The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

Can anyone explain me what was the reason to let Chechens in? Clearly Russian gov should know who is going through the border. It just deals very bad PR.

Regular wrote:Can anyone explain me what was the reason to let Chechens in? Clearly Russian gov should know who is going through the border. It just deals very bad PR.

Just to let you know Russia has massive boarders, and in no way can Russia monitor every square centimeter 24 hours, 7 days a week. It's virtually impossible!

Let the Chechens in?  NATO didn't stop Western based jihadis flocking to fight in Syria or Libia, so it's all good, right?

The US' "2+2=5" spokesperson apparently said they don't consider Poroshenko's continuation/escalation of the "ATO" in Donbass to be using a "military solution to the problem".  
WTF?  So attack helicopters and migs would be "non-military" if Russia does it... ???

Lavrov has just been busy criticizing the Poroshenko junta for not fulfilling the agreement previousy signed by RU-EU-US-Junta, calling to atttention their failure to apply amnesty as the agreement called for, besides the announcement of prosecution against all the police/other forces who have sided against Junta, he criticized that the only amnesty they have given is for common criminal who want to join the Nat Guard.

Maidan army/NatGuard/RightSektor/etc have been attacking ambulances, and have apparently (?) even threatened to willfully attack hospitals that treat wounded Novorussian resistance fighters (never mind their "accidental" attacks on hospitals in Slavyansk, etc).

Here is pic of Maidan forces loading Grad rockets outside of Slavyansk... FUCK.
There is also apparently a threat by Maidan forces to use "special weapons" if Novorussian resistance does not yield the Donetsk airport...
I don't know if that would be cluster bombs, fuel-air, ...??? :-(

The development of events is getting worse and worse, and I'm shocked Russia has not done anything yet.  No-fly zone to deal with helicopters and jets used by regime, also targetting heavy weapons like artillery and grads would be a good start.  Hopefully they are getting more volunteer fighters into Donbass, including MANPADS as well as normal weapons, if that can end Junta air dominance without a no fly zone, then good enough.

Russia seems to have been overly eager to wrap things up to a workable relation with Kiev, getting paid for gas debt, and with the EU, etc...  
Kiev is demanding a price offer for future gas sales before they will pay gas debt, and no doubt they will expect the EU/US to scream bloody murder if Russia at any point in the future would not sell gas to them at that price.  IMHO, Russia cannot sell any gas to them while they are violating the signed agreement calling for no military force, amnesty, constitutional reform... It is just an insult to do so.  If Russia doesn't get paid for the gas debt in the mean time, tough luck, there's more important things.  Letting the Junta "normalize" some gas relationship that then becomes the "expectation" while freely continuing brutal attack on Donbass is just not legit.  The EU seems to have some idea that Ukraine has some right to the "European market price" despite Ukraine not being in the EU, and despite Ukraine having a history of not only not paying bills on time, but also of actively impeding transit flow to other customers, and now there is an illegal coup built on anti-Russian nationalism that is prosecuting a civil war vs. "their own" citizens... So no, they don't get the "standard" rate, if they can end the military conflict at some point, then they can get some "OK we'll sell you gas, but at the "repeat offender" price, unless you can do Russia some major favors to make up for your crimes" price.

I think Russia would really prefer to hold out for some scenario where Kiev is friendly/coopeative to them, but I just don't see that as likely or a prudent course to take, Novorussia is Russia's viable partner, and if rump Banderastan Kiev wants to be friendly with NATO it will, that isn't really the end of the world for Russia. Rump Banderastan/Kiev would STILL have a need for decent relations with Russia REGARDLESS, so even if Russia pisses them off more in Novorussia that doesn't change much, Kiev will be in chaos for a long while and probably need to come to some accomodation, that Russia can insist on exclusion of military cooperation with NATO, or cut off the gas.  Perhaps having the best possible leverage with Kiev might seem to Russia's interests, but fact is that they already allowed the NATO coup to occur, and Russia' ideal world is no longer a real possibility... Time to salvage what is possible, protect as many people as possible from the Junta's illegal seizure of power, and let NATO pay out it's ass to keep the Junta alive on the rump Ukraine it has left.  Maybe Russia could even refuse to sell at one price to Kiev as a whole, but only deal with end customers and negotiate deals based on friendliness to Russia.

It's hard to know "what is really going on" behind public posturing, Lavrov's critique of the Junta's ongoing failure to live up to agreement may very well be a prelude to justifying a harsher stance to them, after assuaging Western/world opinion by "playing along" and trying to be reasonable.  I don't think the recent trajectory in Russia's public stance can/should be sustained, though, because the Junta is not backing down from fascist attack dog mode, no doubt coincidentally the more their war goes on the more Donbass' industry and economy is destroyed, better for NATO to pick up scraps or seem like they are offering a better deal.  Really it almost seems like the junta's NATO-backed aggression can only be intended to invite a Russia "invasion" (to be condemned and trigger more sanctions, poision EU relations), but allowing them to get away with slaughter is worse.

I don't think this is immediately (operationally) relevant, but apparently Poland and Lithuania are re-starting their efforts for a joint brigade with Maidan Ukraine "that would straddle Nato’s eastern border and bring Ukraine’s armed forces closer to the Western fold." Involving NATO troops, this is basically very close to stealth extending NATO without agreement of all members, if that batallion gets involved in war, how can NATO not get involved?  Again, this is more on top of all the Junta's crimes, I don't see how Russia can "help" the Junta in any way in these circumstances.

I noticed somehow..Flamming Python are no longer post.. Hope he's fine there.

Stealthflanker wrote:I noticed somehow..Flamming Python are no longer post.. Hope he's fine there.

Yesterday he was very active at the militaryphotos.net.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
Yesterday he was very active at the militaryphotos.net.

Ah.. glad to see he's okay.  

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Regular wrote:Can anyone explain me what was the reason to let Chechens in? Clearly Russian gov should know who is going through the border. It just deals very bad PR.

Just to let you know Russia has massive boarders, and in no way can Russia monitor every square centimeter 24 hours, 7 days a week. It's virtually impossible!

You must be joking. You are trying to say Russia has no control of their border?
Russian border guards are not Ukrainians. They have UAVs, thermal cameras on the towers and etc. And bribing them wouldn't help you to sneak 50 men out in two kamaz without numbers.. 
Lets be real

mutantsushi wrote:Let the Chechens in?  NATO didn't stop Western based jihadis flocking to fight in Syria or Libia, so it's all good, right?

Two wrongs doesn't make it right, man. They can jeopardize all the movement. Well at least now they are behaving, but how long it will last when they start running wild like they did in Abkhazia and Georgia? Basaev was supported by Russia when he was cutting georgian heads in Abkhazia.
Now strange thing happened, my friends who are Ukrainians who speak Russian became fierce loyalists. They were anti maidan and pro federalisation.. Even if new president brushed federalisation under the carpet they started support him. When they seen foreign element, chechens in their country, it revoked something... 

I don't think this is immediately (operationally) relevant, but apparently Poland and Lithuania are re-starting their efforts for a joint brigade with Maidan Ukraine "that would straddle Nato’s eastern border and bring Ukraine’s armed forces closer to the Western fold." Involving NATO troops, this is basically very close to stealth extending NATO without agreement of all members, if that batallion gets involved in war, how can NATO not get involved?  Again, this is more on top of all the Junta's crimes, I don't see how Russia can "help" the Junta in any way in these circumstances.

One of many reasons I left the army.. I totally changed my views towards NATO in last 3 years. I can't continue this topic without swearing..

Your friends are retards then Regular.

Just because of some helpers, should not make them loyalists. Then they should be also pissed about foreign fighters used by Kiev. What about neo nazi's too? I guess they quickly forget that then? Or now they are bowing to a US ambassador to hand him a Cossack sword? That there is one of the biggest insults, especially to me, since my family is Cossack. I, am far too disgusted in Kiev, that I want it nuked from orbit. That is from my emotions now. I am sorry, but your friends should be shot for their retardation.

Yup... Racist "patriots" that close their eyes to criminals of the right ethnic hue are just deluded fools.
If these Ukrainians stood up to the criminal coup themselves, any Chechens would still be sitting on their asses back home.
Maybe they can go cry with Spanish Fascists who had to fight all the international volunteers fighting alongside the Spanish Republic.
The junta has been fully cooperating and coordinating with right sector and a host of illegal nationalist militias to impose it's will on SE,
those are the monsters that any Ukrainians should be concerned with first and foremost, not turning a blind eye to "Ukrainian Patriots",
claiming they don't really like the brownshirt degenerate thugs, but conveniently not resisting them when shit hits the fan.

And you cannot call people affiliated to the junta "loyalists", at least any more so than one can be loyal to a mafia boss.
The junta is flatly illegal, they don't even attempt legal justifications for ignoring the legal requirements for presidential impeachment.
(nor explain the necessity of ignoring the EU brokered F21 agreement which would have kept legal continuity and avoided war between junta & resistance)
So pretty much every act of the junta is illegal under the legal ukrainian constitution.  
That is the underlying legal facts, which is distorted when the Donbass resistance is spoken of as "rebels".
All the more bizarre when people who believe that narrative, ignoring the actual legal details,
then attack Russia for legal technicalities (not on human rights grounds, e.g. massacring civilians),
technicalities which don't even exist when you consider ALL of the legal situation (e.g. of coup illegitimacy etc)
Anybody cooperating with the junta is DIS loyal to the legitimate Ukrainian state.
Obviously when such an illegal coup has occured, overthrowing the constitutional order, yet there is no hope of restoring the previous order,
then other UKR citizens can and should take the "revolution" in the direction they desire: the junta has no legitimacy to impose it's political will on others.

WHATEVER any Chechens do doesn't change the reality of the underlying situation.
Of course if any Chechens do engage in any war crimes like you imagine, they should be shot, as DNR is doing to it's own people it catches looting.
Worst case if Chechens do end up raping and pillaging, your friends should fight BOTH Chechens and the junta...
But instead, they grant their loyalty and legitimacy to criminal fascists... Sounds like the fascist justification for Bandera's crimes.

Legal President Yanukovych of course requested in writing Russian protection of UKR citizens vs. junta forces, not restrained to Crimea,
There is visa free travel between RU/UKR, so if RU citizens enter Ukraine, maybe w/UKR citizens preventing junta lackeys from stopping them, so what?

Incidentally, I heard the junta announced they are ending visa free travel between UKR/RU (not that they haven't already been interfering with that).
If so, how will Russia respond?  Kick out all Ukrainians working in Russia and sending money back to Ukraine?  Prevent any wire transfers? (or cash transfer over border)

Ukrainian Pilots conversation while bombing near the airport..
Recorded apparently by Donetsk republic..or maybe Russia they believe they could be from brigade 831 tactical aviation.

Kadyrov denies media reports about participation of combat units from Chechnya in Donetsk

GROZNY, 28/05/14, ITAR-TASS, Konstantin Sazonchik. Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov has denied reports of Ukraine's media about participation of combat units from Chechnya in military actions in Donetsk. He wrote this in one of his official pages in social networks.

"Ukrainian sources circulated reports that some 'Chechen units' from Russia intruded into Donetsk. I am officially declaring that this is not true. No 'Chechen servicemen' or, still less, 'military columns from Chechnya' are involved in the conflict," Kadyrov stated.

The Head of the Republic has emphasized that Chechnya is one of the constituent entities of the Russia (RF) and, in accordance with the Constitution of the country, has no armed forces.

"lf someone saw a Chechen man in the conflict zone, this is his personal affair. Two-thirds out of three million Chechens live outside the Republic, in the West as well. We cannot and should not know who of them goes where, just as Kiev (authorities) did not know who of Ukrainians travelled to Grozny to fight. If the authorities of Ukraine want to see 'Chechen units' in Donetsk, why go to Donetsk at a time when there is a good road to Kiev?" Kadyrov queried.

According to the Head of Chechnya, in actual fact he proceeds from the assumption that "Ukraine, in the final analysis, just as was the case previously, will become a country friendly to Russia and that the people of Ukraine is to us a fraternal one."

"We want peace to set in that country," Kadyrov stressed.

I want information about Poroshenko for those who know better than me

Ukraine’s National Guard Uses Banned Explosive Bullets Near Luhansk
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140528/190187795/Ukraines-National-Guard-Uses-Banned-Explosive-Bullets-Near.html
LUHANSK, May 28 (RIA Novosti) – Soldiers of Ukraine’s National Guard have used prohibited explosive bullets while shelling the city of Rubizhne, near Luhansk, a member of the local self-defense forces told RIA Novosti Wednesday.
“They have begun firing explosive bullets in residential areas. People have started hiding in basements,” he said. “Apparently, the National Guard is unaware that explosive bullets are banned by international convention,” he added.
Shooting has currently stopped in the area and there have been no reports of injuries.
Local residents reported earlier that shooting had resumed in the city and continued throughout the night in 5 to 10-minute intervals.
Pro-federalization protests have swept across Ukraine’s southeastern regions in response to the regime change in Kiev in February and ouster of country’s legitimate president Viktor Yanukovych.
In mid-April, Ukraine’s interim government launched a special operation to crack down on federalists, but failed to gain control over the self-proclaimed independent republics. Moscow described the operation as a punitive act.

Wow still using easy to spot blue kamaz. Do rebels want to be killed in large numbers again??? Someone has to tell them to not to move so in the open and in one spot. Wtf!!!!
2 kamaz full of people where obliterated by mortars. Are they tricking crazy taking same road in a nice line.. Take other streets, diversionise your travel paths, use vanguard dressed as civilian.. pizdec,

I think lots of hospitals in E.U are receiving hearts, kidneys , livers and what not of Ukraine people
killed in SEast

Approx 1000 bodies are gutted by the so called medical doctors of Eastern Ukraine,
Ukraine people wanted to join E.U
Ukraines E.U integration seems to be delayed.

But lots with their internal organs are already   integrated with E.U.

It is now the internal organs which seem to be integrated with E.U but not the people..
strange..
wounded and dead Ukraine soldiers cut apart

Regular wrote:
Wow still using easy to spot blue kamaz. Do rebels want to be killed in large numbers again???
Someone has to tell them to move so in the open and in one spot. Wtf!!!!

Correct due to their miscalculation in taking Donetsk airport they suffered heavy casualties.
It was a Odessa event in Donetsk.

Better not to go on offensive and remain tight just in those buldings .
Monday was a horrible day for rebels.

They would be advised not to repeat those events and withdraw into security buildings in Donetsk.

I think Putin Major obstacle aside of the lack of participation of Ukrainians in their defense and in activism..
Is their dependence on EU trade. If Russia invade Ukraine , Obama can justify the European Union to isolate trade with Russia.
and not allow Russia to sell any Gas to the west. Had the Russian economy independent of Europe , and that those Gas and oil deals with China were done 10 years ago.. Russia could easily sustain the impact on their economy invading Ukraine and be better prepared to stay in Ukraine as long as needed months or years until Kiev give up their plans to crackdown on their own civilians.


Ukraine: Miners rally for an end to military operation in Donbass

calripson wrote:The support to join Russia is not nearly as uniform in Donetsk and Lugansk as it seems and even less so in other areas. The younger generation (under 30) has essentially no memory of living in a unified state and has been subject to Ukrainian propaganda via media and school for 23 years.

From a military perspective it is clear that Putin has decided to not intervene directly. Given that, local militia cannot stand and fight to hold ground against an enemy with superior firepower and an airforce. Smaller team tactics and use of IEDs, mines, mortars, sniper ect would seem to be the logical reaction. The conflict is ultimately political and time is a critical factor. The only way I see Donetsk or Lugansk gaining independence is if the rest of Ukraine gets sick and tired of the cost of holding those lands. That would only be the result of a long, protracted conflict. Poroshenko wants a quick, decisive victory.

It is informative to ask what would America or NATO do in the same situation: clearly they would covertly supply intelligence, weapons, and aid as they do in Syria and perhaps Russia is doing this in Ukraine. The other thing they would do is declare a "no fly zone" over Donetsk and Lugansk. Putin cannot do this as he risks direct NATO intervention and he knows (despite what some people would like to think) that establishing air superiority is America's forte and Russia is no match for America or NATO on this regard.

I think you're giving US sources too much credibility. The referendums voted MASSIVELY in favour of separation. I said "joining Russia" but I use the terms interchangeably. Just as the Lvov loons talk about joining the EU. Federalism, separatism, CustomsUnion, they're very similar things.

The Ukraine hasnt been under Nazi control for 23 yrs. Its had pro Russian years too. And those kids havent all been indoctrinated with crap. Many are too young to vote. Many were too old/sensible to be poisoned - esp if in the S and East.

You say there is no mil option. But Putin has said there is. And Georgia was settled v quickly. Georgia is weaker than the anti Russian Ukrainian areas. BUT, its taking steps to mobilise, even join with Poland, which is massively disturbing.

Finally, there's no way in the World America would want to go toe to toe with Russia over this. Its not THAT important to America economically, nor even to Russia economically. The issue goes beyond economics. Its about culture, language, history, the identity of the Russian and East Slavic people. Kiev alone is infact a sacred place to Russians. Its like handing Rome to Muslims. Or Mecca to neo Conservatives. Imagine Wash DC becoming part of China?

More and more I'm thinking Putin's got stage fright. Very sad state of affairs.

http://www.dnrnovosti.com/2014/05/blog-post_63.html
Обнаружены сотни трупов укробойцов со вспоротыми животами.

18.05.14, славянские ополченцы, в ходе ночной разведывательной операции под высотой Карачун, как известно, находящуюся под контролем украинских военнослужащих и бойцов нацгвардии, обнаружили порядка 180 тел погибших нацгвардейцев со вспоротыми животами. Так же, чуть дальше в районе Троицкого кладбища, обнаружено еще 300 тел, не захороненных, со вспоротыми животами и без внутренних органов. Накануне вечером, в этом районе, местными жителями была замечена машина «Красного креста». Следует напомнить, что еще в начале мая, поступала информация о том, что на Донбассе, кроме наёмников из «Частных военных компаний», в "помощь" тем же наёмникам, правосекам и украинской армии появились иностранные же врачи со спецоборудованием. Они изымают органы из убитых и даже тяжелораненых бойцов. Так же, в регионе появилось заметное количество машин инкассации и скорой помощи с киевскими номерами, а использование их по назначению вызывает серьёзные сомнения. Интересные данные поступают из госпиталей, где размещают раненных бойцов украинской армии, нацгвардии и правого сектора. В этих заведениях появились новые специалисты - хирурги, большая часть из них иностранцы. Но основная странность в том, что они занимаются тяжелоранеными представителями нацгвардии и ПС, делают доп. анализы, в которых нет необходимости при лечении этих повреждений и на "лечение" многих отправляют в Киев и Днепропетровск, при этом полностью изымая сопутствующую документацию. "Лечение" в кавычках, потому что в телефонных разговорах и между собой упоминают о хороших конкретных органах того или иного пострадавшего. Видимо, о знании английского и латыни местным персоналом вплоть до медсестер им донесли информацию не в полной мере. Очень велика вероятность, что некоторые сторонники евроинтеграции окажутся в Европе раньше, но по частям. Из всего выше сказанного следует вывод: не зря весь местный олигархат, США и Европа потратили и продолжают тратить неимоверные деньги на дело «Украинской демократической революции»… Все им окупится или уже окупается - «кому война, а кому мать родна». При этом открывается в полной мере верх цинизма и всех их лицемерных заявлений, что они, якобы, заботятся о самом народе. Поздравляю, господа свидомые украинцы. В тот момент, когда вы боретесь с ветряными мельницами и своими братьями за «исконно украинские земли» и «чистоту своей великой нации», геноцид славян и прежде всего украинцев, уже идет полным ходом.  

http://garizo.blogspot.gr/2009/04/house-of-horrors-serbians-kidnapped-for.html

One room in that yellow house, according to the journalists, was used for involuntary surgeries, where the prisoners' organs were extracted.
Afterwards, the organs, according to the sources, were sent abroad from Mother Teresa airport in Tirana where they were used in transplantations for Western patients who could afford to pay for it.
The victims who had one kidney removed at first were returned to the same barrack to wait to be taken to a butcher block again, for other vital organs, and be killed.
"In this way, the other camp prisoners knew about the destiny that awaits them. According to the sources, they begged, in terror, to be killed at once," Del Ponte says.  

====================================


Ιtalian fascist fight with Kiev army
http://popoff.globalist.it/Detail_News_Display?ID=102928di

How can US not let Russia to sell gas to EU? Winters would be fun in Europe. I doubt that US can push Russia with their gas... maybe in 5 years or so

The vote in the referendum in Crimea implied about a 80-85% support for reunification with Russia with Tartars the major opposition. (The West has had a program of supporting Tartar immigration into Crimea with the sole purpose of diluting the pro-Russian demographic). In Donetsk and Lugansk actual support for reunification with Russia is in the 65-70% range (basically the people who did not vote are no votes). This is still a majority but there is certainly at least 25% of the population in those areas that are against reunification and that is disproportionately younger people. In places like Kharkov it is probably close to 50/50. Putin knows this. why does he need the hassle of incorporating a native population where there will be a substantial hostile population ?

Wow still using easy to spot blue kamaz. Do rebels want to be killed in large numbers again??? Someone has to tell them to not to move so in the open and in one spot. Wtf!!!!
2 kamaz full of people where obliterated by mortars. Are they tricking crazy taking same road in a nice line.. Take other streets, diversionise your travel paths, use vanguard dressed as civilian.. pizdec,

yes I wonder too

basic military training skill..
never move in such concetrations not on trucks nor on foot..
smaller private cars with 2-3 people each and in 300 meters distance to each other

=========================================

arpakola wrote:

Fake. This photo is from Chechenya (Grozny probably). It can be found on a site from 2009: http://robertamsterdam.com/2009/04/a_gentlemans_agreement/

And on a Russian site (6th photo from the top) which says it is from January 1995:
http://nnm.me/blogs/Svoj_v_dosku/pervaya_chechenskaya_aleksandr_nemenov/

Is it that hard to do a reverse image search? It looks that the local tinfoilists aren't capable of doing even this.

As Sa'iqa wrote:

arpakola wrote:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-krs4RiADHNM/U4TnRzTCfFI/AAAAAAAAAtw/shETg_H_WSM/s1600/12978_original.jpg

Fake. This photo is from Chechenya (Grozny probably). It can be found on a site from 2009: http://robertamsterdam.com/2009/04/a_gentlemans_agreement/

And on a Russian site (6th photo from the top) which says it is from January 1995:
http://nnm.me/blogs/Svoj_v_dosku/pervaya_chechenskaya_aleksandr_nemenov/

Is it that hard to do a reverse image search? It looks that the local tinfoilists aren't capable of doing even this.

agree....but ..>> http://www.dnrnovosti.com/2014/05/blog-post_63.html

begging for your bardon.. but I realy have no free time to make reverse searching for every single image ..
Thanks for notice any way

All journalists usually uses unrelated photos. Don't know why. May be because they are lazy asses