Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

flamming_python wrote:

No really, just an acknowledgement that both sides have to sit down and agree on something mutually beneficial. Such a Ukrainian state as I described will completely fit in with Russian interests.

For negotiations, you need someone to talk to. There is no one to talk to in Ukraine at the moment. There is no party that would control the situation and could ensure the implementation of any agreements. The inability to comply with the simplest Minsk agreements over the past eight years proves this. In fact, what Russia is doing now is precisely providing a chance for the creation of Ukrainian statehood, and not the shame that Ukraine has been since the collapse of the USSR.
And stop wailing already, you're acting like a hysterical woman. This is definitely NOT something that will help improve the situation.

@GarryB, With all due respect, I suggest removing tons of flame from this topic. And some of the major military theorists of Battlefield 2042 strongly demand a ban. It's just my opinion, but I had to finally express it.

Scorpius wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

No really, just an acknowledgement that both sides have to sit down and agree on something mutually beneficial. Such a Ukrainian state as I described will completely fit in with Russian interests.

For negotiations, you need someone to talk to. There is no one to talk to in Ukraine at the moment. There is no party that would control the situation and could ensure the implementation of any agreements. The inability to comply with the simplest Minsk agreements over the past eight years proves this. In fact, what Russia is doing now is precisely providing a chance for the creation of Ukrainian statehood, and not the shame that Ukraine has been since the collapse of the USSR.
And stop wailing already, you're acting like a hysterical woman. This is definitely NOT something that will help improve the situation.

@GarryB, With all due respect, I suggest removing tons of flame from this topic. And some of the major military theorists of Battlefield 2042 strongly demand a ban. It's just my opinion, but I had to finally express it.

Ukrainians will accept nothing but statehood, that stage has long since passed

What the Russians are doing are hammering out an agreement with the Ukraine's elites, through their negotiating party.

And this agreement will be held to.

Minsk was just an extension of an earlier attempt. At that stage, Russia looked too weak to enforce it, and some of the conditions were not acceptable to the Ukrainian elite, so they never implemented it.

Now the calculation has changed and with Russia, China, Iran and other countries all aligned and the West being boxed in, the Ukrainian elite will accept neutrality, in exchange for a lot of economic assistance and the eventual and conditional return of territory.

You can see China's position on the matter, to see the true picture - that it recognizes the territorial integrity of the Ukraine. The current war between Russia and the Ukraine is just a tug of war between each side to decide upon its future configuration.

The US wanted Zelensky to leave for Lvov so that he could head a government in Western Ukraine protected by official NATO forces, with Russia taking the rest of the Ukraine but without legitimacy and being set upon by an insurgency

Instead what will happen is that Zelensky, by staying in Kiev, will in effect become the guarantor of the agreement signed, and then Russian forces will withdraw and the peace process will take over. There won't be any insurgency.

lancelot wrote:Russia definitely has air superiority over Ukraine air space.
At best you might claim they don't have air supremacy, a different thing, but if they don't they are quite close to it.

The US bombed Serbia for like three months and they never managed to knock out their whole air defenses.
The Serbs had much more obsolete and much less equipment. Much less territory to hide in.
The US used way more aircraft than Russia is using in this campaign.
How are the Russians supposed to detect air defenses hidden inside buildings? Which only pop out to attack once an aircraft is around based on data fed from US airborne radar flying outside the Ukrainian border?

There is even more than that.
After the ceasefire, Yugo army withdraw from Kosovo almost entire army with heavy gear, proving that battle damage calculations provided by NATO were just a piece of crap.
Correct me if I am wrong with numbers, but was it 9 out of 12 MiG-29s that proved to be intact?
And we are talking about a campaign involving 68 days of indiscriminate bombardment made by some 400+ NATO planes, plus hundreds of cruise missiles (1000?)

Instead what will happen is that Zelensky, by staying in Kiev, will in effect become the guarantor of the agreement signed, and then Russian forces will withdraw and the peace process will take over. There won't be any insurgency. LIKEDISLIKE wrote:

This is how the Russian army will withdraw and then the Kiev authorities will invite NATO to Ukraine. Russia will not wighdraw soon from Ukraine.

It was already on table.
Drone on Zagreb was nothing else than a false flag.

Erk wrote:

andalusia wrote:I don't know if this has been brought up but UK official warns Russia about attacking NATO territory:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-face-war-worlds-foremost-213832424.html

Which means Ukraine are about to stage a false flag attack on NATO territory and blame the Russians.

That's not going to be bought by the Pentagon, who have a constant hotline with the Russian Defense Ministry, and in fact are constantly making statements that often contradict the belligerent State Department line.
Nor a false-flag chemical attack or whatever other shit. All of Kiev's dumb fakes and provocations get debunked by that general on Fox News right away.

No-one is going to drag NATO into a war with Russia.

flamming_python wrote:
No-one is going to drag NATO into a war with Russia.

You are most probably right, still, that is not an obstacle for trying, right ?
The comedy show played by Ukros is rising new levels each day.
Pitty that the comic hetman stopped calling US/NATO covards&impotents, that was both funny and worked the opposite I guess

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
No-one is going to drag NATO into a war with Russia.

You are most probably right, still, that is not an obstacle for trying, right ?
The comedy show played by Ukros is rising new levels each day.
Pitty that the comic hetman stopped calling US/NATO covards&impotents, that was both funny and worked the opposite I guess

Lately he's been calling for a US blockade on Russian trade and shipping routes

Which is an act of war, of course

Turbines of UK's ships often break down in Asian waters.

They use seawater for cooling and break down in the Med, which is probably colder than most Asian waters...

These are among the reasons I consider the Russians to be absolute stupids in this big, bad, open market world, not knowing how to negotiate deals. If it was we, I would have linked any sale of S-400 to first clearing the deals which have been put on hold due to murican and their cronies like Reliance industries pressure.

They wont bully you into choosing them over the US... India needs to make that choice for herself.

Unfortunately, not many in India, blinded by hatred, see this writing on the wall.

Tell them to look at Kiev and best buddy with the US... there are US citizens within that government pulling big money wages there... that could be Indias future except instead of Russia coming in to bitch slap you out of the American dream, it will be China...

And it was all so unnecessary and wasteful...

also I don't know any Video Game that has damage modelling of burning entry holes and "popping" engine compartment doors.

War thunder pops engine doors and hatches when the vehicles are destroyed in game...

Idk if this has been posted already but several sources claim that Russia has asked China to support them with military aid.

What aide could China possibly send that Russia would be short of?

Doubtful China will send more fuel to the fire.

EU countries are happy to throw fuel on the fire from the other direction... why would China refuse if asked?

If they were invading Taiwan would Russia refuse to help them?

ok but still I do not understand why Buks and Pantsirs did not take out all TB2 from the very first days, I have seen too many videos of TB2 hitting targets: these should have been downed right away.

If they were so easy to bring down no one would use them.

@Arkanghels Thanks for replying, nevertheless I think Russia could have been more effective in air combats (meaning shutting down drones but, more important, striking Ukr AD): I was really surprised to see Ka52 and even Su34 shut down. I agree overall numbers are pretty low for RuAF compared to the enemy, still...hurts

What actual day of the HATO operation in Kosovo were they able to say the AD was taken out? And I believe F-117s should be much harder to hit than low flying Su-34s and Ka-52s.

Biden is sending his NSA to Rome to meet with China's Yang Jiechi. Biden’s imperative to win Chinese cooperation on his sanctions against Russia has armed China with crucial leverage. Like a double-edged sword, it will wield that leverage to extract U.S. and Russian concessions.

Biden is thrashing around in the wind trying to look tough and capable and only having threats of sanctions to work with.

Also interesting that Russia S-300Vs are missing in action.

AFAIK the VDV nor the Naval Infantry use Army SAMs.

I do not comprehend the sympathy and help they get from so much of the rest of the world.

Just the west...

My guess is that they're preparing to actually carpet bomb any "kettles" formed, or any large retreating columns.

They can't. The only heavy bombers they have are the Backfires, the Blackjacks and Bears have no conventional or nuclear bomb capacity AFAIK... they are all cruise missile carriers only.

How is possible that the mighty russian military can't disable the artillery positions of the ukrainian
army after the military claiming air superiority ? what is going on here?

How is it that the mighty US Army lost so many men and vehicles to IEDs...

You do understand that artillery is mobile and hard to locate till it opens fire...

2)aren't the ukraine army positions fixed.. why can they just don't bomb their positions and wipe them?

They are mostly in urban areas of the Donbass with civilians around they don't want to slaughter trying to get the Orc troops out.

3) why russian army don't deploy 24 hours drones , either attack drones or cheap spy drones to hit the ukrainians when they come to the surface from their hiding places?

You are the one that thinks drones are magic... why aren't you writing to them and telling what silly billies they are being, because you are such an expert.

Obviously Putin.

4) can't the russian airforce just use incendiary bombs and burn to hell the entire cauldron where the
ukies hidding?

Yeah, burn down those buildings in the Donbass where the Orcs are occupying Donbass territory surrounded by civilians... burn them out...

if this is the way Russia army perform versus a mediocre third world nation..

Economically third world, militarily very much better than most first world countries, certainly in terms of air defence.

yet this idiots in the russian army c

Russian Army are idiots... why are they not as smart as you... you are so smart you obviously need a break... PD got 30 days for calling Russian soldiers following orders idiots with only two brain cells, so lets make you break double that... 60 days.

observe how azerbaijan without airforce just using drones managed to wipe the entire armor and air defenses of armenian soldiers fighting in nagorno.

The actual air defences of the NK forces were pathetic, and by and large the Armenian forces did not get involved.

if nato had to wipe the donetsk cauldron, they just send a dozen of b-52 bombers flying very high at night

B-52s can't operate above the 15km altitude ceiling of the BUK... they would be sitting ducks.

The Kalibr cruise missiles Russia has used in this conflict, have they all been fired from Black Sea ships & submarines or does Russia also operate land launch platforms for the Kalibr missiles?

Probably not yet, they are a naval and strategic air force weapon. Using land based launchers would violate the INF treaty, though now it is gone so they could build land based launchers if they wanted... a rail version would be useful.

BS. China simply isn't going to back off on its support of Russia.

Ignore that they have a strategic partnership and boil it down to the absolute basics - When its Chinas turn to get stuck in (and take down the secessionists in Taiwan) they want Russia in their corner.

Murkan deep staters are idiots if they can't understand this, but they are desperate to save their pet Ukro regime and the stress is making them sloppy and causing forced errors.

Remember the Americans are dumb... they were expecting Russia to help them with sanctions against Iran and China.... at a time when they had Russia under sanctions too...

Delusional.

Russia is supporting the wrong side in Syria.

The "other side" is riff raff and couldn't run a country even if they wanted to... Syria would become just like Libya, which is what the US wants so it can lay gas pipes from their ME allies through Iraq and Syria to Turkey in competition with Russian Gas to europe... that was the entire purpose... why those people are suffering...

to sell gas and stop Russia selling gas to the EU.

Yes, but the propaganda in western media is unprecedented.
Honestly, it is hard to blame if someone believes it. This is not the normal level we are all used to. I'm not talking about US media only - where it's a norm - but every western county basically, even the moderates.

It is not hard to blame them here if they ignore the real facts they are presented with and show obviously faked pictures and videos and hold them as being real.

Today the "request for urgent help from China" was the mainline.
Story is also emerging that Russia is backing off from initial demands and "no more requests removal of Kievan junta".

Mr. Kadyrov seems to disagree though, from his TG

The longer they want to drag this out the worse their terms will be... you want to keep killing Russian soldiers then there will be consequences for that too.

lband radars can't be used to provide fire solution to missiles ,is only to have a more or less idea of where the enemy plane could be . it means that still will need to wait until the plane is very close to lock in the target..

For active radar homing missiles I band radar detection is plenty good enough to get them close enough for their own radars to find and lock the target.

if it have problems in ukraine , it will be much more harder in a nato country , next to impossible for russia military to fight a major nato power or israel.

No HATO country... including the US has more than a token air defence network of their own... as shown by a Tu-141 drone flying through HATO airspace and not being detected at all...

If it had been a Calibre it could have done some real damage.

Gonna have a prune and shift around... might take a bit, but a lot of posts might just disappear... not worth saving/moving.