Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+55
Tolstoy
Serberus
littlerabbit
VARGR198
RTN
Hannibal Barca
Ispan
pavi
Arsenic
par far
bandit6
d_taddei2
Odin of Ossetia
Big_Gazza
Sujoy
Krepost
marcellogo
LMFS
Rodion_Romanovic
Arkanghelsk
mr_hd
billybatts91
Eugenio Argentina
Scorpius
Belisarius
Kiko
ArgentinaGuard
Broski
famschopman
lancelot
kvs
sepheronx
mnztr
Mir
Karl Haushofer
SeigSoloyvov
caveat emptor
owais.usmani
franco
PapaDragon
nomadski
flamming_python
PhSt
Isos
Firebird
lyle6
Arrow
GarryB
Backman
Regular
Hole
The-thing-next-door
higurashihougi
GunshipDemocracy
ALAMO
59 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15650
    Points : 15791
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  JohninMK Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:20 am

    Kyiv will receive additional NASAMS anti-aircraft missiles, RIM-7 and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, ammunition for HIMARS artillery rocket systems, 155-mm and 105-mm artillery shells, Javelin and AT-4 anti-tank systems, HMMWV combat vehicles, small arms, ammunition, grenades, etc
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 GaDJUe2WAAAfPd8?format=jpg&name=small

    GarryB, PapaDragon and lancelot like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40548
    Points : 41050
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:16 am

    And what shocks me most is the fact, that there is a rather simple solution to this.
    First, end the war.
    Second, reestablish business as usual with Russkie.

    The first would be easy... if they closed their borders and airspace to Ukraine this conflict would not last a lot longer, but that second one might not be as easy as you suggest... the EU inflicted pain on Russia and has killed a lot of their young men and civilians... I really don't think the end of this conflict is going to flick some switch and it will be business as usual again. Russia produces its own food, and it has started getting the other things it wants or needs from other places, and has started the process of shifting its energy deliveries to Asia and down through the Caspian Sea to Iran.

    There have been countries that have been mature and didn't enter this western sanction fest... Georgia has not been the enemy it could have been and Turkey has remained neutral. Hungary is talking sense even if it is part of Europe and recently Slovakia and Austria have been talking sensibly too, but the rest were keen to send weapons and see the Russians humiliated. Lavrov even mentioned... it might take a generation before business as usual is even possible.

    The only places they still cooperate is in CERN and ISS and the former has ended for Russian workers on December 1st and the ISS is not going to survive this decade...

    Third, rearm while spending the money on the EU based MIC, not US one.

    They will start with EU projects for new fighters and new tanks and new ships and eventually each country able to make their own will make their own and they will all use slightly different variations of the same ammo that is not compatible... and different engines and different engine parts... they will all be metric but different.

    And they will all cost way more than was promised...

    Maybe their better solution to speed up part two would be to disband HATO and buy Russian military equipment which has been proven to be effective in real combat... Twisted Evil

    Europe will already be buying hundreds of F 35s. Unless something unforeseen happens and the US collapses faster.

    Buying F-35s in large numbers is a good recipe to ensure a collapse faster...

    populated by $ionists isn't exactly better.

    By definition, they wont be Zionists because it is not Israel... it would be more like a Jewish enclave... they have such things in Russia already.

    the hopium is strong in this one and that is from a year ago makes the hopium tears even more delicious

    What is worse is that it wasn't even accurate then when it was posted...

    Interesting that he favours bullies that pretend to be victims though... nazis in kiev and nazis in Israel.

    What did they expect from the western MIC?

    They scoured the planet looking for any ammo in useful calibres so of course they paid top dollar for the worst shit everyone wanted to get rid of.

    Even the Eastern European countries probably had out of date ammo that they likely shipped to kiev first before giving up the good stuff... the recent stuff.

    They talk about North Korea and Iran and India and Serbia and China and Cuba and Venezuela sending ammo and weapons to the Russians for this conflict... and of course they could have, but most seem to be denying that, but the real bitter pill is that western countries, or more accurately front companies using CIA money probably offered them all sorts of money for that ammo and while many of those countries could do with money, they probably said no just to piss America and the EU off.

    If I was North Korea, I would be giving them some of my newer missiles and most modern artillery rounds just to test them in a real conflict... without charge.

    Flatulence, created by eating to much beans.

    Very important there is to be no smoking...

    Except after a TOS attack obviously.

    It is said that this is the remains of Challenger in Kursk

    Was it buried to hide and protect it, or did it just sink... I would say the latter due to the lack of hiding the turret and gun which are distinctive features you would hide if you are burying something to hide it.

    ...and JohninMK gives the explanation.... Smile

    Regarding that post of that tank battle, it is going to be rather one sided because a couple of weeks training is not long enough to learn how to use a tank effectively... they will have the same problem with everything from artillery to air defence...

    HATO are keen for Kiev to keep fighting but really don't seem interested in sending actual troops or manned platforms to support like some of those F-35s or Rafales or even Leclercs...

    RIM-7 and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles,

    RIM-7s are Sea Sparrows based on the old SARH air to air missile that predates the AMRAAM.

    Not a terrible missile but not generally land based either... seems the US Navy wants to get rid of old stocks too...

    kvs, Hole and lancelot like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2594
    Points : 2588
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:24 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Not yet.
    And what shocks me most is the fact, that there is a rather simple solution to this.
    First, end the war.
    Second, reestablish business as usual with Russkie.
    Third, rearm while spending the money on the EU based MIC, not US one.
    But nobody will allow that to happen because the goal of this drill was the opposite Twisted Evil
    Unfortunately the Russians will not forget nor forgive the Euros for forcing them to kill their own blood, by their own hands even. The retribution might not come now, or tomorrow, but it will come. The death toll will be horrendous.

    For Europe to survive it has to be defanged. Permanently.

    Can't be a threat if you're living hand to mouth.

    GarryB, xeno and kvs like this post

    Odin of Ossetia dislikes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 7515
    Points : 7605
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:25 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    Ouch - the perenoha became a stinking fucking Zrada hahahaah


    It was enough to watch the faces of the audience when he pushed these phantasmagories.
    This guy clearly lives in an alternate universe full of white powder.
    And what is the most humorous part is the fact the more idiocies he speaks, the more Europe distances.
    For me who is watching  that for years, it looks like the turning point has been achieved a while ago, and only gaining momentum.

    lyle6 wrote:
    Unfortunately the Russians will not forget nor forgive the Euros for forcing them to kill their own blood, by their own hands even. The retribution might not come now, or tomorrow, but it will come. The death toll will be horrendous.
    For Europe to survive it has to be defanged. Permanently.
    Can't be a threat if you're living hand to mouth.

    Well, yes and no.
    Keep in mind that there is no single European opinion to the matter.
    It varies even in countries - just t ake a look at Croatia. While its president keeps sane mind and was calling the warmongers to send their own children there because he as a Croatian president wouldn't allow the Croats to die for Ukropia.
    And was called a Russian agent by the Croatian PM Laughing
    Hungarian position is clear.
    Slovak position is clear.
    Pretty soon, Czechs will follow the Slovakian path - Czech society is quite pragmatic, it is only part of its political establishment that pushes an insane Russophobic agenda. Dismantling Koniev's monument in Prague, ended up in riots.
    Bulgar society is Russia-positive - it would be very hard not to be if Russkie gave them freedom from Ottoman oppression that was drawing them in blood.
    It is again a part of a corrupted political class that pushes the agenda the society doesn't share.
    A giant part of German society has not a gram of Russophobia, the same applies to the Austrians.
    Remember that there is a rather big German diaspora in Russia and vice versa.
    Russkie are way to pragmatic to dump those sentiments down the toilet - they will cooperate with the friendly EU member countries.
    They are doing that even now - there was a scandal this week, as German SWR wrote that till the end of 2023, German machine industry has carried more than THREE HUNDRED deliveries of equipment to Russian MIC...
    With Turkey being a middleman Laughing
    HAd they ceased to do it in 2024 is a rhetorical question I suppose Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Hole likes this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 7053
    Points : 7079
    Join date : 2010-08-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  franco Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:55 am

    Russian MoD reporting 2410 Ukrainian casualties in the past 24 hours including in the Kursk;

    During the day, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to more than 250 people, 15 armored vehicles were destroyed, including five tanks, two infantry fighting vehicles, of which one was a Swedish-made CV-90 BMP, eight armored combat vehicles, as well as four guns, of which two M777 howitzers made in the USA and one L119 howitzer made in Britain, a launcher installation of multiple rocket launchers, four mortars and four vehicles. Six servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered.

    kvs, PapaDragon, LMFS, Hole and Mir like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13472
    Points : 13512
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:30 am

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:About 100 masked men broke into the church of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/32705) in Cherkassy during the liturgy at night, seized the cathedral, and stole its treasury, the Union of Orthodox Journalists reported.

    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/35148


    So what?

    They tried to play neutral with Nazis to save their status, this is just karma

    Broski likes this post

    Firebird dislikes this post

    ucmvulcan
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 1368
    Points : 1366
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ucmvulcan Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:44 am

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:About 100 masked men broke into the church of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/32705) in Cherkassy during the liturgy at night, seized the cathedral, and stole its treasury, the Union of Orthodox Journalists reported.

    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/35148

    I would absolutely hate to be them. If God wasn't on Russia's side before this, He most certainly is now.

    par far, GunshipDemocracy and LMFS like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15650
    Points : 15791
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  JohninMK Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:47 am

    The Ukrainians can only dream of something like this heading their way Laughing I gave up counting Smile

    Mind you, they are supposed to be getting 49 or so clapped out Aussie M1a

    Firebird, d_taddei2, kvs, PapaDragon, LMFS, Hole, lancelot and Mir like this post

    Odin of Ossetia
    Odin of Ossetia


    Posts : 947
    Points : 1034
    Join date : 2015-07-03

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Odin of Ossetia Thu Oct 17, 2024 2:29 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    Not yet.
    And what shocks me most is the fact, that there is a rather simple solution to this.
    First, end the war.
    Second, reestablish business as usual with Russkie.
    Third, rearm while spending the money on the EU based MIC, not US one.
    But nobody will allow that to happen because the goal of this drill was the opposite Twisted Evil
    Unfortunately the Russians will not forget nor forgive the Euros for forcing them to kill their own blood, by their own hands even. The retribution might not come now, or tomorrow, but it will come. The death toll will be horrendous.

    For Europe to survive it has to be defanged. Permanently.

    Can't be a threat if you're living hand to mouth.




    They are "Slavs" but their original founders came on Varangian boats?

    If they were Slavs they would have arrived on land, not on boats.

    Zaporozhian Cossacks showed similar behavior patterns to Varangians.


    https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g294474-d3187570-Reviews-Kyiv_Founders_Monument-Kyiv.html




    Genuine Slavic nationality would be ethnic Poles.

    It was the ethnic Poles who blocked German expansion to the East for around 700 years.

    Meanwhile Ukraine in the past sided with Sweden, now is siding with Germany.

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 3896
    Points : 3972
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Kiko Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:32 pm

    Nuclear Blackmail: Zelensky Decided to Scare the World with Weapons of Mass Destruction, by David Narmania for RiaNovosti. 10.17.2024.

    The continuation of yesterday's banquet of Volodymyr Zelensky with a winning plan did not take long to come. At today's speech at the European Council, he repeated the theses that became one of the reasons for the main tragedy in Ukrainian history.

    "In a conversation with Donald Trump, I said: 'This is what we have. What is the solution? Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons - and then this will be our defense. Or we must have some kind of alliance. Apart from NATO , we do not know of an effective alliance today. NATO countries are not at war today. NATO countries are not at war. In NATO countries, all people are alive,'" Zelensky opened up to his European partners.

    And literally immediately Bild published a very interesting article with references to a certain Ukrainian official who threatens to create an atomic bomb for Kiev in a few weeks. It is noteworthy that this unnamed source specializes in arms purchases.

    "We have the materials, we have the knowledge. If we get the order, it will only take a few weeks to get the first bomb," the German publication quotes him as saying.

    Here we need to immediately clarify a few points. There is no particular need to mention that Russia has more nuclear warheads than the Ukrainian Armed Forces use artillery shells per month. There is also no need to mention that there is no safe place in Ukraine that Russia could not reach with non-nuclear, but extremely powerful means. There is no talk at all about Russia not allowing such a scenario to happen. This is obvious to everyone anyway.

    It is better to pay attention to the following. The intellectual impoverishment of Western elites is, of course, increasingly evident, but even they understand that it is primarily in their interests to do everything to prevent Ukraine from acquiring nuclear weapons. Kyiv is bowing and scraping to get long-range missiles and air defense. They are giving it with difficulty. And as for weapons of mass destruction... The West needs Ukraine as a cheap - and they do not hide it - consumable that can be used against Russia. No one is going to make it, if not a nuclear power, then a gang with a nuclear club. The Germans are not allowed to do so, and certainly not the cocaine ruler of a country that the average American cannot find on a map.

    That is why if yesterday's - and today's, for that matter - comedian seriously thinks: "Nuclear weapons? That would be great!" - and something happens to him after that, then it is very likely that American or European specialists have gotten ahead of their Russian colleagues. His role in the global party is to drive Ukrainians to their death, and not to threaten the world with a nuclear apocalypse.

    It is therefore significant that Bankova hastened to refute the Bild article, calling it a hoax and nonsense.

    But why then was such a statement made at all?

    The thing is that Zelensky is well aware that there is very little time left until the fateful elections for the United States - and now Washington is the most pliable in the entire two and a half years. He understands that the Democrats "have no time to hit on the head" even the arrogant kept men. So if not now, then when?

    It is no coincidence that he mentions the Republican candidate: the fact that the actor in a military T-shirt, who has become a pain in the neck for everyone, is talking to Trump with ultimatums, and the latter, according to him, agrees with him, is a good pass for Harris in the current situation. So she has something to justify herself with before the current settlers of the White House.

    It is also significant that literally yesterday, almost immediately after Zelensky's speech, the United States said that there is no talk of Ukraine joining the alliance right now. Against the backdrop of Zelensky's crucifying himself with his "immediately, today, right away", this looked like a slap in the face. It is not surprising that the artist was offended.

    But to assume that only resentment served as the reason for this kind of performance would, of course, be a mistake.

    What is Zelensky's goal then? Joining NATO is not the only point of the "victory plan", there are others. And they are much more down-to-earth in the current realities and discussed for the West. This is why Kyiv is raising the stakes - demanding the impossible in order to get at least what it wants.

    Is it adventurous? Of course. The last time Zelensky spoke about nuclear weapons, the SVO began. What consequences his speech will have now - we will see. And, I think, no one will be surprised if the break in massive missile attacks ends here.

    All this only indicates that things are moving towards disaster for Bankova on the front lines.

    https://ria.ru/20241017/zelenskiy-1978599973.html

    kvs, GunshipDemocracy, Hole and Broski like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 7515
    Points : 7605
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:44 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Mind you, they are supposed to be getting 49 or so clapped out Aussie M1a

    Those are mostly MTLB carriers.
    An equivalent of a truck on tracks, honestly.
    Guns are 2S3.

    flamming_python likes this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 3492
    Points : 3482
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Arrow Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:33 pm

    Zelensky threatens to develop nuclear weapons.
    ucmvulcan
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 1368
    Points : 1366
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ucmvulcan Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:10 pm

    Arrow wrote:Zelensky threatens to develop nuclear weapons.

    The only result of such a promise is that Kiev loses its nuclear reactors. If the little terrorist launches so much as one, everything west of the Dniepr becomes glass

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs and LMFS like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2594
    Points : 2588
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:52 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Well, yes and no.
    Keep in mind that there is no single European opinion to the matter.
    It varies even in countries - just t ake a look at Croatia. While its president keeps sane mind and was calling the warmongers to send their own children there because he as a Croatian president wouldn't allow the Croats to die for Ukropia.
    And was called a Russian agent by the Croatian PM Laughing
    Hungarian position is clear.
    Slovak position is clear.
    Pretty soon, Czechs will follow the Slovakian path - Czech society is quite pragmatic, it is only part of its political establishment that pushes an insane Russophobic agenda. Dismantling Koniev's monument in Prague, ended up in riots.
    Bulgar society is Russia-positive - it would be very hard not to be if Russkie gave them freedom from Ottoman oppression that was drawing them in blood.
    It is again a part of a corrupted political class that pushes the agenda the society doesn't share.
    A giant part of German society has not a gram of Russophobia, the same applies to the Austrians.
    Remember that there is a rather big German diaspora in Russia and vice versa.
    Russkie are way to pragmatic to dump those sentiments down the toilet - they will cooperate with the friendly EU member countries.
    They are doing that even now - there was a scandal this week, as German SWR wrote that till the end of 2023, German machine industry has carried more than THREE HUNDRED deliveries of equipment to Russian MIC...
    With Turkey being a middleman Laughing
    HAd they ceased to do it in 2024 is a rhetorical question I suppose Laughing Laughing Laughing
    If parts of Europe can be made to defect that is fine, highly unlikely though it may be. But again, unless drastic measures are made to actually accomodate Russia`s security unfortunately Europe will have to be removed as a threat. Remember Russia has tried everything - they occupied half of Europe, then turned around and gave them their freedom while economically sustaining the continent at great cost to her citizens - and its still not enough. At some point they will just shrug and say **** it, and do the unthinkable...

    sepheronx, GarryB and kvs like this post

    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 772
    Points : 770
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Broski Fri Oct 18, 2024 12:49 am

    lyle6 wrote:If parts of Europe can be made to defect that is fine, highly unlikely though it may be. But again, unless drastic measures are made to actually accomodate Russia`s security unfortunately Europe will have to be removed as a threat. Remember Russia has tried everything - they occupied half of Europe, then turned around and gave them their freedom while economically sustaining the continent at great cost to her citizens - and its still not enough. At some point they will just shrug and say **** it, and do the unthinkable...
    At some point, Russia needs to allow a new Iron curtain to be raised from Norway to Romania once Novorossiya is returned to its rightful owner. Reroute all trade to the BRICS/Global South and leave Europe to go through another dark age until they learn to behave like civilized human beings. A few thousand Zircons with nuclear warheads will serve as a sufficient deterrent to all-out war between European NATO and Russia.

    sepheronx, GarryB, flamming_python, kvs, lyle6, Kiko and Mir like this post

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 3896
    Points : 3972
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Kiko Fri Oct 18, 2024 3:01 am

    Russia responded in advance to Kyiv's threat to create nuclear weapons, by Kirill Strelnikov for RiaNovosti. 10.18.2024.

    Yesterday, during a speech at the EU summit, the illegitimate President of Ukraine Zelensky stated that the creation of its own nuclear weapons is the only alternative to the country's membership in NATO: "Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, or we must be in some (defending Ukraine) alliance. Apart from NATO, today we do not know of any working alliances." Thus, he strongly hinted (or rather, issued an ultimatum to the allies) that Ukraine may resume its nuclear development if it is refused admission to the alliance.

    Quite by chance (not really) at the same time as this statement, the German publication Bild published a "leak" of a conversation with an anonymous Ukrainian official involved in arms supplies, who stated that Ukraine could create nuclear weapons for use against Russia in just a few weeks: "We have the materials, we have the knowledge. If there is an order, we will need just a few weeks to get the first bomb." At the same time, the justification for restoring the "nuclear status" could be, for example, "Russia's second attempt to go to Kiev."

    It is characteristic that this mysterious Ukrainian official voiced a message that is one hundred percent consistent with Zelensky's message: "Western countries should think less about Russia's red lines and much more about Ukraine's red lines." In other words, accept our "victory plan" (with immediate membership of Ukraine in NATO and the possibility of strikes with Western long-range weapons deep into Russia) - or we will not vouch for ourselves and will act at our own discretion, even if in the end, instead of Europe (and America at the same time ), there will be a nuclear desert with glowing cockroaches.

    For those who have been following the story of Zelensky's "victory plan," this turn of events, although abrupt, is not at all accidental.

    Judging by the intensity of the announcements that preceded Zelensky's visit to Washington , Biden was simply obliged to sign the "victory plan" before he could say "how do you do," although its (the plan's) absolute schizophrenia was clear to everyone - even in the West. As expected, Zelensky was politely but decisively sent away.

    Apparently, having reread the plan once more to be sure, the Western "partners" came to a final consensus: "The man is clearly inadequate. In short, it will be as it is, and it won't be any other way, and then it will be as it will be. That is, we'll give him more money, weapons - as much as we can, but no NATO and no long-range nonsense, go to sleep, Volodimir, your eyes are red and your nose is sniffling."

    This came out in the form of quite unambiguous publications in Western media, where a bold line was drawn under this entire victorious story.

    Euronews: "It is already obvious that Russia cannot be brought to its knees, and its troops will not go anywhere. The euphoria must go, the time for compromise has come. Ukraine must accept the fact that it will not be able to take back the land by force."

    Financial Times: "Territorial surrender and security guarantees will be the basis of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine."

    However, Zelensky decided to play the big boys' game, not knowing that in such companies there are clear unwritten rules, for breaking which even your current friends can give the order to "cleaners". Rumours about the West replacing the crazy Zelensky have been circulating for a long time, but the current psychological attack may well be the last straw from the banknote on the camel's back.

    As for the realism of Kyiv's nuclear threats, the opinion of at least the domestic expert community is unambiguous: "The dog barks, the wind carries it."

    According to the head of the State Duma Defence Committee, Andrey Kartapolov, "the creation of (its own) nuclear weapons by Ukraine is absolutely out of the question; Kiev does not have the expertise, materials or equipment." Ukraine does not have and never has had its own program for creating nuclear weapons, and in order to make a nuclear bomb, it is necessary to create from scratch a complex technological cycle that even much more economically developed countries, which have also long dreamed of obtaining a "decisive argument," do not possess.

    Yes, in the remaining territory of Ukraine there are still a number of enterprises and organizations that at one time participated in the Soviet nuclear program. For example, the Kharkov Physics and Technology Institute, the Institute of Nuclear Research, the Institute of Organic Chemistry, the Institute of Safety Problems of the Nuclear Power Plant in Chernobyl , the State Scientific and Technical Center for Nuclear and Radiation Safety in Kiev and the Institute of Condensed Matter Physics in Lvov . However, at the moment their personnel and technological potential is approaching zero and, in addition, any of their movements in the direction of the "combat atom" would immediately become known to our intelligence (there are still enough of ours and simply adequate people in the scientific community of Ukraine).
    But even if there were the right people, Ukraine does not have the necessary capacities and technologies. The filling for an atomic bomb can be made in three ways: based on uranium (diffusion and gas centrifuge technologies) and plutonium (using special nuclear reactors).

    The diffusion technology that the Americans initially tried to use to create weapons-grade uranium is extremely expensive and energy-intensive. The power of three (!) nuclear reactors is required to operate one diffusion plant. Considering that there are only four nuclear power plants left in Ukraine, and the Russian army is shutting down its energy generation every day, this option is out of the question.

    The production of weapons-grade uranium using gas centrifuges requires the highest level of technological development. For example, the world's most powerful economy with the highest iPhone capitalization has only just reached it: on April 19 of this year, Biden announced that for the first time in history, the United States itself had produced 90 kilograms of enriched uranium. Iran has been producing uranium centrifuges for decades, but talk of a real possibility of producing nuclear weapons has only just begun. Whether Ukraine will be able to magically jump over such a technological barrier in "a few weeks" is a rhetorical question.

    To produce weapons-grade plutonium from uranium, special reactors are needed, which Ukraine does not have. All 15 operating reactors are Soviet-made, and it is impossible to use them for this purpose.

    All the talk about the possibility of producing nuclear weapons from spent nuclear fuel (SNF) is also in favor of armchair experts.

    In its "unexpected leak," the Bild publication stipulated that the "nuclear" Ukrainian scenario is calculated for the period after the settlement of the current conflict and taking into account that Ukraine will not be accepted into NATO.

    But there is a feeling that after the insane nuclear blackmail of its partners, Ukraine not only did not increase its chances, but simply turned them into dust. And if Zelensky tries to do something in this direction, Russia will not even need to do anything: his own will quickly deal with him.

    A war with Russia to the last Ukrainian is okay, it’s not a pity, and even that’s already boring, but an uncontrollable nuclear powder keg on the doorstep of Europe is definitely not needed by anyone.

    https://ria.ru/20241018/ukraina-1978614484.html

    GarryB, GunshipDemocracy, LMFS, Hole, Mir and Broski like this post

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 3896
    Points : 3972
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Kiko Fri Oct 18, 2024 3:31 am

    "It makes you shudder": Ukraine offered the US its services to occupy Europe, by Vladimir Kornilov for RiaNovosti. 10.18.2024.

    "Zelensky's victory plan... makes you shudder," Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban briefly but succinctly responded to the show staged by Kiev. "We need to move toward a strategy of peace, not a strategy of war. We need a ceasefire and peace talks!" the Hungarian leader summed up, promising to contact the German Chancellor and the French President on this matter.

    It is clear that Orban's reaction does not reflect the general opinion of the West. In any case, the leaders of other states, having familiarized themselves with the "Zelensky plan", preferred to remain silent or get away with meaningless phrases about how they were "studying these proposals with interest". The best indicator of the realization of the inadequacy of the plan, of course, is the cancellation by US President Joe Biden of the meeting of Western leaders in the "Ramstein" format under a clearly far-fetched pretext. Even then, it became clear that something was wrong with the widely advertised "victory plan". But few expected that it was so primitive and completely devoid of even a hint of common sense.

    The most telling reaction is that of German journalist Julian Roepke, who can hardly be suspected of sympathizing with Russia . On the social network X, he immediately demonstrated the unreality of implementing the first points of the plan presented in Kiev, which have already been rejected by the West, in particular, Ukraine's accession to NATO . Most other Western commentators focused on these points, trying to understand what Zelensky means when he talks about deploying a "comprehensive non-nuclear package to contain Russia" in Ukraine.

    In particular, this is the subject of an article in The Times. But the British military expert Justin Crump, hired by the newspaper, was clearly lost in Zelensky's initiatives, not having understood his last two points. Thus, the retired officer believes that Kyiv has offered the West to invest in Ukraine's mineral resources by stationing its troops there. Yes, the British analyst apparently simply did not believe it when he heard the fifth point of the brilliant "victory plan" that Ukraine, after inflicting "defeat on Russia", intends to replace American troops in Europe with its own experienced, war-torn military. Crump apparently attributed this to a bad translation.

    European media commenting on "Zelensky's plan" either omit this point or cite it in one line, trying not to comment. Because in fact, it is wild to imagine that Ukrainian "landsknechts" will replace the Americans at bases where the latest types of weapons are deployed, to which the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never had and will never have access. A logical question arises: from whom will Ukraine defend Europe if Russia is already "defeated"? Or does Zelensky present Ukrainians as occupation troops? The Europeans simply have not figured out who is going to occupy whom.

    Well, speaking on Thursday in the walls of the European Council , Zelensky went even further, specifying this point. He stated that after the introduction of "experienced, equipped Ukrainian military" into Europe, the Americans will be able to transfer their freed-up troops to the Pacific Ocean zone . That is, the Kiev autocrat, standing on the podium of the highest European body, openly suggests that Washington divide the world into two zones of influence between the United States and Ukraine? Now it is clear why Biden was embarrassed to hold a meeting with Zelensky in the presence of other Western leaders.

    Well, and frankly amusing are the attempts of Western media to somehow understand the fourth point of the plan - about the need to prevent deposits of rare earth metals from falling into the hands of Russia. Some write that Kyiv is thus proposing to invest in the economy of Ukraine. The Czech newspaper Denik N interpreted it as follows: "To exert economic pressure on Russia." But the German newspaper Tagesspiegel does not hide the fact that Zelensky is proposing that the West pay for his services with lithium, titanium, uranium and other strategic resources.

    It is even clear who the authors of the "victory plan" consulted when drafting this shameful clause. Let us recall how many times American Senator Lindsey Graham* repeated the cherished words with a trembling voice: "Ukraine is sitting on treasures - critical minerals worth at least 12 trillion dollars."

    So Zelensky included this point in his program. Apparently, he thinks that he is offering a deal that is beneficial to the Americans.

    And by the way, this can largely explain why Zelensky was so hasty with his proposal and even gave his sponsors three months to implement it. The Russian army is already approaching the DPR regional center of Velyka Novosyolka, immediately behind which is located one of the largest lithium deposits - Shevchenkovskoye. Apparently, Kiev decided that America can be scared by the prospect of these reserves falling into Moscow's hands .

    Surely this is taken into account in Washington. But still, no matter how much they would like to get their hands on lithium or coal from the Russian Donbass , the Americans, of course, do not intend to start a world war for this. That is why Kiev's latest howls about "immediate accession to NATO" have left both America and Europe indifferent. "A victory plan with no chance of implementation," the German agency RND coldly reacts.

    "Nobody believes that Ukraine will be able to regain all the territory conquered by Russia since 2014. <...> Zelensky must also gradually realize that such a scenario is unrealistic in the coming years," writes the Belgian newspaper De Standaard.

    But does Zelensky realize anything? Hardly. His brilliant "victory plan" clearly showed Western sponsors that their client had completely lost all sense of proportion. What the illegitimate president of Ukraine presented is nothing more than a desperate attempt to drag the West into an open war with Russia. This idea of ​​Kiev was very clearly and unambiguously voiced by the former Ukrainian ambassador to the United States Valeriy Chaly , who said the day before that Ukraine had only one chance left - to make NATO a participant in the war.

    Zelensky is telling the West this: defeat Russia for us, and we will pay you back with strategic raw materials and cannon fodder, which we will send to any point on the planet at your command. That's the whole "victory plan."

    [I]* Included in the list of terrorists and extremists in Russia.[/b]

    https://ria.ru/20241018/ukraina-1978611384.html

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, kvs, LMFS, Mir and Broski like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9547
    Points : 9605
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  flamming_python Fri Oct 18, 2024 4:18 am

    Kiko wrote:Nuclear Blackmail: Zelensky Decided to Scare the World with Weapons of Mass Destruction, by David Narmania for RiaNovosti. 10.17.2024.

    Time to take him out

    Him and his retinue

    There is not much more self-inflicted damage he can do against his own cause and army anyway. Zelensky's incompetence and intransigence has served Russia well and was relied upon diplomatically by Russia too, making very generous peace offers even recently but with the expectation that Zelensky would reject them anyway, and so it was.

    But if he's going to become increasingly crazy and unpredictable then that means his usefulness is at an end, and I doubt China or India or any BRICS members would give a shit if he took a Kalibr down the exhaust pipe after making all sorts of claims about acquiring nukes. He's signing his own death warrant.

    sepheronx and GunshipDemocracy like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 7515
    Points : 7605
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 18, 2024 4:24 am

    lyle6 wrote:
    If parts of Europe can be made to defect that is fine, highly unlikely though it may be.

    That is why I consider taking Odessa as a must for Russia in a long term perspective.
    It will open brand new conditions for the whole of middle Europe and finally connect them directly with friendly European counties via the Danube.

    GarryB wrote:
    The first would be easy... if they closed their borders and airspace to Ukraine this conflict would not last a lot longer, but that second one might not be as easy as you suggest... the EU inflicted pain on Russia and has killed a lot of their young men and civilians...

    True, but reconsider the fact that this time we are facing Russia as pragmatic as it has ever been in its entire history.
    The truth is, that even in times of war and embargo, with all the dogs barking, a caravan is moving.
    Europe is buying Russian fuels at a rate close to the prewar apogee.
    Germany is exporting machinery pretending not to do so.
    South Stream is operating at 100+ % capacity.
    Europe won't cease to exist. Russia won't either. All the global transport corridors will still connect Europe with China by Russia.
    I have just checked my delivery of 800 kg and 5m3 cargo from Guangdong.
    It is in Kazan Twisted Evil
    Take that, Russkie bear, I am sanctioning you!

    franco, flamming_python, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, JohninMK, LMFS, Hole and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11122
    Points : 11100
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Hole Fri Oct 18, 2024 5:53 am

    Those are mostly MTLB carriers.
    An equivalent of a truck on tracks, honestly.
    MT-LB´s are excellent swimmers. Very Happy

    GarryB and GunshipDemocracy like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15650
    Points : 15791
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  JohninMK Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:11 am

    First two items look like the scraping of the barrel of past promises

    Today Germany sent a new package of military aid to Ukraine, including

    8 Leopard 1 A5 tanks, 
    20 Marder combat vehicles 
    ammunition for tanks and vehicles. 
    Four MRAP vehicles, 
    two IRIS-T air defense systems 
    six Pancer 2000 howitzers were also sent. 
    AIM-9L guided missiles for F-16 aircraft were also announced, 
    several thousand drones and 
    demining equipment.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 GaJndBLXsAIvyGl?format=jpg&name=small

    kvs and PapaDragon like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40548
    Points : 41050
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:45 am

    Bulgar society is Russia-positive - it would be very hard not to be if Russkie gave them freedom from Ottoman oppression that was drawing them in blood.
    It is again a part of a corrupted political class that pushes the agenda the society doesn't share.

    All this may be true but Europe have been total bastards to Russia for the last 35-40 years, and all this Ukraine bullshit is obviously bullshit... yet most westerners never bother to take the time to actually find the truth, let alone use the ballot box to vote these pricks out.

    If the west can't be bothered to stop their governments from doing what they have done to the Russians, then why should the Russians forgive and forget.

    Russia was supplying cheap energy and cheap raw materials and supplying scientists to various European projects and launching European equipment to orbit, and in return the west calls them evil monsters and spends more that three times the Russian military budget for a year on supporting the Ukraine to continue killing Russian speaking Ukrainians, but also Russians.

    Sorry, but calling the people in charge in the west corrupt bad guys who are the problem and the voters could do nothing is just weak.

    A giant part of German society has not a gram of Russophobia, the same applies to the Austrians.

    Don't remember seeing those protests and the effects of their votes against politicians wanting to destroy Russia economically.

    Remember that there is a rather big German diaspora in Russia and vice versa.

    Seems the ones in the west just kept quiet while Russians were being banned from sports and cancelled generally.

    Russkie are way to pragmatic to dump those sentiments down the toilet - they will cooperate with the friendly EU member countries.

    But the problem for the west is that they are looking to BRICS and in other directions so there might not be as much gas as Europe needs left over for deliveries in a westerly direction. I suspect if Germany wants Nord Stream to work they will have to pay for it to be repaired, and again the shutting down of various capacities that have not been needed and the canceling of finding new gas sources might lead to a limited capacity going forward.

    Russia will trade, but I doubt its terms will be so nice as they have been, and there will not be any trust.

    Those are mostly MTLB carriers.
    An equivalent of a truck on tracks, honestly.

    Often used instead of BMPs in deep snow or deep mud... excellent mobility...

    But if he's going to become increasingly crazy and unpredictable then that means his usefulness is at an end, and I doubt China or India or any BRICS members would give a shit if he took a Kalibr down the exhaust pipe after making all sorts of claims about acquiring nukes. He's signing his own death warrant.

    If Russia does it, they need to make sure they take out the nazi leadership too, or he will just be replaced and the instructions the replacement follows wont be much different from what we have now.

    He is in a corner and he knows it... HATO membership or nuclear weapons are his only options other than complete defeat... what he does not realise is that HATO or nuclear weapons will result in his complete defeat too, but admission of defeat will get him topped by the nazis he empowered to control the country.


    True, but reconsider the fact that this time we are facing Russia as pragmatic as it has ever been in its entire history.

    I don't disagree they will trade with anyone including those that are not their friends.... they trade with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and Iran despite those being the main countries supporting the Afghans when the Soviet troops were there and also insurrections in Russian regions like Chechnia and Dagestan etc.

    Mostly the CIA fund those groups now and Chechens in exile.

    They turned their relations with Turkey around to the point where they can work together and do good things... Russia is building a nuclear reactor in Turkey and is now supplying the turbines instead of Germany AFAIK because the latter was dragging its feet.

    They wont bend over backwards for European benefit any more I suspect and when the gas export capacity is reached they likely wont fund expansion on their own to help out Europe.

    flamming_python, kvs, Hole and Broski like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13472
    Points : 13512
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:48 am

    Arrow wrote:Zelensky threatens to develop nuclear weapons.

    Cool

    With what exactly? lol1

    GarryB, GunshipDemocracy, Mir and Broski like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2594
    Points : 2588
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  lyle6 Fri Oct 18, 2024 7:12 am

    With Ukrainian genius brains. The kind that failed to crack the Russian designed PAL on Soviet nukes. Razz

    PapaDragon likes this post

    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy


    Posts : 6171
    Points : 6191
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Oct 18, 2024 7:56 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Time to take him out

    Him and his retinue

    There is not much more self-inflicted damage he can do against his own cause and army anyway. Zelensky's incompetence and intransigence has served Russia well and was relied upon diplomatically by Russia too, making very generous peace offers even recently but with the expectation that Zelensky would reject them anyway, and so it was.

    But if he's going to become increasingly crazy and unpredictable then that means his usefulness is at an end, and I doubt China or India or any BRICS members would give a shit if he took a Kalibr down the exhaust pipe after making all sorts of claims about acquiring nukes. He's signing his own death warrant.



    Well, it's time for Wunderwaffe. The next is the Grand Finale in the Bunker.

    flamming_python, kvs, PapaDragon, Hole and Mir like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Nov 22, 2024 6:13 am