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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB

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Post n°351

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:14 pm

I don't get why there is not a stronger response from Russia on this. Basically a law stating that any attempt to detain the head of state of Russia is a decleration of war. And will result in full use of the Russian military against any nation or institution seeking to detain him without specific permission of the Duma.

Putin has no reason to visit any country that would implement such a warrant.

We can see how it has effected the ICC when they had to indict Netenyahoo and when they did the US attacked them... the head of the ICC himself admitted in an interview that the ICC is a tool of the west to punish Africa and the enemies of the west. He can point to indicting Netenyahoo as proof that it isn't but threats of western sanctions and western political reaction just prove that it is.

How goes the situation in Kharkov and Sumy directions?

Seems to me the west is looking at Putins offer rather more carefully, but they already rejected it.

On the duran they talked about the west privately saying to Russia that next elections in November will give them new leaders and new groups of people who can be more flexible, but that means the west continues to fund Kiev so the deal that will be put forward is going to be worse than the deal just rejected and I think they might work that out for themselves or maybe they will hope he might go back to the istanbul agreement.

With Trump in office he probably thinks he can cobble together the deal of the century that Putin wont be able to refuse.

Or maybe when the Democrats cheat and get Biden back in for another term a civil war might erupt and they get distracted for a bit...

Civil wars are horrible things and i don't wish them on anyone... but conditions in Ukraine and some places in the west could probably benefit from such a shakeup.

Some of those trillionaire families in the west can start paying real tax and help the people and the country through a difficult time... or off with their heads... they can choose. Democracy.

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LMFS

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Post n°352

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

LMFS Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:17 pm

Arrow wrote:The US allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia

The American military allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia, and this is not only about the group in the Kharkov region. Politico writes about this, citing sources among American officials.

The United States is under pressure from Ukrainian and European officials. Politico sources said that allowing Kyiv to launch strikes on Russian territory in response to fire on any targets is a shift in US policy.

The West no longer has cards to play.

The US is allowing 404 to do what they have already been doing from the beginning, with Western weapons, targeting and planing, how interesting Sleep

More interesting is when Russia does the same, turning any non-state actor in a force capable of sinking USN ships and destroying US bases, making the life of US military miserable anywhere on the planet. And that is just for starters, before nukes enter the game... have to wonder where these retards have learned how escalation works, you have to make sure your enemy does not have your balls in a jack before you start threatening, you clowns...

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GarryB

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Post n°353

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:19 pm

The US allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia

Such a policy will make Putins next offer rather worse I suspect.

The US allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia

Honestly... how can they tell where they were made?

Did they let tracker dogs sniff them and put them on long leads and follow them to Irans border?

Iran is under western sanctions but is a sovereign country and can sell its weapons to anyone it pleases, but I suspect the Russians might be licence producing them for themselves using domestic components.

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GarryB

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Post n°354

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:21 pm

More interesting is when Russia does the same, turning any non-state actor in a force capable of sinking USN ships and destroying US bases, making the life of US military miserable anywhere on the planet. And that is just for starters, before nukes enter the game... have to wonder where these retards have learned how escalation works, you have to make sure your enemy does not have your balls in a jack before you start threatening, you clowns...

Yeah, the stupidity of playing a game of chicken against a country that has MANPADS and ATGMs and sniper rifles that reach over 3km... what could any terrorist group do with those I wonder.

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ALAMO

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Post n°355

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

ALAMO Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:26 pm

JohninMK wrote:
Assume this is the same one. Either they are just missing the main building or they are intentionally missing, going for the group of buildings. This is the second time this has happened so some are saying they are on a learning curve with its ballistics,

I would say it hit with acceptable accuracy, and my guess is it is the altitude to blame here - which can be just a routine GPS error.
If it would have flown a few m lower, it would have hit perfectly in the middle of the building wall.

To make this thing fly is already a challenge Laughing

This sort of ordnance's deadly radius is about 100m, with heavy fragments killing even 400m away.

Just take a look at the first reveled vid :

Note the destroyed buildings on the left.

Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58 - Page 15 Zrzut_20

Now watch the result.

Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58 - Page 15 Zrzut_19

It clearly made a serious damage to the building debris at least 200m away from the impact point.

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LMFS

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Post n°356

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

LMFS Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:03 pm

GarryB wrote:Yeah, the stupidity of playing a game of chicken against a country that has MANPADS and ATGMs and sniper rifles that reach over 3km... what could any terrorist group do with those I wonder.

True, though they have always had this possibility. The radical change is that Russia from now on does not need to hide behind "plausible deniability" for low profile sabotage of Western interests, but can openly deliver high end weapons like say Onyx or Iskanders (probably they would not even need to go that far) to say Houthis, Hezbollah, Iraqi Resistance, among many possibilities, and of course any allied state (Putin did not lose time and immediately set off to North Korea and Vietnam), which can easily result in US being directly expelled from entire regions and therefore seeing their enforcement of financial coercion collapse just when BRICS are surging, which would in turn break the Dollar. I am not sure that I have seen a more stupid geopolitical move in my life, to be honest

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flamming_python

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Post n°357

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

flamming_python Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:19 pm

Arrow wrote:The US allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia

The American military allowed Ukraine to attack troops inside Russia, and this is not only about the group in the Kharkov region. Politico writes about this, citing sources among American officials.

The United States is under pressure from Ukrainian and European officials. Politico sources said that allowing Kyiv to launch strikes on Russian territory in response to fire on any targets is a shift in US policy.

The West no longer has cards to play.

Yup, that was quick, quicker than I thought

They dipped their toe in the water with attacks across the border from the Kharkov region, found that Russia didn't do shit, and now Russia is going to get rocket attacks across it's European territory for its troubles

Although it's not that Russia is not doing shit. It's preparing for war. But it's failing to arrest it or deter it, and that's the real problem.

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lancelot

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Post n°358

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

lancelot Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:34 pm

flamming_python wrote:Although it's not that Russia is not doing shit. It's preparing for war. But it's failing to arrest it or deter it, and that's the real problem.

I would say the military drills on using tactical nuclear weapons were meant to act both as a deterrent and to prepare for future direct conflict with NATO. But these people in charge of NATO countries are just plain idiots who will likely get us into WWIII.

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kvs

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Post n°359

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

kvs Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:05 pm

The apparent deciders in NATzO are obvious stooges. But the shadow elites behind them have clearly entered the inbred retard stage.

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lyle6

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Post n°360

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

lyle6 Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:15 pm

flamming_python wrote:
Yup, that was quick, quicker than I thought

They dipped their toe in the water with attacks across the border from the Kharkov region, found that Russia didn't do shit, and now Russia is going to get rocket attacks across it's European territory for its troubles

Although it's not that Russia is not doing shit. It's preparing for war. But it's failing to arrest it or deter it, and that's the real problem.

>FPV drones have made assassinations/sabotage retard cheap
>All your enemies have open borders
I'm just saying.

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GarryB

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Post n°361

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:20 pm

Although it's not that Russia is not doing shit. It's preparing for war. But it's failing to arrest it or deter it, and that's the real problem.

Putin has made it clear that such a thing will get a response. They have made official what has been happening all along.

We shall see the results.

Their knee jerk response to Putins offer was immediate dismissal... when the next target deep inside Russia gets hit lets see what Putin does and how the next olive branch looks... I suspect they will look back at the current olive branch and wish they could be offered that again...

But then the example of the Fins should have been learned better.

The west focuses on how the Fins outmanouvered and outgunned the Soviet conscript force in forests with SMGs vs bolt action rifles... what they ignored was the deal Stalin offered before the Soviet attack and the deal when Finland surrendered.

Spoiler alert, the deal changed dramatically between the two deals and not in a way that pleased the Fins.

Biden is too invested and will never accept peace talks while in office and Zelensky is in no position to negotiate either... I doubt Putin would trust either of them anyway...

Edit: Very good point Lyle... I am sure Putin would never authorise such actions but he is just supplying the equipment and systems and providing C4ISTAR support, it is not up to him who the people who receive this stuff do with it... Twisted Evil

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Arkanghelsk

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Post n°362

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Arkanghelsk Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:24 pm

Giving LNA and Haftar some long range drones to hit Sicily and Monaco would be good

In revenge for NATO attacking Tripoli and destroying the country

To me this is the most immediate actor in range of Europe to do damage

And if you check, VMF stopped in Tobruk and the fighting in Libya is ramping up again

Such perfect timing Cool

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ucmvulcan

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Post n°363

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

ucmvulcan Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:08 pm

Arkanghelsk wrote:Giving LNA and Haftar some long range drones to hit Sicily and Monaco would be good

In revenge for NATO attacking Tripoli and destroying the country

To me this is the most immediate actor in range of Europe to do damage

And if you check, VMF stopped in Tobruk and the fighting in Libya is ramping up again

Such perfect timing

Anything in the Russian arsenal with range to hit Paris, Berlin, Bonn, or Brussels from northern Libya or Tunisia? Puts Stolenberg and Josep Borrell having a media circle jerk interrupted with a huge explosion to NATO headquarters or the EU parliament building would be beautiful. Borrell, Europe is a garden and so we must go into Afri KABOOOOM!!!!

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lancelot

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Post n°364

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

lancelot Sun Jun 23, 2024 1:39 am

ucmvulcan wrote:Anything in the Russian arsenal with range to hit Paris, Berlin, Bonn, or Brussels from northern Libya or Tunisia?

The Kalibr fired from a container could do it. The Geran-2 drones also have enough range.

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Sujoy

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Post n°365

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Sujoy Sun Jun 23, 2024 12:01 pm

calripson wrote:The use of drones has significantly degraded the effectiveness of armor and artillery close to the line of contact. Warfare has returned to an attritional art where numbers matter. Distributed infantry - light infantry moving fast on dirt bikes or quads with mobile high-tech weapons and ability to target the enemy with standoff weapons is now the name of the game. In other words, demographics and the political ability to sustain losses, matter like they always have. If Russia had the population of China, this war would already be over.

This means, in the future, combat involving drones will predominantly occur between drones rather than human soldiers. Consequently, demographic factors will not be significantly influential in determining the outcome of a war

GarryB

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Post n°366

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sun Jun 23, 2024 1:57 pm

I would say it hit with acceptable accuracy, and my guess is it is the altitude to blame here - which can be just a routine GPS error.
If it would have flown a few m lower, it would have hit perfectly in the middle of the building wall.

It is a new toy and they only just put the FAB-3000 back into production... maybe that is why they put drones up to watch the impact carefully... this is part of the testing process and they will likely be monitoring its results to improve the guidance and flight control systems.

You don't need 1m accuracy for a 3 ton bomb because the target is not going to be an individual person standing in the street, it is more likely to be a concrete building or a large warehouse with lots of things inside that wont combust like fuel or ammo would.

You would use a 3 ton bomb on a HQ bunker below ground, or a factory making or repairing tanks or armoured vehicles... the power damaging the repair equipment, killing skilled workers, and destroying or damaging as many of the vehicles as you can manage.

A smaller bomb might only damage a couple of vehicles, but a really big bomb destroys tools and machinery and damages a lot of vehicles all in one hit.

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GarryB

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Post n°367

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:01 pm

This means, in the future, combat involving drones will predominantly occur between drones rather than human soldiers. Consequently, demographic factors will not be significantly influential in determining the outcome of a war

Any country could design an enormous fleet of drones that kill people that can be controlled by an AI system to target a specific group of people with the accuracy to snipe them from distances where they wont even know what hit them.

Countermeasures will of course be developed including EMP devices and hacking systems to all a country to take over control of the attack drones of an enemy state and use a countries drones against its own population.

We wont know who burned the skies but when we all end up as bio batteries then we can blame the mantra of escalation and pride...

Maybe the Matrix movies are propaganda and it is not man against machines, it is the jews in Zion against the sensible people of the rest of the world... but is Putin Neo or Agent Smith?

Or is he both?

Last edited by GarryB on Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Mir

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Post n°368

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Mir Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:02 pm

With that amount of TNT the shock wave will instantly kill a human by rupturing all internal organs - not to mention the shrapnel.

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GarryB

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Post n°369

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

GarryB Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:05 pm

Yes, very much so... the power of such a large bomb is hard to understand.

A car crash on a highway with two cars each moving at 100km/h hitting head on with no airbags and no seat belts would normally be fatal to all parties... the shockwave from this bomb is not moving at 200km/h.... it is moving much much faster.

It would be what you found at the bottom of a 30 storey building of a person that jumped...

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JohninMK

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Post n°370

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

JohninMK Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:24 pm

Likely to be NATO staff at a training center.

The Russian Armed Forces this morning hit a training centre for flight and technical personnel of the Ukrainian Air Force, all facilities were hit, the Ministry of Defence said.

The main thing from the briefing of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation:

The AFU lost up to 500 military personnel in the area of responsibility of the Western Group of the Russian Armed Forces and a US AN/TPQ-50 antiaircraft radar;

Units of the Eastern Group of the Russian Armed Forces took more favourable positions, the AFU lost up to 135 men, one SAU, one Strela-10 SAM combat vehicle and one AN/TPQ-5 counter-battery radar station;

Six counter-attacks by assault groups of the 142nd Infantry Brigade, the 24th and 47th Mechanised Brigades, the 12th AFU Rifle Battalion and the 107th AFU Brigade were repulsed during the day.

The Russian Armed Forces launched a group attack with sea-launched precision-guided weapons on a Ukrainian Air Force flight training base;

Units of the Northern Group of the Russian Armed Forces defeated AFU personnel and equipment, the enemy lost up to 210 men, APCs, howitzers, SAU and an electronic warfare station;

Russian air defence forces shot down 75 Ukrainian UAVs, 33 shells of HIMARS, Vampire and Olkha MLRS;

AFU losses in the area of responsibility of the Southern Grouping of the Russian Armed Forces totalled up to 570 military personnel, one tank and 4 field ammunition depots, according to the Russian Defence Ministry.

http://t.me/ukraine_watch

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JohninMK

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Post n°371

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

JohninMK Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:28 pm

I thought that the restrictions had been lifted but maybe not.

The US has tied the hands of the Kiev regime: the Ukrainian authorities are trying to get the ban on using ATACMS missiles for strikes against Russia lifted.

Earlier, the Pentagon gave Ukraine instructions on what strikes could be carried out on Russian territory. But the AFU is demanding that restrictions on long-range missiles be lifted, the Associated Press reported.

According to the publication, Ukrainian militants complain that without ATACMS missiles their hands are tied.

http://t.me/ukraine_watch

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flamming_python

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Post n°372

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

flamming_python Sun Jun 23, 2024 3:08 pm

The concern I have with the FAB-3000 is that as we found even with Bakhmut and other such intense and long-term urban battles, a considerable amount of civilians end up hiding out in their basements instead of leaving. We can see that bomb hitting next to the building but there are a whole bunch of houses around it too within a few dozen meters. I don't know how far the shockwave's kill radius will be but I very much hope that such munitions are used judiciously and only when anything smaller can't get the job done.

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°373

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Big_Gazza Sun Jun 23, 2024 3:39 pm

JohninMK wrote:I thought that the restrictions had been lifted but maybe not.

The US has tied the hands of the Kiev regime: the Ukrainian authorities are trying to get the ban on using ATACMS missiles for strikes against Russia lifted.

Earlier, the Pentagon gave Ukraine instructions on what strikes could be carried out on Russian territory. But the AFU is demanding that restrictions on long-range missiles be lifted, the Associated Press reported.

According to the publication, Ukrainian militants complain that without ATACMS missiles their hands are tied.

http://t.me/ukraine_watch

Apparently the restictions have been lifted for striking at Russian forces mobilising within pre-2022 borders and intended for use in Kharkov or other war fronts. its claimed that the restrictions are still in place for deep penetrative strikes into the Russian rear.

Not that it makes much difference. Russian IADS is best on planet, ATACMS are not especially potent, and they're nowhere near capable enough to make any significant difference.

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°374

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

Big_Gazza Sun Jun 23, 2024 3:44 pm

GarryB wrote:Maybe the Matrix movies are propaganda and it is not man against machines, it is the jews in Zion against the sensible people of the rest of the world... but is Putin Neo or Agent Smith?

When watching the Matrix movies I prefer to "mishear" the name of the city as "Psion". Otherwise I find myself cheering on the machines... Razz

[/quote]

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franco

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Post n°375

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #58

franco Sun Jun 23, 2024 4:19 pm

Big_Gazza wrote:

JohninMK wrote:I thought that the restrictions had been lifted but maybe not.

The US has tied the hands of the Kiev regime: the Ukrainian authorities are trying to get the ban on using ATACMS missiles for strikes against Russia lifted.

Earlier, the Pentagon gave Ukraine instructions on what strikes could be carried out on Russian territory. But the AFU is demanding that restrictions on long-range missiles be lifted, the Associated Press reported.

According to the publication, Ukrainian militants complain that without ATACMS missiles their hands are tied.

http://t.me/ukraine_watch

Apparently the restictions have been lifted for striking at Russian forces mobilising within pre-2022 borders and intended for use in Kharkov or other war fronts. its claimed that the restrictions are still in place for deep penetrative strikes into the Russian rear.

Not that it makes much difference. Russian IADS is best on planet, ATACMS are not especially potent, and they're nowhere near capable enough to make any significant difference.

Apparently 100 kilometers inside pre-2022 borders.

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