The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

Regular wrote:

Asf wrote:

You and I are enslaved, so are the Russians

By whom? Jewish reptiloids?

By our politics perhaps?

Try it with World Bank that holds our countries enslaved in an economical system that is controlled by PRIVATE BANKS and backed by traitors politicians that pass laws to protect those scum from laws and government control.

Can FP and Arpakola inform us what is the situation at Donetsk Airport.. ?
Heard it was partly controlled by Rebels and partially by Right Sector militants..

At least five killed after fighter jet attacks admin HQ in Lugansk, Ukraine

Now the Nazi Airforce is attacking Gov HQ Buildings with civilians inside ,captured by pro Russian forces..
Kiev is saying they are not bombing civilians ,that the bomb in HQ was perhaps that they tried to attack their Airforce
And by accident ended firing on their own room..   

http://rt.com/news/163076-ukraine-lugansk-clashes-jet/


Russia should demand a probe on what kind of explosives bombed the HQ building where many civilians live inside.
This is a new chapter on the battle now the Ukraine army is directly targeting buildings filled with civilians.. Will love to
see Russia drop an iskander in the military airport where the combat plane took off and wipe the plane ,the pilot and the entire military base.

Aside question anyone knows if Russia have (non nuclear) cruise missiles with enough power to destroy a military airport infrastructure ,and planes? The only thing im aware are ballistic missiles for such kind of power.

http://rt.com/news/163076-ukraine-lugansk-clashes-jet/

(have no idea on the status of Donetsk airport)

Any way i think that airport is not such an issue as to open the blogades and the borders with Russia..

flamming_python wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

Anyone know what kind of Progress (if any) the Donetsk forces have achieved in the last days?
The kiev junta is saying they are clearing every day a territories inside Donetsk and Lugansk.
Wondering if the Rebels are now in full retreat and under siege and if the Ukraine army have managed to lock them and unable to get Food or supplies.

- Slavyansk rebels have dug themselves in pretty good; trenches, heavy MGs, auto-grenade launchers, MANPADs, BMDs, etc... all the while being shelled intermitently, but nothing heavy. Apparently a factory caught fire after some artillery hit it.

That's wrong. Msta-Bs had been spotted on Karachun mountain.  And they were fired too:

Russia is pushing for humanitarian corridors and a cease of fire and demand to return to the Geneva agreements..





I think the trap that NATO wants is to force Russia invade one city and then another and then another.. and Use the violence and use the  crimes committed against civilians Pro Russia ,to lure Russia into more cities until they will end a full scale invasion all the way to Kiev.
And having 40,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine with tanks is going to be very expensive. and more expensive if in the end the majority of civilians are against you..NATO seems to intend to give Russia their IRAQ war .

All this civilians lives wasted simply because the lack of people participation into rallies .. Russia pretty much have hands tied ,
If only 2 cities Rebel and the rest nothing.  Had all eastern Ukraine and south ukraine rebel against kiev and take control of buildings
Crimea like.. long time ago Russia will have invaded.  People support is important , if people do not participate in rallies and Rebel against the government and just let others do the job ,if they do not help themselves ,then there is nothing Russia can do..  Russia will NOT send their tanks to any country is only a minority protest..even less if in the city half the population will be ready to create human shields against their
tanks or to start sabotages attacks against their soldiers. Just look at the IRAQ war.. US invaded won all the battles ,lost 1 trillion dollar and in the end won no support. And now IRAQ befriend Syria and IRAN and Russia and give Oil and weapons contracts to Russia without them firing a single shot.

I WANT to believe Putin has it all thought out. That there's a bigger picture. That he's completely doing the right thing.

But I'd struggle to accept that if this was some far flung fringes of Central Asia. But its not. Its Russian people, the historic homeland of Russian people.

For a long time, my heart has said "this doesn't seem right, standing aside". Putin has shown himself to be a very capable politician. But sometimes... people just lose it. On previous matters, he's usually been very right. But here... I really struggle.

What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

Regular wrote:

Asf wrote:

You and I are enslaved, so are the Russians

By whom? Jewish reptiloids?

By our politics perhaps?

Lets not be naive here, politicians come and go but the IMF is destroying the 'standard of living' for every citizen of every country for the past 60 years regardless of which milquetoast politician is in power. Hell even the classically 'strongman politician' such as Gorbachev succumbed to the advances of the World Bank, IMF and Globalization.

What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

Im sure Russia will end with peacekeeping troops in Eastern Ukraine , the question is When.  I think they are trying to get things
through UN first to minimize the conflict from becoming a full scale war between Ukraine and Russia with NATO arming Ukraine.

IF i was taking decisions in Russia and will have stopped NATO long time ago.. and not wait them to target Ukraine. For example
in the Syrian Conflict allow US to bomb Syria and arm Syria with all the weapons they need to sink the US navy at their coast. Make Americans and NATO to realize that they are not invulnerable as they believe. One Aircraft Carrier sink is all you need to proof that.
And then Russia retaliate to NATO if they continue bombing Syria. This will have caused massive Unrest in All American and European cities
to stop the war ,and all NATO leaders involved in arming rebels lose public support. after that.. After a limited regional war where Aircraft carrier destroyed and NATO defeated ,you will NOT see them again trying to provoke Russia in another war like they now doing in Ukraine.
Russian tactics are a take no risk one. unless they have no other choice..and it will works ..but not at expense of many civilian casualties.. as have been Syrian war.

Vann7 wrote:

What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

Im sure Russia will end with peacekeeping troops in Eastern Ukraine , the question is When.  I think they are trying to get things
through UN first to minimize the conflict from becoming a full scale war between Ukraine and Russia with NATO arming Ukraine.

and where.. I would say ..

Firebird wrote:I WANT to believe Putin has it all thought out. That there's a bigger picture. That he's completely doing the right thing.

But I'd struggle to accept that if this was some far flung fringes of Central Asia. But its not. Its Russian people,  the historic homeland of Russian people.

For a long time, my heart has said "this doesn't seem right, standing aside". Putin has shown himself to be a very capable politician. But sometimes... people just lose it. On previous matters, he's usually been very right. But here... I really struggle.

What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

Putin is bidding his time, after the nation-state destroying IMF austerity measures are put in to place, the Kiev govt. will be so weak, helpless, and discredited that the govt. structure will go through a process of thermodynamic collapse, there'll be a crisis in the South and East and a massive influx of refugees fleeing in to Crimea and Western Russia forcing the Russian military to intervene. Then the justification for shutting off the natural gas will be there because the civil war in Ukraine will threaten the gas flow and turn the natural gas pipelines in to a massive fire hazards due to the fighting, then the freezing cold winters will sort the rest out.

This is exactly the major thing stopping Russia from invading aside of the lack of enough people support
.That Ukraine economy will collapse on its own without Russia doing anything.  Is not a matter of IF but WHEN.

SO NATO is trying to provoke Russia to invade BEFORE the Ukraine economy collapse. Because if Russia invade as you know most ukrainians whether they like their government or not , Do not want their Nation to end split. And if Russia Invade it will only help the Nazi
Government to create Unity among most Ukrainian ,that they could not ever achieved had Russia not invaded.

So RUssia have a winning card.. is called the Ukraine doomed economy. it will collapse and their joining PRO EU leaders will be blamed for it. Ukrainians will feel deceived with promises about a better future under the EU.

Even the Boxer who used to talk always very bad about Russia when was not in politics,now says that Ukraine needs to have good relations with EU and Russia. So once all Ukrainians realize that ,they have been deceived and their streets does NOT turn into Gold and money does not fall from the sky for joining the EU  and NATO.. they will SEE for the first time the HARD Inconvenient truth. That they need Russia to help their economy. And this is when people start in mass to boycott their pro NATO government that have failed to fix their nation economy. and this is when they will seek help from Russia and agree to overthrow their own Government. Only the neoNazis under salary from US congress in the west will remain loyal. Is all about money .. patriotism means shit.. if you have a family that cannot eat. All those neoNazis that hate Russia will welcome Russia with open Arms as soon their families have nothing to eat ,no food ,no money.  Russia have a very Big Chance to get all Ukraine under  its Orbit if they just allow them to realize their mistake for joining the EU and NATO.


Update here.. moment the combat plane throw several missiles to the the building



This totally contradict the kiev version that they do not bomb civilians.

Vann7 wrote:

What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

Im sure Russia will end with peacekeeping troops in Eastern Ukraine , the question is When.  I think they are trying to get things
through UN first to minimize the conflict from becoming a full scale war between Ukraine and Russia with NATO arming Ukraine.

IF i was taking decisions in Russia and will have stopped NATO long time ago.. and not wait them to target Ukraine. For example
in the Syrian Conflict allow US to bomb Syria and arm Syria with all the weapons they need to sink the US navy at their coast. Make Americans and NATO to realize that they are not invulnerable as they believe. One Aircraft Carrier sink is all you need to proof that.
And then Russia retaliate to NATO if they continue bombing Syria. This will have caused massive Unrest in All American and European cities
to stop the war ,and all NATO leaders involved in arming rebels lose public support. after that.. After a limited regional war where Aircraft carrier destroyed and NATO defeated ,you will NOT see them again trying to provoke Russia in another war like they now doing in Ukraine.
Russian tactics are a take no risk one. unless they have no other choice..and it will works ..but not at expense of many civilian casualties.. as have been Syrian war.

Most of what you described would have indeed happened IF Russia had left the the INF treaty, but sadly this wasn't the case.

As for the unrest, i don't believe for a second the Americans are even capable of that, sheep will be sheep after all, and as for Europe..... maybe.

This is a month old but anyway .. Apparently the pilot captured a month ago was a Grey Stone CIA mercenary.
and the only survivor of an helicopter that had 13 americans killed.

US Refuses To Take Back 13 Dead CIA Spies Killed In Ukraine

http://www.eutimes.net/2014/05/us-refuses-to-take-back-13-dead-cia-spies-killed-in-ukraine/

Vann7 wrote:

This is a month old but anyway ..  Apparently the pilot captured a month ago was a Grey Stone CIA mercenary.
and the only survivor of an helicopter that had 13 americans killed.

US Refuses To Take Back 13 Dead CIA Spies Killed In Ukraine

http://www.eutimes.net/2014/05/us-refuses-to-take-back-13-dead-cia-spies-killed-in-ukraine/

The eutimes isn't reputable.

Zivo wrote:

The eutimes isn't reputable.

Im sure the American media is very reputable in world conflicts..   
Russia Sergey Lavrov is also saying he have solid evidence  there are americans mercenaries from black water
fighting with the Ukraine army ,at least 300 is the number given of american soldiers. Im sure that Russia have more inside
information than the traditional media  and know what they saying.  

In other news here is an interview with the Donetsk forces ,Vostok Commander  Alexánder Jodakovski.
he was a former Special Forces leader of the Ukrainian Alpha group..that apparently all defected to the Donetsk Side?.
His forces also have volunteers from Ukraine but also volunteers from South Ossetia and a few from chenchenia.

http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/129940-batallon-vostok-autodefensas-donetsk-ucrania

one miner say he joined the Federation Forces after he saw how a little girl was killed by a proyectile  
of the ukraine army.

Use google translator

https://translate.google.com

So how were the things ended with border guards?

Firebird wrote:What is so bad about "Russian peacekeeping troops" being stationed to prevent the slaughter of civillians?

I can't really think of much.
The legitimate president of Ukraine is still Yanukovych and he requested Russia protect his citizens against forces loyal to the junta.
That wasn't specific to Crimea AFAIK, and is still in effect.
Too much discourse, even Russian-centric discourse, seems to accept the NATO groupthink which somehow ascribes legitimacy/normalcy to the Kiev junta.
There is zero reason any Ukrainian citizen should submit to armed forces of an illegal junta that is in bed with open fascists,
certainly not when the coup has already destroyed the constitution and continued to break laws, e.g. use of military vs. ukrainians,
as well as ongoing political repression and violence vs. opposition.  When fascists are allowed to break all laws like that then all bets are off.
The Novorussian armed forces are not "rebels" vs the (legitimate) "government", they are antagonists to a junta which has seized power.

NATO and their pet junta were the ones who destroyed the sovereign Ukrainian constitutional order,
and that when they had the Feb 21 agreement in hand, i.e. there was no plausible necessity for the coup beyond humoring the fascists.
The coup destroying the constitutional order left a legitimacy gap which other groups are 100% justified in standing up for their position.
The problem is not Russia's actions,
as Russia's diplomacy raising such issues while taking no other action for almost a week following the coup were just grossly ignored by the West.
Now the people trying to attack Russia for abstract legalisms (e.g. violating UKR sovereignty) while ignoring abstract legalism that cut against their own side (and the argument vs. Russia) are just 2-faced liars,
but what is sad is when people who believe they are opposing the NATO-junta end up going along with the NATO-junta premise, that the Kiev junta has ANY legitimacy at all.
A junta organizing an election does not change anything, because random armed groups cannot just declare elections and legitimately change the government on their terms and timetable.
The fact that ongoing military operations should normally require declaration of state of emergency, precluding elections, as well as other legal violations, are all just icing on the cake of illegitimacy.

That said, politics still matters, and "feelings" still matter... Even when legitimated by law, total force is not the ideal outcome.

------------------------------------------------------------

Did anybody see the Maidan-ist rationalization for the attack on (Novorussian controlled) Lugansk RSA?  
Obviously they are feeling the guilt of their crimes, because otherwise they would just gleefully embrace the attack as their own,
but they are ridiculousy claiming it was the Novorussian's own attack, an attempted Igla attack on over-flying jet,
never mind an Igla couldn't do that much damage in that much area with that many impact craters, nevermind the footage of the jet launching rockets.

arpakola wrote:

It seems creepy even to me

It is said before that Russia cannot intervene at this stage.
It will be disatrous for the russian econony in medium term.

Right now Russia is not even demanding prepayment for gas and giving Ukraine 1 month
extra time to pay the debt of previous year..!
This is what the situation has become..    

 From my pont of view these attacks are enough for Russia to intervene militarily.

 But my point of view does not matter in that sense.

I request Arpakola to provide some warning like "Graphic Video"  to other people to show
the after effects of bombing in a video clip.

gaurav wrote:It is said before that Russia cannot intervene at this stage.
It will be disatrous for the russian econony in medium term.

Right now Russia is not even demanding prepayment for gas and giving Ukraine 1 month
extra time to pay the debt of previous year..!
This is what the situation has become..    

 From my pont of view these attacks are enough for Russia to intervene militarily.

 But my point of view does not  matter in that sense.

I request Arpakola to provide some warning like "Graphic Video"  to other people to show
the after effects of bombing in a video clip.

you are right .. but last night I posted from mobile adroid and had not flexibility.. but U are right..

East Ukraine militia down fighter plane, helicopter gunship, 4 APCs

SLOVIANSK, 03/06/14, ITAR-TASS, MAXIM SHIPENKOV. People’s militia in the city of Sloviansk, east Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, have downed a fighter plane Su-25 and a Ukrainian helicopter gunship as well as four armored personnel carriers (APC), Sloviansk People’s Mayor Vyacheslav Ponomarev told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday.

Ukraine's military has amassed armored vehicles and self-propelled mortars and howitzers near the town of Sloviansk, Stella Khorosheva, spokeswoman for the Sloviansk people's mayor, told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday.

The military equipment numbering 100 units includes Grad salvo systems, Khorosheva said.

An An-30 plane has been sighted over Sloviansk, making periodic flyovers. According to Khorosheva, clashes began at around 6.00 am local time on Tuesday.

"A report said that Ukrainian troops had broken through in the area of the village of Semyonovka," she said, adding that Ukraine's National Guard was using tanks.

"It looks like they've brought here all their army and (military) equipment," she said.

Earlier, a people's militia representative told ITAR-TASS that Ukrainian military aircraft had delivered several missile strikes at Semyonovka and that the village of Cherevkovka had come under missile and machine-gun fire as well.

"There have been no casualty reports yet, because everybody is holding the line or is in shelter," the militia representative said.

East-Ukrainian freedom fighters advance toward Kramatorsk airdrome amid fierce fighting

KRAMATORSK, 03/06/14, ITAR-TASS. Ukrainian volunteer guards have advanced on three armored cars from the building of the town hall of the eastern city of Kramatorsk, one of the epicenters of combat clashes in Eastern Ukraine, towards the local airdrome where fighting between volunteers and units of the army has been going on for several hours.

“The armored cars were moving by Parkovaya Street towards the airdrome, in the vicinity of which numerous blasts and incessant firing from large-caliber guns can be heard,” a spokesman for the volunteers said.

In addition to this, reports spoke of combat clashes near the township of Yasnogorka and the administrative boundaries of the city.

“At this moment, we don’t have any data on the victims,” the spokesman said, adding that the current clashes were the most serious ones ever since the outbreak of the armed standoff between the freedom fighters in the east and the forces loyal to the government in Kiev.

In the meantime, fighting between the opposition and the pro-Kiev armed units was underway in Slavyansk, a city 10 km away from Kramatorsk. Monday, artillery shelling disrupted electric power supplies to the township of Semyonovka near Slavyansk.

Earlier reports spoke of three persons killed as a result of an armed clash between the volunteers and the army units near Yasnogorka. The Itar-Tass interlocutor said the clash had occurred in a place near Mount Karachun where the positions of the army and pro-government paramilitaries are located.

“A passenger car was blown up and three persons died inside it,” he said. “The ambulance cars that tried to evacuate the wounded underwent gunfire. They are now in a standstill as the shots pierced their tires.”

However, the volunteers took positions around the ambulance cars in a bid to prevent their seizure by the pro-government forces.
Early information suggested that volunteer freedom-fighters had died in one of the cars.

Im afraid I have to come back to this..