The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

But these are large protests across many towns. And you have terrorists,murderers, absolute scum with helicopters and tanks killing indesriminately. The Eurolooney protests were rarely very large, and that was mostly just one city. Even when they were larger, it was a protest vs the political *system* not nec Yanuk vs the Euroclowns etc.


Moving on, back in January, I think most people would have resented just Lvov/parts of the West breaking away from the main Ukraine. Now we're talking about 3 regions breaking away from the main. Does this mean people are lowering their sights? What will the outcome be if 3, 6, 12 regions of the Ukraine break away? What about NATO trying to arm near the Dnieper, or even Kiev?

Agreement can be reached with a sensible EU. But the Baltic-Washington Neo-Con nutcase club... they wont listen to reasoning.

Ideally, I'd want Russian bases in a demilitarised West Ukraine, which canotherwise rot in hell and trade with the EU. And South, East and Kiev joining the Customs Union. Maybe some sort of Ukrainian Federation in parts. Maybe some regions independent, maybe some/many joining Russia. How we'd get to this stage... I'm not sure. Lets just hope that America is now massively discredited in the eyes of Central Ukrainians..

I think that if Lug and Donetsk vote for independence, then Odessa and Kharkiv will want to take steps to follow soon after.
But that benefit could be outweighed by large sections of the Ukraine becoming American puppetdoms, which would be very bad.

BTW on the IMF issue, it was interesting to see the conditions being talked about. Gas price paid to Russia would stay cheap, but there'd be a MASSIVE levy to the customers ie customers would be paying a massive amount back to the IMF.

The IMF are nothing but pirates. They'd pillage the Ukraine as they did in places like Indonesia. Destroy it even more, like has been done withg Greece etc.

"good relations"...

why USA  has good relations..?
because they  convinced the world they are strong..

the ONLY WAY TO HAVE GOOD RELATOIONS IS TO BE STRONG

no too many words needs to explain that.

if RUSSIA  is  strong .. will have good relations..
but has to be strong internaly also .. Russia has to make its own model .. its own history ..
Not the Eurovision style TV shows .. with a lot of fanny stupids  
not with Abramovits  spending Russian money on UK teams..

when Russia becomes strong .. will see a lot ofriends in her faivor..
until then ,,.. dont have any illussions that because U are just .. but show weak ... will have any "friends" ..

I think if you look at America's trade and actual resources in relation to the rest of the World, its wealthy. But its by no means whatsoever indicative of a megapower. The high standard of living of some is based around the space, the weather etc. Like a larger version of Australia.
The dotcom boom gave it a recent boost. But much of that stuff is hot air that could be copied better/improved elsewhere in the World.
eg spying ridden internet sites. As is the case with the bizarre dollar over-dominance over other FULLY convertible currencies.
(Note the Roubel and Reminbi must become fully convertible to be valid rivals to the Dollar in this area!)

America dominated the West and some of the 3rd world because it engineered a situation where the other global powers - Japan, Europe and Russia smashed each other to pieces.

This is America's last gasp desperate hope at remaining a "mega power". Most people are sick to death of American terror, bullying, lies and the like. Whether its financial fraud, GM poisons or genocide, people have had enough. An alliance between Europe and Russia would put an end to the evil empire's global meddling.

The thing is, many Americans wouild welcome a more decent home focussed America.

There is certainly an opportunity for Russia to asset itself as a counter weight to America. BUT, it must have critical mass ie size. ANd that means having the Russian leaning part of the Ukraine onboard. And the Western side of it benign eg a border area between Russia and an EU on good terms with Russia.

What a monkey

arpakola wrote:

"good relations"...

why USA  has good relations..?
because they  convinced the world they are strong..

the ONLY WAY TO HAVE GOOD RELATOIONS IS TO BE STRONG

no too many words needs to explain that.

if RUSSIA  is  strong .. will have good relations..
but has to be strong internaly also .. Russia has to make its own model .. its own history ..
Not the Eurovision style TV shows .. with a lot of fanny stupids  
not with Abramovits  spending Russian money on UK teams..

when Russia becomes strong .. will see a lot ofriends in her faivor..
until then ,,.. dont have any illussions that because U are just .. but show weak ... will have any "friends" ..

In Mariupol ,the Kiev military takes control of the ONLY building they had without any resistance , only 50 unarmed civilians where there
defending the building and of course they could not hold it with such pathetic assistance. You cannot start revolutions with 50 people. You cannot start revolutions with people hearts alone.. their actions and participation in the revolution is Absolutely required..  What you saw in kiev was a constant presence of 2,000 to 5,000 activist with people trading turns at different hours to keep civilian presence in the protesting camp. And that grew up to 100,000 protesters on special days. Thats not what you see in eastern regions.. 50 lonely activist in Mariupol will not convince anyone to give away the city their independence.


Now look at the so called center of the revolutin Donetsk..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTcJLqHwwgM  

You will see a dozen of people outside the building standing.. you cannot maintain a revolution with so few people outside. defending their zone.. A city with 3 millions residents only get a dozen or so activist every day ,guarding the building.. This is so wrong ,what they doing.
The lack of participation of pro russian protesters for fear of being attacked is risking the lives of all the people inside the buildings. If they had permanent camps of 5,000 people in every city in front of a building that will be enough to mantain the control of the zone.. but 50 grandmas defending a building is not going to convince Kiev to stop using their army to take by force the control of the cities..

Russia played very badly their cards in Ukraine ,they should NOT have allowed Yakunoych to lose its power. So simply could have been to send 5,000 strong street fighters to fight the euromaidans in kiev and send them to hospital and help police clear the protest and evacuate all buildings. But Puting decided to be politically correct and play by the rules ,when NATO was cheating. and now have very few cards left.
to play . One is sending undercover mercenaries to push the ukraine army back and another is to play the waiting game for ukraine economy collapse on its own (because the EU and US alone will not save Ukraine economy) ,at the expense of allowing many injustices at their borders ,russians harmed or killed and Putin Losing public opinion support.

But what did Kiev have? A couple of hundred idiots from Lvov. Some paid mercenaries, some Poles and whatever. And others who didn't even support the vermin in govt now.

Look what the S East has got. It has checkpoints, groups constantly retaking buildings and keeping buildings. It has its own regional governors. It has people circulating weapons. Its got people smuggling thro the borders. Its got people printing ballouts, taking over police stations. Converting police and army. ANd all the while they're fighting tanks, choppers, machine guns, Americans and the worst of the EU.

The S and East dont have to be out all day every day to constantly re prove what they are saying. Everyone KNOWS what they want. A referendum has been setup. One or two regions at a time is their philosophy. Look what happened in Odessa. You need security, you need organisation. Otherwise you'll just all get rounded up, arrested or worse.

Why would that Kiev clown send in the tanks if there wasnt much demand for a federal region/separation?

To people in the West, these S and Eastern protests are jawdroppingly big.

To put it another way, how big would the Euroclown protest have been if Yanukovich got some tanks and looneys to start shooting andfirebombing protestors?

PS Yanukovich disappeared because threats were made to his life, we are told. Well in that case, isnt there a similar way of getting the junta's people out? Just my thought..

sepheronx wrote:Words are meaningless. Lets hope whatever the promises may be, are actually written down, signed and stampped because otherwise, they end up being ignored and west pretends there were no discussions.

the most important political deals are never written down, like the U.S deal with the then Soviet union about the Cuba Crisis. remove the missiles from Cuba to remove on a later stage the missiles from Turkey.

i understand you are angry, but try to rationalise it. that your anger comes from a sense of wrong-doing on the part of the West. and, like me. you can not do anything to influence the events going on there right now.

and of course Victor can speak for himself, but i do want to point out judging by Victor's nationality and age he experienced the war where Croatia combatted Yugoslav's army and Serb paramillitary forces in the "Croatian war of independence". from my personal standpoint i feel its safe to say Victor understands what he is talking about. and he makes a very balanced and reasonable standpoint in his views in my opinion.

personally, i live here in western europe. and ever since i disagreed with several actions of my own army while i was on recent active duty i began reseaching myself backgrounds of the people we where in "conflict" with trough history. and yes i went trough the entire history dating back to my country's own "colonial" days.

its not meanth as an attack or insult Sepheronx, but like i as a Western european you can hardly use words like "dont be Naive victor". or suggest your own opinion is the one that is right in the discussion. you are directing your message to an individual where this is happening close to his home, and not in Canada where you live that never had war to its front door. the whole world is divided up with people with different history, culture and backgrounds. things do not work here in the European continent as they work there in the North america. and eastern europe has one of the deepest and richest cultural history's of them all dating back to like the prehistorics, greeks and beyond. they all interconnect one way or another with a lot of history and traditions attached.
im just saying, try not be so quick to judge. try to put yourself in the shoes of the one you are commenting on before you reply and take a look at its nations history if need be.

Russia missile exercises today ,hopefully those missiles are all aimed to send a big message to
NATO for their illegal sponsored coup in Kiev ..   

Mariupol may 9

Ukraine: Kiev forces open fire on civilians in Mariupol city centre



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macedonian wrote:Ukraine: Kiev forces open fire on civilians in Mariupol city centre



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Live stream ANNA News:
ANNA News Live stream

LIVE marioupole

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/newsfront4


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LIVE Marioupole

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/newsfront4


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GarryB wrote:

If you truely care about Russia and Ukraine, you will see how Putin is a loser amd coward. Even Lukashenko is saying thry cannot be dislodged from the Ukraine situation.

WTF has cowardice got to do with this?

If the Ukrainian people can't be bothered standing up to the illegal government in Kiev why should Russia invade and do it for them?

You know full well western media is totally biased, you have to remember that RT is not totally balanced either... Putin doesn't win any prizes if he sends in troops and finds the Russians there want autonomy and not Russian citizenship.

A civil war in the Ukraine is in US interests but is very much against Russian interests.

Think if it being like Syria... a full scale war with the west involved helping the terrorists is not in Russias interests in Syria so enough was done to avoid western intervention. In the Ukraine western intervention (conventional... I don't mean mercenaries who are already likely there) is not possible, but the risk is that Russia gets involved in a long bloody conflict that ruins its recent economic growth and damages its international relations to prevent near future recovery.

The Crimea might be worth fighting for because it was Russian territory and the naval base is probably worth it.

The Ukraine is populated with a lot of people full of hate for Russia... Russia does not benefit from taking those people into its borders... by force or by ballot box.

Let them have autonomy and the pro Russian areas can trade with Russia and the pro EU can latch their razor sharp fangs of the EUs nipple and bleed her dry.

Putin is not a fool to calm things down because Russia does not benefit if things escalate... Russia loses a lot if things get worse and descend into war.

Garry, your posts on military-technical matters are often fantastic.
But I think you're very wrong on this.

Many people in Europe hate the EU, but they dont want China to take over.
Despite many years of lie campaigns, still half the Ukraine wants to reunify with Russia. And those that dont, are only hesistating, so that they can have some influence over the mixed areas. That was always the case. And probably always will be.

This isn't about GDP, of business synergies and all that crap.
It is fundamental to the Russian identity, spirit and soul.

Russia could have "saved" 20m lives by capitulating to the Nazis last time. Given them Western Russia, had a border at Moscow.
The only thing was, it would have lost 150million souls.

Russia can win, because its so much more important to Russia than it is to the Euromeddlers or the Neo Con American scum.
Russia is on the side of right. And when forces are equal, the righteous will always win.

PS I hope I'm wrong, but I fear something terrible might happen in Mariupol. If Putin's wonderful plan doesnt start to evidence itself soon, I could see him being deposed. And replaced with someone that EVERYONE knows is an iron man.
Decision time. Does the Russian world exist. Or has Putin subsumed it into "friendly relations" with its enemies.

arpakola wrote:

Just superb!

Shooting unarmed people with their hands raised in the air:



Very 'brave' people these RightSektor guys.
Warning, GRAPHIC !

fire to people with 30,, canon

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Slavyansk. Militians captured GRAD ammunition.?



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Mariupol, 9 May
Civilians: "Go home! Go to Kiev!"

shot civilian in Marioupole ..


PUTIN  .. the selebrations were ok .. but you have a job to do now!!!!

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#ЄвроМайдан Здание ГУ МВД в #Мариуполь
pic.twitter.com/RhqLOipBsN http://fb.me/3qIiqtpVN

 
AGAIN?

SEVASTOPOL

9th May Marioupol







the burned Police station from the thugs