hope for is the Mikheil Saakashvili route where he gets arrested for abuse of power and then some other US puppet names him as a governor of some province before he is returned to serve prison time. My guess is that he goes the way of Ceausescu and is brutally murdered. There won't be a helicopter to fly him to Russia and NATO won't want him. That's if his people get him. It could be that NATO may find him more valuable dead and off him in a way that they can pin on Moscow to keep the war going.

Once bandits approach his farm , they don't hear him , firing practice shots ! They have no idea if his gun works ! Or he has good aim , or has a reputation for being ruthless ! Or if he has the nerve to shoot a gun !

The bandits in this story are idiots and think this farmer is weak because he is a good christian that doesn't go out for revenge and punish those that wrong him 100 to one like the US does or the nazis do.

They are also cowards and the changes to Russian law make it pretty clear that it is now Russian that allows Putin to use nuclear weapons as he pleases when dealing with countries with nukes or their proxies. They might still claim Putin wont do anything. They also said this war wouldn't happen either because Putin is not going to invade anyone...

Does the Russian leadership still think the West will fall for this bluff? The West knows perfectly well that Russia will not use nuclear weapons unless its very existence is threatened.

The west knows perfectly well that US nukes are for US use and the US wouldn't use their nukes to defend Afghanistan against the Taliban or ISIS, and they are not going to use them to save Kiev because Kiev is not even in HATO... they probably wouldn't use their nukes to defend French or German or Polish or Latvian or Estonian or Lithuanian troops in the Ukraine either.

Finland has already said it will not send troops or material or money to Kiev because it has its own piece of the front line it needs to defend.

Do you honestly think the UK or France or the US are going to nuke a target in Russia if Russia nukes targets in Sweden or Finland they claim missile or drone strikes have been launched from?

Because the act of launching those nukes makes those countries fair game for a response nuclear attack that ABM systems wont stop.

Of course the Russians are not actually threatening the use of nukes if long range targets are hit with Western programming, the threat is that modern Russian conventional munitions are devastating enough with mention being made in the West of the Avangard.

The west continues to escalate, so perhaps conventionally armed strikes against targets in the west might not be enough... striking military targets with nuclear weapons could be their solution to get the US to pull its fucking head out of its arse and grow the **** up.

There is zero chance of any peace agreements... the leaders of all western countries have called Putin Hitler and the devil a dozen times... how can they negotiate a peace treaty is such a case?

A nuclear warhead detonation in HATO territory might be the wakeup call the west needs to realise that Russia actually takes this seriously... and what has Russia to lose... western claims that a million Russian soldiers are already dead and they are running out of everything... isn't the use of nuclear weapons more than logical in such situation?

No, the really significant part of Putin's announcement is the part that few have commented on. It is the threat that if NATO attacks with a mass aircraft/drone attack, which is probably their main advantage, certainly initially, then for the first time Russia has said that they will respond with nukes. This gives them the ability to immediately wipe out airfields across Europe and the US with tactical nukes giving them a far better chance of success than with conventional munitions.

Actually I would rate the fact that he said nukes are on the table against countries that do not have nuclear weapons.... like Ukraine and Finland and Sweden and Georgia and Poland and all the Baltic states, if those countries have a military alliance with countries that do have nuclear weapons and is supporting them.

The retaliation in nukes can be against the proxy country or the nuclear armed country they are being used as cannon fodder for.

This means they can nuke any target they chose from the front line all the way up the logistics and training chain including that nuclear powers military assets in the war zone (ie US embassy), and HATO training and logistics centres and production centres in Europe and the US of A.

For which I would repost the image Arrow posted recently...

Western media acknowledged the manpower shortage and deterioration of morale amongst Kiev forces.

In such situation the arguments about "red line" are all irrelevant.

Antonia has her panties in a bunch because Putin hammered his point home at the exact right time. From all I can gather the United States was all but ready to sign off on all sorts of deep strikes on Russian territory that would have killed thousands in Volgograd, Moscow, Petersburg, Kazan etc. Putin said, well bitch if you do that you're going to die. So Antonia can cry her heart out but have you noticed that we haven't seen any Ukrainian drone strikes on anything in Russia for over a week? Antonia has been forced to realize that her house is on the target list for a nuke if NATO signs off on these deep strikes.

flamming_python wrote:
Mikhail Saakashvilli ended up in a jail cell and that was just over the loss of lives in a 3-day war

Zelensky cannot even dream of such a fate much less about any villas.
Nevermind the hatred silently building up against him in the Ukraine itself, his own masters don't even want to meet him anymore, he has become toxic to them. This 'heroic leader' that everyone and their mother was lionizing just 2 years ago.
What do you think people will say about him in another 2 years?

Like I said, the best he can hope for is exile or prison but my guess is he is going to have a very violent and painful death.  The question is, will it be his oligarchs or NATO and or some coalition of western intel agencies.

The West will launch dozens of drones and cruise missiles into Russian territory through Ukrainian hands, and Putin will do nothing. Putin's bluffs are worthless.

Like Zelensky and the west you are just too stupid to talk as much as you do.

I am sorry, but it is really annoying.

This is a proxy war and the west has been fighting Russia via a proxy force, which Russia is destroying.

Putin has done nothing to the west... is bullshit to start with... if Putin did nothing there would not be the current war happening and hundreds of billions of western dollars would not be getting thrown at the US MIC.

Before this law change the west could say... it is not us... it is Kiev that is finding targets deep inside Russia and launching large numbers of weapons and drones at these targets and occasionally getting a hit or two.

Russia has little proof otherwise, so by the laws of the time could not act against anyone but Kiev... WHICH THEY DID. Not immediately, but soon afterwards suitable targets were selected and hit and destroyed to punish Kiev. The west didn't feel it and didn't care some of the time, but other times HATO officers were killed and they got hit bad and lots of strange crashes and accidents started happening in the west leading to funerals of lots of HATO current and former members.

Saying Putin will do nothing... you are Zelensky... give me money and long range weapons, Putin is bluffing and he has never done anything regarding his red lines... really? So this conflict isn't happening?

If this was true why not give Kiev instant HATO membership... they are not quite as corrupt as the US, but they are really making an effort to steal and graft and lie and cheat.

The fact of the matter is that Putin has just closed their proxy war loophole and if they give permission to Kiev to use long range missiles of their production and they use them then Putin has all he needs to justify pretty much any measure he pleases because it is there in black and white... before this new law Russia could not nuke the Ukraine because they are not a nuclear power... the new laws clearly state that proxy countries supported by nuclear powers can be nuked, as can those nuclear powers that fund and support them.

Now there is not a lot of things in the Ukraine worth a nuke... they can destroy anything they please already, but staging areas in HATO countries and places where weapons and ammo and equipment are being stored and sent to Kiev, as well as HATO forces being built up on borders could be claimed to be legitimate targets too.

Maybe a small tactical nuke on the US embassy to ensure everyone dies and everything is destroyed... the CIA have dozens of labs in the country that probably need to be destroyed like that too.

There are areas that Russia has likely decided to take... the new longer ranged weapons means the buffer zones are going to be deep and will likely cut Kiev off from the Black Sea, but there are regions of the Ukraine that Russia is likely not very interested in. Those claiming it will become a HATO front line are ignoring the terms of the peace agreement that is eventually reached which will stipulate any HATO forces in the new Ukraine will trigger an attack.

You see a large portion of the old Ukraine was basically Russia anyway, but west of Kiev we are talking about more Polish more European bits that probably wont appeal to Russia anyway... they wont be trying to save them, it will be more a case of wanting to wall them off from Russia to protect Russia from them so carpet bombing them or even nuking them would be a suitable option to deal with them at minimal losses.

The people claiming Putin will do nothing all the time ignore what he does and is doing.

Just because he is in charge of the Russian Federation does not mean he can simply act like the US and the west and do as he pleases like a rogue state.

He follows the rules.... but notice he is in power still... he is not stupid... he follows the rules, but will change the rules when it makes sense to do so... which is what he is doing now with the rules on the use of nuclear weapons.

He might never use any nuclear weapons, but now if he feels he needs to he can and it wouldn't be the first time he changed the rules and used them to his and Russias advantage...

The West knows perfectly well that Putin will not dare to escalate. That's obvious.

If they were that confident then why isn't Kiev in HATO?

If they were that confident why hasn't Biden declared that Kiev can use HATO weapons any way it pleases?

Why are there no French troops entering Ukraine territory and protecting Odessa to allow Blackrock to continue to make money from sales of grain that continues to be harvested?

And of course you ask why Russia hasn't destroyed those farmlands, or at least the farm machinery needed to grow and harvest the crops.... well if Russia did that then the west would claim Blackrock should get compensation and have the frozen Russian assets handed over to them in compensation...

Besides, Putin has repeated his nonsense many times since the beginning of the war, what will he do if the West starts delivering weapons.

Perhaps you have been watching too much BBC and CNN. Putins warnings to the west about supplying weapons and ammo to Kiev have all about prolonging the war.... not that he will nuke them.

Do Russian supporters sometimes wish that Russia was more like Israel

Israel only exists because of the US and to a much lessor extent Germany.

Wishing Russia was like Israel is like wishing Russia was a bit more like America or the UK or the other European colonial powers.

Russia being a colonial bully that doesn't care about anything except the richest four or five Russian families is not the goal and not why I respect Russia and Putin.

Anyone can be a selfish ****... it is easy... and not something anyone should wish for.

It would make supporting Russia far easier.

If you think Russia is a genocidal religious cult then I don't think they even want your support.

People in general like to root for winners, not losers.

And yet every soccer world cup only one team wins and most of the time the supporters of the teams that lose don't change their allegiance to the winning team...

When it comes to countries there is no countries that win all the time. Israel looks like most countries at war and would not be my first choice for holiday destination this year or next. You can claim they are winning but what they are achieving seems counter to their future goals... but who am I to tell them what to do?

Supporting a loser is psychologically demanding, because it predisposes a person to constant negative feelings such as anger, despair and hopelessness.

Very few sides never win, and expecting your side to take on the entire western world and piss all over them is being a bit demanding, especially after losing much of its former territory and all of its eastern european former allies... in 25 years it is now resistant to the most powerful western sanctions, and is even fighting TWO proxy wars against the US and one seems to be a bit of a stalemate, but the other conflict they are actually winning.

And if they were not winning then there would be no reason for the Global South to help them out by not joining the sanctions and getting good favour from the US... a psychopath you always want to keep on side if you can.

But the problem is that these satanic monsters are winning and they have no credible counter force anywhere.

Except the west is not winning... they are burdening their economies with pointless wars their proxy forces are losing, yet they continue to throw good money after old money. their economies are in terrible shape and it is the smoke and mirrors BS that is hiding the fact that Europe is dying... it is paying much more for energy that is already processed so they can't extract chemicals from it for their chemical industry. All their industry is likely to move to China or Mexico or India or the US. Their weapons industries are in tatters and are struggling to restock the stores let alone build the next generation stuff they need because the current generation stuff is rubbish. To high maintenance, too heavy, too expensive, and in terms of performance no better in practical terms than previous generation systems with an upgrade.

Russia and China are led by leaders that are not capable of standing up against the West. They are risk-averse, favor non-retaliation against aggression and do not support their allies against western aggression in a meaningful way.

You are not understanding the point. For Putin and Xi to stand up to the west in the way you want to is a military confrontation that is going to destroy enormous portions of both sides and their is no practical victory there because everyones economy is going to be in the toilet when major cities are glowing and a large portion of the population is dead on both sides.

What Putin and Xi are doing is frustrating the west and allow the west to attack mostly Russia so far but that might shift to attacking China if Trump gets elected... but Russia is not just taking those attacks, it is becoming independent and stronger as the west separates itself from Russia... and this path means Russia can use BRICS to create organisations and entities that are truly international and not under US or EU control.

WADA and the IAEA and ICC and PACE and all the other western controlled mechanisms of control over all countries are being revealed for what they are.

The banning of Russian oil and gas has led to Russia putting together its own shipping options and together with that its own insurance for shipping its own goods... now the west has no idea what Russia is exporting and where... it can only guess.

Now Russia is wondering why it lets western companies set the international prices for energy and metals and food and textiles and other goods. Why are all the economic measures of a countries economic viability all in the US and why does everyone ignore that they lie when it comes to US ratings.

Looks to me that in a few decades the US and her European bitches have destroyed the western world order we have been living under since WWII.

No wonder the third world remains the third world... they never had a chance.

BRICS is their chance.

Iran has now proved that it is totally defenseless against Israel. Israel could probably militarily decapitate Iran in a few weeks if they would decide.

And yet they haven't.

I find it amusing when a terrorist attack happens all the 5th columnists pop up and say putin is weak... you never have the patience to see what they will actually do... it just registers in your head that Israel or Kiev or the US has done something and Putin hasn't immediately responded... by invading Bangledesh or something.

Iran is supposed to be a Russian/Chinese ally while Israel definitely is a western ally. While the West has armed Israel up to its teeth, Iran has been left with nothing to fight against Israel. See the difference?

Despite all the sanctions Iran can fend for itself... Israel, on the other hand is a beggars state that relies on regular handouts from the US for survival.

Some ten years ago Russia badly betrayed Iran in this field. Iran had already paid for a Russian air defense system (probably S400) but Russia failed to deliver it to Iran.

They were S-300s and that was international law... actual UNSC sanctions, which unlike unilateral western sanctions should be obeyed by countries around the world.

This is the same idiot that offered Russian railways for the usage of NATO cargo in Afghan war, free of charge of course.

Russia was helping the west rebuild Afghanistan, but as usual it turned out the west just wanted to rape Afghanistan of its mineral wealth because it has never been commercially mined before.

How did that end up for the west BTW... 20 years and trillions of dollars and running away with the tail between the legs...

And the rest of the world does not really matter. India and Brazil will never be anything more than developing countries.

Yes, the colonial european rises up again... have you actually thought that maybe it is the west and Europe that doesn't matter?

It is sick and evil and should be sidelined.

North Korea is too tiny to make any difference (except for their nukes, the sole reason the West has left them alone by the way).

Which is why Russia should be basing nukes in Iran and Saudi Arabia,

The West (and Israel) do shock and awe. Bombing their enemies to stone age.

Ruthless murdering bastards, there is nothing impressive about killing women and children.

Killing their enemies leadership in a few days (or in a few hours like Israel just did). And they do this to inflict maximum casualties to enemy while preserving their own troops.

And when US troops do go into combat we will see what years of neglect and COIN operational training has done to their operational readiness.

Why couldn't Russia do the same in Ukraine?

Because Russia is fighting a war it did not want to fight and was given no alternatives.

They are fighting to rescue Ukrainians from the west, which would make no sense if they went in killing everyone like the Americans and the British and French do.

Why did the idiot in the Kremlin try this "humane" and "brotherhood" style of warfare that was doomed to fail from the beginning?

Failure?

Russia was perfectly capable of militarily decapitating Ukraine's political and military leadership in the first days of the war.

And their HATO allies could care less who was following their instructions. Kiev might have ended up with someone competent running the war for them...

It would have caused massive civilian casualties too, but it would have also broken Ukraine's back.

Are you saying Zelensky is the backbone of Kievs forces and they would lose without him?

What are they doing now?

And it would have saved tens if not hundreds of thousands of Russian military personnel's lives.

I could say Nuking Kiev in 2014 would have saved lives, but know one can say.

What they should have done was sent a sniper team to Kosovo when Hillary Clinton was there and kill the wicked witch herself... Bill probably would have given you all the security information to get a good kill...

Now Russia is stuck with this slower than snails pace war in Donbass while the West is happily arming Ukraine to kill as many Russians as possible.

Russia continues to destroy Kievs forces and many western governments are anything but happy.

Meanwhile in the real conflict Russia is diversifying its trade and economic relations out to the rest of the world and bypassing western intermediaries, leading to mutually beneficial trade relationships, and improved economic and political stability.

Perhaps you need to stop listening to western news sources, they are corrupting your mind.